Collectivization

[Comrade Corinna]

When Stalin attempted to 'collectivize' farms in the Soviet Union, he murdered millions and they ended up starving.

My questions are... at what stage does collectivization occur, in the process to reach Communism. And what happens when people don't want to give up their property to the collective? Is there an alternative to the Stalinist method?

Would you support an alternative to revolutionary collectivization... like gradual socialist reform of the system?

[CCCPneubauten]

Good question, I was about the ask the same thing. Whenever Collectivization seems to happen it goes horrible. Planned economies never seem to do much good either...there has got to be some answers.

[redstar2000]

Modern capitalism eliminates the peasantry as a class. That's what "factory farms" are all about.

When the time comes for communist revolution, collectivizing agriculture will be no different than collectivizing any other modern industry.

So you can see that Stalin and Mao were premature...they tried to do something that can't be done in a backward economy except at gunpoint!

Castro was far more sensible on this issue. In a country full of peasants who demanded private ownership of land, he gave it to them.

And they still have it.

Which is why that even under the most adverse conditions, Cuba never had a famine.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Comrade Corinna+--> (Comrade Corinna)When Stalin attempted to 'collectivize' farms in the Soviet Union, he murdered millions and they ended up starving.[/b]

I get your point....but, putting a number on the deaths that resulted from the collectivisation, is, in my opinion, very hard.

I think the Russian climate was likely the major reason for food shortages and starvation....and the hostility of the Peasants certainly didn't help.

The Russian Government undoubtedly could have done better, but they're certainly not guilty of "millions" of deaths with regards collectivisation....their involvement in this matter, in my opinion, doesn't really even reach the levels of Corporate Manslaughter.

There were a lot of bad policies throughout the Soviet Unions existence, but I think the collectivisation wasn't a "biggie"....in many ways, it was absolutely necessary.


Originally posted by Comrade [email protected]
Is there an alternative to the Stalinist method?

I reckon it would be better to just give areas with lots of Peasants their "independence"....in other words, cut them adrift.

Goodbye North Wales! :lol:


redstar2000
Castro was far more sensible on this issue. In a country full of peasants who demanded private ownership of land, he gave it to them.

Interestingly, this happened in Poland as well....and it could well be one of the reasons for Solidarity.

There's an interesting account on a wikipedia talk-page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Solidarity#Clerical_reaction_braked_Poland_to _a_food_crisis_standstill) from a Hungarian fella'....if that account is accurate, then something like that may well happen in Cuba which has a similar arrangement with regards agriculture.

Certainly if Catholicism is as influential within the Cuban Peasantry as it was within Poland, then you know that's going to result in something bad. :(

[CCCPneubauten]

So are you saying that for collectivization to work it has to be done in a slow manner?

[Scars]

Actually Stalinist style collectivisation was highly successful in Bulgaria where it not only increased agricultural production but was also fairly popular with the agricultural workers.

I don't support Stalinist style collectivisations, I support the formation of semi-autonomous rural communes as the basic building block of rural communism, but collectivisation did not fail everywhere.

[Cult of Reason]

Was there not voluntary collectivisation among both workers and peasants in Spain?

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by RS
Castro was far more sensible on this issue. In a country full of peasants who demanded private ownership of land, he gave it to them.

And they still have it.

Which is why that even under the most adverse conditions, Cuba never had a famine.


Didn't Lenin do the same thing?...yes, he did.

[bolshevik butcher]

The POUM and CNT collectivised highly successfully but let peasants run collectives how they wanted to and collectivised how they wanted to. Collectivising at hte barrel of a gun doesnt work.

[Cult of Reason]

Indeed.

I think I should stop posting rhetorical questions. :lol: