Drugs and TV

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Drugs are better than television.

A split by EM

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 02:24 AM
Drugs are better than television.
They both generally waste your time, intellect and likely your money too.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by 313C7 iVi4RX+Mar 28 2006, 05:45 PM--> (313C7 iVi4RX @ Mar 28 2006, 05:45 PM)
[email protected] 28 2006, 02:24 AM
Drugs are better than television.
They both generally waste your time, intellect and likely your money too. [/b]
I disagree. It's much more interesting to sit with friends, allowing drugs to steer the conversation into previously unexplored territory, than it is to sit in front of the dullard box watching some overpaid celebrities or complete nobodies.
Wasted intellect? give me a break. Even if you can afford satellite or digital, most TV programmes are complete mind-rot. And I would rather pay the occasional £20 for an eightth of weed than be forced to pay £120 a year simply for owning a damn television.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by NoXion+Mar 28 2006, 02:27 PM--> (NoXion @ Mar 28 2006, 02:27 PM)
Originally posted by 313C7 [email protected] 28 2006, 05:45 PM

[email protected] 28 2006, 02:24 AM
Drugs are better than television.
They both generally waste your time, intellect and likely your money too.
I disagree. It's much more interesting to sit with friends, allowing drugs to steer the conversation into previously unexplored territory, than it is to sit in front of the dullard box watching some overpaid celebrities or complete nobodies. [/b]
That wasn't my point; was it? I'm saying both are generally a waste of human potential.
With TV though, you can find some informational shows; I happen to watch a lot of documentaries. Both though, like I said, are expensive. Of course, most people don't take advantage of such useful programming.

I've talked about drugs a great deal and don't have to purchase them to do so. I would rather use a fully functional brain.


Wasted intellect? give me a break.

No, I won't; sitting, laughing and drooling my be the idea of an engaging discussion for some but I've seen nothing accept pure waste. Waste of time for personal development and waste of poetical social involvement.


Even if you can afford satellite or digital, most TV programmes are complete mind-rot.

Agreed.


And I would rather pay the occasional £20 for an eightth of weed than be forced to pay £120 a year simply for owning a damn television.

Still, I see TV as having some nice features but if someone would only watch mainstream programming, they certainly might as well be smothering their cognitive capacity with chemicals.

If anyone is going to avoid my given material reasons for opposing general recreational drug use with "Your a puritan..." please do get it out of the way and make no pretence of addressing the real questions raised.

[dislatino]

In my oppinion T.V robs your brain more than say smoking some weed and creating intellecual converstaions that you never knew you could talk about with intense depth.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 03:06 PM
In my oppinion T.V robs your brain more than say smoking some weed and creating intellecual converstaions that you never knew you could talk about with intense depth.
Possibly so but I've had "intellecual converstaions that you never knew you could talk about with intense depth," without using chemical substances. I doubt that recreational drugs really enhance critical thinking or articulation, though I've heard of drugs that increase memory or mathematical thinking.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I've talked about drugs a great deal and don't have to purchase them to do so. I would rather use a fully functional brain.

Most drugs leave one's brain fully functional, but simply cause it to function differently.


No, I won't; sitting, laughing and drooling my be the idea of an engaging discussion for some but I've seen nothing accept pure waste. Waste of time for personal development and waste of poetical social involvement.

What the fuck is "personal development"? Not all mental activity has to be scientific and rational, it helps to be creative and imaginative, and what's wrong with feeling good at the same time? "poetical social development"? Sounds like PoMo rubbish to me.



Still, I see TV as having some nice features but if someone would only watch mainstream programming, they certainly might as well be smothering their cognitive capacity with chemicals.

I object. Experimenting with chemicals is a much more varied and sociable activity than slumping in front of the dummyvision watching the same mediocre programs night after night.


Possibly so but I've had "intellecual converstaions that you never knew you could talk about with intense depth," without using chemical substances. I doubt that recreational drugs really enhance critical thinking or articulation, though I've heard of drugs that increase memory or mathematical thinking.

I find that arguments involving critical thinking are easier to do under the influence of nicoteine - it allows me to concentrate easier on the subject at hand and not get distracted by side issues or otherwise sidetracked.
As for most other drugs, they allow me to think outside the box in terms of creative or "spatial" thinking (In other words, I find it easier to come with musical and drawing ideas under the influence of pot and/or alcohol)

Diethyl Ether, one of my most recent discoveries, Has effects quite unlike pot or alcohol. Hopefully I will be able to work out what sort of mental activity suits this particular chemical before I run out, but it will be a fascinating journey.

[dislatino]

though I've heard of drugs that increase memory or mathematical thinking.

These are?

[dislatino]

Diethyl Ether, one of my most recent discoveries, Has effects quite unlike pot or alcohol. Hopefully I will be able to work out what sort of mental activity suits this particular chemical before I run out, but it will be a fascinating journey.


Where did you hear about this? What is it meant to be like?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Erowid Ether Vault (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ether/)

[TomRK1089]

If you really want to screw with your serotonin and other neurotransmitters, be my guest. But just remember that drugs that alter brain chemistry don't put everything back together once you're done with them--the damage is done.

As for television, there are about two shows I watch regularly--LOST and Invasion. Both of these are simply because I enjoy the speculative fiction involved in the plot, as well as the dynamic character development involved in LOST. I won't claim that they educate me in any way, but they provide a much-needed distraction from reality occasionally.

As for all other television, it's crap. News programs are untrustworthy and reality TV is an oxymoron. Occasionally, I'll go for the History channel or an interesting science show, but not often.

[dusk]

Drugs can change your state of mind.
It doesn't make you a ravin' lunatic or something.
Well, that goes for the most people.

[Eleutherios]

I've been smoking a lot of pot for the past three years. I don't find my intellect or thinking abilities have suffered one bit. Like NoXion, I actually find it helps me think outside the box. I have come up with some of my most creative thoughts on weed, since it can help you put disparate ideas together to see the bigger picture. In fact, that's probably one of the main reasons I became a radical. Before I started smoking I was on a trend towards liberal reformism, but by observing social conditions and reading, while under the influence of marijuana, I was able to see the desirability and feasibility of a revolutionary change towards a classless, stateless society.

Originally posted by Bill Hicks
Isn't it interesting that the two drugs that are legal, alcohol and cigarettes, are the two drugs that do absolutely nothing for you whatsoever, and drugs that grow naturally on this planet, drugs that open your eyes up to make you realize how you're being fucked every day of your life—those drugs are against the law. Wow! Coincidence? I don't know. I'm sure their motives are pure.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 04:10 PM

though I've heard of drugs that increase memory or mathematical thinking.

These are?
Donepezil
Ritalin
CX717 (military drug, keeps you mentally alert)

Who knows what the side-effects are but, these help people think. There was one more for memory but I missed it on the documentary (started with a "P") :D

[dannie]

as an adittion: a lot of drugs can be benificial in a medical way, pain relief, psychiatric disorders, ... I have spoken to some people who use pot medically and they can't imagine a life without it anymore, years of intense pain can be relieved with some tea

[Hegemonicretribution]

I don't watch television, and haven't done for about 5/6 years now. I refuse to have an arial connected up, and have one only to watch my reasonable collection of second hand VHS on ;)

Whenever I would have watched television, I now read. Admittedly I take a shitload of drugs, although 98% of that is just weed. Sometimes I find books harder to read when I am absolutely mashed, but it is still more productive than watching television. The simple thing is that we need some time to kick back and relax, but with either drugs or TV, the time we spend can become disproportionate. I keep smoking for after college/gym/essays, so as to keep me on track. I am fine with this, and am a reasonably productive stoner, with an above average memory and attention span (when not stoned).

I wouldn't necessarily argue that drugs are benificial in the ammounts that I use them, but I don't think they are as counter-productive as other things can be.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

This is in Practice why?

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 03:50 PM
This is in Practice why?
Never noticed that, I posted from the search forum :huh: ...Moved to learning.

[kingbee]

Yes but when I'm mashed, we talk a lot more stimulating things, but they're forgotten in about 5 minutes.

TV, especially educational stuff, is a lot more beneficial IMO.

[Lord Testicles]

Whats wrong with taking drugs and then watching tv?

[ChemicalBrother]

Postman’s book Amusing Ourselves to Death raises some very interesting questions about television and it’s effects on our ability to conduct intelligent public discourse. Our public discourse (or lack thereof) is attributed to the fact that “all public discourse takes the form of a jest” or essentially all the information that we receive from television is entertainment. It only provides us with useless trivia, knowledge without context, without understanding. This has many implications for the future of public discourse and the method of utilizing this entertainment medium as a form of control. What Postman is trying to expose is essentially the decay of public discourse and a society that is more concerned with the number of murders that occur per year, but not why they occur.
Fear is a very effective method of social control, when it is based upon the threat of physical punishment, incarceration or monetary fines. Fear can also be defined as being afraid of the outcome of one’s actions. We have become afraid of ourselves and our ideas, we lock them up and do not discuss them for fear that we may share a different opinion than someone else and we won’t be entertained anymore. This is very evident at my traditional family gatherings; our cardinal rule is that we should not discuss religion and politics, just mindless babble about the latest fashion trends. Postman would say that discourse of religion and politics is exactly what is needed in “The Age of Show Business”. The passivity of the people, especially among college students in the United States is very evident; student protestors in France have shown solidarity with political movements, whereas students in the United States can usually name the cast of the latest real world. Postman would argue that this is the crux of his argument; television becoming so powerful as to transform useless junk into seemingly real information while the truth is obscured by the layers of nonsense.

[RedRevolution]

Drugs are fun and tv is fun, since when has communism been anti-fun?

[red team]

Originally posted by 313C7 iVi4RX+Mar 31 2006, 08:18 PM--> (313C7 iVi4RX @ Mar 31 2006, 08:18 PM)
[email protected] 28 2006, 04:10 PM

though I've heard of drugs that increase memory or mathematical thinking.

These are?
Donepezil
Ritalin
CX717 (military drug, keeps you mentally alert)

Who knows what the side-effects are but, these help people think. There was one more for memory but I missed it on the documentary (started with a "P") :D [/b]
Do you mean Piracetam?

Do a google search on nootropics you'll find a lot of info.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 05:09 AM
Drugs are fun and tv is fun, since when has communism been anti-fun?
Communism isn't currently in place. Communism does not suggest that any body has a right to restrict fun, when this is not to the detriment of others, such as drug or TV use. However, insofar as these act as "opiates" of the people, they conserve the status quo by stunting the development of class consciousness...or so the theory goes.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we all spend all of our time fucked up and watching telly. At the same time, no one is suggesting that we should be clear and alert 24/7, there must be a happy medium.

[RedRevolution]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we all spend all of our time fucked up and watching telly. At the same time, no one is suggesting that we should be clear and alert 24/7, there must be a happy medium.

They do seem to be preaching to me as to what I should do in my non-productive (leisure) time

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 09:35 AM
They do seem to be preaching to me as to what I should do in my non-productive (leisure) time
Some are anti-drugs some anti-television. It is good that people represent these views, as long as they aren't against an individual's right to use/watch drugs/TV.

Some people will suggest that every waking minute should be productive, others don't. Personally I need a vice in my life, at times this has been alcohol, cannabis, tobacco, and exercise. I have found that I can change and moderate my vice(s), but I don't see why they should always necessarily be productive.

When I exercised much more than I do now, it is true that I had more energy. You will find that if you work out more, you are able to work out more, cut back and you have less energy. I have found that my energy reserves after a lazyish patch are not as great as they used to be, maybe I am just getting older ;). Before I experienced hangovers, or sluggishness after a smoke, I used to advocate getting wasted far more than I do now.

Those that suggest that we are always active may be energetic and idealistic, or have had experience of taking drug use too far...who knows, what is important is not what people suggest that you do, but what they enforce upon you.

[RedRevolution]

I strongly suspect that if a revolution came half these people would act like the facsists they seem to want to be.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 09:50 AM
I strongly suspect that if a revolution came half these people would act like the facsists they seem to want to be.
Whilst people want merely to suggest their customs and practices as a replacement for the current ones they are not what can be considered "conscious" in my opinion. Such people are not revolutionary in the slightest, they are just jumping on a "communist" band-waggon to secure their own agenda. I wonder where this has happened before <_<

If a practice does not affect others, such as taking drugs, watching telly, or praying to an invisible being, then why should anyone have the right to prevent this, even if they don&#39;t like it?

When you look at arguments against such practices, they are usually very weak. The same can be said for arguments against homosexuality, mixed race relations and many more. Most of the time they rely upon some unfounded a-priori assumption in order to preserve themselves.

It is only once people realise that the point isn&#39;t what we should and shouldn&#39;t be allowed to do, but rather condemning only those practices that are exploitative and harmful that we are ready for revolt.

A consensus for lifestyle or preference is not required for a revolution, what is necessary is for people to adopt an attitude of tollerance towards all non-reactionary practices.

[Janus]

I don&#39;t think that they necessarily waste your time unless they occupy your entire life. Then that&#39;s when you have lost much of your true human potential. But there&#39;s nothing wrong with having a little fun is there?

[BlackStar]

....what the hell all....here are the facts, yes tv can be informative but is GENERALLY mind rot..also...drugs can be useful, in moderation, at times and they will most probably stir up intellectual conversations at some point but they should not be abused, and on that note ide also like to say that i only consider weed or hash as a respectable drug to use. Anything harder is a waste of money and mental potential.

[CCCPneubauten]

Drugs are the biggest waste of time. I mean do you know where all that money is going to? Perhaps it is going to some sort of cartel that is killing innocent people.

There is just no telling where all that cash you blow on drugs goes.

What a sick waste of time.

[LSD]

....what the hell all....here are the facts, yes tv can be informative but is GENERALLY mind rot..

Firstly, there is no such thing as "mind rot". As long as a human brain is alive and sufficiently fed with oxygen, it is chemically unable to "rot".

Secondly, who gives a fuck whether or not television is "informative". The point is that it&#39;s fun.

Now, personally, I tend not to watch actual television because the commericals just bore and infuriate me. But I regularly download television episodes. I&#39;ll admit I haven&#39;t watched all of what I&#39;ve downloaded, but I sure do occasionaly sit down, crack open a drink, and allow myself some moments of escapism.

After a long day at work dealing with very very sick people, trust me, a little escape is a healthy thing.


also...drugs can be useful, in moderation, at times and they will most probably stir up intellectual conversations at some point but they should not be abused

Exactly right.

Anything can be abused, but in moderation there are a good deal of pleasures available to us and we should not be afraid to experience as many of them as possible.

We only live for a short time, we have to make the best of it that we can.


and on that note ide also like to say that i only consider weed or hash as a respectable drug to use. Anything harder is a waste of money and mental potential.

What nonsense.

There are numerous "hard" drugs that are demonstrably less harmful than Marijuana (especially smoked). LSD comes immediately to mind (for obvious reasons), but there are others.

In fact, there are precious few drugs that are geniunely harmful if used in moderation. And in terms of "mental potential", any risk of significant degradation caused by occasional drug use is entirely mythical.

That&#39;s not to say that there aren&#39;t some substances that can seriously fuck you up -- inhalents are a good example of one, as, actually, is cocaine. But to say that all so-called "hard drugs" are implicitly dangerous is simply not factually correct.


Drugs are the biggest waste of time.

And what, precisely, would you suggest would be a more productive use of the time?

Perhaps reading Lenin&#39;s collected works or ruminating on some Hegel? :rolleyes:

Life is about more than information and knowledge, it also has to include some pleasure. After all, if we are to adopt a strictly productivist perspective, then of what "use" is even something as basic as sex?

I mean the blowjob I got the other day didn&#39;t "contribute" to any "revolutionary interests", nor did it actually help a single person in the world except for me. So, by your judgment, I suppose it was a "waste of time".

Forgive me if I don&#39;t share that opinion&#33; :lol:


I mean do you know where all that money is going to?

Sure thing. It&#39;s going to some asshole capitalist who&#39;s exploiting his workers and probably uses my money to make other people&#39;s lives miserable ...just like when I buy shoes or food or electronics or furniture or clothing or books or music or toothpaste.


There is just no telling where all that cash you blow on drugs goes.

Again, just like everything else in capitalism.

And, incidently, what about home-made drugs? What about chemicals that are made in a private lab with no "cartels" involved?

Let me guess, they&#39;re "wastes of time" and "sick". <_<

You know what, if you want to broadcast your personal subjective moralism, that&#39;s fine. But leave the ONDCP crap about "evil cartels" out of it.

[BlackStar]

Firstly, there is no such thing as "mind rot". As long as a human brain is alive and sufficiently fed with oxygen, it is chemically unable to "rot".

Secondly, who gives a fuck whether or not television is "informative". The point is that it&#39;s fun.

.....now why the hell would you think i meant mind rot..literally...i said MIND not brain, i am aware that the brain cannot rot whilst still alive but there are ways to destroy ur mind. Ive seen people sit infront of a TV and just stare at it, semi-conscious and the worst part of it is that these people are addicted. I kno this is another topic altogether but anyway, I persoanlly find TV a large waste, and no....we dont have to spend all our time reading Lenin.....w could tho, undertake a project, or get a hobby. Also,


There are numerous "hard" drugs that are demonstrably less harmful than Marijuana (especially smoked). LSD comes immediately to mind (for obvious reasons), but there are others.

In fact, there are precious few drugs that are geniunely harmful if used in moderation. And in terms of "mental potential", any risk of significant degradation caused by occasional drug use is entirely mythical.

I know that most drugs are not harmful used in moderation BUT many of these drugs are highly addictive and cause lifelong struggles to quit. Why take the risk? I&#39;m not judging anyone who does this shit, I just dont wanna hear people tel there sob-stories of how they wasted their lives doing drugs and how they had to go thru rehab and shit to get over &#39;em. They should have informed themselves first before sparking up that crack pipe or jabbing that syringe into their bodies..

Thanx..lol

BTW no hard feelings to you LSD..love u comrade.

[LSD]

Ive seen people sit infront of a TV and just stare at it, semi-conscious and the worst part of it is that these people are addicted.

No, they&#39;re not addicted, they&#39;re enjoying themselves.

In the alienating, exploitative environment of bourgeois capitalism, they are attempting to escape from their miserable lives by immersing themselves in fantasies. It&#39;s really no different from reading a bok or listening to the radio.

There tends to be a moralistic element of our society that sees TV as somehow "different" from other forms of entertainment, but that is complete and utter nonsense.

There is zero evidence that television, by virtue of being visual, is any more "addictive" than any other passive escape.

Is watching television "productive"? Almost certainly not.

But people have the right to enjoy themselves and spend there personal time doing whatever the fuck they want to. Revolutionary politics isn&#39;t just about recognizing class relations, it&#39;s also about recognizing individual agency.

If we are to build a proletarian society and trust the workers to run their own governance, we need to start trusting them today.


persoanlly find TV a large waste

Well then I would advise you not to watch it. But I think that blanket generalizations regarding other people and there experiences are entirely unnescessary and dangerously neopuritanistic.


I know that most drugs are not harmful used in moderation BUT many of these drugs are highly addictive and cause lifelong struggles to quit.

True.


They should have informed themselves first before sparking up that crack pipe or jabbing that syringe into their bodies..

On this we are in complete agreement.

When it comes to any chemical use, there is nothing mroe important than information. Ignorance in this subject can litteraly kill you and that is why it is so important that people do their research before using anything.

Just another reason why drug prohibition is such a monumentally moronic idea. <_<

[BlackStar]

At least we agree on something. What my problem is, is that okay u say they are enjoying themselves right, watching TV. I agree&#33; Im sure though there are better ways to enjoy urself. Personally, what my favorite thing to do is sit in my friends&#39;s basements and discuss life. I find that fun, and its productive. Sometimes we find solutions..lol

and for the record. i dont watch tv :D

[CCCPneubauten]

Morals, eh, say what ever, I don&#39;t care if others do drugs, get hooked on things that mess with your brain power. Fine with me.

Heroin fans the AIDs fire, I&#39;d rather like it if people worked to end such a horrific thing such as AIDs/

If it gives you joy, go ahead, god gives a lot of people joy to, so does a pillow, mad made things that give pleasure shouldn&#39;t be taken away, and people should have the freedom to use such things.

No matter how stupid they seem to the rest of us.