Pope Nazinger's Good Friday message loaded

[Cheung Mo]

http://www.catholic.org/international/inte...ry.php?id=19467 (http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=19467)

Here are some lowlights:


Lord,
we have lost our sense of sin!
Today a slick campaign of propaganda
is spreading an inane apologia of evil,
a senseless cult of Satan,
a mindless desire for transgression,
a dishonest and frivolous freedom,
exalting impulsiveness, immorality and selfishness
as if they were new heights of sophistication.
Lord Jesus,
open our eyes:
let us see the filth around us
and recognize it for what it is,
so that a single tear of sorrow
can restore us to purity of heart
and the breadth of true freedom.
Open our eyes,
Lord, Jesus!




Our arrogance, our violence, our injustices
all press down upon the body of Christ.
They weigh upon him ... and he falls a second time,
to show us the unbearable burden
of our sins.
But what is it that today, in particular,
strikes at Christ’s holy body?

Surely God is deeply pained
by the attack on the family.
Today we seem to be witnessing
a kind of anti-Genesis,
a counter-plan, a diabolical pride
aimed at eliminating the family.

There is a move to reinvent mankind,
to modify the very grammar of life
as planned and willed by God.[1]

But, to take God’s place, without being God,
is insane arrogance,
a risky and dangerous venture.

May Christ’s fall open our eyes
to see once more the beautiful face,
the true face, the holy face of the family.
The face of the family





Lord Jesus,
the family is one of God’s dreams
entrusted to humanity;
the family is a spark from Heaven
shared with all mankind:
the family is the cradle where we were born
and are constantly reborn in love.

Lord Jesus, enter our homes
and lead us in the song of life.
Rekindle the lamp of love
and make us feel the beauty
of being bound to one another
in an embrace of life:
a life warmed by God’s own breath,
the breath of the God who is Love.

Lord Jesus,
save the family,
and save life itself!

Lord Jesus,
save my own family,
save our families!


Fucking neo-Nazi papist freaks.

The good guys:

http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/04/041406pope.htm

[Horatii]

Look up Godwin's law, you might need to use it.

Last time I checked, the Pope wasn't carting millions of Jews to gas chambers and reigning destruction upon the free world, but he's Nazi in every sense of the word! LOL!

[patrickbeverley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 10:07 PM
Look up Godwin's law, you might need to use it.

Last time I checked, the Pope wasn't carting millions of Jews to gas chambers and reigning destruction upon the free world, but he's Nazi in every sense of the word! LOL!
Definition of Nazi: Anti-Semitic: Check. Authoritarian: Check. Homophobic: Fuckin' Check. He is a Nazi!

[RebelOutcast]

I'm sure nazism includes a pretty specific economic policy, does the pope have that?

[LSD]

Last time I checked, the Pope wasn't carting millions of Jews to gas chambers and reigning destruction upon the free world, but he's Nazi in every sense of the word! LOL!

No, he's only a Nazi in the sense that he was a member of the German National Socialist Party from 1941-1945.


Originally posted by Pope Benedict XVII
Today a slick campaign of propaganda
is spreading an inane apologia of evil,
a senseless cult of Satan,
a mindless desire for transgression,
a dishonest and frivolous freedom

You're damn right, Joey boy! :D

The world is turning away from your puritanical chastity and more and more of us are begining to taste "frivulous freedoms". And guess what? We like 'em!

Don't you just wish you still had the "inquisition" to back you up? :lol:

[Sentinel]

That sermon by the pope was the most outrageous, arrogant, and openly reactionary piece of bullshit I've heard in years. I'm astounded. I'd hope for someone to put him out of his misery, but I actually hope he'll live to see the proletarian revolution, because it would break his heart. :D


Originally posted by RebelOutcast+--> (RebelOutcast) I'm sure nazism includes a pretty specific economic policy, does the pope have that? [/b]
Well, he sits on a shitload of gold while his believers starve, much like Hitler lived a protected life while Germany was totally demolished.


LSD
The world is turning away from your puritanical chastity more and more of us are begining to taste "frivulous freedoms". And guess what? We like 'em!

Exactly my thought, the asshole is frightened! He understands that this is just the beginning.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by LSD
No, he's only a Nazi in the sense that he was a member of the German National Socialist Party from 1941-1945.

I think this claim needs at least two reputable sources...otherwise we'll look guilty of frivolous libel. :o

There is no question, of course, that even by Catholic "standards", he is extremely reactionary!

But a member "in good standing" of the NSDAP?

That would be a shocker!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[More Fire for the People]

RedStar: I remember reading on wikipedia a few months ago that Ratzinger was a member of Hitler Youth. But suddenly and "mysteriously" Ratzinger's father is an anti-nazi and Ratzinger had an euthanized cousin.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Apr 17 2006, 01:25 AM--> (redstar2000 @ Apr 17 2006, 01:25 AM) I think this claim needs at least two reputable sources...otherwise we'll look guilty of frivolous libel. :o [/b]


Wikipedia
Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth; membership was legally required after December 1936.[2] According to one of Ratzinger's biographers, the National Catholic Reporter correspondent John Allen, he was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of nazism, because he believed it was in conflict with their faith. In 1941 one of Ratzinger's cousins with Down's Syndrome was murdered by the Nazi regime. In 1943, when he was 16, Ratzinger was drafted with many of his classmates into the Luftwaffenhelfer programme. After his class was released from the Corps in September 1944, Ratzinger was put to work setting up anti-tank defences in the Hungarian border area of Austria in preparation for the expected Red Army offensive. He was eventually drafted into the German army at Munich to receive basic infantry training in the nearby town of Traunstein. His unit served at various posts around the city and was never sent to the front. Ratzinger was briefly interned in an Allied prisoner-of-war camp near Ulm and was repatriated on June 19, 1945. The family was reunited when his brother, Georg, returned after being repatriated from a prisoner-of-war camp in Italy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict...E2.80.931951.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Early_life_.281927.E2.80.931951. 29)

The reference given is Daniel J Wakin, "Turbulence on Campus in 60&#39;s Hardened Views of Future Pope," New York Times, April 24, 2005 (accessed June 8, 2005)....can&#39;t access it, but I suppose it counts as "reputable". <_<

[LSD]

Redstar, I was not aware that these facts were "controversial".

Ratzinger has himself admitted that he joined the Hitler-Jugend in 1941. As of 1927 all HJ members were de facto members of the NSDAP.

I don&#39;t recall any evidence that Ratzinger was ever in "good standing" with the party, but he was certainly not in especially bad standing, as he remained a loyal member until the end, even serving in the army.

Now, his reactionary positions tend to speak for themselves and his past is (probably) irrelevent.

But it&#39;s important to remind people of just where this guy got his first "taste" of power. "Godwin&#39;s law" doesn&#39;t apply when we&#39;re discussing actual Nazis&#33; :o

[redstar2000]

Well, here&#39;s the "problem" as I see it.

Joining the Nazi party was a conscious voluntary act by an adult.

Being enrolled in the Hitler Jugend was a form of conscription...the only escape being "Jewish" or physically/psychologically disabled.

What we would really need here is evidence that the future Pope was an enthusiastic member of the HJ...for example, was he promoted to a leadership position of any kind? Or selected for special training because of his demonstrated proficiency?

Ideally, we&#39;d have first-hand testimony from other Germans who served with "the rat-man" in the HJ. People who could actually tell us "he used to lead us in prayer to Hitler" OR "he hated it and was a total fuck-off".

Without that, all we can really say is that he was a draftee...and then, unless he could be linked to a specific atrocity, calling him a "Nazi" seems to me like that&#39;s "going too far".

Which doesn&#39;t mean, of course, that he wasn&#39;t a dickhead...but just not that kind of a dickhead.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[Horatii]

Thank you redstar, rational people are still present on this board.

[Cheung Mo]

Yes, because the Catholic Church just HATED the pro-Hitler forces in Croatia and Hungary. *rolls eyes*

[Horatii]

Yes, because the Catholic Church just HATED the pro-Hitler forces in Croatia and Hungary. *rolls eyes

Myth fronted by Jared Israel. While I enjoyed his articles about the Serb-Kosovo-Albania conflict, he made too many impossible correlations.

[VonClausewitz]

Did anyone care to strip away all the christ and God bits and see what the man was actually trying to say ? I&#39;m just curious of course. I managed to glean a disgust at general social decadence and the breakdown of the stable family unit. I failed to see any homophobia, racism or anti-semitism, or was that from earlier speeches ? (I don&#39;t have time to follow the pope around)

I had it on good faith from independant news that the pope was a member of the Hitler Youth just like almost all other young boys were - they had to be, or were enemies of the people or something, or their parents were. During the later stages of the war he apparently served as a part of an anti-aircraft battery in eastern europe, but his section never actually saw combat, on account of the majority of the army beating a hasty withdrawl away from the communists. Then he got all spiritual, and eventually ended up living in the Vatican City surrounded by odd men in jumpsuits with pikes....

[Horatii]

What they&#39;re doing is taking what he&#39;s FOR (traditional family) and through this, they take it that he&#39;s AGAINST everything else. Nazi-Against everything else.

[Black Dagger]

What they&#39;re doing is taking what he&#39;s FOR (traditional family) and through this, they take it that he&#39;s AGAINST everything else

Well the catholic conception of the &#39;traditional family&#39; is extremey hostile to queer people, as is the church, and of course the pope, do you deny this? So it make sense that when he talks about, or alludes to as it were, &#39;threats&#39; to the &#39;traditional family&#39;, queers are at the top end of that list, a long with feminists, divorcees&#39;, humanists, post-modernists and so on, it&#39;s quite a long list :lol:

"Today we seem to be witnessing
a kind of anti-Genesis,
a counter-plan, a diabolical pride
aimed at eliminating the family."

Gay pride/diabolical pride aimed at eliminating the family? But, it&#39;s hard to decipher his flowery, dramatic blabbering, so i suppose he could be talking about his picks for the Serie A next week :lol:

[piet11111]

yeah the hitler jugend was pretty much forced upon the boys (the girls had something different forgot the name)
but it was possible not to join if your parents objected but it was very bad for your social standing.
it also had an image of boy scouts and as such often thought to be harmless instead of ruthless political indoctrination (or a fore-front for military service)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

There is a move to reinvent mankind,
to modify the very grammar of life
as planned and willed by God.[1]

Ratty here is obviously talking about the genetic sciences. It&#39;s none of your business, you reactionary old turd&#33;


But, to take God’s place, without being God,
is insane arrogance,
a risky and dangerous venture.

How can one take the place of a deity without actually being a deity?

Either way, we can do much worse than "God" himself. We&#39;re capable of having different opinions unlike that monomaniacal Yahweh.


Lord Jesus,
save my own family,
save our families&#33;

Start with the "wonderful" families where the parents abuse their children, the husband beats the wife, the wife neglects the children, and the children hate each other.

Yeah, families are "perfect" [/sarcasm]

[Disciple of Prometheus]

Nazinger apparently hasn&#39;t left his ideology from back in his Hitler youth days, lol.


we have lost our sense of sin&#33;
Today a slick campaign of propaganda
is spreading an inane apologia of evil,
a senseless cult of Satan...

I guess I&#39;ve been doing my job well, :D .
Hail Satan&#33;

[Oh-Dae-Su]

i don&#39;t get it, you guys are probably all atheist, dont give a shit about the church, yet when the Pope makes a speech i didn&#39;t even hear about at all, it&#39;s big news? who cares what the pope says? the guy is like 70 + years old, plus he is a fucking deeply religious person, ask your own grandma or grandpa what he thinks on all of this and youll see the resemblance isn&#39;t so far off, youll be calling your own family NAZIS&#33;&#33; the fact is our generation is more tolerant, and it has gradually becomed as such, and it will keep on progressing to becoming even more tolerant....im personally an atheist, but i respect not really the "church", but it&#39;s ideology of doing the "good", i guess it&#39;s really a natural obligation of every human to live their life as such, but after all we are all humans, and although i dont give a shit about satan either, and im defenitaly not like Disciple of Prometheus, who is part of the "Church of Satan", lmao, i do also live my life with some of the ideologies of that, i find some of them kind of interesting, the belief in yourself, etc.. but anyways, Satan and just like everything else in the bible is fantasy, the bible is just a fable, but an educative fable in my mind, although iv never read it :lol: and never will, but either way guys don&#39;t mind the pope, like i said it&#39;s our generation that counts..

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Oh&#045;Dae&#045;Su
I respect not really the "church", but its ideology of doing the "good"

That&#39;s what&#39;s often in dispute here. Do churches "do the good"?

Or do they "do the bad"?

From a communist viewpoint, they almost always do the bad and, indeed, cannot help but "do the bad" because "bad" is what they are&#33;

And while I remain unconvinced that the rat-man is or was a Nazi, there&#39;s no question that the overwhelming majority of the German clergy -- Protestant and Catholic -- supported the Third Reich&#33;

As is well known, the Catholic Church smuggled prominent Nazis to Latin America after the war was over in order to avoid the war crimes tribunal.

There are many well-documented links between the Vatican and European fascism during the inter-war period as well as during World War II.

It is true that towards the end of the Nazi occupation of Italy, the Vatican did exert itself to save several thousand Jews in Rome...by literally hiding them in churches and monasteries.

But even this didn&#39;t happen until after Mussolini was removed from office and arrested...and the Red Army was rolling towards Berlin.

The documented record of the Catholic Church&#39;s relations with Nazism is about as "bad" as it gets&#33;

Only the Protestants did even worse.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[Disciple of Prometheus]

who cares what the pope says?

We don&#39;t care what he says per se, more of what he says, more of how we care about how it influences the public world-wide, and seeing how much influence he wields over his "flock," it is a concern to us godless people, who don&#39;t hold any political power; history can surely point to why we feel this way, i.e., the witch hunts for example.


i guess it&#39;s really a natural obligation of every human to live their life as such, but after all we are all humans

It is un-natural to be obliged to be altruistic, and be "good," that is a modern construct, because man&#39;s natural instinct is to survive, and that is in itself inherently selfish, or in religious terminology evil or unholy.

Evil is subjective, and only gives unintentional power to the person who is labeled it. The word evil unlike the word bad, gives of a subliminal fierceness and a sense power, not matter which context it is used. Which is mostly why when people say I am evil, I get a kick out of it, :D .

Anyone who acts in a selfish manner, and tries to suceeded by himself, and is concerned with one&#39;s own interests, they are instantly labeled unholy, and their behaviors are seen as evil, or at best misguided.

The only reason you feel the need to be "good," and sympathetic towards the "church," is because you are still following the christian, or herd mindset.


im defenitaly not like Disciple of Prometheus, who is part of the "Church of Satan",

Lol. Funny how any Atheist who claims to be an Atheist, but yet looks sympathetic towards christianity, and looks down upon Satanism, when Satanism is more of Atheism&#39;s friend, and is more closely related to Atheism than christianity will ever be.

Furthermore I am not a member of the Church of Satan, only because I am not old enough to apply for membership, as of yet; however I do plan to apply sometime in the future.

Also one does not have to be a member of the Church of Satan, to be a Satanist, the only requirements are that you believe, or more properly had a pre-existing belief in the Satanic philosophy as in the Satanic Bible, nor am I spokesperson for the Church of Satan.

Infact most people act like Satanists themselves, but are to afraid to call themselves what they really are.

[drain.you]

Even if he never committed to Nazism, being in the Hitler Youth must leave marks on a young child. Its like if you&#39;ve been brought up with the idea of free love and then put into a society of monogamy, sure you can adjust but you won&#39;t feel that its right if you&#39;ve been socialised into something else and what you&#39;ve been taught in your childhood will shine through.
Its not like catholicism and nazism are at opposite ends of any spectrum though.

[Horatii]

And while I remain unconvinced that the rat-man is or was a Nazi, there&#39;s no question that the overwhelming majority of the German clergy -- Protestant and Catholic -- supported the Third Reich&#33;

I encourage you to read some of Diedrich Bonhoffer&#39;s works, very insightful. As a protestant minister writing against Hitler, he was marginalized and persecuted. Later he began to ask the question "When can Christians kill?" and was eventually hung for plotting to overthrow and kill Hitler. Good stuff.


But even this didn&#39;t happen until after Mussolini was removed from office and arrested...and the Red Army was rolling towards Berlin.

Upon forming his "axis&#39; with Germany when he made the "Pact of Steel" with Hitler in May 1939 - Clearly the subordinate partner, Mussolini followed the Nazis in adopting a racial policy that led to persecution of the Jews and the creation of apartheid in the Italian empire. Before this, Jews were not specifically persecuted by Mussolini&#39;s government, and were permitted to be high members of the Party.


Only the Protestants did even worse.

Again I urge you to read some of Diedrich Bonhoffer&#39;s work.

[jaycee]

i would just like to say that while the popes views and speach are reactionary and seem to imply a great level of homophobia the view of most people on this forum is also reactionary or at least confused. While Marxists speak about the end of the family structure in its prsent form this is not what is happening, or at least not in the way meant by marxists and communists in general. The collapse of the family unit is part of a general decay of capitalism and a breaking up of social bonds, in its present form the destruction of the family means the increased atomisation and isolation of the individual becuase it is not replaced by any real community.

I also think that the modern day culture reflects in many ways the decedance of capitalism and its culture. This seems to be almost completely supported by most people on this board. While the answer is not what the Pope sees it as(and religion in general agrees) of repressing our desires and urges or abstaining from all drugs to live a &#39;pure&#39; life as they call it. However it is a fact that in all peroids of decadence one aspect of peoples behaviour is a general tendency towards empty hedonism and degredation. This is clearly an aspect of present day capitalist culture, howver communists seem scared to comment on this for fear of seeming moralistic .

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Horatii
I encourage you to read some of Diedrich Bonhoffer&#39;s works, very insightful. As a protestant minister writing against Hitler, he was marginalized and persecuted. Later he began to ask the question "When can Christians kill?" and was eventually hung for plotting to overthrow and kill Hitler. Good stuff.

The guy&#39;s name was actually Dietrich Bonhoeffer...and I am aware of him.

But consider these folks...

German Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Christians)

Bonhoeffer and his associates get a lot of "face time" in histories of the Third Reich...but the vast majority of German Protestants had "no problem" with Nazism and the "German Christians" were Nazis to all intents and purposes.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 03:24 PM
....but the vast majority of German Protestants had "no problem" with Nazism and the "German Christians" were Nazis to all intents and purposes.

If I&#39;m not mistaken, which I don&#39;t think I am, wasn&#39;t the majority of the SS Catholic? Because I&#39;m sure I read somewhere that one of the biggest controversies within the SS, was that Himmler wanted the rank and file to sleep around making more "Aryan babies" but the rank and file objected due to Christian "morality".

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by Armchair [email protected] 20 2006, 05:02 PM
If I&#39;m not mistaken, which I don&#39;t think I am, wasn&#39;t the majority of the SS Catholic? Because I&#39;m sure I read somewhere that one of the biggest controversies within the SS, was that Himmler wanted the rank and file to sleep around making more "Aryan babies" but the rank and file objected due to Christian "morality".
This I&#39;ve not heard before and sounds awfully dubious to me. After the outbreak of war the Waffen SS was a laregly multinational force in any case. I think it even had a Muslim division or regiment :huh:

[Horatii]

Bonhoeffer and his associates get a lot of "face time" in histories of the Third Reich...but the vast majority of German Protestants had "no problem" with Nazism and the "German Christians" were Nazis to all intents and purposes.

My mistake about the name; just trying to warn against grave generalizations.

[red team]

The church&#39;s credibility is shredded after what they have done. Not that they had much credibility with rational minded people in the first place.

Pedophile Priests (http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/PedophilePriests/main.asp)

[Sentinel]

Back on topic... Not everyone in the home town of the Ratzingers joined the &#39;unavoidable&#39; military:


Originally posted by Times Online
"Resistance was truly impossible," Georg Ratzinger said. "Before we were conscripted, one of our teachers said we should fight and become heroic Nazis and another told us not to worry as only one soldier in a thousand was killed. But neither of us ever used a rifle against the enemy.�"

Some locals in Traunstein, like Elizabeth Lohner, 84, whose brother-in-law was sent to Dachau as a conscientious objector, dismiss such suggestions. "It was possible to resist, and those people set an example for others," she said. "The Ratzingers were young and had made a different choice."

Link (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667,00.html)

[piet11111]

Originally posted by Armchair Socialism+Apr 20 2006, 05:02 PM--> (Armchair Socialism @ Apr 20 2006, 05:02 PM)
[email protected] 20 2006, 03:24 PM
....but the vast majority of German Protestants had "no problem" with Nazism and the "German Christians" were Nazis to all intents and purposes.

If I&#39;m not mistaken, which I don&#39;t think I am, wasn&#39;t the majority of the SS Catholic? Because I&#39;m sure I read somewhere that one of the biggest controversies within the SS, was that Himmler wanted the rank and file to sleep around making more "Aryan babies" but the rank and file objected due to Christian "morality". [/b]
project lebensborn conducted by specially selected SS members inorder to breed the next "pure" generation of "ubermenschen"

lebensborn did manage to deliver some children but the rest is simply unknown what happend to them.

so much time did i waste trying to understand nazism until i finally realised that there was nothing to understand as it came from insane minds.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by non&#045;decadent westerner+--> (non&#045;decadent westerner)
decadent westerner
If I&#39;m not mistaken, which I don&#39;t think I am, wasn&#39;t the majority of the SS Catholic? Because I&#39;m sure I read somewhere that one of the biggest controversies within the SS, was that Himmler wanted the rank and file to sleep around making more "Aryan babies" but the rank and file objected due to Christian "morality".
This I&#39;ve not heard before and sounds awfully dubious to me. After the outbreak of war the Waffen SS was a laregly multinational force in any case.[/b]

I&#39;m thinking of the German sections.

Anyway, I remembered earlier where it heard this....it&#39;s from a documentary on Himmler. So, it may not be accurate, but thanks to piet11111, I do have the name of the program....Lebensborn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn).

Now, been as the (heavily Catholic) rank and file of the German sections of the SS were being asked to sleep with multiple partners, and according to the documentary, Himmler was encouraging polygamy, I can well imagine Religious "moralism" got in the way of this as was claimed in the documentary.

They were perfectly happy to steal Polish children, but sleeping with multiple women was a "no no". :huh: