ClydeBarrow
3rd April 2006, 22:55
Hi,
My brother is a convinced egoist who advocates communism as a (the only) means to achieve total self-satisfaction.
However, I have a problem with this.
It's not that I think that self-indulgence and pleasure are bad. Far from it. I think that living for pleasure makes perfect sense.
But,
I think that the reasoning behind his sort of egoism is contradictory to Marxism. That is, egoism as a form of extreme individualism is a bourgeois concept rooted in the alienation of man from man (In part, at least, because any sort of individualism is bourgeois).
For example, Marx argues,
“Liberty is thus the right to do and perform anything that does not harm others. The limits within which each can act without harming others is determined by law ... This is the liberty of man viewed as an isolated monad, with drawn into himself. ... liberty as a right of man is not based on the association of man with man but rather on the separation of man from man. It is the right of this separation, the right of the limited individual limited to himself. The practical application of the right of liberty is the right of property. ... the right of self-interest. .... It lets every man find in other men not the realisation but rather the limitation of his own freedom. ... Thus none of the so-called rights of man goes beyond the egoistic man, the man withdrawn into himself, his private interest and his private choice, and separated from the community as a member of civil society ... The only bond between men is natural necessity, need and private interest, the maintenance of their property and egoistic persons.”
and
Human rights – the right to property, freedom of religion, etc., the rights which guarantee the concrete, real human being in their occupation, their beliefs, etc. – are founded on the separation of man from man, not on the relations or community of people, and are the foundation of bourgeois political economy.
(I got both of these quotes from: http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/...elp/ethics.htm) (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/help/ethics.htm))
Now, I know that Marx isn't arguing for any sort of Christian ascetism or self-denial, but rather, he views both egoism and "altruism" as fundamentally flawed concepts because they are based on the idea of man as an individual, rather than communal, being.
I know that Marx somewhere completely refutes, or at least argues against, Max Stirner's egoism.
I'd appreciate it if somebody could help explain these things to me:
1. Marx's understanding of man as a fundamentally communal being, rather than as a separate being. That is, his opposition to individualism (as a philosophical concept).
2. Marx's opposition to Stirner's egoism (Well, that would probably be explained if you answered the above, anyway)
Thanks in advance; this was longer than I meant it to be.
My brother is a convinced egoist who advocates communism as a (the only) means to achieve total self-satisfaction.
However, I have a problem with this.
It's not that I think that self-indulgence and pleasure are bad. Far from it. I think that living for pleasure makes perfect sense.
But,
I think that the reasoning behind his sort of egoism is contradictory to Marxism. That is, egoism as a form of extreme individualism is a bourgeois concept rooted in the alienation of man from man (In part, at least, because any sort of individualism is bourgeois).
For example, Marx argues,
“Liberty is thus the right to do and perform anything that does not harm others. The limits within which each can act without harming others is determined by law ... This is the liberty of man viewed as an isolated monad, with drawn into himself. ... liberty as a right of man is not based on the association of man with man but rather on the separation of man from man. It is the right of this separation, the right of the limited individual limited to himself. The practical application of the right of liberty is the right of property. ... the right of self-interest. .... It lets every man find in other men not the realisation but rather the limitation of his own freedom. ... Thus none of the so-called rights of man goes beyond the egoistic man, the man withdrawn into himself, his private interest and his private choice, and separated from the community as a member of civil society ... The only bond between men is natural necessity, need and private interest, the maintenance of their property and egoistic persons.”
and
Human rights – the right to property, freedom of religion, etc., the rights which guarantee the concrete, real human being in their occupation, their beliefs, etc. – are founded on the separation of man from man, not on the relations or community of people, and are the foundation of bourgeois political economy.
(I got both of these quotes from: http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/...elp/ethics.htm) (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/help/ethics.htm))
Now, I know that Marx isn't arguing for any sort of Christian ascetism or self-denial, but rather, he views both egoism and "altruism" as fundamentally flawed concepts because they are based on the idea of man as an individual, rather than communal, being.
I know that Marx somewhere completely refutes, or at least argues against, Max Stirner's egoism.
I'd appreciate it if somebody could help explain these things to me:
1. Marx's understanding of man as a fundamentally communal being, rather than as a separate being. That is, his opposition to individualism (as a philosophical concept).
2. Marx's opposition to Stirner's egoism (Well, that would probably be explained if you answered the above, anyway)
Thanks in advance; this was longer than I meant it to be.