Proof You Can't Be a Christian and a Revolutionary

[which doctor]

Some of you may know that I go to a Catholic high school. However, I am not religious at all. I was looking through a paper I got from religion class and I found this passage that I thought might be of use to some of you.

Romans
Chapter 13


1. Let everyone obey the authorities that are over him, for there is no authority except from God, and all authority that exists is established by God! 2. As a consequence, the man who opposes authority rebels against the ordinance of God; those who resist thus shall draw condemnation down upon themseves.

....


4. It is not without purpose that the ruler carries the sword; he is God's servant, to inflict avenging wrath upon the wrongdoer.

Here is an off topic note from the same hand out.

Ephesians
Chapter 5


22. Wives should be submissive to their husbands

And don't worry, I give the religion teacher hell at school. I hide all of his stuff around the class room. I throw paper at him. I took down the paintings in the classroom. I put chalk erasers and other trash in his hood without him noticing. I strike up debates with him.

[Jaden]

That would also justify divine monarchy for the religious.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 10:39 PM
That would also justify divine monarchy for the religious.
And prove that all power is christian power, yes including Hitler too.

[CLOCKWORK ORANGE]

Yeah you can't be a Christian and call yourself a communist. Jesus himself preached hate, sexism, and the death penalty.


Kill Gays:If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. Leviticus 20:13


Anyone who curses, kill em:Anyone who curses his father or mother shall be put to death. Levicticus 20:9


God punishing a guy by having his wives raped:Thus says the "LORD:" 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. 2 Samuel 12:11



Jesus, firm to keep the Laws and Rules of the Old Testament:Do not think that I have come to abolish the laws or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17

[Eleutherios]

Don't forget these verses:

Ephesians 6:5

Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Colossians 3:22

Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;

Titus 2:9-10

Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

1 Peter 2:18

Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Taken from http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/slavery.html

EDIT: Also, don't forget that according to the Bible, non-believers are to be stoned to death:

Originally posted by Deuteronomy 13:6-10
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God.

[which doctor]

I think if christians actually read and understood the bible, than they would stop believing the religion.

It's obvious that the ruling class created christianity a long time ago. I bet they would be shocked to find out that it's still around now, and even the rulers believe it.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Purely for arguments sake...seen as how there is a large atheistic bias here (myself included); this only accounts for those that take the bible litteraly, which is hard considering it is contradictory anyway. Some argue that such passages are mis-translations, or simply replications of society as it existed, and in our interpretation of the bible we should see through this.

After all it is the actions and beliefs as they are held, not as they are written that is important.

However yes, taking the bible litteraly would implicate reactionary behaviour, and should also lead to you being locked up for your own safety.

[amanondeathrow]

Some argue that such passages are mis-translations, or simply replications of society as it existed, and in our interpretation of the bible we should see through this.

Then why do they even bother with the bible at all?

If they think some of the passages are mistranslated, then who says that the passages they support have also not been misinterpreted.

They can still follow their moral rules with out using a book, they think has been partially mistranslated, to justify them.

[state's fiend]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 4 2006, 03:11 AM
Some of you may know that I go to a Catholic high school. However, I am not religious at all. I was looking through a paper I got from religion class and I found this passage that I thought might be of use to some of you.

Romans
Chapter 13


1. Let everyone obey the authorities that are over him, for there is no authority except from God, and all authority that exists is established by God! 2. As a consequence, the man who opposes authority rebels against the ordinance of God; those who resist thus shall draw condemnation down upon themseves.

....


4. It is not without purpose that the ruler carries the sword; he is God's servant, to inflict avenging wrath upon the wrongdoer.

Here is an off topic note from the same hand out.

Ephesians
Chapter 5


22. Wives should be submissive to their husbands

And don't worry, I give the religion teacher hell at school. I hide all of his stuff around the class room. I throw paper at him. I took down the paintings in the classroom. I put chalk erasers and other trash in his hood without him noticing. I strike up debates with him.
Well according to Dr. Noam Chomsky the Bible is probably the most genocidal book in the Western Canon. Check out 2nd Samuel, Chapter 24 where God killed 70,000 innocent Israelis because King David ordered a census. Examples like this abound throughout the Old Testament. All you have to do is read it.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl2.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl1.htm

[Eleutherios]

Some argue that such passages are mis-translations, or simply replications of society as it existed, and in our interpretation of the bible we should see through this.
Mistranslation can be a problem, which is why it is important to look at many different translations of the Bible when trying to find out a meaning of a verse. And even when we do, it's quite clear that servants (Bible-talk for "slave") are told to obey their masters, and Christ seems to have had no problem with this.

Even if it is simply a replication of society as it existed, it begs the question, why didn't Jesus do something about it? He could have easily stood up and condemned the institution of slavery, or the idea that wives should submit to their husbands in all affairs, or any of the other injustices promoted by the Bible. But he didn't.

After all it is the actions and beliefs as they are held, not as they are written that is important.
Right, but we have to discern their beliefs from the words they wrote. We can't just pick and choose which parts we think represent their "true beliefs". When they tell slaves multiple times to bow down to their slaveholders unquestioningly, we have to assume that's what they believed in.

[Nicky Scarfo]

I agree that the Bible is an inherently reactionary text and that the whole concept of Christianity is founded on hierarchical, conservative and fundamentally anti-democratic principles.

But in point of fact, there have been Christian Revolutionaries since the English Civil War and will continue to be. The Levellers and Diggers amassed armies to fight to the death for full suffrage, elimination of the ruling class and the creation of anarchist communes. Father Thomas J. Hagerty helped found the IWW and was excommunicated as a result of his activity. Jesuit priests sacrificed their lives in the fight for socialism in El Salvador, Colombia, Mexico-- all over Latin America. Which is a hell of a lot more than most of the keyboard commandos here have done or ever will do.