Parental authority

[Ol' Dirty]

What do you people think of parental authority? Is it a good thing? If so, how much is enough? How would it work in a Socialist society? Are you a parent (if so, I applaud you :) )? If you are, how do you treat your kids?

Personally, I think that parents should love, teach and grow there kids, protect them, and let them make their own decisions as much as possible. In turn, kids would have more respect for parents.

[which doctor]

The traditional family would be absent in a communist society.

[redstar2000]

Try this...

Children's Liberation & Communist Society (http://www.redstar2000papers.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1082768760&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

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[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 12:04 AM
Personally, I think that parents should love, teach and grow there kids, protect them, and let them make their own decisions as much as possible. In turn, kids would have more respect for parents.
That's exactly how I feel.
However, when I speak out against the rarely criticized "family oppression" I get labelled anti-family, which I am not. I see families as one of the most beautiful things, a group of individuals looking out for each other.

But bourgeois morals interfere with their ideas that parents are to be strict with their children. People are raised being told that children must be taught with an iron fist.
I think that before anybody can change the world, they must change family relations-- after all, most people are influenced by their families.

[Axel1917]

The traditional family will not be around in communism. Kids will be able to openly criticize and learn things from many people.

[Everyday Anarchy]

I was raised by my biological parents, so my opinion may be biased... but I kind of prefer being with my biological parents. I think biological families should always be used first, yet giving children the freedom to leave.
Moving them around without them asking to be moved could cause problems and a feeling of not being wanted.


Also, I don't know much about psychology but isn't their a natural bond between parents and their children?

[which doctor]

The nurturing of the child would be done by the community as a whole.

[Abood]

I agree with Wonton_Soldier. However, that's not the case with my dad. He rules the family like Hitler ruled Germany - hating jews and commies. He's also very close-minded when it comes to religion and when I speak something against Islam he screams that "you believe everything you hear".

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Xero
Also, I don't know much about psychology but isn't there a natural bond between parents and their children?

There's some evidence to suggest that primates (of which we are one) seem to have a "built-in" preference for "small & cuddly"...both the young of our own species and that of other species as well.

We tend to "bond" with any person much younger than ourselves with whom we come into regular contact.

So it's not really a matter of "biological" parenthood but rather any child for whom we've assumed some kind of care-giving responsibility.

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[Ol' Dirty]

A beautifull article, redstar. I never really considered that, but it's a good idea.

[RaiseYourVoice]

There is a natural bond between a kid and his mother that cannot simply be cancelled. There is no way a society can completly replace the parents. you can leave more education to the society but sure not all

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by RaiseYaVoice
There is a natural bond between a kid and his mother that cannot simply be canceled.

If that were true, then how to explain the observed phenomenon of women abandoning their new-born infants?

It's a rare occurrence, but it does happen.

It's also known to happen that large hospitals sometimes make mistakes and new-borns are "switched"...yet the outcome remains the same. That is, the mother "thinks" the baby is "hers" and the infant "thinks" the woman is "his/her mother"...so they bond anyway, with no "natural" tie at all.

Finally, and I've seen this happen with my own eyes, some women have a genuine "gift" for "mothering" and other women are just awful at it. If there were some "natural rule" as you suggest, then how could that be?

What there seems to be is a "natural bond" between children and whoever takes care of them...and it starts to weaken as soon as children are old enough to interact with their peers and select their own "role models".

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[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by RS
It's also known to happen that large hospitals sometimes make mistakes and new-borns are "switched"...yet the outcome remains the same. That is, the mother "thinks" the baby is "hers" and the infant "thinks" the woman is "his/her mother"...so they bond anyway, with no "natural" tie at all.

Yes, and when they're older and find out they were switched they also have an automatic bond with their biological mother.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Marxism-Leninism+Apr 2 2006, 06:47 AM--> (Marxism-Leninism @ Apr 2 2006, 06:47 AM)
RS
It's also known to happen that large hospitals sometimes make mistakes and new-borns are "switched"...yet the outcome remains the same. That is, the mother "thinks" the baby is "hers" and the infant "thinks" the woman is "his/her mother"...so they bond anyway, with no "natural" tie at all.

Yes, and when they're older and find out they were switched they also have an automatic bond with their biological mother. [/b]
They think they have a bond because that's what the child think's they're supposed to feel.

[piet11111]

the thing that frustrates me about little children (age 1-6) is that they never ever listen when i say something will hurt them.
one kept jumping on the couch and fell off crying like the world is coming to an end while being warned time and time again.
then after being comforted by her mom she quickly went back to the couch watching some kiddy program and started jumping again.
she then fell again with her knee on the arm rest and again crying and then again the cycle of being comforted and again jumping on the couch (after half an hour or so)

her mom then hit her on her hand followed by the crying again but she did not jump on the couch for days.
but anyway what would be the correct way of dealing with kids like her without having to resort to err physical means of correction ?

[redstar2000]

Little kids put the law of gravity to considerable empirical testing...hitting them just encourages a false conception: don't jump when any big people are around.

The woman you describe does not sound like good "mommy material"...what she seems to want is for her six-year-old to behave like an adult.

That's not going to happen.

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[anomaly]

What is the actual material function of the family in bourgeois society? Well, essentially, families exist to provide for the children.

In communist society, the actual 'need' for 'providing' should disappear (with a free-access economy). So the traditional family will probably disappear with it. In essence, the commune itself, not just a few individuals, will become the child's 'family'.

[Revolution_89]

I think that there will always be a connection with your biological family. In my opinion, Parents should be around to lead the child on the right path. once the child is mature enough to think for him/her self they shouldn't be denied the right to explore different view points.

I dont think its safe to say that the children should be put on the same level of the parents because they need time to develope their own ideas and learn right from wrong. Once the children have reached a mature state of mind, then they should be put on the same level.

[Comrade Marcel]

I disagree with a few things from RS2K (I wish I had more time to discuss it) but I agree with a lot of it in theory but that applying socialist parenting is more difficult then simply allowing kids to do whatever.

It's like the cultural revolution, a bunch of teenagers with power can cause a lot of shit (yes, I'm admitting there was some mistakes of the CR).

Anyways, if people are interested in the Soviet model, they should read Makerenko for sure:

http://marxists.org/reference/archive/makarenko/

Specifically, "Parental Authority":

http://marxists.org/reference/archive/maka...ures/index.html (http://marxists.org/reference/archive/makarenko/works/lectures/index.html)

Also see Vygotsky:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/

There is also a great book written by an american called: Two Worlds of Childhood: U.S. and U.S.S.R. by Urie Bronfenbrenner.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067121238...glance&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671212389/002-5463487-9506423?v=glance&n=283155)

There is a lot of stuff by anarchists as well....

[Axel1917]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 02:27 AM
Little kids put the law of gravity to considerable empirical testing...hitting them just encourages a false conception: don't jump when any big people are around.

The woman you describe does not sound like good "mommy material"...what she seems to want is for her six-year-old to behave like an adult.

That's not going to happen.

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It is annoying to see how so many people do not understand this simple concept. Even B.F. Skinner, of whom had a good deal of stances that suit reactionary Bourgeois propagandistic interests, noted that punishment only temporarily suppresses misbheavior when the punishing agent is present. When the parents are gone, the kid can get away with quite a few things. I learned not to get caught from being punished, not why what I did was wrong, or anything like that.

[redstar2000]

A. S. Makarenko "sounds" very early 20th century.

He wants to bring up "orderly" children who "love their country", etc., etc.

Not very helpful. :lol:

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[drain.you]

Hey there,
I created a thread on this a while ago in 'theory', I've done a search and found it, so here it is if you care to read:

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...topic=42386&hl= (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=42386&hl=)

[Ariev]

Check this...
Crimethic's guide for dropping out (http://www.crimethinc.com/downloads/drop.html)

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 03:11 PM
A. S. Makarenko "sounds" very early 20th century.

He wants to bring up "orderly" children who "love their country", etc., etc.

Not very helpful. :lol:

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Well, his stuff is based on a nuc. family, monogamy, etc...

But this is what the majority of Russians wanted at that time.

I agree some of his stuff is a bit outdated, but his theories on development through play, and his ideas on discipline are good IMO.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 2 2006, 05:18 AM
I agree with Wonton_Soldier. However, that's not the case with my dad. He rules the family like Hitler ruled Germany - hating jews and commies. He's also very close-minded when it comes to religion and when I speak something against Islam he screams that "you believe everything you hear".
A little late, but...

My empathy, man :( . I find it angering when parents are closed minded. He must be (must have been?) a difficult human being to work with.