The Real Working Class and the Ivory tower

[MKS]

I have been active in Leftist movements since I left college 3 years ago. The reason I was drawn to the ideology of the Left (Libertarian Socialism mostly) was the result of my reaction to the conditions and treatments of the American Working Class, the idea that if it is this bad here, in terms of health care, job security, and general workers rights, than it must be horrifically worse in the "third world". However after spending some time with various parties (Communist, Socialist) I soon realized that most of the people that were active in the movement were people who never held a real job in their life. Most were what I call Ivory Tower Liberals", or armchair leftists, white intellectuals who took up the cause for what seemed to me as an easement of their guilt. I asked myself how invested in the struggle could they be? My future, my children’s future depends on the progression of the Movement. If they get bored or scared or if the movement collapses they have nothing to loose.

I think in order for any substantial change or revolution to be made we must first separate ourselves from such people. The ivory tower must collapse before we can progress. The Movement must first remove the cancer from its own body if it is to be healthy enough to withstand the imperial machine.

[YSR]

I kind of agree. Sort of.

But I think that any movement needs its intellectuals. I mean, Marx may have been poor, but he was definitely an intellectual. There's nothing wrong with intellectuals, so long as they don't overthink situations which don't require it.

I agree that more work has to be done in changing the style of revolutionary socialist propaganda from aiming at young white liberals and aim it more at a general audience of the working class.

As a white comrade in America, I try not to take things like what you just said personally, but it is hard. I acknowledge that white privelege gives me opportunities that others can't have. One thing though that gets on my nerves is when comrades attempt to diminish the importance of white comrades. EVERY comrade is important, regardless of race. Remember that just because we happen to be white, male, whatever, we are just as aligned with the movement as anyone else. That doesn't automatically make us part of the "intellectual establishment". We're fighting the same enemy.

(MKS, maybe you didn't mean what I interpretted your comments to mean, so I apologize if I'm ranting without being asked to.)

[Severian]

This condemnation of Ivory Tower Liberalism kinda contradicts your call, in another thread, for a return to patriotic American liberalism!

The strong tendency on the left to become, openly or otherwise, patriotic American liberals....comes precisely from the kind of middle-class membership and leadership you're bemoaning here.


The reason I was drawn to the ideology of the Left (Libertarian Socialism mostly) was the result of my reaction to the conditions and treatments of the American Working Class, the idea that if it is this bad here, in terms of health care, job security, and general workers rights, than it must be horrifically worse in the "third world".

So...pity at the plight of the poor oppressed workers? But then you say:


Most were what I call Ivory Tower Liberals", or armchair leftists, white intellectuals who took up the cause for what seemed to me as an easement of their guilt.

But from what I quoted earlier, it would seem that applies to you too.

A communist approach, in contrast, emphasizes workers' fightback, more than workers' suffering. For communists, workers are the makers of history, the transformers of the world, not victims.

[Fistful of Steel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 01:38 AM
I have been active in Leftist movements since I left college 3 years ago. The reason I was drawn to the ideology of the Left (Libertarian Socialism mostly) was the result of my reaction to the conditions and treatments of the American Working Class, the idea that if it is this bad here, in terms of health care, job security, and general workers rights, than it must be horrifically worse in the "third world". However after spending some time with various parties (Communist, Socialist) I soon realized that most of the people that were active in the movement were people who never held a real job in their life. Most were what I call Ivory Tower Liberals", or armchair leftists, white intellectuals who took up the cause for what seemed to me as an easement of their guilt. I asked myself how invested in the struggle could they be? My future, my children’s future depends on the progression of the Movement. If they get bored or scared or if the movement collapses they have nothing to loose.

I think in order for any substantial change or revolution to be made we must first separate ourselves from such people. The ivory tower must collapse before we can progress. The Movement must first remove the cancer from its own body if it is to be healthy enough to withstand the imperial machine.
There are different sorts of people. There are different classes of people under the economic system we have right now. To use only the members of the class that will get their due worth (the working class) to further the goals of the working class itself might seem like a good idea to you, but I personally think all tools at our disposal should be used. There's no hypocrisy in being upper-class right now, and a leftist. We live under a capitalist system, not a communist one. If the upper-class leftist realizes his position comes from exploitation and is still devoted to change, then there's no reason he can't be any more or less a committed leftist than the poorest of people. If they get bored or scared, it's not big loss as the prime movers of our ideology (the proletariat) are still around. There's no reason to seperate ourselves from such people (I come from a scraping to make ends meet kinda family).

[LoneRed]

I would look at those parties that have a proletaire only policy, to separate ourselves from the parasitic petty-bourgeois and middle class "intellectuals"

the party must be for the workers, by the workers

ask if you want to know more

[MKS]

This condemnation of Ivory Tower Liberalism kinda contradicts your call, in another thread, for a return to patriotic American liberalism!

The strong tendency on the left to become, openly or otherwise, patriotic American liberals....comes precisely from the kind of middle-class membership and leadership you're bemoaning here.

I think that the ideals of "American Liberalism" can be held by the men/women of any class. Ideals are usually derived from those who have time to sit and think, workers in the 18th century, obviously did not hold such a luxury. However in this modern age, an age of realtivley free communication and flow of ideas (in America at least) there should be no intellectual difference between anyone, but it seems that there is. The reason for this difference is easy to determine. Those who hold power retain power through the established systems and insitutions i.e. universities. We, the workers are at fault for not demanding or taking a more agrresive approach to the re-distribution of knoweledge. We allow the systems to remain,and at times work for their establishement and propogation.


So...pity at the plight of the poor oppressed workers? But then you say:

You completley misread my passage. I realized my life as a worker sucked. I am trapped in an cycle of work, if i dont work i dont survive. As a worker my survival depends on the employer, the markets, and other forces out of my control, as a worker I feel powerless. From these feelings I began to act to maybe secure a better future for my children or their children. The point is,my fellow workers and i have a lot more at stake than the armchair leftists, so what is stopping them from abandoning the "workers" once the shit hits the fan?

[patrickbeverley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 02:38 AM
I think in order for any substantial change or revolution to be made we must first separate ourselves from such people. The ivory tower must collapse before we can progress. The Movement must first remove the cancer from its own body if it is to be healthy enough to withstand the imperial machine.
Please, not another leftist who thinks that the left has to "free itself" from "impure" leftists who don't have enough invested in the struggle! Why on earth would surgically removing a large section of our support make us any better? This kind of leftier-than-thou thinking is exactly what frequently marginalises the movement in the face of a right that recognises that unity=victory in most cases.


The point is,my fellow workers and i have a lot more at stake than the armchair leftists, so what is stopping them from abandoning the "workers" once the shit hits the fan?

A sincere belief in the ideals of the movement?


However in this modern age, an age of realtivley free communication and flow of ideas (in America at least) there should be no intellectual difference between anyone, but it seems that there is. The reason for this difference is easy to determine. Those who hold power retain power through the established systems and insitutions i.e. universities.

That is why it is essential that the workers demand education that is really open to all, not just in theory. It is also a reason why the left should not reject those who have been fortunate enough to get an education, provided they have a commitment to the movement. I think you have underestimated what can be done by "Ivory Tower Liberals" (though perhaps "Ivory Tower Reds" would be a better term).

[MKS]

Please, not another leftist who thinks that the left has to "free itself" from "impure" leftists who don't have enough invested in the struggle! Why on earth would surgically removing a large section of our support make us any better? This kind of leftier-than-thou thinking is exactly what frequently marginalises the movement in the face of a right that recognises that unity=victory in most cases.

Well since Leftism is pretty much stagnate, shouldnt we being to examine ourselves and if nessecary remove sections of "leftism" which act more as an anchor than a catalyst?


I think you have underestimated what can be done by "Ivory Tower Liberals" (though perhaps "Ivory Tower Reds" would be a better term).

What can be done? Well what have they done so far? From where I sit, they have made little progress in their attmepts to lead the "people" to liberation. They act as preachers not as comrades. By going to university they are willingly becoming a part of the machine, they take from the machine and give to the machine. People can educate themselves without institutions. If the Ivory tower Reds are really committed to their ideals they would abandon University and take a job, join a collective or Union and beocme part of the struggle. They can still learn, but they will learn as part of the same community they so wish to set free.

[LucioCabanas1938]

MKS is right in some respects. Many upper-class leftists take a devil may care attitude towards worker's liberation. They are not willing to do anyting necessary to end exploitation, probably because their life is pretty cozy with their 500 channels of television, starbucks coffee every morning, and sealy posturpedic mattress every night. Therefore, when asked to risk anything for the cause, they start to sing a different tune. However, there are some good ones out there that aren't beyond saving. I think we need to throw armchair intellectuals out of high leadership positions in leftist organizations, so that we can actually get something done.

[YSR]

Many upper-class leftists take a devil may care attitude towards worker's liberation

How many "upper-class leftists" do you know? I know a lot of upper-class liberals but very few leftists like that.

I can't think of any, off hand.

[LucioCabanas1938]

You find a lot of them in college, and even more of them on the internet (ahem, ahem). I'm not pointing the finger at anyone, but I was one of the original members of what used to be the Che-Lives community, and there were so many of them on the site that that was pretty much the whole membership. And from reading some of the posts, there's still quite a few around....

However, to be fair to the uppercrusties, they're filling a void left by the working class because to be quite honest, it's hard as hell to organize, let alone be a leader, when you're working a full-time blue-collar job. I come home, I'm tired as hell, I'm always working on my piece of shit car so that I have a ride to work, and sometimes the last thing I feel like doing in my free time is walking around trying to organize. Blue-collar jobs in this country beat the piss out of you.

[coda]

Hey Lucio Cabanas! I remember you!! And your original name and your original signature that's said in all Cuban classrooms. Good memory, heh? I'm an original member as well---Valkyrie. good to see you back!!!!

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 10:16 PM
However, to be fair to the uppercrusties, they're filling a void left by the working class because to be quite honest, it's hard as hell to organize, let alone be a leader, when you're working a full-time blue-collar job. I come home, I'm tired as hell, I'm always working on my piece of shit car so that I have a ride to work, and sometimes the last thing I feel like doing in my free time is walking around trying to organize. Blue-collar jobs in this country beat the piss out of you.
Comrade, I know what you're saying. Oh, yeah!

But, honestly, we don't need the "uppercrusties" -- the yuppie leftists. They may be filling a void, but that's only because nature abhors a vacuum. The petty bourgeois leftists have done more harm than good when it comes to building a working people's movement, and it is high time we give them their walking papers.

The battle of survival you're fighting is a losing battle as long as you remain on your own. But you know that already. I guess my point is that any workers' political organization worthy of the name has to be composed of workers (and I don't mean just a pack of privileged white men with union cards) and has to help comrades fight that battle of survival.

If I knew where you live, I'd come over to help you keep your car running. If that, or having childcare, etc., is what's keeping you from being active, then it is something that an organization of working people has to take on.

Miles