Rude Kids, Lazy Parents

[Capitalist Lawyer]

I'm sure the communists here will somehow link capitalism and employers to the dilemma of lazy parenting and apathetic kids.



Report: Rude kids, lazy parents biggest school problem

WASHINGTON (AP) --Ill-mannered pupils, demoralized teachers, uninvolved parents and bureaucracy in public schools are greater worries for Americans than the standards and accountability that occupy policy makers, a new study says.

Teachers, parents and students said they were concerned about the rough-edged atmosphere in many high schools, according to the report released Wednesday by Public Agenda, a research and policy organization in New York City.

Only 9 percent of surveyed Americans said the students they see in public are respectful toward adults. High school students were asked about the frequency of serious fights in schools, and 40 percent said they occurred once a month or more; 56 percent said they hardly ever happened; 4 percent had no opinion. Only 15 percent of teachers said teacher morale is good in their high school.

"This is a true reflection of how the public feels," said Shirley Igo, president of National Parent Teacher Association. "It says that our young people are looking for positive role models out there."

The report, drawing together more than 25 surveys done by Public Agenda, traces how attitudes of parents, teachers, students, principals, employers and college professors have changed over the last 10 years. A typical national random sample telephone survey on standards in 2000 canvassed 803 parents of public school students in grades K-12, with a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

The report says standard testing is important, but many other factors are hurting academic performance.

The 2001 No Child Left Behind Act holds schools accountable for student achievement. States must devise and offer tests in reading and mathematics for every child each year in grades three through eight, beginning in fall 2005. Under current law, states are required to test students in reading and math three times during their K-12 years.

"The standards movement has taken hold in American schools and continues to enjoy broad support. But there are some troublesome fault lines," said Public Agenda President Deborah Wadsworth.

Seeking support
Teachers "believe in higher standards but often feel they can't count on students to make the effort or parents and administrators to back them up," she said.

Superintendents and principals want more autonomy over their own schools, with 81 percent of superintendents and 47 percent of principals saying talented leaders most likely will leave because of politics and bureaucracy.

Teachers said their views are generally ignored by decision-makers, with 70 percent feeling left out of the loop in their district's decision-making process.

According to the report, 73 percent of employers and 81 percent of professors said public school graduates have fair or poor writing skills.

Teachers said lack of parental involvement is a serious problem, with 78 percent of teachers saying too many parents don't know what's going on with their child's education. Only 19 percent said parental involvement is strong in their high school.

Igo said part of the problem is the lack of communication between schools and homes.

"There is a lack of knowledge on the part of parents about how to be effectively involved in the school," she said. "It is a two-way street -- parents have to assume responsibility and schools have to offer meaningful opportunities for parents to be involved in students' education."

The study also found that 67 percent of teachers said their school puts obstacles in the way when they are trying to accomplish goals at work; 83 percent of teachers said parents who fail to set limits and create structure at home for their kids are a serious problem; 41 percent of teachers said schools automatically promote students who have reached a maximum age.

Respondents generally said schools place far too much emphasis on standardized test scores, with 60 percent of parents 84 percent of teachers, 52 percent of employers, 57 percent of professors, 45 percent of students agreeing.


http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/04/23/education.report.ap/

[violencia.Proletariat]

Well yes I will relate it to capitalism. Because parents have to work, they are now lazy when they don't have time to get in feuds with the bueraucracy of the school system? The major city school system that I live near is run by a bunch if idiots who argue over their status and reputation more than anything. There is no point in trying to reform the system, they spend most of their time bickering at each other than they do discussing school issues. BUT SOMEHOW YOU FIND A WAY TO BLAME IT ON THE PARENTS! :lol:

[red team]

Decline and fall of the Roman slave empire: 15 C.E. (reign of Nero) ---> 410 C.E. (sack of Rome)

Decline and fall of the American Capitalist empire: 1969 C.E. (reign of Nixon) ---> ?

For all unsustainable social systems this is true. Decline and fall is inevitable. The ruling elite of the system become idle, rich, hedonistic and decadent while the ordinary citizens become unmotivated and unproductive if not driven into virtual slavery with little to show for your labour.

[redstar2000]

Most interesting...but leaves all the important questions unasked.

1. WHY are parents "uninterested" in their children's education?

2. WHY are students "disrespectful" towards adults?

3. WHY do teachers blame parents for not "establishing structures" in their children's lives?

4. WHY do teachers feel that they're "out of the loop" when it comes to educational policies?

5. WHY is there apparently broad agreement on the question of "too much emphasis" on "standardized tests"?

Like much of bourgeois "social science", they "nibble at the edges" of various and sundry "social problems" but dare not ask questions that might yield answers that their paymasters don't want to hear!

Imagine if they did a survey that reported that 73% of high school students do not feel that adults in general and teachers in particular are worthy of respect.

Or 81.2% of parents agreed that public schools discourage parental involvement in matters of substance...and parents don't have time to waste on trivia.

Or 90.1% of teachers agreed that they were grossly underpaid and overworked...and that there was every indication that things were going to get even worse.

Who, in the ruling class, wants to hear that "shit"? :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Is it only me......or is it a fact that regardless of the topic redstar will will eventually and without exception tie every response back to 'the bourgeois' vs. 'the ruling class'.???

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 22 2006, 04:49 PM
Is it only me......or is it a fact that regardless of the topic redstar will will eventually and without exception tie every response back to 'the bourgeois' vs. 'the ruling class'.???
It's a fact. :lol:

Historical materialism is a "universal paradigm" with regard to human societies...and has much to say about individual human behavior as well.

As a communist, it's "my job" to point out how things "connect" with classes, exploitation, technological changes, class struggles, stuff like that. :lol:

I hope I'm doing my job well. :P

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 22 2006, 09:49 PM
....'the bourgeois' vs. 'the ruling class'.???

The bourgeois vs. the ruling class....? :huh:

[patrickbeverley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 10:57 PM
2. WHY are students "disrespectful" towards adults?
Because of the clash between the student's belief that (s)he is a fully functioning, rational, intelligent human being and the teacher's belief that the student is an inferior and a moron, one incapable of independent or original thought.

[Tungsten]

restar2000

It's a fact. :lol:
It's a useful tool for trying to shoehorn "it's the fault of capitalism" into every problem, real or imagined, manmade or natural, but a fact? No.
patrickbeverley

Because of the clash between the student's belief that (s)he is a fully functioning, rational, intelligent human being and the teacher's belief that the student is an inferior and a moron, one incapable of independent or original thought.
Mostly true.

[Wanted Man]

The same old story: children pissed off with school are just snotty little brats who need to get in line! Or else...

I am now going to express my sarcasm with this rolleyes pyramid:

:rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[RaiseYourVoice]

1. Respect is a two way street, if you never get it you can give it. if teacher dont respect students, why should they do the other way around?

other points i wanted to write would just repeat redstar so I stick with agreement


As a communist, it's "my job" to point out how things "connect" with classes, exploitation, technological changes, class struggles, stuff like that. laugh.gif

I hope I'm doing my job well
No you just did not yet learn to listen to what teachers told you

[Hegemonicretribution]

Why should children, especially working class children, be expected to give a shit about schools or teachers? They are made to go there, and seen as inferior to the "masters" they are made to memorise what could generally be considered trash (by anyone with education above highschool/or even an interest in a subject) with little room for debate.

This starts at an age where their bodies are telling them to run around and play, but the "grown up" tells them to sit down and shut up. It continues with hormone fuelled teens, who may or may not really want to do something, but are quickly taught that any passion is bad unless approved by these same "grown ups." There is a definite "Us and Them" feel to most schools, and especially more traditional schools with uniforms and "sirs" and "Mrs"

The reason it can often be worse for the working class children is that (just as standardised tests are culturally biased) there tends to be a bias towards bourgeois ideals. They are not taught how to think, but rather what to think, and this is often in conflict with every impulse in their body. At the end of it all (if they get there) there is little real reward, and they would probably have been better off starting work earlier, and getting experience.

The education system is a sham. Many teachers are so out of touch with the students it ceases to be funny, and starts to become worrying. The only reason they feel they can do their jobs is because they know they are right.

I have respect for one primary school teacher (but I was about 9) possibly two secondary school (high school) teachers, but definitely at least one, and that is out of over 100 teachers that I had during those periods, I think that is fairly typical.

I go to a far more relaxed college at the moment, and there is no illusion as to why I am there, or what I think of what I am being "taught" but just as the staff that teach me respect and even admire that, I respect and admire them. Everything is a first name basis, and because I know they wouldn't really break the rules, there are no rules for me, at school it was the other way around. I don't overly state my drug use, but I am very open and honest because I know most of them are as disheartened with the state of things as I am.

As far as compulsory education goes, I really couldn't care less if there was a 10 year teaching strike, but you can find a rare bit of relief in voluntary education. I know these are largely personal experiences, but I am sure I am not the only one.

[Loknar]

Oh boy this is funny as hell. You guys are in the adolescent phase where adults and authority are equal to fascism.

How come kids in other countries don’t have such a problem? I am willing to bet there is a more healthy family life with more parent involvement and not such an emphasis on material possessions.

From what I see though, kids aren’t as bad as they were when I was growing up (I am speaking of grammerschoolers.) IN fact I think they are quite timid.

When I was 10 I could ride the bus and train no problem...I wonder how many kids actually have the desire to go out and actually explore their surroundings. All they care about is X-Box. At least when I was younger there was a healthy balance between Super Nintendo and going outside.

I am not sure if it is the parents faults or not. But one thing is for sure, teachers take allot of shit from overworked parents. Everybody’s idea is to just dump truck loads of money on the school system and pretend it's OK and when their brats fail tests, well the teacher must be to blame.

A professor also told my science class that most teachers,. Be it in college or grammar school, do not have an actual degree in Education but rather learn the subjects and are hired to teach.

Also I think all of you should know that the most important time period to teach is when the child is about 5 years old. So yes you force them to learn...

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 06:29 PM
Oh boy this is funny as hell. You guys are in the adolescent phase where adults and authority are equal to fascism.

How come kids in other countries don’t have such a problem? I am willing to bet there is a more healthy family life with more parent involvement and not such an emphasis on material possessions.




Stop being so ageist, you may find your self a little off here, because even people who have become "grown up" and are now old enough to drink, get married, work etc still feel the same towards education.

Also there have been posts from more than one country sharing these views.


From what I see though, kids aren’t as bad as they were when I was growing up (I am speaking of grammerschoolers.) IN fact I think they are quite timid.
Oh yes, in general they are quite apathetic, but you do get a few that are extreme.


When I was 10 I could ride the bus and train no problem...I wonder how many kids actually have the desire to go out and actually explore their surroundings. All they care about is X-Box. At least when I was younger there was a healthy balance between Super Nintendo and going outside.
Maybe you will get potty training nailed when you hit thirteen this month :lol: (that was only a joke by the way, nothing personal...it was just left open)
I used to love exploring, and I keep survival training up to date. I have a borrowed Sega Mega Drive upstairs, but have little time for consoles, and many kids are the same, unfortunately many are also not.

Generalisations aren't really adequate here.



A professor also told my science class that most teachers,. Be it in college or grammar school, do not have an actual degree in Education but rather learn the subjects and are hired to teach.
True, it is funny seeing a teacher being stood up by a genuinely enthusiastic pupil, but too often they are chastised for speaking out of line.


Also I think all of you should know that the most important time period to teach is when the child is about 5 years old. So yes you force them to learn... No need to, at that age you just have to provide stimulus. If they see people reading, they will want to be able to, if they see them on bikes, they will want to. Shoelaces, arithmatic, language...and that age it takes effort to stop them from wanting to learn, television and crap food help though <_< School also starts to put them off within about a year. You can&#39;t have a population wanting to actually be smart, rather than being able t quote subjective bullshit....

[red team]

I am not sure if it is the parents faults or not. But one thing is for sure, teachers take allot of shit from overworked parents. Everybody’s idea is to just dump truck loads of money on the school system and pretend it&#39;s OK and when their brats fail tests, well the teacher must be to blame.


It simply must be true that they&#39;re all bratty little kids who don&#39;t care about learning. <_< It must be true because your teacher say so and you agree with him <_< Most kids aren&#39;t stupid. They know what&#39;s going on around their society. When they see what&#39;s going on in popular culture, they know they&#39;re being ripped off. I mean seriously, you see all these talentless, spoiled fucks on television who don&#39;t need to work a day in their lives, but who get to enjoy the good life, while you see employees from companies getting the pink slip while their boss takes off with millions. Are you still motivated to study hard for that career that may never come?

As far as discipline is concerned, I&#39;ve had my share of authoritarian teachers in my student years, but that doesn&#39;t mean I don&#39;t respect them for their expertise in their fields. I may not agree with their teaching methods, but I have a hell of a lot more respect for someone who earned their privilege to be arrogant assholes than someone who simply inherited or stole their wealth from the labour of others. That said, I don&#39;t agree with mandatory attendance or the washroom policies in pre-college schools. If I should respect you enough to be an expert in the subject area you&#39;re going to be teaching, you should respect me enough to be dedicated to learning it without needing to enforce mandatory attendance or permission for washroom breaks.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by red [email protected] 23 2006, 06:59 PM
If I should respect you enough to be an expert in the subject area you&#39;re going to be teaching,


As Loknar said before, most teachers are far from experts, quite often they don&#39;t have a degree in a subject that they are teaching at A-Level (UK). They simply take a degree, do a conversion course (to teaching) and then learn how to impart a particular syllabus upon the students. I remember going on instructor&#39;s courses, and you can easily teach something you are new to yourself. I don&#39;t respect their "expertese" in fact the only teacher I definitely respected from high school was also the only one who specialised in the subject they taught. They also specialised in other areas, but didn&#39;t feel the need to gloat like some of the teachers who have totally unrelated degrees from a "posh" university. It makes me sick, I want to learn not jack-off over some Phd.


you should respect me enough to be dedicated to learning it without needing to enforce mandatory attendance or permission for washroom breaks.
If actually teaching the students was the goal, do you think such counter-productive methods would be in place? At least in theory, political philosophy has evolved over the last few hundred years, but the schools are still Hobbesian in their approach. We are there (in the most part) to learn about being subservient, personally it is a lesson that I could have done without. It is amazing how much better things are when they are optional.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Loknar
Everybody’s idea is to just dump truck loads of money on the school system...

That may well be "everybody&#39;s idea"...but it doesn&#39;t happen.

At least not in the U.S. and especially not in "inner city" public schools.

Granted that some wealthy suburban school districts may have "state of the art" public schools where "nearly everyone" can go on to college...you know as well as I that this is not the case in the schools dominated by minorities and poor whites.

"Truckloads of money", if they ever actually materialized would be a big help&#33;

I ain&#39;t holding my breath on that one. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Loknar]

Stop being so ageist, you may find your self a little off here, because even people who have become "grown up" and are now old enough to drink, get married, work etc still feel the same towards education.


Perhaps so. I don’t mean to sound offensive but I do think that your young age does have an influence in your thought process. I wont talk down at you though and I even think I agree with your outlook on education. I owe you all an apology and I do see you have a logical reason for not liking your teachers methods or respect the education system.

I have never respected the education system until I was in grade 7 & 8. When I was in that grade we had 2 teachers. One taught English, History and Literature. The other teacher taught mathematics and science. Both teachers did a superb job and it was the first year I actually loved to go to class and wanted to do my work instead of screw around. Plus it was the first time I had a male teacher, I felt he connected with the class much better than my other teachers could, though I am not implying that women couldn’t do the same but in my grammar school most were mid-aged women who were stressed out big time.

In 8th grade I didn’t screw around but it wasn’t like 7th. I had 2 teachers but the class didn’t hold me like the one in 8th.

I had or have a learning disability...hard to say which. I honestly think my school kept me in LD class for the subsidy the schools got per child with LDs...Capitalism at work right?

Believe me, I wont say we are perfect...I know capitalistic countries are horrible at education where as socialist nations, even poor, excel.




Maybe you will get potty training nailed when you hit thirteen this month :lol: (that was only a joke by the way, nothing personal...it was just left open)
I used to love exploring, and I keep survival training up to date. I have a borrowed Sega Mega Drive upstairs, but have little time for consoles, and many kids are the same, unfortunately many are also not.


Don’t worry no offense taken :lol:


I have an X-box the only new gen system. Other than that I have old systems but I don’t play as much as I used to. Still, these kids need a boot to the ass. I think it’s mostly young boys who are really at risk. I can see even though as naive as my young cousin is, she has an imagination and isn’t a zombie from the time she gets home from school from the time she has to go to bed.




True, it is funny seeing a teacher being stood up by a genuinely enthusiastic pupil, but too often they are chastised for speaking out of line.

Exactly. The way education is, it could be divided into the arts, scholarly research and the sciences and any other category I am missing…

Going thru grammar school, I thought of it as a repeat every year. First we refreshed our self in basic math then moved up to division and multiplication.. When we got in 6th grade and up i think we got into algebra...cant remember though. Its like, there is no plan beyond each individual grade.



No need to, at that age you just have to provide stimulus. If they see people reading, they will want to be able to, if they see them on bikes, they will want to. Shoelaces, arithmatic, language...and that age it takes effort to stop them from wanting to learn, television and crap food help though <_< School also starts to put them off within about a year. You can&#39;t have a population wanting to actually be smart, rather than being able t quote subjective bullshit....


Yes school does put you off after Kindergarten...believe me i know. Seems like yesterday I was a timid boy in 1st grade...IN that time you think time is forever and doesn’t pass.

Oh damn I need to shut up. I am 21 and going on like an old man. I need a drink.

Yes we can have a population that desires to be smart…but how? Sure we all have that intital stimulus but then as you point out erodes. Something needs to be done but damned if I know what that something is.

[Loknar]

Originally posted by red [email protected] 23 2006, 06:59 PM




It simply must be true that they&#39;re all bratty little kids who don&#39;t care about learning. <_< It must be true because your teacher say so and you agree with him <_< Most kids aren&#39;t stupid. They know what&#39;s going on around their society. When they see what&#39;s going on in popular culture, they know they&#39;re being ripped off. I mean seriously, you see all these talentless, spoiled fucks on television who don&#39;t need to work a day in their lives, but who get to enjoy the good life, while you see employees from companies getting the pink slip while their boss takes off with millions. Are you still motivated to study hard for that career that may never come?


Honestly I have to disagree. I don’t think kids notice injustice that early on, I could be wrong and just not realize it. This is something I honestly have to really think about.

And yes, when was younger i hated the kids on TV. I thought they were spoiled bastards. McCauley Culcan especially I hated because I thought he was a spoiled bastard.

But I don’t think ever experienced hopelessness until I was a teen.




As far as discipline is concerned, I&#39;ve had my share of authoritarian teachers in my student years, but that doesn&#39;t mean I don&#39;t respect them for their expertise in their fields. I may not agree with their teaching methods, but I have a hell of a lot more respect for someone who earned their privilege to be arrogant assholes than someone who simply inherited or stole their wealth from the labour of others

Agreed.



. That said, I don&#39;t agree with mandatory attendance or the washroom policies in pre-college schools. If I should respect you enough to be an expert in the subject area you&#39;re going to be teaching, you should respect me enough to be dedicated to learning it without needing to enforce mandatory attendance or permission for washroom breaks.

The washroom policies in my day were needed. Because, on more than one occasion my and a friend would ask the teacher f we could go to the washroom, and when we did we would screw around. Nobody was around so we wet toilet paper and threw it all over.

Of course you got in trouble from time to time but believe me, in my day we screwed around.

Though I can only speak for people like me. Somebody may really need to use the bathroom...

But where I went to school the class went together. 1 time in the morning and 1 time after lunch…maybe once more after that I don’t remember…

[Loknar]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Apr 24 2006, 02:17 AM--> (redstar2000 @ Apr 24 2006, 02:17 AM)
Loknar
Everybody’s idea is to just dump truck loads of money on the school system...

That may well be "everybody&#39;s idea"...but it doesn&#39;t happen.

At least not in the U.S. and especially not in "inner city" public schools.

Granted that some wealthy suburban school districts may have "state of the art" public schools where "nearly everyone" can go on to college...you know as well as I that this is not the case in the schools dominated by minorities and poor whites.

"Truckloads of money", if they ever actually materialized would be a big help&#33;

I ain&#39;t holding my breath on that one. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif [/b]
Yes the Property Tax is a prime factor. but how many times have there been the whole "money to education this" and that.

Honestly I don’t know what to think.

I know it isn’t equal though....a rich neighborhood pays more i property taxes than a poor one.

[Kia]

Ive attended two Highschools (that are usually in the top 5 best Highschools in California) and the equivalent of elementary school in England. I dropped out last year (junior year) for some of the very reasons being discussed on this thread.

Both my Highschools were located in rather wealthy areas. The public schools recieved much larger funding then most inner city schools, but even then you can notice how poorly funded the schools are. Falling apart classrooms, terrible teachers, a lack of educational supplies, etc..In California so little money is poured into education its sickening. You could start a lemonade stand on the street, and in an hour make more money for school then the damn state government gives. Due to the total lack of money poured into schools, the schools are forced to hire cheap, badly educated, usually lacking crudentials, teachers who only take the job because they cant get a specific job in the major the applied for at college. If schools had more money they could easily pay for much more experienced teachers. Wonder why Universities are often filled with the best teachers? easy&#33; they take in vasts amounts of cash that allow them to pay the best people in each profession in each academic area to come and teach&#33; Schools systems in America are so driven by money its grossly disgusting. Inner city, rural area, and poor suburbs kids all suffer in education because of a lack of money. And since crappy teachers are hired, the teachers lack the ability to motive the kids. Its not that kids inately dont want to learn. Its that one needs to find something in the subject that they are learning that interests each individual child. If the kid is bored, then he wont want to go to school, simple as that. What the Left needs to do is establish a way to seperate schools from money so much, and provide other insentives for better teachers to want to attend the schools.
Another thing that nobody notices in america is schools that the times school starts is completely ridiculous. Try waking up at 6:30am to learn....unless your one of those kids that goes to sleep at 9am...your totally fucked. Its almost impossible to stay awake and pay attention. Kids need 8hours of sleep. There is no reason for why they should be denied it.
Child laziness in America is incredibly hard to pinpoint. Sure, you could blame video games, tv, hollywood, the government, america culture, etc.... but its ridiculous to say one area causes it. Whats more easy to notice is the side effects caused by this. such as obesity. Man is it a problem. Childhood Obesity is everywhere here. What needs to be done to reduce that is to really go straight after america culture of food and exercise. instead of making quaint little billboard signs that say "eat your vegis" they need to make large signs that viciously attack obesity and the culture behind it.

I actually havnt said much about my reasons for dropping out....(though i doubt few care..but maybe itll give an idea of specifically the USA&#39;s education system). I dropped out because i got SICK and FUCKING TIRED or learning the same things over and over again. Very little variety is introduced into schools, most of the time they are cutting electives compared to adding new ones. The reason for this is again, money..no funding..no diversity. Secondaly, i left school due to the fact that i was continually being told what to do with my life...you must get a 4.0 gpa (ha, i had a 4.0 anyways)....you must take these AP courses, these math courses, and these english classes...you must then attend a 4 year college....you must then attend atteng grad school.....etc...... They barely ever tell you that their are other possibilities out there. Adding into the factor of being bored by my teachers, my classes, learning repatitive information that some 600year old senator had deemed important for me to learn, lack of variety and other factors i left school.

After being out of school for a year and actually pursuing things that i was interested, ive learnt that im deeply interested in learning again&#33; The school system was the reason i didnt want to learn in the past. Not video games, not laziness, not drugs, not peer pressure.


I dont expect the Left (specificaly Anarchists & Communists) to start a revolution so kids can get a better education; more attention though should definately be paid to the subject. Capitalism needs to be drastically removed from education along with preassigned list of subjects that one must learn.

:D

(quick note): mandatory attendance is a good idea (HAHA, im a hypocrite). It just shouldnt be the only reason why a kid goes to school. It should just exist to make sure that kids spend enough time in school to really learn.

(quick note 2): Kids do notice injustice at an early age, just not in the same way we do. Its Right or Wrong for them; the intricate parts they just miss over. A child wont understand that the government shouldnt opress its citizens, but it will understand that a person should have the right to not be "bullied".

[Loknar]

Kia,

I am wondering, what did you do after you dropped out?

I dropped out, in fact, I only attended High school for 4 days and dropped out. I eventually got my GED and now I am in college. I am one of those people who hate the propaganda, like you said, "Go to college, get the best education, make the most money."

In my life I honestly would not like a fulltime career. To me it weighs a person down and the only driving force in their life is for the company, something I couldn’t stand. I see in in people in my own family...they work so hard, put in long hours, are always tired, and I don’t want a life like that.

When people ask what I am going to college for, I usually say "because society tells me to" because there is truth in it. Though I do like college and I want a Bachelors in a subject of my interest even though it may not be useful to me in the long run (something with History)...I want it but i don’t know if I will do it though...for all I know it’ll go the normal rout which I really would detest doing and get a degree that pays well….Well no actually just thinking about it disturbs me…

Honestly though I don’t want to give any of you the wrong impression.

But don’t you just love it when people say “you can be anything you want…” then when you are about to enter college a family member sits across the dinner table and says “go for the money…”. A world with contradictions indeed…

[Capitalist Lawyer]

1. WHY are parents "uninterested" in their children&#39;s education?

2. WHY are students "disrespectful" towards adults?

3. WHY do teachers blame parents for not "establishing structures" in their children&#39;s lives?

4. WHY do teachers feel that they&#39;re "out of the loop" when it comes to educational policies?

5. WHY is there apparently broad agreement on the question of "too much emphasis" on "standardized tests"?



Personally, I see five questions with assumptions that may well depending on a given school, school district and even an entire community.

I see no point to the questions at all, other than to blame, now lemme guess, the &#39;ruling class&#39;?

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 25 2006, 10:07 PM

1. WHY are parents "uninterested" in their children&#39;s education?

2. WHY are students "disrespectful" towards adults?

3. WHY do teachers blame parents for not "establishing structures" in their children&#39;s lives?

4. WHY do teachers feel that they&#39;re "out of the loop" when it comes to educational policies?

5. WHY is there apparently broad agreement on the question of "too much emphasis" on "standardized tests"?



Personally, I see five questions with assumptions that may well depending on a given school, school district and even an entire community.

I see no point to the questions at all, other than to blame, now lemme guess, the &#39;ruling class&#39;?
Look at the nature of the thread that you started :lol:

I know that it was an article that brought in, but the same criticisms levied against Redstar there could be used against the article.

Of course these problems will occur to different extents, if at all, depending on the specific circumstance. However they still exist as trends, and I think Redstar&#39;s criticisms are fair, and it didn&#39;t really need spelling out that these are "general."

What is wrong with blaming the ruling class, after all they are supposed to be in charge :rolleyes: As far as I knew this should make them responsible. The problem is that in many cases they have no real mandate, and they benifit from their position, so when there are failings like this (regardless of who the blame is passed onto) you can understand the reasons for people being pissed off.

Do you have responses to the other arguments, or are you stopping at ignoring arguments when they point the finger at the ruling class?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Capitalist Lawyer
I see no point to the questions at all, other than to blame, now lemme guess, the &#39;ruling class&#39;?

It&#39;s really not a matter of "villainy"...it&#39;s how a system functions and what social phenomena it naturally generates.

It seems to bother you a great deal that we here look for those "links"...do you imagine that they "wouldn&#39;t exist" if we would just all close our eyes and "think happy thoughts"? :lol:

Aren&#39;t you at least curious about the "why" of social phenomena?

Or would you simply like to blame each individual for their indisputable inadequacies...and just leave it at that?

As the godsuckers say, we are "all sinners" and "fall short of the glory of God".

Secular version: "fall short of the glory of Bill Gates". :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif