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Janus
7th April 2006, 18:21
Originally posted by AP
For 2,000 years Judas has been reviled for betraying Jesus. Now a newly translated ancient document seeks to tell his side of the story.

The "Gospel of Judas" tells a far different tale from the four gospels in the New Testament. It portrays Judas as a favored disciple who was given special knowledge by Jesus — and who turned him in at Jesus' request.

"You will be cursed by the other generations — and you will come to rule over them," Jesus tells Judas in the document made public Thursday.

The text, one of several ancient documents found in the Egyptian desert in 1970, was preserved and translated by a team of scholars. It was made public in an English translation by the National Geographic Society.

Religious and lay readers alike will debate the meaning and truth of the manuscript.

But it does show the diversity of beliefs in early Christianity, said Marvin Meyer, professor of Bible studies at Chapman University in Orange, Calif.

The text, in the Coptic language, was dated to about the year 300 and is a copy of an earlier Greek version.

A "Gospel of Judas" was first mentioned around A.D. 180 by Bishop Irenaeus of Lyon, in what is now France. The bishop denounced the manuscript as heresy because it differed from mainstream Christianity. The actual text had been thought lost until this discovery.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton University, said, "The people who loved, circulated and wrote down these gospels did not think they were heretics."

Added Rev. Donald Senior, president of the Catholic Theological Union of Chicago: "Let a vigorous debate on the significance of this fascinating ancient text begin."

Senior expressed doubt that the new gospel will rival the New Testament, but he allowed that opinions are likely to vary.

Craig Evans, a professor at Acadia Divinity College in Nova Scotia, Canada, said New Testament explanations for Judas' betrayal range from money to the influence of Satan.

"Perhaps more now can be said," he commented. The document "implies that Judas only did what Jesus wanted him to do."

Christianity in the ancient world was much more diverse than it is now, with a number of gospels circulating in addition to the four that were finally collected into the New Testament, noted Bart Ehrman, chairman of religious studies at the University of North Carolina.

Eventually, one point of view prevailed and the others were declared heresy, he said, including the Gnostics who believed that salvation depended on secret knowledge that Jesus imparted, particularly to Judas.

In Cairo, the editor of the Coptic weekly "Watani," Youssef Sidhom, did not want to make an immediate judgment on the manuscript.

"However," he said, "this will not greatly affect the central belief that considers Judas as a traitor, but there is an old school of thought that says one should not persecute Judas because his role was to complete the prophecies. It seems that the new manuscript will support this point of view — that Judas' role was pivotal to completing the prophecies."

The newly translated document's text begins: "The secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot."

In a key passage Jesus tells Judas, "You will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me."

This indicates that Judas would help liberate the spiritual self by helping Jesus get rid of his physical flesh, the scholars said.

"Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom," Jesus says to Judas, singling him out for special status. "Look, you have been told everything. Lift up your eyes and look at the cloud and the light within it and the stars surrounding it. The star that leads the way is your star."

The text ends with Judas turning Jesus over to the high priests and does not include any mention of the crucifixion or resurrection.

National Geographic said the author believed that Judas Iscariot alone understood the true significance of Jesus' teachings. The author of the text is not named in the writings.

Discovered in 1970, the papyrus was kept in a safety deposit box for several years and began to deteriorate before conservators restored it. More than 1,000 pieces had to be reassembled.

The material will be donated to the Coptic museum in Cairo, Egypt, so it can be available to all scholars said Ted Waitt of the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery, which helped finance the restoration.

In addition to radio carbon dating, the manuscript was also authenticated through ink analysis, multispectral imaging, content and linguistic style and handwriting style, National Geographic reported.

mandangi
17th April 2006, 14:40
There are lot of lies written in bible. Read this website http://geocities.com/bible_fiction

fernando
17th April 2006, 14:55
I think you guys (and the followers of this book) are taking things a bit too serious. The Bible is probably the most (im)famous fairytale book to have ever been written in history and is nothing more than a set of stories...fiction which might be partly based on some truths but you shouldnt see the events of the Bible as pure fact and the absolute truth.

But dont you think Jesus was quite an arrogant git if it was true? "yes I want to die for everybody's sins since Im such a great guy and its my destiny bla bla"

chaval
17th April 2006, 20:13
read popes easter homily in response to this

chaval
17th April 2006, 20:13
read popes easter homily in response to this

cecikierk
17th April 2006, 22:45
Well, I find alot of problems in the Bible.

First of all, if God did not want Adam and Eve to eat the frobidden fruit, then God doesn't want human to have knowledge in the first place, right? But doesn't that sound like 18 century world where the rich didn't want the poor to have an education so they wouldn't know too much? Or 19 century anti-women's rightist who didn't want women to be educated for the same reason?

Second, The Bible permitted slavery even after the Hebrews were freed from slavery? Doesn't that sound hypocritical?

Third, in the Book of Judges, the Hebrews were instructed to literally wipeout the entire nations they wanted to conquer, and God instructed them to do so. Hmm... what kind of God would commit the the crime of genocide? Would Hague charge him for crime against humanity?

Fourth, not directly related to the Bible, but, alot of people these days talks about banning gay marriages, their (not-so-reasoning) reason is that it violated what it says on the Bible. If so, why are we allowing the sale of pork? (It is unclean, you know.)

Finally, something funny, pass it along to your friends.

Dear_______

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted fan,
_______

mandangi
22nd April 2006, 11:49
Recently i joined Andhra Pradesh Rationalist Association headed by Mr Penmetsa Subba Raju. We will educate people well against all religions, especially " the most idiotic religion christianity"

redstar2000
22nd April 2006, 20:58
Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 06:04 AM
Recently I joined Andhra Pradesh Rationalist Association headed by Mr Penmetsa Subba Raju. We will educate people well against all religions, especially "the most idiotic religion Christianity"
I warmly congratulate you on your decision and wish you well in your efforts! :)

Indeed, I have often urged other people on this board from "non-western" countries to do as you have done.

It may be a couple of hundred years before your work "pays off"...but what you are doing is of historic importance!

The masses free of superstition can work real miracles! :)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

chaval
23rd April 2006, 03:30
The masses free of superstition can work real miracles!

miracles are religious only. there is no such thing as a "real" miracle. in a communist society religion must be destroyed since it opresses the masses :angry:

the revolution will free the proletariat not only from the capitalist opressors but from the tyranny of superstition as you did say. :)

but then concepts of "miracles" will become archaic and there is no place for such talk in a communist society. miracles imply supernatural forces at work but everyone knows that everything can be explained through science (and if it cant then its just a matter of time)
:ph34r:

the proletariat will produce material goods not miracle goods! :lol: