There goes Saddam - Fall of Ba'ath

[chamo]

The Iraqi president, Saddam Hussein, has joined Hitler in the pantheon of failed dictators, the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, said tonight.
Mr Rumsfeld's words came as Iraqis took to the streets of the capital to celebrate the end of Saddam's 30-year reign.

Full Story (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,933233,00.html)

It was great today to see all the happy Iraqi people, free to do what they liked and say what they thought. However, how long does everyone think it will last for? Are America's intentions pure and will the country be handed back to the Iraqi people or set up as a puppet state of the USA?

[hawarameen]

i dont know what will happen next but anyone who saw those pictures in baghdad can not say that the people there were not happy, that they were not welcoming the troops. today will go down as the happiest day in the history of iraq.

i spoke to my family today in kurdistan. the elation and ecstacy they showed was amazing, they cried, i cried and while people were singing and dancing on the streets i dont think anyone was thinking about what lies ahead.

what next?
i dont know but today i am happy

and tomorow?
i will worry about that when it comes

[Hampton]

"We are seeing history unfold. Saddam Hussein is now taking his rightful place alongside Hitler, Stalin, Lenin and Ceaucescu in the pantheon of failed, brutal dictators."

Are they failed if they die while they are still in power?

[CommieBastard]

I didn't understand that statement, i mean, Lenin died of illness, he wasnt ousted from power... it's pretty strange :S
I think their definition of failed is anyone who the US didnt like

(Edited by CommieBastard at 12:38 am on April 10, 2003)

[Pete]

Syria has been designated as the next target for trading with Iraq. Read that at Zmag. I forget who wrote it. Robert Fisk I believe.

[redstar2000]

"Are America's intentions pure?" -- happy guy

Do bears shit in outhouses?

:cool:

[Iepilei]

Yeah, I thought the Lenin quote was bullshit too - Rummy should be smacked upside his hick ass head.

[Anarcho]

So, instead of focusing on what the next stage is for Iraq, people are going to nitpick on a historical quibble?

And folks wonder why Socialists can't seem to get their act together in the US.

Personally, I'm hoping for a mostly peaceful transition to a popularly elected gov't.

[Aleksander Nordby]

soon they mabey even attack North korea and Cuba.

[Beccie]

It was good to see the Iraqi's rejoicing. Although I do think that what I saw in the media would have been heavily biased.

[Sabocat]

I don't think you can call that media staged toppling of the stature by 50-70 people "much rejoicing in Baghdad". Despite what Fox News wants us to think. They showed the toppling of the statue like it was the flag raising on Iwo Jima for christ sake. Nice try. CIA all the way.

Rumsfeld is a fucking idiot. He proved that with his statement about Lenin. It didn't even make any sense. He may be as stupid as GW if that's possible.

[Anarcho]

Disgust- Do you have any proof that the statue toppling was CIA staged, or are you just blowing this out of your ass?

See, the problem here is that there are so many on this site that are ferventy anti-US, to the point where they think that anything good the US does is either a lie, or falsified, or part of a massive hidden agenda.

I personally think it's entirely possible that the people of Iraq are now quite happy to have Saddam Hussein out of the picture. I have no reason to doubt it.

[Hampton]

http://www.voxfux.com/archives/00000085.htm

[Sabocat]

Anarch- Do you have any proof that the statue toppling wasn't CIA staged, or are you just blowing that out of your ass?

Actually I have the history of CIA operations all around the world to support my theory.

See the problem here is that there are so many on this site that are so fervently pro-US, to the point where they think that anything the US does is either the truth, or altruistic, or part of a massive liberation.

I'm sorry that I just don't take the word of Fox News or some of the other corporate sponsored media outlets as the gospel.


I watched the toppling of the statue. I didn't see the 5 million inhabitants of the city encircling the statue and cheering. I saw 50-70 people and a media contingent.

I don't doubt that there are some legitimately happy people that Saddam is gone. All I'm saying is that if Bush were gone, 100,000,000 people here would be happy too. Whats your point. Leaders have opposition in every country.

As far as it being a CIA op. Read a little history. It's a classic psyop. campaign all the way. It's no different than the way we've executed covert and overt campaigns in dozens of countries around the world. It's almost textbook. It's all part of the "winning of hearts and minds".

[Sabocat]

Oh..and BTW...can you provide me a list of the "good" the US has done? I'd like to see it.

[Iepilei]

Until the US does well for its own people, I cannot imagine them doing well for anyone else.

[Kez]

Anarch, wtf are you on about?
how old are you? 12?13?14?

READ SOME HISTORY

The people on that square were all 25-35 year olds, and there must have been 500 of them at the maximum.
Some would have been looters, some would have been CIA, some genuine.

No doubt the kurds were happy, but think about it, wouldnt YOU be happy if the end of that regime meant the end of sickening sanctions on the people of iraq?

People dont give a shit about Saddam, they want to improve their welfare, and if an end to the war, an end to sanctions an end to bombardment for 12 year by UK-US forces is given to them, then sure as fuck theyd be happy.

Your an idiot for thinking this is what the people did and it is the people will.

There will be NO democracy in Iraq, the oil wont belong to the people, the companies will not belong to the people, the army will be made to help the capitalist govt put in there.

Dont bullshit about with liberal democracy, although this is more progressive than Saddams brutal regime it is not the end, the imperialists must be kicked out, and we can help them by bring them back!

Not a Penny for the imperialist war!
For a Socialist Arab Federation!

[James]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/dailybriefi...,933752,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/dailybriefing/story/0,12965,933752,00.html)

[Hampton]

Looks like about 3 dozen people tear down the Saddam statue:

http://images.indymedia.org/imc/nyc/saddam3.jpg

[Aleksander Nordby]

wasent so many there

[Hampton]

Din't know they have DARE in Iraq:

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/110403darelarge.jpg

[Wolfie]

Well, my personal take on it is that saddam has been showing americans as satan and many iraqis who have seen it constantly will think so, therefore when american troops take over they will want to show as much support for these americans as possible to make sure they dont kill them.
They still think of them as invaders but they dare not show lack of support to the US. Much like Paris in 1940.

[peaccenicked]

There is little doubt that Saddam Hussein was a cruel tyrant and his removal from control is a cause of joy among the opposition who recieved his brutal treatment.
Nevertheless, it was the achievement of a foriegn invader and not the Iraqi people and that is a source of great anger, in a fiercely tribalistic,nationalist country. A foriegn invader which stands by and watches hospitals and homes being looted. The very notion of 'liberation' was a farce consider the US genocide of Iraqi since 1991
and we even have to remind the US 'patriots' that it was mainly the Russians that beat Hitler.
Since world war two, the US has pulled out a few fake 'liberations', that have ended up with nothing but human rights disasters. Yugoslavia and Afghanistan come to mind.
We have to remember that the US supported Batista,
and Pol Pot.
The track record of US foriegn policy is abysmal and we need only look at Kyoto, the world court,and the nuclear
non proliferation treaty to see that the US is acting as a rogue superpower.
The War in Iraq is entering stage 2:
The guerilla war. The US will become immobile and attached to bases. The Iraqi resistance which will be less centralised than before, will regroup and patiently wait for the foriegn invader to show its weaknesses.
The situation with the Kurds is also about US appeasement of Turkey. Socialist's have to support the democratic right of the Kurdish people to the own homeland, to cross all nations where they are a majority
in their region.