Suicide

[Angry Young Man]

Why do so many cultures, namely the Western one, condemn suicide. They deem it as cowardly, but I believe it would take several moments of deep rational thought that it would have the better outcome, and a considerable amount of courage to realise you will no longer exist, most possibly in any way at all.

[LoneRed]

suicide is the cowards way out, but the way the western world handles it is a little crazy. If someone goes that far and has serious pyschological problems, than that person should get some help fighting it, especially if its a comrade of ours

[Bannockburn]

It has long historical roots. For example Aristotle argued that suicide is not wrong for the individual doing the act, rather is harmful for all others in the obligations and duties you have towards them, ie, your family, the state, etc. This is why its "selfish" Christianity picked up on it, and argued only God has the right...blah blah. You know how it goes.

Some have argued, namely Nietzsche, Buddhist traditions, and others argued that we should "die at the right time" and its more honorable to die a natural death among friends, family and loved ones, than be artifically connect to life through machines - Marx said it best - an appendage.

[Mare]

There are several psychological disorders that are very difficult -- impossible for many people -- to deal with: bipolar, szchizophrenia, etc. If they want to die there is nothing wrong with that after trying other options: therapy, medication, etc. After suffering for 30 years, every day of your life, is there any reason to believe something will get much better?

[drain.you]

Dunno where I got this quote from but I think it sums up suicide;

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.”

I wouldn't advise it, suprisingly enough.

I've seen families affected by loss of a family member (not through suicide) and you may have too, it destroys people to lose someone through death and even more so if they know that the person wanted to die. Imagine knowing your friend/parent/child/sister/whatever was in so much pain that they ended their own life and that you had no idea how they felt or couldnt hlep them, etc.

There can be many reasons for suicide though. Some selfish, some not but suicide will always affect someone negatively. I dont think its cowardly, it takes courage.You can't help some people though.

I have known people who have attempted suicide on overdoses and slitting wrists, they got revived but man, how shit it was for them afterwards; the pain, dealing with family and friends, doctors and shrinks.

I dunno what to say, this topic makes me a bit upset....soz if i just wrote a load of rubbish...

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 07:16 PM
suicide is the cowards way out, but the way the western world handles it is a little crazy. If someone goes that far and has serious pyschological problems, than that person should get some help fighting it, especially if its a comrade of ours
Why is it the coward's way out? Do you know the reason for every single suicide that has ever occurred?

[Noah]

suicide is the cowards way out

It depends on the circumstances of that person..

For example, people with terminal illnesses or cancers or diseases/conditions that will eventually kill them are different to people who did it while they were on drugs are under totally different circumstance. Thus the point that I am making is, don't generalise!

[drain.you]

Theres many things that could make a person consider suicide. I can't really think of any situations where it would be cowardly.

[VermontLeft]

i dont thnk that suicide is ever a good idea :P, but its a personal one and no one has any business calling people names for what they want to do with their own bodies.

its like abortion actually. a lot of peoppl think that abortion is "murder", but that doesnt give them the right to make it illegal. so even if you think that suicide is cowardly or whatever, its still a personal think and your morals dont matter.

suicide is obviously sad though cause it does mean that the suicider was completely trapped. :(

realistically tht means that the only way to make suicide less appealing to people is to make life more appealing to them, which is kinda hard under capitalism...

i would think that communism would have a lot less suicide cause treatment and care would be free and all! :)

[Dyst]

I think this thread is quite relevant to why people decide to committ suicide:

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=48952

[dannie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 01:25 AM
i dont thnk that suicide is ever a good idea :P, but its a personal one and no one has any business calling people names for what they want to do with their own bodies.

its like abortion actually. a lot of peoppl think that abortion is "murder", but that doesnt give them the right to make it illegal. so even if you think that suicide is cowardly or whatever, its still a personal think and your morals dont matter.

suicide is obviously sad though cause it does mean that the suicider was completely trapped. :(

realistically tht means that the only way to make suicide less appealing to people is to make life more appealing to them, which is kinda hard under capitalism...

i would think that communism would have a lot less suicide cause treatment and care would be free and all! :)
you said it all!

[LoneRed]

the number of suicides because of terminal is low on the number of suicides, many suicides are high school kids, who get picked on, and feel just like shit. Ya they should be helped, and some may not have the capacity to realize that its a ridiculous idea, but some cant be blammed for it. People need to realize that the world is all there is, No heaven above, No Hell below

[which doctor]

When I am really old or near death I will go really high up in an airplane and jump out. The only catch is I won't have a parachute on. What a rush that would be, racing towards the ground knowing that your death is only seconds away.

That's how I want to go.

[Fistful of Steel]

From a logical perspective I can't see any reason not to commit suicide, unless perhaps that there is a God. Which wouldn't be logical at all.

[TC]

Why do so many cultures, namely the Western one, condemn suicide.

Simply because it upsets people to think about people they know doing it.

...and Christian 'morality' has given people the idea that if the consensual choices of other people bother you, its not you who has the problem, its them.

Suicide is understandably upseting. Disturbing even. Calling it cowardly, selfish, and so on though is increadibly wrong. Everyone's life is their own first and foremost, what they decide to do with it so long as it doesn't coerce anyone else, including end it, is their perogative and 'selfish' doesn't enter into the issue.


Still i think there are absurdly few instances where it could be a rational option for someone not facing imminent death anyways. Most of the times people commit suicide they do it not because they genuinely want to die for its own sake but because they want emotional pain and loss to stop or they feel that their situation is hopeless, that they'll never enjoy life, or even if they could that they're unable to try anymore. I think there are few situations where if given enough time someone wouldn't be able to repair their lives to the point they'd be worth living again (with some exceptions) and since suicide is irreversible it takes away the options.

[Comrade Marcel]

No one should be cirminalized for (attempted) suicide. But, of course we should take the position that under capitalism suicide could potentially effect others, when certian people are dependent on the persyn in question.

Under socialism, most people wouldn't want to or be driven to suicide, and those that do would have so much help and resources available that the amount of suicides would go down substantially.

JMO.

[Hegemonicretribution]

You affirm your life, and all its absurdities by living it. You reject this by committing suicide.

It is a quite simple matter in my oppinion, and should be down to individual choice. You can improve conditions for people to a certain extent, but if an individual chooses not to live what right do we have to stop them?

We don't have a right to take their life, as that would be deciding their future on our own part, but why shouldn't they decide for themselves? It isn't romantic, it isn't grandiose, it is a choice.

[drain.you]

From a logical perspective I can't see any reason not to commit suicide, unless perhaps that there is a God. Which wouldn't be logical at all.

There isnt really a reason to live other than to experience happiness and to aid others. But humans gives so much meaning to life that only a minority ever commit suicide.

What I don't understand is why animals have so many defense mechinisms and ways to escape predators. Why do they want to be alive so much?

[Dyst]

What I don't understand is why animals have so many defense mechinisms and ways to escape predators. Why do they want to be alive so much?

They are not self-conscious, the way we are. They do it because they have to, they do not want to feel pain.

They are probably not aware of death.

[drain.you]

So why do they run away from predators?
They cant have been killed before so they dont know the predator wants to eat them, they dont know they will die and how should they know they will experience pain?

[Disciple of Prometheus]

I think suicide is best examined by case to case basis, and one can neither deem all suicide deeply rational, or deeply irrational, or psychotic. It must be looked at from a non-emotional viewpoint.

For example, say a guy lost his gf, and is feeling terribly upset, feels like his life is crumbling, and wants to commit suicide, would he be irrational if he did? Probally so. Is he a coward if he did, not necessarily, if he had a good job, good pay, nice living space, family, friends, then yes he would be an irrational coward, but if he had no friends, no family left, crummy job with long hours, for a small pay, then he would not be a coward at all, because she would have probably been the best thing going for him.

However take man number two with the crummy job, if said gf was mean and vindictive, and treated him cruelly, the once noble man, would become a coward, because he would certainly be better of without her.

Losing a gf, wife, bf, husband, is granted not a good reason to kill yourself, but I think the examples to what I was getting at, it should be seen as neutral, because you cannot lump all suicides into one pile.

The suicide of Thích Quảng Đức which was pretty noble, cannot be lumped together with the suicide of a young man, who has everything going for him, but kills himself, because he is sick of jocks making fun of him, that would be cowardly.

[Fistful of Steel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 02:32 PM

From a logical perspective I can't see any reason not to commit suicide, unless perhaps that there is a God. Which wouldn't be logical at all.

There isnt really a reason to live other than to experience happiness and to aid others. But humans gives so much meaning to life that only a minority ever commit suicide.

What I don't understand is why animals have so many defense mechinisms and ways to escape predators. Why do they want to be alive so much?
Yeah, we only live because we are happy or we believe we have a chance to be happy. And who knows really why we have such defence mechanisms in place to ensure our survival, maybe nature or God is trying to ensure that the perfect organism comes into being and wants to give as much chance to that. It's the nature of any living thing to multiply and grow, no matter how parasitic it seems. Reminds me of the quote "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of cancer cells".

[comet_rider]

Yeah, we only live because we are happy or we believe we have a chance to be happy. And who knows really why we have such defence mechanisms in place to ensure our survival, maybe nature or God is trying to ensure that the perfect organism comes into being and wants to give as much chance to that. It's the nature of any living thing to multiply and grow, no matter how parasitic it seems.

I think the only way to truly "live" is to express the human powers - to love, to know, etc. That is true "hapiness". But capitalism had changed all that - in capitalism, "I am what I have", not "I am what I am", having is above being, life itself becomes an investment, everything is an alienated private property - for example, people now think of "possesing" knowledge and "receiving" or "giving" love. In reality, "love" refers to the prossess of loving, there is no receiving or giving, and it is not an alienated object that you can own, it is a prossess. For a person that truly "knows", "ignorant" is as good as knowledge, because they're both part of the prossess of knowing. Getting 50's in school doesn't mean you're ignorant, but trying to "possess" knowledge does.

One reason of why suicide rate goes higher and higher in ratio to the population is likely to be the fault of capitalism - mankind is alienated from himself, we are afraid of freedom, and so suicide becomes a way for reunifying one's self. Indeed, this need to "reunify" and the tribalism stemming from it (presently in the form of nationalism) played perhaps the most fundamental role in history, from the totems of first nations (an attempt to reunify with nature or in christian terms, in case there are christians here, to return to paradise, although it is through idolatry), to the writing of the bible (to eliminate "strangers" by assimilation, and promise to reunify self), to nazi germany (to eliminate strangers by destroying them, to reunify self by surrendering it). The blacks and reds (and humanists) attempt to reunify the self by destroying the things that shattered it in the first place, as Marx puts it: "giving up illusions is to give up circumstances that require illusions" (or something like that). We eliminate strangers - an illusion in itself - by destroying the concept of stranger itself.

This is where the left wing and humanism unite. We all require the destruction of capitalism. We both believe the alive, human powers to be superior to dead, capitalist "things", as in human labour, intelligence, etc. should not depend on a capitalist market, they should not be controled by dead things, they should be valued because they're alive and human, not because they can be converted into commodities. To achieve this, there must be a change in the concept of value itself, which comes from a social change. Some call this change a "humanistic renaissance", some call it "communistic revolution", no matter what it is called, it's really one thing - let humans be truly humans again, free from being exploited for possesions, free from having to obey dead things, free from idolatry of ALL kinds, including government and any other kind of hierarchy, and free from the deadly plague of the "having" mode, as opposed to the "being" mode.

When put together, nothing can prevent the arrival of humanistic anarcho-communism.

As for why animals try to survive... those that don't are dead, aren't they? Maybe a long time ago, many animals don't have strong drives to live. But these ones died off and those few that have a stronger survival drive than others reproduce and the offsprings that have exceptionally strong survival drives reproduce again and their strong surviving offsprings reproduce and etc. So the survival drives get stronger and stronger.

Actually I think Freud's death drive theory is rather interesting... but that's kinda off topic i guess.

[comet_rider]

o and also i've read an article on the relationship between capitalism and bi-polar disorder. i'll find a link and post it ASAP.

[VermontLeft]

The suicide of Thích Quảng Đức which was pretty noble, cannot be lumped together with the suicide of a young man, who has everything going for him, but kills himself, because he is sick of jocks making fun of him, that would be cowardly.

i have no fucking idea who thic....qung....whatever is :P, but i still think its unfair to call someone a "coward" because they want to kill themselves.

its like christian fucks who call women "sluts" or "killers" for having abortions or who call gays "sinners" or "sodomites". its none of your fucking business!! :angry:

what someone wnts to do with their body is their deal and no one else should call them fucking names for it.

i dont think that suicide is "good" or whatever :rolleyes:, but i would never make fun of someone because they wanted to.

so if you want to tell people not to comit suicide, i think thats probably good, bur common, leave the "cowardly" shit out of it. its really not helpful <_<

OK? :) ;)

[phragit]

Suicide often stems from human ego. People feel pressure from society that they cannot handle in their current state of mind. This is shown greatly in Harakiri, the Japonese ritual suicide for when a person, often a warrior, is dishonored; it was common until WWII.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 02:32 PM
What I don&#39;t understand is why animals have so many defense mechinisms and ways to escape predators. Why do they want to be alive so much?
Well put quite simply; those that don&#39;t have these mechanisms, or drive to live, don&#39;t live to be taken into account. It is basic evolutionary theory.

I may be very wrong, but if memory serves, Thích Quảng Đức was the head of a school of martial arts. I think he was involved with Tae Kwon Doe (sp?) he was pretty much the best the world had ever seen.

[Disciple of Prometheus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 06:47 AM
i have no fucking idea who thic....qung....whatever is :P, but i still think its unfair to call someone a "coward" because they want to kill themselves.


Thích Quảng Đức (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fd/Thich_Quang_Duc_-_Self_Immolation.jpg)

"I was to see that sight again, but once was enough. Flames were coming from a human being; his body was slowly withering and shriveling up, his head blackening and charring. In the air was the smell of burning human flesh; human beings burn surprisingly quickly. Behind me I could hear the sobbing of the Vietnamese who were now gathering. I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think.... As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him."-David Halberstam, New York Times.

I would never lump the two together, sometimes people need to be told the cold hard facts for them to get shocked backed into reality, and not idly swept up into an action purely by emotion, the second guy, should never commit suicide given thoughs conditions, so what if people make fun of him, is that good excuse to kill himself? No, it&#39;s cowardly, and if I ever met such a person, I would tell him the exact same thing, maybe it will shock some sense into him.

[Fistful of Steel]

What the fuck is cowardly about suicide, honestly? You&#39;re going to a place nobody knows, bringing along nothing and no one. You may be resigning yourself to an eternity of nothing, or perhaps pain. It takes intense pain to get there in most cases. Most people don&#39;t want anyone to kill themselves. Living life when you don&#39;t want to because a bunch of assholes think you should is far more cowardly.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by Hegemonicretribution
I may be very wrong, but if memory serves, Thích Quảng Đức was the head of a school of martial arts. I think he was involved with Tae Kwon Doe (sp?) he was pretty much the best the world had ever seen.

:lol: What&#39;s your source of information? His bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thich_Quang_Duc) says nothing about martial arts, when I heard the name it sounded Vietnamese (which prompted me to look him up - I was right) and Tae Kwon Do is a Korean martial art&#33; What planet are you from?

I guess your memory isn&#39;t serving you well&#33; :lol:

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by Comrade Marcel+Apr 23 2006, 05:51 PM--> (Comrade Marcel @ Apr 23 2006, 05:51 PM)
Hegemonicretribution
I may be very wrong, but if memory serves, Thích Quảng Đức was the head of a school of martial arts. I think he was involved with Tae Kwon Doe (sp?) he was pretty much the best the world had ever seen.

:lol: What&#39;s your source of information? His bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thich_Quang_Duc) says nothing about martial arts, when I heard the name it sounded Vietnamese (which prompted me to look him up - I was right) and Tae Kwon Do is a Korean martial art&#33; What planet are you from?

I guess your memory isn&#39;t serving you well&#33; :lol: [/b]
Shit you&#39;re right, my head was right up my ass when I wrote that :lol: Definiteley laying off the drugs for now.

I understand where I got confused, I also recall who we are on about, I had the image of his suicide as my Instant messenger picture for ages. :blink:

I went to a discussion group a while ago, and the martial arts guy (I know his name has returned to me, but I won&#39;t post because it is embarrassing :blush:) was the hero of one of the people in the group (very into Eastern religions), I was saying that the discipline excerted by that Buddhist who set themselves alight (this better be him, I still haven&#39;t checked sources and I can&#39;t fuck up twice in one day) was supperior to that shown by the martial arts guy.

I am completely up to date now, and if I am not, I think I will set my self alight :huh:

See kids ^ This is what you get when you search in a drug addled conscious of sorts (mine), rather than checking readily availible sources :rolleyes:

I admit it, I was very wrong.

[patrickbeverley]

The reason suicide is not "allowed" is that people are very rarely in a stable state of mind when they choose to do it. Suicide is caused, in the majority of cases, by depression and mental breakdown, and it&#39;s unfair to allow someone to take such a serious decision as ending their life in such a state.


leave the "cowardly" shit out of it. its really not helpful

Agreed. Suicide is often caused by low self-esteem, calling someone a coward really isn&#39;t going to solve that.


There are several psychological disorders that are very difficult -- impossible for many people -- to deal with: bipolar, szchizophrenia, etc. If they want to die there is nothing wrong with that after trying other options: therapy, medication, etc. After suffering for 30 years, every day of your life, is there any reason to believe something will get much better?

Understood, but a lot of suicides are people who simply have not had the opportunity to get help.

[Shiroryuu]

I am appalled that some people condemn suicide and in some countries, even make it illegal, including euthanasia. I consider suicide to be an acceptable act depending on the situations, in some situations, I would even consider it an honorable act of courage. Calling a person a coward for commiting suicide is definately not going to help, it&#39;ll only make things much worse for that person IMO.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 03:56 PM
I am appalled that some people condemn suicide and in some countries, even make it illegal, including euthanasia. I consider suicide to be an acceptable act depending on the situations, in some situations, I would even consider it an honorable act of courage. Calling a person a coward for commiting suicide is definately not going to help, it&#39;ll only make things much worse for that person IMO.
People think we are living in a secularised society, but religious influence still hinders the life of many without any consent on any part. It is disgusting, and needs to be targetted.

[Dyst]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 11:26 PM
People think we are living in a secularised society, but religious influence still hinders the life of many without any consent on any part. It is disgusting, and needs to be targetted.
This certainly depends on which society you are talking about.

Some are far more secularised than others.

[Dark_outlook 06]

I believe suicide is fully justified under the correct circumstances and some people claim it&#39;s always cowardly but those are people that do not share the kinds of lives as suicidal people and also consider most are afraid to kill another person to kill yourself would take twice as much courage (based on how much you care about others) so to all you s.t.f.u

[TimeToDissent]

First of all suicide is a VERY sensitive topic especially to those who&#39;ve personally considered taking their own lives. Furthermore, I don&#39;t think those who&#39;ve not experienced the pain of radical self-loathing so much they would rather be dead should have any right to an opinion of this topic. To hate the pain of one&#39;s life so much that they feel the only solution would be to end it all, to despise waking up every morning realizing they&#39;re still living in this shit fucking world in their same weak, fragile body and mind - this is a very sad, sensitive, and powerful idea.

If an individual is experiencing severe depression and suicidal thinking the last thing we should do is condemn them as cowards to make them feel even worse. Its important to nurture the struggling individual to make them realize they are an important and valued human being to bring them out of the depression - I thought that&#39;s what communism and anarchism was all about damnit&#33;

[EwokUtopia]

ehh, suicide due to depression is tragic, as it is usually a depression that would pass given time. I would hate to end my life in a way where I deemed it too unbearible to exist any longer. Suicide due to extreme circumstances (ie terrible disease or nuclear war) is a different matter. If there is a horrible death that is inescapible, I would rather leave life on my own choosing, but only when hope has entirely left. Columbine-esque suicide is the cowards way out, yet i still find it tragic, and I feel sorry for those kids, whom society has beat into what they were when they died. Ultimately, humans are suicidal creatures, and rather than see the beauty that surrounds all things (Baraka) they wish to destroy all that does not benefit them, eventually leading them to their deaths. Nuclear suicide is the worst kind, an unforgivable crime commited by the few on "behalf" of the unwilling many.

[Face the music]

It is a matter of choice but sometimes it&#39;s not. A person very close to me already being a depressive (and somewhat suicidal streak running in the family already)was prescribed strong sleeping pills for insomnia - pills that cause depression and suicidal tendencies - into this somebody badly beaten him up, all in all, it&#39;s hard to say to which degree this choice was a conscious one.

[KalmKidd]

Originally posted by ThisAnarchistKillsNazis+Apr 19 2006, 10:10 PM--> (ThisAnarchistKillsNazis @ Apr 19 2006, 10:10 PM)
[email protected] 19 2006, 07:16 PM
suicide is the cowards way out, but the way the western world handles it is a little crazy. If someone goes that far and has serious pyschological problems, than that person should get some help fighting it, especially if its a comrade of ours
Why is it the coward&#39;s way out? Do you know the reason for every single suicide that has ever occurred? [/b]
i definetly agree with you.. he doesnt know why.. and its def nto cowards takes ALOT of power to end your life.

[Fawkes]

I have in the past had suicidal thoughts. I have A.D.D., am Bi-Polar, and Schizophrenic to a certain degree, I also have very violent fantasies sometimes. I had just recently been expelled from my school and had been given 75 hours of community service and had to pay &#036;4000 and I had suicidal thoughts, I have always hated those wealthy people who believe their lives are so terrible when there are people in this world who have to watch their own children die because they do not have the food to give them. I hated, people like me. I became suicidal when I began saying to myself that I am only a human, only an Amerikan, and therefore I am weak. I got out of it by saying to myself that I was stronger than those pathetic wrist-slitters crying over a lost girlfriend.

[C_Rasmussen]

I think its an ok thing to do if you can&#39;t deal with your depression but trust me its harder than Hell to make that decision because well obviously death is forever and theres no going back if you feel you made a mistake but then again you dont feel a thing.

[Tree_Hugger]

Originally posted by Freedom for [email protected] 3 2006, 12:22 AM
I have in the past had suicidal thoughts. I have A.D.D., am Bi-Polar, and Schizophrenic to a certain degree, I also have very violent fantasies sometimes. I had just recently been expelled from my school and had been given 75 hours of community service and had to pay &#036;4000 and I had suicidal thoughts, I have always hated those wealthy people who believe their lives are so terrible when there are people in this world who have to watch their own children die because they do not have the food to give them. I hated, people like me. I became suicidal when I began saying to myself that I am only a human, only an Amerikan, and therefore I am weak. I got out of it by saying to myself that I was stronger than those pathetic wrist-slitters crying over a lost girlfriend.

I have in the past had suicidal thoughts. I have A.D.D., am Bi-Polar, and Schizophrenic to a certain degree, I also have very violent fantasies sometimes. I had just recently been expelled from my school and had been given 75 hours of community service and had to pay &#036;4000 and I had suicidal thoughts, I have always hated those wealthy people who believe their lives are so terrible when there are people in this world who have to watch their own children die because they do not have the food to give them. I hated, people like me. I became suicidal when I began saying to myself that I am only a human, only an Amerikan, and therefore I am weak. I got out of it by saying to myself that I was stronger than those pathetic wrist-slitters crying over a lost girlfriend.

i feel like that a lot; i start to think about people who dont support gay marriage or people who are rascist and i get wicked depressed and then i start to think about how, even though i want to devote my life to making a change in the world, i really will be incapable of helping anyone or changing anything and the world will be consumed by hate and greed and suffering. i feel really depressed and suicidal a lot; i half-assedly tried to kill myself once, but i ended up just getting insanely sick and vomiting like crazy for a whole night. it gave me the opportunity to think about life and dieing, and i decided eventually that suicide was not for me. i still think about death often though. . . .

[Nicky Scarfo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 07:01 PM
suicide is the cowards way out
That&#39;s bullshit. How the fuck do you know why everyone commits suicide? How the fuck can you judge whether they are more cowardly than anyone else? You don&#39;t think any brave people have committed suicide? You don&#39;t think any cowardly people chose to live in the same circumstances others opted for suicide? You have no fucking idea about everyones&#39; motivations or thinking at the time they off themselves, nor do you have any idea about their characters. You are just making an incredibily broad and ignorant generalization.


“Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.”

I think that is often true, but not always, and that&#39;s largely based in a modern (post-Christian) Western cultural construct. The Stoics, for example, held that it was entirely permissible to commit suicide whenever a person discerned that their life was not fulfilling. The Japanese (and many, many other cultures) found suicide to be not just permissible, but desirable, when one had shamed themselves, their families or their nation.

Even in the modern West, we can find examples of people choosing suicide for reasons other than immediate suffering. Hunter S. Thompson is a good example. Although we don&#39;t know for sure why he did it, the most reasonable explanation is that as he aged he was developing medical conditions that would degenrate his body and mind, and eventually lead to a very poor quality of life, so he decided to kill himself while he was still in reasonably good condtion-- to avoid degenerating any further.

Then some people commit suicide to prove a point or to hurt someone else, or to avoid torture. I think the quote you posted is a good way to characterize many suicides, but not all.

[Le People]

It seems to me when one commits sucide, they are attempting to denounce there own life (at least in this exsistence). In the course of doing so, they recognize life as an obstacle, something to hop over. He or she must be councess of their being to exist. So really, when one commits sucide, they are only acting upon their present state of existence by attempting to bypass it. The inherent contradiction here is by recognizing and denouncing life as an entity and non-entity.

[Le People]

It seems to me when one commits sucide, they are attempting to denounce there own life (at least in this exsistence). In the course of doing so, they recognize life as an obstacle, something to hop over. He or she must be councess of their being to exist. So really, when one commits sucide, they are only acting upon their present state of existence by attempting to bypass it. The inherent contradiction here is by recognizing and denouncing life as an entity and non-entity.

[RevSouth]

I think one reason suicide is viewed the way it is is because it is.....unnatural. I don&#39;t think there have been any(?) or many cases of animals killing themselves. You don&#39;t hear about meerkats or elephants or beetles or jellyfish taking their own lives in disgust. The will to live drives living things, and humans are the only ones to routinely revoke that.

[Le People]

That is because we are more aware of our existence than the other animals.

[Marx_was_right&#33;]

Guerrillero


Group: Member
Posts: 281
Member No.: 15044
Joined: 15-April 06



What the fuck is cowardly about suicide, honestly? You&#39;re going to a place nobody knows, bringing along nothing and no one. You may be resigning yourself to an eternity of nothing, or perhaps pain. It takes intense pain to get there in most cases. Most people don&#39;t want anyone to kill themselves. Living life when you don&#39;t want to because a bunch of assholes think you should is far more cowardly.



There is no reason to kill yourself comrade&#33; If you&#39;re going to go, go out in style by fighting the Empire&#33;

[The Resistor]

Originally posted by lovechild of Kahlo and [email protected] 19 2006, 04:55 PM
Why do so many cultures, namely the Western one, condemn suicide. They deem it as cowardly, but I believe it would take several moments of deep rational thought that it would have the better outcome, and a considerable amount of courage to realise you will no longer exist, most possibly in any way at all.
Its all not important, i thought of suicide once because a was very despressed; its a battle inside you, thinking is it all worth it? Its the fault of society, the hartless world and thats got to change. Its not about how you see suicide, its why people do it. Its not about courage or cowardly, thats not where you are thinking about then. And why is it that western cultures deem it as cowardly? Simple thats how the society works in this cultur. The strong survive, the weak will suffer.....

[iloveatomickitten]

I can only speak for myself but having come very close to commiting suicide, I find it offensive when people refer to it as a cowards way out. Only though a sustained feeling of hoplessness did I come to the belief that my life would never improve, that is to get to get the point of taking your own life you have already suffered vastly. Suicide is the last resort not the first and cowardly way out.