Mao quote

[red_che]

I found this interesting quote from Mao:

"The Intelligentsia, as a special stratum of modern capitalist society, is characterized, by and large, precisely by individualism and incapacity for discipline."

Anyone who knew these people?

[wet blanket]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 03:24 AM
I found this interesting quote from Mao:

"The Intelligentsia, as a special stratum of modern capitalist society, is characterized, by and large, precisely by individualism and incapacity for discipline."

Anyone who knew these people?
Mao was one of them. :lol:

[red_che]

Yeah maybe, but he was of peasant descent, so how can he be considered an intelligentsia?

[wet blanket]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 03:37 AM
Yeah maybe, but he was of peasant descent, so how can he be considered an intelligentsia?
By fitting the definition:

Intelligentsia: intellectuals who form an artistic, social, or political vanguard or elite

[red_che]

Your definition is not intelligentsia. It is more a definition of intelligence. Intelligence and Intelligentsia are different though. :)

Intelligentsia is a class-based stratum.

Intelligence is brain-based knowledge. :huh:

[wet blanket]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 04:08 AM
Your definition is not intelligentsia. It is more a definition of intelligence. Intelligence and Intelligentsia are different though. :)

Intelligentsia is a class-based stratum.

Intelligence is brain-based knowledge. :huh:
That's something you'll have to take up with the folks at Mirriam Webster

http://m-w.com/dictionary/intelligentsia

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Mao
The Intelligentsia, as a special stratum of modern capitalist society, is characterized, by and large, precisely by individualism and incapacity for discipline.

It began life as a 19th century Polish word and was then adopted in Russia; our word intelligentsia is an English transliteration of the Russian.

Intelligentsia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligentsia)

It is not a Marxist "class" at all...though some anarchists think it is a "class for itself" -- usually calling it the "techno-managerial class".

Mao's statement reveals, of course, his simple annoyance with people who won't "shut up, dammit, and do what they're told".

He also instructed his followers "not to read too many books". :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Janus]

Mao went to a university in Changsha and sought to be a teacher. However, his dislike of intellectuals may have stemmed from the exclusion that he felt during the Society for the study of Marxism discussions because he was looked down upon as an assistant librarian.

[apathy maybe]

All should strive to further their knowledge and skills.

Read, discuss, learn, debate.

I am a university student. I am an intellectual. I admit to being part of an elite, an educated thinking elite. However, I admit into that elite anybody who is willing to think for themselves, and is willing to learn.

Revleft could be considered an elite; here are people who are intelligent (for the most part), educated or willing to be educated (again, for the most part).

The only thing wrong with an intellectual elite is that it does not include everybody. Educated people should be doing, educating others.

Intellectuals do not form a class of their own, I think using Marxist terminology, they would be placed in the petit-bourgeois.

Sorry for rambling.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by apathy maybe
I am a university student. I am an intellectual. I admit to being part of an elite, an educated thinking elite.

It may sound funny to pose the question this way, but is this "what you really think" or is this "what the university wants you to think"?

That is, it's in the obvious self-interest of universities to promote the idea that they "produce" people who are "educated" and "capable of thinking".

And there's some truth to that...but I frankly question how much.

Much of the information that was once only available in a university setting is now readily accessible on the internet. In addition, there has been an explosion of book-publishing targeted at ordinary people that purport to explain both the details of human history as well as cutting-edge science.

On the other side of the equation, in what sense can it be said that a person with a "Master's" in "Business Administration" or "Criminal Justice" thinks?

Their mental "horizon" strikes me as very narrow...almost as constrained as that of a medieval baron. I suspect that the kinds of things we discuss at RevLeft would be as incomprehensible to such people as if the entire board were written in Chinese!

The "old vision" of the university -- as providers of a "liberal education" -- is "withering away"...often to the bitter complaints of the "older generation" of professors. Now, universities are more and more concerned with "the bottom line" and what may be gained from closer associations with both the state apparatus and the largest corporations.

In such an atmosphere, critical thinking is a liability.

Some have even predicted that the "traditional campus-based university" is going to disappear.

There will only be "on-line" education for undergraduates and "Research Institutes" for those deemed capable of producing something marketable.

"Educated elite" may be a disappearing "social category".

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[anomaly]

Originally posted by apathy maybe
I admit to being part of an elite, an educated thinking elite.
I wouldn't call you an 'elitist' (you're an anarchist, after all), or even part of an 'elite'. An 'elite' are simply 'better' (or atleast the think they're better).

You know, some people in that 'educated, thinking' group think far differently than you do. And a lot of them are elitists.

Just because someone is educated, or smart, or wise, or whatever, does that make them better than anyone else? Because a true elitist would answer yes to that question.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Actually I've learned more stuff on my own, than from community college.

I really don't think knowing about poems will really help me with life.

[wet blanket]

I am a university student. I am an intellectual.
Don't flatter yourself. :lol: When terms like intelligentsia and intellectual are used, it's typically referring to tenured professors and folks whose names are followed by all sorts of acronyms. You know, people with a lot of influence in their field of specialization.


I admit to being part of an elite, an educated thinking elite. However, I admit into that elite anybody who is willing to think for themselves, and is willing to learn.
Revleft could be considered an elite; here are people who are intelligent (for the most part), educated or willing to be educated (again, for the most part).

This is actually pretty ridiculous. Suggesting that we're an elite here because we're critical of capitalist society is awfully arrogant and pretty stupid. Hopefully it's just a poor choice of words on your part.

[apathy maybe]

Umm...

Firstly redstar2000, I frankly don't know what the Uni wants me to think. I don't pay that much attention. And what anomaly says is making me think. But critical thinking should never be a liability. Critical thinking is one of the most important things coming from an education. It enables people to look at religion, politics and other every day bits of life and say, "bullshit, they are all lying".

anomaly: I am not an elitist. I am an anarchist, but I may well be part of an elite regardless. An elite is a group that are 'better' then the rest of a broader group. I am probably more educated then a lot of the rest of society, does that mean that I am part of an elite?

wet blanket: I may well be flattering my self :D
As to the other part of your post, it is not because we are critical of capitalism, but rather because we are generally educated (even if it is self educated). And then again it might be poor word choice on my part.

What is an elite?

[wet blanket]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 11 2006, 03:39 AM
Umm...
I am an anarchist, but I may well be part of an elite regardless. An elite is a group that are 'better' then the rest of a broader group. I am probably more educated then a lot of the rest of society, does that mean that I am part of an elite?

:lol: How's the view from up on that high-horse?

teasing aside, we really need to be both critical of not only society society but of ourselves and what we know(or think we do). Putting ourselves up on a pedestal as some sort of enlightened elite really tends to put people off. How do you think a trucker, steelworker, or machinist would feel if he/she heard some college kid talking about being an elite because he's so much more educated than the rest of society? It's not exactly a way to reach out to people.

Since we're talking about Mao in this topic, I think that his attacks on the intelligentsia and appeal to the common peasant were brilliant moves on his part despite the many fundamental flaws in his revolution and government.

[anomaly]

Originally posted by apathy maybe
I am part of an elite?
No, I don't think so.


What is an elite?
I would say it's either a group with power (the government, capitalists, are all socioeconomic elites), or a group that thinks it's just 'better' than everyone else. Well, you don't think that.

I'd just say you're educated. Leave it at that. :P

[apathy maybe]

Here I was thinking that elite were better then everyone else. They didn't have to think that they were.

Vanguardists are definitely elitist.

And yes we shouldn't talk about being better then everyone else. I know that I couldn't drive a truck very well (I can barely drive a car), and I am not able to play with steel or wood at all well.

I think that while for Mao attacking one part of society and appealing to another part was good, we should not try and divided society. I think we should try and appeal to all parts of society.

[anomaly]

Originally posted by apathy maybe
I think we should try and appeal to all parts of society.
I pretty much agree. There are certain limitations I see, of course. Can we ever really 'appeal' to the bourgeoisie? I don't think they want things to change at all!

But, currently, the anarchist message does appeal to some middle classers. And what's so 'bad' about that, eh?


Here I was thinking that elite were better then everyone else.
Be wary, comrade. My 'definitions' have been attacked in the past. :P

[Marxist]

the funny think is that Lenin , Marx and Pol Pot ( if he was communist or not that´s for a loooong discussion) studied at university. Pol Pot studied at Sorbona in France , i dont know where Marx and Lenin