Video Games and communism [Archive]

phragit

17th April 2006, 02:11

Recently a few a few freinds and myself got to talking about video games in a communist country. That got me to thinking on the following points.

a.)On what would video games be palyed?
Video Games would be played on a single machine, a computer. This would eliminate the need to send out new standard hardware every few years. This would also allow the developers to consistantly improve their games instead of a 2 years halt of improvements every 5. These computers would not have to be standardized, but completely upgradable and customizable even beyond todays standards. On top of that the games and system would be able to support everything from keyboards, to dance pads, to controllers, even as far as a Steal Battalion controller. Allowing for more original experiances.

b.) How would video games be distributed in a communist country.
Video games, as with all media, will be distributed freely via the internet. Internet access will also be free and fast, bandwidth will only be limited on how much is able to be sent out, in contrast to how much is paid to the isp. This would also prove more efficient to the nation, that would free up thousands of trucks and their drivers allowing for more production hours and more capability to ship required supplies, and since these trucks would likely not be used for anything else they would make an excellent medium to send needed materials to disaster areas, as to evade a Katrina esque disaster.

c.)The quailty of communist video games.
The quality would be exceptional, this is, of course, already proven by Tetris. The way it would be excellent is that since their is no need for a profit margin the developers would be given full creative control. Full creative control is somthing missing from todays corperate media, without such control Orsen Welles would not have been able to make Citizen Kane. The video game industry is in need of a Citizen Kane, it is nearing the age where Kane was released and still does not have an equivelant. Some may say the title belongs to Mario, but that was in the infancy of the industry, more of a Battleship Potekomin or Birth of a nation.

dislatino

17th April 2006, 02:19

Very interesting, a few points have grabbed my attention.

I would like to ask your opinion on "content" of a game, i ask this to see whether "complete freedom" is there to create whatever developers want. This has only been raised since i am quite concerned as maybe i'm sure many others out there about "explicit" violence and "pro-war" games.

phragit

17th April 2006, 02:24

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 01:28 AM
Very interesting, a few points have grabbed my attention.

I would like to ask your opinion on "content" of a game, i ask this to see whether "complete freedom" is there to create whatever developers want. This has only been raised since i am quite concerned as maybe i'm sure many others out there about "explicit" violence and "pro-war" games.
I wouldn't understand how one could impliment undertones to promote war or violence in non-linear media, I could see how that may need to be regulated as to avoid such a message, but not in video games. On top of that their could be a system created where a minor would have to secure the permission to download a game, rated for those of greater age than the party in question, by their parents

dislatino

17th April 2006, 02:41

On top of that their could be a system created where a minor would have to secure the permission to download a game, rated for those of greater age than the party in question, by their parents

Sounds good, But as we all know how lenient some parents are... :D

Distribution of games would come from the net as you previously said, does this mean then you are proposing to have games hooked to pc's or burned on to some sort of data storage and be simply hooked up to the console which i imagine would have been developed in such a way that it would work just fine.

OneBrickOneVoice

17th April 2006, 03:08

That sounds cool to get games via internet limewire style. What we could also do is sell them the same way to other countries and recieve a profit that could be used to create a new game.

Sacha

17th April 2006, 04:00

That is a very interesting idea. I think I would like a Communist world of videogames.

Speaking of Tetris however, I have an old computer verson of it which has the hammer and sickle on the box. It is the pride of my game collection.

Cheung Mo

17th April 2006, 05:11

Tetris is communist?

Tell me again who led the USSR when Tetris was developed? (Hint: He forned a social democratic party that nobody votes for.)

chimx

17th April 2006, 07:48

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 01:26 AM
Full creative control is somthing missing from todays corperate media
the new physx chips being made by ageia is pretty damn impressive. it is taking real time physics engines to new levels--making valve's hl2 physics look about as impressive as shitty 8-bit games like tetris.

LINK (http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1145088717/Playstation_3_Airtight_Physics_Demo)

Dark Exodus

17th April 2006, 09:31

The quality would be exceptional, this is, of course, already proven by Tetris. The way it would be excellent is that since their is no need for a profit margin the developers would be given full creative control.

I agree entirely, with no publishers games would be far better. Whats more there would be less unnecessary sequels/rushed expansions.

Developers often have to rush out games due to pressure from publishers who wan't an earlier release date for whatever reason (Christmas is a good example). EA games and Lucas Arts are probably some of the worst publishers because of this.

I'm not sure that I agree with your one-system solution though, there would probably be a portable version as well.

ÑóẊîöŉ

17th April 2006, 10:32

I would like to ask your opinion on "content" of a game, i ask this to see whether "complete freedom" is there to create whatever developers want. This has only been raised since i am quite concerned as maybe i'm sure many others out there about "explicit" violence and "pro-war" games.

I think the content of the games should be the concern of the developers, although obviously racist/sexist games would have their server DDOSed by a load of angry gamers. But even games which allow you to play as a capitalist or soldier should be allowed, unless you seriously believe those who play Medieval Tactics 2 want to bring back fuedalism.
As for video game violence, there is no proven link between video game violence and actual youth violence. If anything, youth violence has fallen in our video gaming age.

Sounds good, But as we all know how lenient some parents are...

And so they should be!

piet11111

17th April 2006, 10:59

well i think that there will be gigantic databanks with millions of GB's of data freely accesible to everyone.
games will be uploaded to such databanks and from there you can download them.
the games should work without cd's/dvd's and can be run directly after installing them.

computers themself will be upgraded every 2 years or so and the upgrades should come in 1 package that you can get from the local distribution center.

when it comes to games i think there wont be much regulation regarding violence as the poeple that get those games are smart enough to regulate themselves.
but for instance racist games will be forbidden because there are nazi games on the internet where you have some really fucked up shit going on :angry: those should never be tolerated.

but what i am curious about is if we should allow foreign non communist nations to access our new internet.
personally i think it would be best to leave them physically disconnected from our communist computer networks to prevent sabotage.
but we should create websites on the old internet to distribute information to foreign comrades but they should not be able to hack into our new network through these info sites.

dislatino

17th April 2006, 11:27

I think millions of TB's would be more feasible, lol.

As for the comment on Nazi gaming i agree, restrictions should be implemented, lightly i imagine...

Sabotage as much as i wouldn't like to imagine it, is always going to be inevitable, some of the strongest systems in the world get hacked by haters but yeh....

chimx

17th April 2006, 17:33

you guys are huge dorks.

Karl Marx's Camel

17th April 2006, 17:41

That sounds cool to get games via internet limewire style. What we could also do is sell them the same way to other countries and recieve a profit that could be used to create a new game.

Not only cool, but it saves materials. it helps saving the natural resources of the world.

And in a communist, or even socialist society, there would be no serial numbers, I think.

Black Dagger

17th April 2006, 17:49

Not only cool, but it saves materials. it helps saving the natural resources of the world.

And would involve a 'communist' society doing business with a capitalist one :blink:

dislatino

17th April 2006, 18:01

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 04:48 PM
you guys are huge dorks.
:lol: we are the dorks, so what does that make you for your atrocity of a comment?

It would be interesting that comment which black dagger made, i imagine there would be no need to negoitiate with capitalist buisnesses.

piet11111

17th April 2006, 18:45

Originally posted by dislatino+Apr 17 2006, 05:16 PM--> (dislatino @ Apr 17 2006, 05:16 PM)
[email protected] 17 2006, 04:48 PM
you guys are huge dorks.
:lol: we are the dorks, so what does that make you for your atrocity of a comment?

It would be interesting that comment which black dagger made, i imagine there would be no need to negoitiate with capitalist buisnesses. [/b]
yeah it would be awesome to be able to tell those hoodlums they can go screw themselves.

dislatino

17th April 2006, 19:04

yeah it would be awesome to be able to tell those hoodlums they can go screw themselves.

ditto that, how could distribution be controlled, as in people in society would be able to get a download, what happens if infiltration occurs from say an opposition trying to sabotage the program?

STI

17th April 2006, 19:39

but what i am curious about is if we should allow foreign non communist nations to access our new internet.

If folks living outside a communist society are able to access computer games (and any other information technology) from our internet sites, all the better! It will speed up technological development elsewhere, which will speed up the process leading up to proletarian revolution.

I also suspect that there will be a good number of people who choose to contribute to the communist society by being hackers and anti-hackers. Instead of being "criminals" like they are today, they could use their anti-security skillz to get their hands on whatever new information technology has been developed in the capitalist world and find ways to keep our vital information systems secure from outside threats while allowing the information to remain publicly-accessible. They could get anything, really, from the formulas necessary for the production of new drugs to the entire Rush discography.

What's more is that, once we get our hands on anything that can be put on the internet, it can and will be used by regular folks in the capitalist world - undermining the monopoly on technological development held by the bourgeoisie. In effect, it renders copyright laws and intellectual property rights meaningless.

The communist mode of production is just more suited to an advanced world than the capitalist one, plain and simple.

dislatino

17th April 2006, 19:59

You have raised some very interesting points especially that of anti-hackers and hackers, in a communist society i understand there would be no criminals or no justice prison systems which is not my main concern but of the capitalist society's rules, regulations and laws, would there be problems from taking from them, i am sure in a communist society a copyleft system would be the natural outcome of ree distribution.

Craig

18th April 2006, 00:12

I agree with whoever called you all a bunch of dorks.

(I mean that in the nicest, most respectful way.)

At least in the initial stages, I would assume that society's resources would be devoted to providing the basic necessities of life to the millions of people that live in abject poverty. High-tech entertainment for a bunch of Star Trek-watching nerds would probably not be a high priority (or any priority at all).

Save your breath if I offended you and you're about to launch into a impassioned defense of Star Trek-watching privileged white boys. I'm one, too.

Next, "communist society" is overly vague. If you're referring to a centrally controlled authoritarian government, then perhaps there would be a Ministry of Video Game Entertainment that would dictate gaming standards. But in a libertarian socialist or anarcho-communist or [insert your favorite flavor of leftwing economics here], I would expect to see more of the DIY system like we have on the net now, with individuals and arbitrary groups creating in a haphazard network.

Honestly though, I think that high production-value video games would go the way of the dinosaur after any true socialist revolution, as would expensive Hollywood movies and cola wars. It sort of silly and utopian the believe otherwise.

-Craig

Gottwald

18th April 2006, 01:39

Video games, as with all media, will be distributed freely via the internet. Internet access will also be free and fast, bandwidth will only be limited on how much is able to be sent out, in contrast to how much is paid to the isp.

That is a truly atrocious idea as the internet is a harmful tool for the petit-bourgeois suburban dwellers. Under socialism, there would be no private internet access. Internet access for free of charge will only be available in communal centers such as the library or in state-owned "net cafes".

Videogames, which would adhere to guidelines of socialist realism as in "Red Faction", would only be found in communal centers similarly to libraries and video arcades. If videogames cannot be a communal experience like at video arcades, then our children will be corpulent, indolent, anti-social slobs.

phragit

18th April 2006, 02:26

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 12:54 AM

Video games, as with all media, will be distributed freely via the internet. Internet access will also be free and fast, bandwidth will only be limited on how much is able to be sent out, in contrast to how much is paid to the isp.

That is a truly atrocious idea as the internet is a harmful tool for the petit-bourgeois suburban dwellers. Under socialism, there would be no private internet access. Internet access for free of charge will only be available in communal centers such as the library or in state-owned "net cafes".

Videogames, which would adhere to guidelines of socialist realism as in "Red Faction", would only be found in communal centers similarly to libraries and video arcades. If videogames cannot be a communal experience like at video arcades, then our children will be corpulent, indolent, anti-social slobs.
Believe it or not some people dont like leaving their house. In a mineral rich communist country home computers and free internet access would be a good and economically feasible option for the government.

Black Dagger

18th April 2006, 04:11

Under socialism, there would be no private internet access. Internet access for free of charge will only be available in communal centers such as the library or in state-owned "net cafes".

Yes boss!

What if the people want computers in their houses, and not in 'state-owned net-cafes'?

Zingu

18th April 2006, 05:19

black magick hustla

18th April 2006, 05:32

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 18 2006, 03:26 AM

Under socialism, there would be no private internet access. Internet access for free of charge will only be available in communal centers such as the library or in state-owned "net cafes".

Yes boss!

What if the people want computers in their houses, and not in 'state-owned net-cafes'?
not so fast chap.

computers and internet require people working a pretty significant amount of hours in a certain job. i don't think that in a post-revolutionary society, enough people will be willing to work in computer factories to give every person their own personal computer. frankly, i think that the mass production of computers and mass usage of internet are just "extras", and if we are going to have to do boring work, it will certainly be in more necessary things.

i think that given the amount of people to support in the world, the abolition of boring labor is impossible (however, many from the posleftism millieu believe the opposite). However, i am willing to try to reduce the amount of that kind of labor to a minimum. until factories are completely automatized, i dont think we will be seeing mass production of ipods in a post-revolutionary society.

its a shame because i like my ipod and my internet. :(

Leif

18th April 2006, 06:09

I love this conversation, however lets work on eraticating capitalism first, then we'll worry about video games.

STI

18th April 2006, 07:09

Originally posted by Marmot+--> (Marmot) i don't think that in a post-revolutionary society, enough people will be willing to work in computer factories to give every person their own personal computer.[/b]

That is a truly atrocious idea as the internet is a harmful tool for the petit-bourgeois suburban dwellers

These two points are ignoring the same important reality: it won't be long until enough computers have been created for everybody. The accesibility of computers will continue to increase as the computer manufacturers and software developers improve their means of production - their productive capabilities. By the time proletarian revolution roles around, it will be very uncommon for a working class person not to own an effective, reliable personal computer. This is increasingly becoming the case already, and as the demands of capitalism for an advanced working class with at least some degree of technological sopistication (the ability to open a word document in order to easily type and print something off) require the working class to adjust to those demands - which necessitates that they be able to aford regular access to computers and the internet.

Really, how many workers have no way of checking an e-mail adress or reading an internet forum without much hassle? A good majority - one that will continue to increase.

In the time frame we're talking here, computer software and hardware should be developed to the point that we won't shed any tears over having to withstand even a 20-year plateau in information and computer technology.

It really won't be any reason for anybody to go and work in a computer factory, so it won't matter if almost nobody wants to.

Marmot
frankly, i think that the mass production of computers and mass usage of internet are just "extras"

Not at all. A life as a member of the working class in advanced capitalism in the 21st century is increasingly requirng one to know how to use a computer with at least basic proficiency.

If videogames cannot be a communal experience like at video arcades, then our children will be corpulent, indolent, anti-social slobs.

That's ridiculous. Modern 10-to-25-year-olds in the advanced capitalist world have, by and large, been brought up with video games as a presence. This applies moreso to guys, but girls are becoming increasingly exposed to video games (as though it were a bad thing :P ). It's not as if we're a bunch of corpulent under-achievers. Most of us could out-produce our parents (and certainly our grandparents) when it comes to tasks involving computer skillz. Hardly slobbish.

ÑóẊîöŉ

18th April 2006, 10:52

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 12:54 AM

Video games, as with all media, will be distributed freely via the internet. Internet access will also be free and fast, bandwidth will only be limited on how much is able to be sent out, in contrast to how much is paid to the isp.

That is a truly atrocious idea as the internet is a harmful tool for the petit-bourgeois suburban dwellers.
I see your suburban petit-bourgeouisie and raise you a rural working class young man - me!

Under socialism, there would be no private internet access. Internet access for free of charge will only be available in communal centers such as the library or in state-owned "net cafes".

But what about, you know, freedom?

Videogames, which would adhere to guidelines of socialist realism as in "Red Faction", would only be found in communal centers similarly to libraries and video arcades. If videogames cannot be a communal experience like at video arcades, then our children will be corpulent, indolent, anti-social slobs.

Unsupported assertion.

black magick hustla

18th April 2006, 23:38

These two points are ignoring the same important reality: it won't be long until enough computers have been created for everybody.

You are ignoring the fact that most of the world is not "first world". It won't be until much later that billions of computers could be developed automatically.

The accesibility of computers will continue to increase as the computer manufacturers and software developers improve their means of production - their productive capabilities. By the time proletarian revolution roles around, it will be very uncommon for a working class person not to own an effective, reliable personal computer.

depends on the "working class" person. if he comes from US, sure yeah, however if he comes from one of the crap countries (which make most of the world) not really.

This is increasingly becoming the case already, and as the demands of capitalism for an advanced working class with at least some degree of technological sopistication (the ability to open a word document in order to easily type and print something off) require the working class to adjust to those demands - which necessitates that they be able to aford regular access to computers and the internet.

then, only certain people and specializations should have access to a personal computer. remember that computer manufacturing requires people working in factories. unless the means of production become completely automatized, i dont think people will be willing to manufacture computers for everyone.

depends on the circumstances though. Are the advanced communist countries going to help heavily third world countries? or are they going to isolate themselves and leave the third world be?

if the former one happens, then the first world is going to need to sacrifice alot of "secondary" stuff.

phragit

19th April 2006, 01:44

Originally posted by Marmot+Apr 18 2006, 04:47 AM--> (Marmot @ Apr 18 2006, 04:47 AM)
Black [email protected] 18 2006, 03:26 AM

Under socialism, there would be no private internet access. Internet access for free of charge will only be available in communal centers such as the library or in state-owned "net cafes".

Yes boss!

What if the people want computers in their houses, and not in 'state-owned net-cafes'?
not so fast chap.

computers and internet require people working a pretty significant amount of hours in a certain job. i don't think that in a post-revolutionary society, enough people will be willing to work in computer factories to give every person their own personal computer. Frankly, i think that the mass production of computers and mass usage of internet are just "extras", and if we are going to have to do boring work, it will certainly be in more necessary things.

i think that given the amount of people to support in the world, the abolition of boring labor is impossible (however, many from the posleftism millieu believe the opposite). However, i am willing to try to reduce the amount of that kind of labor to a minimum. until factories are completely automatized, i dont think we will be seeing mass production of ipods in a post-revolutionary society.

its a shame because i like my ipod and my internet. :( [/b]
I believe it would be essential to give free internet to all who want it, especially in urban areas, putting only several wifi antennas up around my city allowed fast internet access for nearly all 10,000 residents, though only those willing to pay. On top of that most residances have at least 2 computers, now all that would be need is a unified operating system, likely a mix of Windows, BSD, and OS X. After that all that would be needed is to integrate complete unification of technology into the 5 year plan.

piet11111

19th April 2006, 15:33

seeing how one single global revolution is implausible at best then we will end up with the first world country's becoming communist.

with this i think the chances are very good that we will be able to produce computers for everyone the moment the fighting has stopped and the factory's secured.
this ofcourse while producing the essentials at the same time.

the qestion regarding the other non-communist nations is a good one but we dont have an answer for that yet.
i think that it would be best if we limited our foreign aid to sending materials needed for survival (food & water and limited means of building self supplying settlements)
the last thing we need to do is provide african country's with the means to support their primitive society's indefinitly.

we need africa to advance through their current peasant society to capitalism and finally to communism.
the best impulse to advance unfortunatly is suffering until revolution happens.
if we send them everything they need or could ever want then we will probably end up freezing them in time and they will never advance (or advance extremely slowly)

STI

19th April 2006, 16:17

Originally posted by Marmot

You are ignoring the fact that most of the world is not "first world". It won't be until much later that billions of computers could be developed automatically.

It won't be until much later that today's "third/fourth/fifth world" will be experiencing their wave of proletarian revolutions, and by then they'll be producing their own computers.

depends on the "working class" person. if he comes from US, sure yeah, however if he comes from one of the crap countries (which make most of the world) not really.

By the time the crap countries (which won't be such crap by then) are ready for communism, they'll have a productive capacity per capita similar (probably higher) to that of today's advanced capitalist societies. They'll have their own computers by then anyway.

then, only certain people and specializations should have access to a personal computer

The thing is, in the modern world, pretty much everybody has a need for one. Having an effective, reliable computer makes life a breeze compared to not having one.

. remember that computer manufacturing requires people working in factories. unless the means of production become completely automatized, i dont think people will be willing to manufacture computers for everyone.

You've once again missed the fact that, by the time proletarian revolution rolls around, everybody will already have a computer!

Even then, I wouldn't be all too opposed to spending time working in a computer factory. I recognize the value in having computers for everybody, so I'd be willing to give up some of my time to make it happen.

Your argument could logically be applied to any form of labour - making communism an impossibility.

Black Dagger

20th April 2006, 09:03

computers and internet require people working a pretty significant amount of hours in a certain job. i don't think that in a post-revolutionary society, enough people will be willing to work in computer factories to give every person their own personal computer. frankly, i think that the mass production of computers and mass usage of internet are just "extras", and if we are going to have to do boring work, it will certainly be in more necessary things.

You have a point, but i really don't think it's a very forceful one. To build on what STI has already said, there are A LOT of computers that have exist in the world today, millions in fact, that are in the use of corporations, governments etc. as a part of the functions of those entities. That is millions of computers that will become 'free' after a revolution, you really think random corporation X is gonna need the 1000 computers they have on their whatever street office?

Regardless, western society (where i live) is at present moving quite quickly towards a time where most homes have a PC, not all, but the number is growing, and it's gonna keep growing, as is the number of corporate computers.

And isn't a lot of the labour involved in producing computers already mechanised?

i dont think we will be seeing mass production of ipods in a post-revolutionary society.

Ipods maybe, but PC's are important, and we're talking about PC's not ipods.

England Expects

22nd April 2006, 22:36

God, every thing is so perfect in the world of Tetris.

Just a series of perfect tetraminoes descending from the sky.

OneBrickOneVoice

23rd April 2006, 16:12

I think electronics will need to be mass produced because people will still want them. I think we could give some sort of incentive to workers who volunteer themselves to tedious factory work. For example more days off. This could be true with meat packing and garbage collector as well because not many people will find these type of jobs fun.

Fistful of Steel

23rd April 2006, 18:06

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 12:54 AM

Video games, as with all media, will be distributed freely via the internet. Internet access will also be free and fast, bandwidth will only be limited on how much is able to be sent out, in contrast to how much is paid to the isp.

That is a truly atrocious idea as the internet is a harmful tool for the petit-bourgeois suburban dwellers. Under socialism, there would be no private internet access. Internet access for free of charge will only be available in communal centers such as the library or in state-owned "net cafes".

Videogames, which would adhere to guidelines of socialist realism as in "Red Faction", would only be found in communal centers similarly to libraries and video arcades. If videogames cannot be a communal experience like at video arcades, then our children will be corpulent, indolent, anti-social slobs.
A limitless source of information that's very hard to monitor is a harmful tool for the petit-bourgeoise? I'm fairly certain that an uncensorable and collective source of information is a very good idea. And art is art, people can make it about whatever they want. It doesn't necessarily have to be about "socialist realism" and enforcing that upon artists is just stripping them of their freedom. (Although I love Red Faction.)

RevMARKSman

23rd April 2006, 20:50

Internet and computers should be readily available to the masses, not restricted to public places.
STI also has a good point. By the time this revolution gets going, there will already be enough computers for most of society to have one, and it would only be a few years more before everybody would, especially under communism where those who want everyone to have technology could work for it with no restrictions.
Video games should also be freely available, except for children under, say, 5 so that they don't choke on the plastic. :rolleyes:

MurderInc

24th April 2006, 21:33

Net Cafes versus Privacy:

You're worried about how the net will be accessed so that you can still spank it in the privacy of your homes.

HA! This proves that even in socialism there will be a man-oriented slant. Free Viagra and Rogane to all males!

Anyway, you boys are squandering a real opportunity here: Instead of insisting on a private place to jerk off, make it a public location, so you can sit next to women doing the same thing.

Net/Spank Cafe

piet11111

24th April 2006, 21:42

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 08:48 PM
Net Cafes versus Privacy:

You're worried about how the net will be accessed so that you can still spank it in the privacy of your homes.

HA! This proves that even in socialism there will be a man-oriented slant. Free Viagra and Rogane to all males!

Anyway, you boys are squandering a real opportunity here: Instead of insisting on a private place to jerk off, make it a public location, so you can sit next to women doing the same thing.

Net/Spank Cafe
why are you insisting on netcafe's ?

afraid you might have individuals plotting against your despotism ? :lol: