Radical groups taking control of immigrant movemen

[Jimmie Higgins]

I just got back from a massive demonstration for immigrant rights! I'm very tired, but I'll just say that Dobbs is fearmongering here, but I think his redbaiting is a reflection of the radical potential of this brand new movement of workers from below.


Originally posted by Lou Dobbs
Radical groups taking control of immigrant movement
By Lou Dobbs
CNN

Monday, May 1, 2006; Posted: 6:30 p.m. EDT (22:30 GMT)

Manage Alerts | What Is This?
NEW YORK (CNN) --
...
But only one newspaper, to its credit, reported that
illegal aliens and their supporters' boycott of the
national economy on the First of May is clear evidence
that radical elements have seized control of the movement.
The Washington Post, alone among national papers, reported
that ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) has
become an active promoter of the national boycott.

Some illegal immigration and open borders activists in the
Hispanic community are deeply concerned about the
involvement of the left-wing radical group. But others,
like Juan Jose Gutierrez, whom I've interviewed a number
of times over the past several months, manages to be both
director of Latino Movement USA and a representative of
ANSWER.

As Gutierrez told us on my show, "The time has
come...where we need to stand up and make a statement. We
need to do what the American people did when they pulled
away from the British crown. And I am sure that back in
those days many people were concerned that was radical
action."

Just how significant is the impact of leftists within the
illegal immigration movement? It is no accident that they
chose May 1 as their day of demonstration and boycott. It
is the worldwide day of commemorative demonstrations by
various socialist, communist, and even anarchic
organizations.

Supporters of the boycott have made no secret of their
determination to try to shut down schools, businesses and
entire cities. Much of Los Angeles' Seventh Street produce
market, which supplies thousands of local restaurants and
markets, is closed today. Many meat-packing companies like
Cargill and Tyson are also closing many of their plants.

"The meat packers are confirming what we know," says
University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici,
"and that is that this large group of illegal aliens in
the United States is lowering the wage rate of semiskilled
workers, people who are high school dropouts or high
school graduates with minimal training."

In fact, a meat-packing job paid $19 an hour in 1980, but
today that same job pays closer to $9 an hour, according
to the Labor Department. That's entirely consistent with
what we've been reporting -- that illegal aliens depress
wages for U.S. workers by as much as $200 billion a year
in addition to placing a tremendous burden on hospitals,
schools and other social services.

Radicalism is not confined to Gutierrez and Latino
Movement USA. Ernesto Nevarez of the L.A. Port Collective
is promising to shut down the Port of Los Angeles today:
"[Transportation and commerce] will come to a grinding
halt. ...They are going to put a wall along the border
with Mexico. We're going to put a wall between us and the
ocean. And those containers ain't going to move."

No matter which flag demonstrators and protesters carry
today, their leadership is showing its true colors to all
who will see.

[MurderInc]

I disagree with the quote above re: shutting down the port if a wall is built. Yes, radical elements had some success in equting any type of immigration as being legitimate, but that's a far cry from Congress abdicating its authority in determining who enters the U.S. and how.

That's the one piece that I do not believe will succeed this round: the notion that individuals living outside the U.S. will be able to determine for themselves U.S. immigration policy. That one will blow up in the face of the Rev Left.

If Congress authorized a wall to ensure the entry into the U.S. at only specific locations, people in the U.S. would not shut down the ports of Los Angeles and San Diego. How would they explain their motives?

Currently, the argument that all workers in the U.S. make the country work is having success. But an argument that says, "Everyone in the world has a right to enter America, contra to Congress" isn't going to have any success except with far lefties, and the movement itself would be jepardized.

[YSR]

Originally posted by Dumbshit economist
"The meat packers are confirming what we know," says University of Maryland economics professor Peter Morici, "and that is that this large group of illegal aliens in
the United States is lowering the wage rate of semiskilled
workers, people who are high school dropouts or high
school graduates with minimal training."

See, this doesn't make any sense. This "professor" is an idiot. Clearly, as the situation stands, illegal aliens are "lowering the wage rate of semiskilled workers". But that's why people are HAVING these rallies. With amnesty, ex-illegal immigrants will make the wage labor pool more fair and even. I'm not very skilled in capitalist economics and even I get it.

Also, kudos to Dobbs for mentioning the "anarchic" groups. Booyah.

[Brownfist]

Unfortunately, in the context of Lou Dobb's all this amounts to is red-baiting. He basically wants to dismiss the immigration movement as a leftist movement which should be ignored by god-fearing americans. Thus, rather than seeing this as an affirmation of the desire of illegal immigrants to remain in continental north america as workers with status, this becomes another reason why immigrants should be kicked out, "They spread evil communist/anarchist ideas".

[Entrails Konfetti]

May Day isn't necessarily a leftist event, its about the working-class.

The immigrants were waving American Flags to show they weren't an intentional threat to the US.

Contrary to what Dobbs states, the mass mobilization just can't be ignored.

[LoneRed]

ya and in chicago what i saw there, the american flags, and conservative sayings to gain acceptance waay outnumbered the radical/communist perspective.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Dobbs is clearly red-baiting here to dismiss the movement. He rails against the "illegal alien lobby" (what kink of BS is that? Yeah, undocumented workers are lobbying congressmen with all that moeny they make) and is the only US pundit since the 1980s that always refers to China as "Communist China".

But I think his paranoid rant reveals some of the fear that this movement is causing in places of power. A worker's movement... it's the modern spectre haunting the right-wing.

[Tekun]

Therez no doubt that neocons are attempting to equate the immigrant movement with radical/communist movements
When in fact, the majority of immigrants sadly have no desire or interest in radical ideas, all they're trying to do is adapt and be treated like Americans
Red baiting mos definitely

Instead of blaming immigrants for such low wages, they should be blaming American capitalism which in it of itself is responsible for lowering wages to such pathetic levels
The ignorance of most Americans gives neocons/bigots the opportunity to influence the country into believing that those who actually lower wages are immigrants, when in fact its the employers' desire to minimize costs and maximize profits which lowers wages
Thus creating a xenophobic atmosphere


During the march I was taken aback by the desire of the ppl to become Americans, rather than their will to fight for the human rights that they were being denied
Didn't like all the American flags either

[Jimmie Higgins]

Seriously, what do people expect? It seems like people on this website expect workers to suddenly develop class and radical consiousness overnight?

Mass consiousness dosn't go from noting to bus boycott to black power in a week or a month! It's a process of a movement coming through a series of different ups and downs and confronting questions of how to bring the movement further.

THe blcak civil rights movement started out with liberal and church apeals to the presidents and the US governemnts and began to win some reforms, but these reforms didn't adress problems felt by urban blacks in the north (so the question became less about good liberal capitalism vs. jim-crow capitalism) and so the economic componant of the racism experienced by blacks became more of a central issue.

As radicals, our job should be engaging the movement and being supportive of the movements sucsesses, but also being relentless in pressing the movement to think of the next step. Sensenbrenner has been defeated by a mass movement and this is the best thing workers have been able to do in the US at least since 9/11 and possibly in decades. Now we need to be arguing that conditional "amnesty" will not stop the attacks on immigrants, will continue second-class citizenship for immigrants and that full amnesty with eqaul rights is the demand that our movement should be making... not voting for democrats or supporting a new bracero program.

Yeah the flags are lame, but it is a mile wide and a millameter thick... in the first protests it was not american flags... this is clearly an appeal for acceptance by the mainstream, not an expression of US nationalism. As the movement learns that flag or no, the bigots and politicians are still going to be opposed to them, it will most likly disappear.

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by EL [email protected] 4 2006, 05:49 AM
May Day isn't necessarily a leftist event, its about the working-class.

The immigrants were waving American Flags to show they weren't an intentional threat to the US.

Contrary to what Dobbs states, the mass mobilization just can't be ignored.
Exactly, the article is complete bullshit only trying to manipulate the reader, it's obviesly trying to discredit the immigrant movement (not that I would have a problems if radical groups), and make the "average Anerican liberal" stop supporting the movement.

There is nothing radical about may day, actually may day was made an official holiday by the Nazis in Germany, and it still is an official holiday here and in several other Euorpean countries.

[bcbm]

The Washington Post, alone among national papers, reported
that ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) has
become an active promoter of the national boycott.

Come on guys, they'd better watch out. I think we can all vouch for how radical ANSWER made the anti-war movement...


:rolleyes:

[The Beat]

Hello, all.

Nearly every article in the US media that discusses the recent rallies tries to paint a leftist political spin on the whole affair. The truth of the matter is, this had nothing to do with politics. This movement has everything to do with justice and the rights of human beings to live without fear and with decent living conditions. Those who risk their lives to come to this country should be applauded for their nerve and valor, not condemned. They seek better living conditions for themselves and their families, nothing more.

What we REALLY need to do is help Latin America build a better community in their country. Then people won't feel the need to come here in the first place. Of course, if we do that, the price of a head of lettuce will skyrocket to $8 each, tomatoes would rise to $15/pound, babysitting and housemaids will soar to $15/hour AND THEY WOULD DEMAND HEALTH AND DENTAL BENEFITS. The neocons have created a false problem that they themselves created trying to steer the sheeple in a given direction. They feel the heat as is demonstrated in the recent polls, and they want any issue they can find to divert the mind of the sheeple from their wrongdoings.

Of course, that ain't hard to do. After all, they are sheeple.

As far as A.N.S.W.E.R. is concerned, they were fantastic. They helped organize LA and they did a beautiful job, both on March 25 and May 1. But they were the organizers. The people that showed up were NOT members of their group, they were ordinary persons from all walks of life.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 4 2006, 10:53 PM
What we REALLY need to do is help Latin America build a better community in their country. Then people won't feel the need to come here in the first place. Of course, if we do that, the price of a head of lettuce will skyrocket to $8 each, tomatoes would rise to $15/pound, babysitting and housemaids will soar to $15/hour AND THEY WOULD DEMAND HEALTH AND DENTAL BENEFITS. The neocons have created a false problem that they themselves created trying to steer the sheeple in a given direction. They feel the heat as is demonstrated in the recent polls, and they want any issue they can find to divert the mind of the sheeple from their wrongdoings.

Welcome the beat,

I agree that the reason people are coming to the US in the first place is because of the economic situation in other countries; this (along with political repression and strife) has always been the case.

However, I think Consumer prices and worker wages are not connected by some magical ratio where paying workers non-slave wages will make tomatoes $8. Companies like monsanto have more than enough money that could be going to workers rather than to paying off government officials, hireing corporate lawyers so that the company can make sure laws are written in their favor and so on. Wages in the US have stagnated while corporate profits and consumer prices have gone up; by your formulation, gas station attendants have doubled their wages since the price of gas is double what it was a few years ago.

What we REALLY need to do in the US right now in the short term is build a movement to get equal rights and protections for all who work in the US; then workers can get together and make demands on thoes corporations for health care and decent wages.

I find "sheeple" offensive; when have you ever heard of sheep organizing protests like you saw on Monday? When have sheep ever gotten together and overthrown Kings and Tzars?

[RevMARKSman]

Well at least something is happening...We need to get going!
And apparently everything has a "leftist bias" now (a la Stephen Colbert)...Maybe that has something to do with right wing propaganda, or maybe the people are getting smarter...
Either way, get up off your @$$ and move! Go to a protest, pass out flyers, do something!

[The Beat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 07:56 AM
Welcome the beat,

I agree that the reason people are coming to the US in the first place is because of the economic situation in other countries; this (along with political repression and strife) has always been the case.

However, I think Consumer prices and worker wages are not connected by some magical ratio where paying workers non-slave wages will make tomatoes $8. Companies like monsanto have more than enough money that could be going to workers rather than to paying off government officials, hireing corporate lawyers so that the company can make sure laws are written in their favor and so on. Wages in the US have stagnated while corporate profits and consumer prices have gone up; by your formulation, gas station attendants have doubled their wages since the price of gas is double what it was a few years ago.

What we REALLY need to do in the US right now in the short term is build a movement to get equal rights and protections for all who work in the US; then workers can get together and make demands on thoes corporations for health care and decent wages.

I find "sheeple" offensive; when have you ever heard of sheep organizing protests like you saw on Monday? When have sheep ever gotten together and overthrown Kings and Tzars?
Actually,

There is a direct correlation. You are right that we need to protest now for better rights for ALL workers in America, and provide amnesty to those who are here illegally. That, in and of itself, will cause the price of produce and other goods and services to rise as employers find themselves in the obligation of providing adequate health and dental care to these people, as well as proper wages.

Unfortunately, big business will ALWAYS have funds to pay off government officials. There is a two-fold reason for this: they need to have legislation going their way, AND, they need to win lawsuits against them. No better way to do that then having your "friends" in high places pass laws that benefit your industry, and promote judges who are sympathetic with your cause. Welcome to Capitalism 101.

The use of the word "sheeple" refers to the masses who sit there night after night and watch "Reality TV" or some other absurd program that is designed to soothe their tired brain and slowly put them to sleep. These people are the first to condemn any sort of activity that would upset the apple cart. These people are the ones who remember with ease all the flashy phrases that the Bush admin have given them to condemn others, without even realizing what they are saying. They are human zombies, supposedly "living the American dream."

MonicaTTmed

I offer my services, limited though they may be. I was at the peace rally against the war in April here in Los Angeles. I went to a Bolivarian rally also held in Los Angeles, and I was an interpreter for the delegation from Venezuela. I speak three languages fluently, and write four newsletters quarterly. I also work 12 hour days, and have a limited amount of free time. But I am a believer in the cause having been a protester in the 60s and 70s. If there is some way I can help let me know. I will support any cause that promotes PEACE and JUSTICE for all.

[RevMARKSman]

Actually that was a bit hypocritical of me as I'm too young to do anything but post flyers on my locker... :unsure:

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 10:17 AM
Actually that was a bit hypocritical of me as I'm too young to do anything but post flyers on my locker... :unsure:
Supposedly many of the student walk-outs in LA were organized and publicized through Myspace... I think your instinct to get up and do something is what a lot of kids are feeling and doing. There's nothing wrong with being young and entusiastic and even making some mistakes. If you can post fliers on your locker, you can post fliers in the halls or some other location and set up a meeting of other people who want to do something about immigration!

[chuq]

Monica--don't take any shit--ou are young and involved that is more than most of your generation can say.

If you are a revolutionary person--there are no borders, no legal or illegal, we are all workers and that alone is where the loyalty lies. For those who listen and give time to Dobbs--I have some land in Florida I want to sell you---by the gallon.

[Janus]

May Day isn't necessarily a leftist event, its about the working-class.

The immigrants were waving American Flags to show they weren't an intentional threat to the US.

Contrary to what Dobbs states, the mass mobilization just can't be ignored.
Well said, EL KABLAMO. I agree that this Lou Dobbs statement is just a load of crap and simply trying to "scare" everyday Americans into not supporting the immigrant movement.

[Guerrilla22]

Yeah, fuck Lou Dobbs. The immigration movement needs our support, the counter movement has gotten plenty of support from the mass media, the minutemen and other white supremacist groups.