Israelis got tanks,Palestinians got rocks - A line from Tali

[Lardlad95]

What interests me is that we are dealing with the middle east through fighting Iraq.

If we really want to fix the middle east we need to Deal with the Palestinian israeli issue.


We have been showing favoritism since israel was made a country.


Iraq can't break UN resolutions, but Israel breaks more UN resolutions than Iraq and we aid them.

Ariel Sharon has more war crimes than saddam but we give him and isreal most of our foriegn aid.


Ariel Sharon can bulldoze entire Palestinian communities and leave a 2 year old palestinian girl homeless


but when Hussien tries to arm his country who do we fight?


here are two links

but search more for more info on Isreal breaking UN resolutions

http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?...ID=5278&TagID=2 (http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=5278&TagID=2)

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/02/EvStd100203.html

[Beccie]

Interesting observation. It really does show how fucked up American foreign policy is.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Commie01 on 12:41 am on Mar. 31, 2003
Interesting observation. It really does show how fucked up American foreign policy is.

Fucked up nothing

it's down right insane

[truthaddict11]

Israel is the only country in the middle east with nuclear weapons

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from truthaddict11 on 2:27 am on Mar. 31, 2003
Israel is the only country in the middle east with nuclear weapons


yes tis a damn shame

[Tasha]

the country in t he middle east that doesnt deserve the name of a country.

[Just Joe]

I'm sure your intentions are honourable lardlad. Do not take offence, but when you say:-

If we really want to fix the middle east we need to Deal with the Palestinian israeli issue.

It sounds to me like you think it is maybe Americas place to 'fix' the situation. As we've seen time and time again, fixing other countries problems leads to huge fuck ups.

Every country on the face of this earth has the right to deal with its own problems without outside interference. The United States' only obligation should be to end its military and financial support to Israel. They have no other obligation, other than to stay the fuck out of other countries affairs.

Let Palestine decide its own future.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Just Joe on 3:20 am on Mar. 31, 2003
I'm sure your intentions are honourable lardlad. Do not take offence, but when you say:-

If we really want to fix the middle east we need to Deal with the Palestinian israeli issue.

It sounds to me like you think it is maybe Americas place to 'fix' the situation. As we've seen time and time again, fixing other countries problems leads to huge fuck ups.

Every country on the face of this earth has the right to deal with its own problems without outside interference. The United States' only obligation should be to end its military and financial support to Israel. They have no other obligation, other than to stay the fuck out of other countries affairs.

Let Palestine decide its own future.


First off I do think the US should cut funding to ISrael


however the US is a big bully they play the "policemen of the world'

if they want to play this part then they need to do it right.


It is the job of the International OCmmunity to resolve this problem

[Just Joe]

There is no way to play the part 'right'. There is no right way of meddling in other countries affairs. What grounds does the US have to decide the future of Palestinian people? What possible justification do America have for poking there imperialist noses into a country on the other side of the world?

This is not the job of the international community. we have just seen what good the international community does with regards to Americas latest imperialist voyage. The international community does not have to live in bulldozed houses. The international community does not have to look over there shoulder for bombers everytime they want a coffee. This is up to the Arabs and Jews of Palestine to sort out.

again I don't want to seem out of line on this one. You seem like a good lad but I think you are way off when it comes to this.


(Edited by Just Joe at 3:39 am on Mar. 31, 2003)

[Zombie]

Let Palestine decide its own future.
just as Iraq, right now, is deciding on its own future...

I do think the US should cut funding to ISrael
impossible. The Israelis have too much investments in the Us right now, to stop funding them would mean economical and political suicide.

It is the job of the International Community to resolve this problem
the IC has already shown how weak it was in dealing with this issue ever since the first intfada broke out...

i'm sorry i cant elaborate more right now im too tired...

[Zombie]

What possible justification do America have for poking there imperialist noses into a country on the other side of the world?
the word to bring out here is IMPERIALIST. that's what imperials do, they stuff there nose in other populations' business! just like they always do in the ME!

This is up to the Arabs and Jews of Palestine to sort out.
remember Rabin? they shot him cos' he was so close to have a peace treaty with Arafat. THOSE DAYS ARE GONE. for the time being, don't expect them to sort their bloody war on their own, specially with Sharon! I'm not going for a US intervention, but u see my point.

and i don't wanna spoil anything for u lads, but what the US is doing right now in Iraq, will have a direct impact on the Palestine/Israel matter... just wait and see.

Zombie

[Pete]

America has threatened Syria, which, if they attack, will bring holy hell down on America and no doubt while the Empire is preoccupied the Arabs will also take down Israel. America has also threatened Iran.

[Zombie]

They're rewriting the Middle East's map. Thats what the Americans are doing.
Fuck liberty and that shit those cappies seem to talk so blindly about.
It's all in the map. Trust me, oil aside, they're restructuring the ME once and for all, to relieve Israel from the Palestinians, and to crush the Arab oppositions, thus making it more US friendly in the end. God knows what will happen to my country in all of this...
Shitty world.

[Lampros Kokkinos]

Don't live with dreamns.There will not be a Paliestinian free country as long the Israel has the authority from the USA to make whatever they want.Israel is the No1 ally for the USA's imperialistic plans and nothing will stop them.Nevertheless we shouldn.t stop fighting for a better tomorrow for all mankind.The dream of a socialistic society will never die as long as some people dream,fight and wish a better world.

Viva la revolution.The fighting will never stop.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Just Joe on 3:37 am on Mar. 31, 2003
There is no way to play the part 'right'. There is no right way of meddling in other countries affairs. What grounds does the US have to decide the future of Palestinian people? What possible justification do America have for poking there imperialist noses into a country on the other side of the world?

This is not the job of the international community. we have just seen what good the international community does with regards to Americas latest imperialist voyage. The international community does not have to live in bulldozed houses. The international community does not have to look over there shoulder for bombers everytime they want a coffee. This is up to the Arabs and Jews of Palestine to sort out.

again I don't want to seem out of line on this one. You seem like a good lad but I think you are way off when it comes to this.


(Edited by Just Joe at 3:39 am on Mar. 31, 2003)



No the one who is way off is you.


I think you assume that I'm okay with US imperialism


long answer short: I don't



i think you mistook this thread for saying what the the US should do when I meant it to take a shot at the US's hypocritical foriegn policy.


I was saying that the US supports a country which does the same things it claims Iraq does.


Now do we understand what lardlad was talking about?


Don't take shit so literal nexttime


there are underlying messeges in what I say


but watch out, next time it could be sarcasm, nexttime it could be a metaphor that I use


this time I took a shot at US foriegn policy, but if you looked on teh surface for that you failed, you gotta dig deep

next time bring a shovel

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Zombie on 3:38 am on Mar. 31, 2003
Let Palestine decide its own future.
just as Iraq, right now, is deciding on its own future...

I do think the US should cut funding to ISrael
impossible. The Israelis have too much investments in the Us right now, to stop funding them would mean economical and political suicide.

It is the job of the International Community to resolve this problem
the IC has already shown how weak it was in dealing with this issue ever since the first intfada broke out...

i'm sorry i cant elaborate more right now im too tired...



No the international community has shown they are a bunch of punks. Every last one of them. Even the ones who were strongly against the war didn't say all that much.

I have a question: Do you think the US is going to do shit to hundreds of nations armed against them?

Unless you somehow think the US has some type of diety on their side the answer is no.


The international community isn't weak


shit if CHina and Russia joined forces the US would get spanked.


but no no no no.


These nations are to big of punks to do anything about.

The UN has the power to do this but they don't. Why? because they are scared of a bully

[Lardlad95]

Enough is enough

Bush just gave Israel 1 billion dollars to fund their military.


This is starting to piss me off

[Zombie]

read my last post.

shit if China and Russia joined forces the US would get spanked.
i think u're the one living the fantasy (yes i read what u wrote after that) but china and russia could never get along. Even back in the 50s after the war, when they were both socialist countries pitted against the US, they couldn't get along . now that they've become more and more capitalist, i doubt that they'll want to attack the us, no matter what.
I read a piece written by Senghaas, and thats exactly what he tells us. After the WW, the capitalist countries are less and less engaged in military combat against each other. hence the lack of usage of force by france and germany and russia in the iraq issue. they all share the same economical interests in a way, they're intertwined in this great enterprise, and to attack one another the old fashion way wouldn't be of benefit to any of them. So France or Russia can say what they want about the war, i couldnt give a fuck, but theyll never dare attack the US as their interests would dictate otherwise.

The UN has the power to do this but they don't. Why? because they are scared of a bully
the UN doesnt have shit. it's a US institution, what do u expect it to do more in the Israeli/Palestine or Iraqi conflict??? its power is restricted by the Americans.

Bush just gave Israel 1 billion dollars to fund their military.
they've been giving them 3billion a year or so of funding. this isnt new they've been doing this for years.

Do you think the US is going to do shit to hundreds of nations armed against them?
Unless you somehow think the US has some type of diety on their side the answer is no.
i didnt understand

[Just Joe]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 12:48 pm on Mar. 31, 2003

Quote: from Just Joe on 3:37 am on Mar. 31, 2003
There is no way to play the part 'right'. There is no right way of meddling in other countries affairs. What grounds does the US have to decide the future of Palestinian people? What possible justification do America have for poking there imperialist noses into a country on the other side of the world?

This is not the job of the international community. we have just seen what good the international community does with regards to Americas latest imperialist voyage. The international community does not have to live in bulldozed houses. The international community does not have to look over there shoulder for bombers everytime they want a coffee. This is up to the Arabs and Jews of Palestine to sort out.

again I don't want to seem out of line on this one. You seem like a good lad but I think you are way off when it comes to this.


(Edited by Just Joe at 3:39 am on Mar. 31, 2003)



No the one who is way off is you.


I think you assume that I'm okay with US imperialism


long answer short: I don't



i think you mistook this thread for saying what the the US should do when I meant it to take a shot at the US's hypocritical foriegn policy.


I was saying that the US supports a country which does the same things it claims Iraq does.


Now do we understand what lardlad was talking about?


Don't take shit so literal nexttime


there are underlying messeges in what I say


but watch out, next time it could be sarcasm, nexttime it could be a metaphor that I use


this time I took a shot at US foriegn policy, but if you looked on teh surface for that you failed, you gotta dig deep

next time bring a shovel


Don't try to get clever on the other side of the world you little wanker. You fail miserably.

if you had meant to take a swipe at US foreign policy, you should have made it clear. The way it is, you tried to say The US should be supporting Palestine instead of Israel. Youre now backtracking. 3 quotes from you:-

If we really want to fix the middle east we need to Deal with the Palestinian israeli issue.

if they want to play this part then they need to do it right.

It is the job of the International OCmmunity to resolve this problem

If you wanted to display an underlying message, you should have said. There is no such thing as digging deeper on the internet. I can't see your facial or other expressions, I can only see what you type. When I come on here, I wanna debate normally, not with some moody little teen with an attitude, who gets the hump when someone points out the stupidity of his posts and tries to cover it up by appearing to be intellectual.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Just Joe on 7:04 pm on Mar. 31, 2003

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 12:48 pm on Mar. 31, 2003

Quote: from Just Joe on 3:37 am on Mar. 31, 2003
There is no way to play the part 'right'. There is no right way of meddling in other countries affairs. What grounds does the US have to decide the future of Palestinian people? What possible justification do America have for poking there imperialist noses into a country on the other side of the world?

This is not the job of the international community. we have just seen what good the international community does with regards to Americas latest imperialist voyage. The international community does not have to live in bulldozed houses. The international community does not have to look over there shoulder for bombers everytime they want a coffee. This is up to the Arabs and Jews of Palestine to sort out.

again I don't want to seem out of line on this one. You seem like a good lad but I think you are way off when it comes to this.


(Edited by Just Joe at 3:39 am on Mar. 31, 2003)



No the one who is way off is you.


I think you assume that I'm okay with US imperialism


long answer short: I don't



i think you mistook this thread for saying what the the US should do when I meant it to take a shot at the US's hypocritical foriegn policy.


I was saying that the US supports a country which does the same things it claims Iraq does.


Now do we understand what lardlad was talking about?


Don't take shit so literal nexttime


there are underlying messeges in what I say


but watch out, next time it could be sarcasm, nexttime it could be a metaphor that I use


this time I took a shot at US foriegn policy, but if you looked on teh surface for that you failed, you gotta dig deep

next time bring a shovel


Don't try to get clever on the other side of the world you little wanker. You fail miserably.

if you had meant to take a swipe at US foreign policy, you should have made it clear. The way it is, you tried to say The US should be supporting Palestine instead of Israel. Youre now backtracking. 3 quotes from you:-

If we really want to fix the middle east we need to Deal with the Palestinian israeli issue.

if they want to play this part then they need to do it right.

It is the job of the International OCmmunity to resolve this problem

If you wanted to display an underlying message, you should have said. There is no such thing as digging deeper on the internet. I can't see your facial or other expressions, I can only see what you type. When I come on here, I wanna debate normally, not with some moody little teen with an attitude, who gets the hump when someone points out the stupidity of his posts and tries to cover it up by appearing to be intellectual.

Let me get this straight...I'm the moody teen with an attitude and your the one attacking me as opposed to what I said?

And how does that make sense


It's not my fault that you didn't understand what I said now is it?

I went on to explain what I meant, you wanted to stay back on what you didn't understand because...well I don't know why you did that.

After I explained what I was saying you should have moved on to my next post instead of being stuck on something you misinterpreted

because there is no point in me explaining again something I explained before.


Question..in all of those quotes where did I state that we should switch funding from Israel to Palestine

so now you are incapable of reading what I didn't even try to give an underlying messege?


I was trying to say that there are problems in the MIddle east more important than Iraq.

I said it was the Job of the international community because this problem has been around for decades but all that has occured is death. No gain.


Do you know understand...or do you want me to break it up word by word.


Thats odd...because I've read posts on here in which people have been sarcastic, joking, trying to use a hidden messege and none of them had to come out and say...I'm joking

Authors create hidden messeges all the time

Read "On the Road" a short story by Langston hughes

there is an underlying messege there....but I didn't have to see Langston writing it and his facial expressions to get that messege.

I'm sorry if you over looked something but once again thats your fault not mine.


It's not my job to conform to how you want to debate.

If I was here to make it easier for you then I would just follow your posts around the board agreeing with every word you said.

But thats not what I'm here to do

"not with some moody little teen with an attitude, who gets the hump when someone points out the stupidity of his posts and tries to cover it up by appearing to be intellectual. "


2 things

1) Stupidity of my posts? You didn't even know what I meant.

Thats fine, but you can't claim to have pointed out anything if you didn't understand what I was saying.

I'm not saying you have to be some all knowing diety who knows what everyone means

but don't say that you did something when your replies were to something I dind't even mean



2) appear intellectual? It's evident that you have only talked to me on this board once.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Zombie on 2:13 pm on Mar. 31, 2003
read my last post.

shit if China and Russia joined forces the US would get spanked.
i think u're the one living the fantasy (yes i read what u wrote after that) but china and russia could never get along. Even back in the 50s after the war, when they were both socialist countries pitted against the US, they couldn't get along . now that they've become more and more capitalist, i doubt that they'll want to attack the us, no matter what.
I read a piece written by Senghaas, and thats exactly what he tells us. After the WW, the capitalist countries are less and less engaged in military combat against each other. hence the lack of usage of force by france and germany and russia in the iraq issue. they all share the same economical interests in a way, they're intertwined in this great enterprise, and to attack one another the old fashion way wouldn't be of benefit to any of them. So France or Russia can say what they want about the war, i couldnt give a fuck, but theyll never dare attack the US as their interests would dictate otherwise.

The UN has the power to do this but they don't. Why? because they are scared of a bully
the UN doesnt have shit. it's a US institution, what do u expect it to do more in the Israeli/Palestine or Iraqi conflict??? its power is restricted by the Americans.

Bush just gave Israel 1 billion dollars to fund their military.
they've been giving them 3billion a year or so of funding. this isnt new they've been doing this for years.

Do you think the US is going to do shit to hundreds of nations armed against them?
Unless you somehow think the US has some type of diety on their side the answer is no.
i didnt understand



The China russia thing was hypothetical.

Is it likely that they would Unite against the US? No


but if they did they have enough fire power to take the US out

Thats assuming that their attack strategy didn't have some gigantic flaw in it.



The UN has hundreds of countries which united could stand up to the US

now I know what I propose is very unlikely

however the UN has more power than they think.

the problem is they are spineless.

Oh I know they give Israel 2 billion

I meant he gave them and extra 1 this year

sorry for not clarifying

Disregard the last statement in the post you quoted I answered that above

[Just Joe]

Let me get this straight...I'm the moody teen with an attitude and your the one attacking me as opposed to what I said?

I responded to these childish, supposedly patronising remarks like:-

No the one who is way off is you.

Now do we understand what lardlad was talking about?


Don't take shit so literal nexttime

next time bring a shovel

Especially as I had gone out of my way to be couteous to you. If you were AK-47 posting, I would have waded in with flames. I thought, looking at some of your other posts, that you were OK, so I kept the confrontation to a minimum even though I disagreed with you a hell of a lot.

It's not my fault that you didn't understand what I said now is it?

I did understand what you said. And you know it. The problem was, that after I pointed out the problems in youre opinion, you backtracked and claimed I didn't understand you. The quotes are there in plain English. You want the international community to sort out the problem, you think America should play the world policeman right. You want nations other than those involved to sort out this problem.

I was trying to say that there are problems in the MIddle east more important than Iraq.

The main part I disagreed with was your theory on who should handle this matter. If you had an underlying message in this quote:-

It is the job of the International OCmmunity to resolve this problem

I'd suggest you need to start posting what you think, not what you want to convey as a hidden agenda.

I said it was the Job of the international community because this problem has been around for decades but all that has occured is death. No gain.

The problem is around because of Imperialism. Do you think UN imperialism is any different that US imperialism? Just because the international community wants it to happen, does that make it right? Let the Arabs and Jews sort out there own troubles for the first time since Israel was created.

Thats odd...because I've read posts on here in which people have been sarcastic, joking, trying to use a hidden messege and none of them had to come out and say...I'm joking

Thats because YOU weren't. You were serious about replacing US imperialism with UN imperialism. You just tried to gloss over it by sounding clever; saying there was a message behind what you were saying when in actual fact, you just got it wrong.

Authors create hidden messeges all the time

Read "On the Road" a short story by Langston hughes

there is an underlying messege there....but I didn't have to see Langston writing it and his facial expressions to get that messege.

Maybe because he is writing a book, not posting on a politics forum. If you have something to say, say it, don't dance around the subject without giving your real view.

appear intellectual? It's evident that you have only talked to me on this board once.

I've read a lot of youre posts. I thought you seems OK. You may still be OK. But you are wrong on this issue.

(Edited by Just Joe at 1:43 pm on April 2, 2003)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Just Joe on 1:41 pm on April 2, 2003
Let me get this straight...I'm the moody teen with an attitude and your the one attacking me as opposed to what I said?

I responded to these childish, supposedly patronising remarks like:-

No the one who is way off is you.

Now do we understand what lardlad was talking about?


Don't take shit so literal nexttime

next time bring a shovel

Especially as I had gone out of my way to be couteous to you. If you were AK-47 posting, I would have waded in with flames. I thought, looking at some of your other posts, that you were OK, so I kept the confrontation to a minimum even though I disagreed with you a hell of a lot.

It's not my fault that you didn't understand what I said now is it?

I did understand what you said. And you know it. The problem was, that after I pointed out the problems in youre opinion, you backtracked and claimed I didn't understand you. The quotes are there in plain English. You want the international community to sort out the problem, you think America should play the world policeman right. You want nations other than those involved to sort out this problem.

I was trying to say that there are problems in the MIddle east more important than Iraq.

The main part I disagreed with was your theory on who should handle this matter. If you had an underlying message in this quote:-

It is the job of the International OCmmunity to resolve this problem

I'd suggest you need to start posting what you think, not what you want to convey as a hidden agenda.

I said it was the Job of the international community because this problem has been around for decades but all that has occured is death. No gain.

The problem is around because of Imperialism. Do you think UN imperialism is any different that US imperialism? Just because the international community wants it to happen, does that make it right? Let the Arabs and Jews sort out there own troubles for the first time since Israel was created.

Thats odd...because I've read posts on here in which people have been sarcastic, joking, trying to use a hidden messege and none of them had to come out and say...I'm joking

Thats because YOU weren't. You were serious about replacing US imperialism with UN imperialism. You just tried to gloss over it by sounding clever; saying there was a message behind what you were saying when in actual fact, you just got it wrong.

Authors create hidden messeges all the time

Read "On the Road" a short story by Langston hughes

there is an underlying messege there....but I didn't have to see Langston writing it and his facial expressions to get that messege.

Maybe because he is writing a book, not posting on a politics forum. If you have something to say, say it, don't dance around the subject without giving your real view.

appear intellectual? It's evident that you have only talked to me on this board once.

I've read a lot of youre posts. I thought you seems OK. You may still be OK. But you are wrong on this issue.

(Edited by Just Joe at 1:43 pm on April 2, 2003)



By attacking me I meant personal insults. Sir that is no way to debate.

Callin me a moody, a little wanker?

If you are going to debate then do so. THis is a match of intellect not a match of insults.

Please refrain from those.


So your telling me that you've never had to clarify something to someone?


If I say that I'm going to go get a hotdog...and you say why would you want to go get a hamburger


Wouldn't it be right of me to point out to you that I said hotdog and not hamburger?

Thats what I was doing. I was pointing out where you misintepreted me.



Let me clear this up one more time.


Yes I said it's teh job of the INternational community.


but if you think I meant the US should be the policemen of the world then your more lost than I thought.


I wouldn't be allowed to post in Politics if I did. I'd only be allowed in OI

but as you can read I'm a mod in Politics so you've got something mixed up.



The problem is around because of Imperialism....no the problem is around because there should be a Palestinian homeland.

US imperialism only adds fuel to the fire.

They didn't start the fire, theya re just making it even bigger.


What UN imperialism?

How can it be imperialist when they are made up of different nations?


Pronunciation: im-'pir-E-&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
Date: 1845

1 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence <union imperialism>



These different nations share no common gain.

Question if Israel is part of the UN and they don't want this...what are they gaining from a Palestinian homeland?

The job of the international community is to resolve this, I didn't say to go in there and force people to do what they wnat.

But they should make an attempt to solve it.



I have a question.....are you in my head right now?


Can you read minds? Are you all powerful?

If you answered the following questions know, how are you going to tell me what I meant?


You could not believe me...fine I'm not gonna force you to.

But how can you honestly claim to know what I mean?

[Just Joe]

I think we should agree to disagree on our seperate interpretations of youre first statements, and go onto the Israel-Palestine situation.

There will still be bloodshed even when a Palestinian state is created. Israel should not exist; it is a racial state with no legitimacy in my, or in Arabs, eyes. Jews have a right to live there like anyone else, but as Palestinian Jews, not Israelites. Hamas and PFLP will still attack while Israel exists. Israel will then invade this Palestinian state and we will be back to square one.

The UN can be imperialist just like the US. International law cannot simply be mob rule; we can't just let something be just because the majority of nations are for it. Brazil and China don't have a right to decide what happens in Palestine. they don't have to live there. What happens in Palestine is up to Jews and Arabs to sort out. Thats something that has not been let happen since Israel was founded.

[Blasphemy]

Just Joe, the solution is not the destruction of israel. if you think this is the solution it shows that you do not fully comprehend zionism. when jews started coming to israel at the end of the 19th century, and then after WWI, they didn't say to themselves "let's fuck the palestinians". they came out of national aspirations to build a jewish homeland. after the holocaust more and more started coming to israel to build the jewish homeland. these national aspirations came because the jews have been a stateless minority throughout history. you can't turn the wheel back now, and let the jewish people in israel be a minority again. the solution to the conflict is to reach a compromise, in which both the palestinians and the jewish people will have a homeland of their own. but each state will not be strictly jewish, or strictly palestinians. jews will be allowed to live in palestine, and palestinians will be allowed to live in israel, like a lot of them do now.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Just Joe on 11:25 pm on April 3, 2003
I think we should agree to disagree on our seperate interpretations of youre first statements, and go onto the Israel-Palestine situation.

There will still be bloodshed even when a Palestinian state is created. Israel should not exist; it is a racial state with no legitimacy in my, or in Arabs, eyes. Jews have a right to live there like anyone else, but as Palestinian Jews, not Israelites. Hamas and PFLP will still attack while Israel exists. Israel will then invade this Palestinian state and we will be back to square one.

The UN can be imperialist just like the US. International law cannot simply be mob rule; we can't just let something be just because the majority of nations are for it. Brazil and China don't have a right to decide what happens in Palestine. they don't have to live there. What happens in Palestine is up to Jews and Arabs to sort out. Thats something that has not been let happen since Israel was founded.


I'll agree to disagree.


I think that the INternational community does have some ressponsibility.

They shouldn't force any nation to do what it does not

but the least they can do is moderate the situation.
I don't have to force you to do something to get you to calm down and hear the other person out.


The most the UN should do is try and get this issue resolved, not through imperialism but by trying to moderate the situation

Israel should still exist, there is no point in getting rid of it, basicaly thats just doing the same thing that we have now only now Israeli homes are bulldozed and destroyed.

I am against zionism, however the country has a right to exist.

what we should do is make sure that these two nations can live with one another.

They don't have to be allies but they don't have to be enemies either

[Just Joe]

To Blasphemy, I hope you don't think I'm being rude here, but I don't see a point in debating with you. As an Israeli Zionist, we are so far apart we will never agree. Its the same reason I don't debate with Loyalists in the six; lost cause.

Lardlad, you can't be against Zionism and for an Israeli state. Thats a contradiction in terms. Israel is a Zionist creation. It is a racial state and has no right to exist. Palestine is the country that occupies that land and it should have equal rights for Arabs and Jews. Arabs should not rule over Jews and not the other way round.

I think the Iraq crisis has shown the incompetancy of the UN. Theres no need for them to get involved here. Every time the UN has moved in favour of Palestine, the US has vetoed it. The UN is a spent force. I'd be suprised of it sees out the decade.

(Edited by Just Joe at 9:48 pm on April 4, 2003)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Just Joe on 9:47 pm on April 4, 2003
To Blasphemy, I hope you don't think I'm being rude here, but I don't see a point in debating with you. As an Israeli Zionist, we are so far apart we will never agree. Its the same reason I don't debate with Loyalists in the six; lost cause.

Lardlad, you can't be against Zionism and for an Israeli state. Thats a contradiction in terms. Israel is a Zionist creation. It is a racial state and has no right to exist. Palestine is the country that occupies that land and it should have equal rights for Arabs and Jews. Arabs should not rule over Jews and not the other way round.

I think the Iraq crisis has shown the incompetancy of the UN. Theres no need for them to get involved here. Every time the UN has moved in favour of Palestine, the US has vetoed it. The UN is a spent force. I'd be suprised of it sees out the decade.

(Edited by Just Joe at 9:48 pm on April 4, 2003)



I'm against the Zionist belief that the Jews some how deserve that land over others.

However it's already a country and I see no reason to turn over the entire thing to teh palestinians


two things can occur

either they share the country, or a new Palestinian nation is formed


The UN has untapped power and they need to stop buckling to the US every damn the US disagrees