Stalin: The Red Tsar

[Kurt Crover]

I will admit it's a mammoth read, it's a really long book, but I found it quite informative about the life of Stalin.

[Comrade Marcel]

In what way was it informative?

[Led Zeppelin]

Haven't read it, just heard of it. From what I've heard it has about as much accurate information on Stalin as the National Enquirer.

Tabloid trash, don't read it.

[Comrade Marcel]

Wow, if a Trot says it's trash and it's slandering Stalin, then it must be real trash!

[LSD]

It's actually a fairly good read.

Some of the more fantastical assertions are clearly ludicrous and its "political" "deductions" are absolute trash, but in terms of actual history it's a pretty coherent and well researched analysis of Stalin's life.

It also, unintentionaly I think, has somewhat Marxian take on the question of Stalin's "evil". Unlike the more propagandistic author who like to portray Stalin as a "paranoid madman" or an "incoherent Georgian peasant", Montifiore makes him out to be ambitious and ruthless, but not particularly "spectacularly" so.

If anything, he shows how Stalin had no choice but to be how he was, because a less paranoid individual would simply not have survived as long as he did.

I think that this book was finished before the recent release of a study suggestion that Stalin might have been poisoned, but if that turns out to have been the case, it only furthers the basic premise of the book, as I read it, namely that Stalin was a product of his environment.

In other words his "being" determined his "consciousness" ...and that doesn't speak well for the Bolshevik Party! :o

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 29 2006, 04:33 AM
Wow, if a Trot says it's trash and it's slandering Stalin, then it must be real trash!
I'm not a "Trot".

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by Massoud+Apr 29 2006, 05:21 AM--> (Massoud @ Apr 29 2006, 05:21 AM)
Comrade [email protected] 29 2006, 04:33 AM
Wow, if a Trot says it's trash and it's slandering Stalin, then it must be real trash!
I'm not a "Trot". [/b]
Isn't the Communist League a Trotskyite organization?

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 05:17 AM
It's actually a fairly good read.

Some of the more fantastical assertions are clearly ludicrous and its "political" "deductions" are absolute trash, but in terms of actual history it's a pretty coherent and well researched analysis of Stalin's life.

It also, unintentionaly I think, has somewhat Marxian take on the question of Stalin's "evil". Unlike the more propagandistic author who like to portray Stalin as a "paranoid madman" or an "incoherent Georgian peasant", Montifiore makes him out to be ambitious and ruthless, but not particularly "spectacularly" so.

If anything, he shows how Stalin had no choice but to be how he was, because a less paranoid individual would simply not have survived as long as he did.

I think that this book was finished before the recent release of a study suggestion that Stalin might have been poisoned, but if that turns out to have been the case, it only furthers the basic premise of the book, as I read it, namely that Stalin was a product of his environment.

In other words his "being" determined his "consciousness" ...and that doesn't speak well for the Bolshevik Party! :o
So in otherwords LSD, just really well written and makes a good case but still speculative and not scientific?

And, in terms of actual history, real historians and Sovietologists as well as communists (especially those in Russia) might have a disagreement with you on that. I haven't read it though, another bourgeois scholar saying Stalin was bad is about as exciting as a visit from Johava witnesses on a Sunday morning hungover, and about as common as maggots in a compost bin. They attack who they know is the biggest threat to their existance...

[LSD]

So in otherwords LSD, just really well written and makes a good case but still speculative and not scientific?

Not really.

Again, when it tries to do more than historiography, it runs into problems; but in terms of its actual historical account, it's failry scientific and very well-documented.

Obviously, I am no "sovietologist", but I've read quite a bit on the subject and, to me at least, this particular book ranks fairly highly. It actually isn't that "well written" in terms of prose, but academically speaking, it's quite impressive.

It's well over 700 pages as I recall, however, so it's not exactly "light reading"! :lol:

[amanondeathrow]

Isn't the Communist League a Trotskyite organization?

"For that matter, we are not locked into one of the specific, doctrinaire “isms” that dominate the Left. We leave such idealist exercises to the petty-bourgeois pretenders that see themselves as the next Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Mao, Stalin, etc."

Provisional Convention of the Communist League (http://www.communistleague.org/new/page.php?47)

I would recommend doing a little research before you make such judgments.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by Dee's [email protected] 29 2006, 06:35 AM

Isn't the Communist League a Trotskyite organization?

"For that matter, we are not locked into one of the specific, doctrinaire “isms” that dominate the Left. We leave such idealist exercises to the petty-bourgeois pretenders that see themselves as the next Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Mao, Stalin, etc."

Provisional Convention of the Communist League (http://www.communistleague.org/new/page.php?47)

I would recommend doing a little research before you make such judgments.
I could simply be mistaken then. Is this not the same organization associated with Pathfinder Press and they also publish a paper called "The Militant"? :huh:

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 06:29 AM
It's well over 700 pages as I recall, however, so it's not exactly "light reading"! :lol:
Sounds like this one on Mao:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080506638...glance&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805066381/002-4767060-0378424?v=glance&n=283155)

I have sitting on my shelf but haven't got around to it yet...


Product Details

* Paperback: 800 pages
* Publisher: Owl Books; Reprint edition (February 1, 2001)
* Language: English
* ISBN: 0805066381
* Product Dimensions: 9.2 x 6.1 x 1.4 inches
* Shipping Weight: 1.9 pounds.



800 pgs? 1.9 lbs? :blink: :lol:

edit: the version I've got's from a different publisher and is a bit less in pgs...

http://www.history.ac.uk/ihr/Focus/cold/reviews/short.html

http://www.history.ac.uk/ihr/Focus/cold/reviews/images/mao.jpg

[YKTMX]

I've not read it, but what I know of the author and what I hear of the book, would lead to me to believe it to be anti-Communist, establishment trash.

[LSD]

I could simply be mistaken then. Is this not the same organization associated with Pathfinder Press and they also publish a paper called "The Militant"?

No, you're thinking of the Socialist Workers' Party, formerly the Communist League USA, now affiliated with the Communist League CA, Communist League NZ and the two Austrian Communist Leagues.

It is, however, not affiliated with the former Communist League UK or the present Communist League GB; nor is it affiliated with the Revolutionary Communist League of France.

Finally, there is absolutely no relationship between the SWP and its affiliated parties (including the Communist League of Canada) and the new Communist League US ...which is what Massoud is a member of.

...fuck, can you say People's Front of Judea. :D

[Face the music]

They attack who they know is the biggest threat to their existance...

Stalin is dead and neither he is synonymous with communism. Indeed those kind of associations do not engage the grey matter in the skull futher than it has to.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by Face the [email protected] 29 2006, 01:15 PM

They attack who they know is the biggest threat to their existance...

Stalin is dead
Really? :o


and neither he is synonymous with communism.

To millions he is, and to the bourgeois, he is.


Indeed those kind of associations do not engage the grey matter in the skull futher than it has to.

Oh, your so super-intelligent! Can I grow up to be as kewl as you? :blink:

:rolleyes: :lol: