Orthodox Marxist
27th March 2006, 18:20
http://talkwarrior.com/2005/02/che-guevara...e-and-anti.html (http://talkwarrior.com/2005/02/che-guevara-racist-homophobe-and-anti.html)
Che Guevara: Racist, Homophobe, and Anti-Semite
Sunday, February 06, 2005
I just love a good Commie propaganda flick. I am Cuba is one of my favorite movies of all time. This being the case, I was a real sucker for The Motorcycle Diaries, a poignant and beautiful film about Che Guevara's travels through South America on his motorcycle with his friend. The film is based on Che Guevara's written memoir of the same title. The film reeked of propaganda because the Che Guevara character was a saint that stood for moral righteousness. He was more God than man.
Being interested in Che Guevara, I went to CHE-LIVES.COM, hoping to find some people who wanted to discuss the movie, and also hoping to find more information about Che Guevara. Like the vast majority of left-wing websites, I was denied access to their forums. As usual, my personal e-mail request to be a part of their community went unanswered. Being a Socialist myself, and a devout liberal, I cannot tell you how fucking offensive it is to me to have these elitist fucks reject me. But I think I know why they reject me. I think the reason is that they fear people like me who seek the truth rather than blind allegiance to a political ideology.
What people who want to foster the myth of Che Guevara don't want to tell you -- what the movie does not tell you, is that Che Guevara was a racist, an anti-Semite, and a homophobe. I have selected the least ambiguous quotes from The Motorcycle Diaries -- the book, to illustrate my point. Keep in mind while reading the quotes that Che Guevara was not only a medical doctor, but talked incessantly about the ignorance and petty prejudices of people of all social classes.
Quotes from The Motorcycle Diaries (the book):
"The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese."
"The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations."
"The episode upset us a little because the poor man, apart from being homosexual and a first-rate bore, had been very nice to us, giving us 10 soles each, bringing our total to 479 for me and 163 1/2 to Alberto."
"The first person we hit on was the mayor, someone called Cohen; we had heard a lot about him, that he was Jewish as far as money was concerned but a good sort."
Reading The Motorcycle Diaries felt like listening to a preacher who preaches the virtues of marital fidelity, yet sneaks screws from whores while away from his wife.
What a stupid entry.
First of, you don't have to ask for membership at che-lives.com/revolutionaryleft.com, you can just register an account there (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=Reg&CODE=00). You are obviesly too stupid to simply click on a "register" link, instead you e-mail the admins and ask them to set up an account for you?! Please tell what sense does that make! is that too ordinary for his royal highness? Stange that someone like you is able to set up an Internet radio, but fails with the simple process o regsitering for a dicussion forum.
The comments by Che you picked are without quetions racist, but he made them when he was young and very uneducated about leftist theory. He made them before he turned into a leftist/communist. Therefore your quotes are completely irrelavant, like your whole liberal bullshit site here.
# posted by Anonymous : 11:18 AM EST
Dear Anonymous,
Obviously, you are not the administrator of Che-Lives. If you were you would have read my e-mail, and known that I was unable to register through the normal process. Perhaps I am, in your own words, "obviesly too stupid" to figure out how to register, but you really need to know how to spell better before you call others stupid. It really weakens your argument.
You know, Anonymous, it's funny. I never saw my guestbook entry on Che-Lives. Did I miss something, or perhaps the entry got "lost."
I'll tell you what, Anonymous. When I start the next season of the radio show, which is soon, I will be doing a show exclusively on Che Guevara. It will probably be either the first or second show of the season. You fuckers at Che-Lives have shown me such rudeness that I have no desire to register to be on your website, but what I will do is send another e-mail to the webmaster, requesting that he send a representative of your community to be on my show about Che Guevara. If you are reading this, Anonymous, you are also welcome to be on this show. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and I will listen to you. But if I'm going to be ignored and treated like shit by your community, I'm going straight for the jugular.
# posted by Dickie : 4:40 PM EST
The server has been experiencing problems, and the guestbook entry was likely to have been lost. That's likely the same reason you couldn't register, and it's possible he didn't receive your email(s) because of it. Anybody is free to register at the forum.
As for admin not responding, if he received it: he does it in his spare time, and nobody is obligated to reply to any email. I've forgotten to reply to countless emails from random people, and will likely do so again in the future.
Regardless, it's likely that if you couldn't register on your own, he wouldn't be able to register you, either.
Racism, homophobia and anti-semitism in any form is not tolerated on the forum. Guevara did have some very bad traits, much like george washington, thomas jefferson, Eugene Debs and a host of other historical figures. They were products of their time and culture.
If you're interested in the forum, I'd suggest trying to register again.
# posted by Anonymous : 6:56 AM EST
As one of the administrators of the Revolutionary Left board (formerly Che-Lives), I'm sorry you were unable to register and post your comments...we've had major problems this month with our server.
There are some points that should be clarified with regard to your quotations from The Motorcycle Diaries.
First, the comments made in his youth, BEFORE he had a chance to study communist ideas, are rather innocuous. He was clearly NOT a "raging" racist, homophobe, or anti-semite. In fact, his casual racism, etc., was probably typical of middle-class Argentine opinion.
What was NOT typical was Che's determination to travel around the continent and see how people really lived with his own eyes...and to LEARN from his experiences.
Second, there are many cases where the views of one's maturity are remarkably different from those of one's youth. Did you know, for example, that Joseph Goebbels was seriously interested in communism prior to his conversion to Nazism?
One could have a spot of fun pointing this out at a Nazi board.
Finally, if you actually look over the RevLeft board, you'll quickly see that we are NOT a collection of mindless "Che-fans" -- but people seriously interested in revolutionary communism and revolutionary anarchism. We are the largest and most active such board in the English-speaking world with nearly 9,000 registered members and over 14,000 posts per month.
If it suits your purposes to pour scorn on the young Che, go right ahead...it certainly won't bother us.
Nor do I expect it will have much effect on Che's reputation.
redstar2000
RevLeft administrator
# posted by redstar2000 : 12:36 AM EST
Now hold on here. You need to be fair to me. I gave you ample opportunity to be on the show I did on Che Guevara, yet you never responded. I even posted my invitation to get you on the show on my website. Here is the URL:
http://talkwarrior.com/2005/02/invitation-...e-livescom.html (http://talkwarrior.com/2005/02/invitation-to-che-livescom.html)
And this was not the first time you did not respond to a query of mine. Several months earlier I asked you why I was not able to post in your forums. There was no response.
I'm not here to bash Che Guevara or your community, but when I am completely ignored and not granted access to your community, the only assumption that I can make is that you have something to hide or you are seeking left-wing dittoheads only.
I believe in the free and open exchange of information. You're still welcome to come on the show to express your opinion. However, there are tough questions about Che Guevara that I feel need to be answered before we look at his accomplishments. If you wish to contact me to set up an appointment to tape a show, you can do so by selecting the items in the "Contact" area of the website menu.
# posted by Dickie : 5:35 AM EST
You didn't reply to my previous (anonymous) post. I feel terribly ignored and unimportant to your elitist liberal agenda now.
I invite you to come to the forum, so I can go straight for the jugular out of pent up anger and resentment for not having my ego stroked.
I'm a very, very, very, very important person, and I deserved a response. You're so mean.
# posted by encephalon : 7:01 AM EST
I already attempted to post in your forums, and I wasn't granted access. I've already had enough censorship from your website for one lifetime, thank you. If you want to release some pent up anger against me, I suggest you either arrange to do another Che Guevara show with me, or call in. I do not engage in censorship, so you will be allowed to vent all your rage. It's better to set up an appointment though, as I do not always do it live.
# posted by Dickie : 2:15 PM EST
I have been a member of che-lives/rev-left for a long time, and I have never heard of a person having to ask to register.
I assume that you must have run into a storm of technical problems which the site has been plagued with.
Of course you are using this single example as a means of disregarding the whole site, despite numerous invitations to join.
What conclusion can we draw from this act? The obvious conclusion is that you have no real interest in returning to the site, and argue your point. Instead you would rather take pot shots from a-far. As you are unwilling to make any effort to quantify your allegations against rev-left, then why make them?
One can only assume that you are in fact some childish individual attacking what he does not understand.
Good day to you, sir.
# posted by Enigma : 8:05 PM EDT
Che Guevara: Racist, Homophobe, and Anti-Semite
Sunday, February 06, 2005
I just love a good Commie propaganda flick. I am Cuba is one of my favorite movies of all time. This being the case, I was a real sucker for The Motorcycle Diaries, a poignant and beautiful film about Che Guevara's travels through South America on his motorcycle with his friend. The film is based on Che Guevara's written memoir of the same title. The film reeked of propaganda because the Che Guevara character was a saint that stood for moral righteousness. He was more God than man.
Being interested in Che Guevara, I went to CHE-LIVES.COM, hoping to find some people who wanted to discuss the movie, and also hoping to find more information about Che Guevara. Like the vast majority of left-wing websites, I was denied access to their forums. As usual, my personal e-mail request to be a part of their community went unanswered. Being a Socialist myself, and a devout liberal, I cannot tell you how fucking offensive it is to me to have these elitist fucks reject me. But I think I know why they reject me. I think the reason is that they fear people like me who seek the truth rather than blind allegiance to a political ideology.
What people who want to foster the myth of Che Guevara don't want to tell you -- what the movie does not tell you, is that Che Guevara was a racist, an anti-Semite, and a homophobe. I have selected the least ambiguous quotes from The Motorcycle Diaries -- the book, to illustrate my point. Keep in mind while reading the quotes that Che Guevara was not only a medical doctor, but talked incessantly about the ignorance and petty prejudices of people of all social classes.
Quotes from The Motorcycle Diaries (the book):
"The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese."
"The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations."
"The episode upset us a little because the poor man, apart from being homosexual and a first-rate bore, had been very nice to us, giving us 10 soles each, bringing our total to 479 for me and 163 1/2 to Alberto."
"The first person we hit on was the mayor, someone called Cohen; we had heard a lot about him, that he was Jewish as far as money was concerned but a good sort."
Reading The Motorcycle Diaries felt like listening to a preacher who preaches the virtues of marital fidelity, yet sneaks screws from whores while away from his wife.
What a stupid entry.
First of, you don't have to ask for membership at che-lives.com/revolutionaryleft.com, you can just register an account there (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=Reg&CODE=00). You are obviesly too stupid to simply click on a "register" link, instead you e-mail the admins and ask them to set up an account for you?! Please tell what sense does that make! is that too ordinary for his royal highness? Stange that someone like you is able to set up an Internet radio, but fails with the simple process o regsitering for a dicussion forum.
The comments by Che you picked are without quetions racist, but he made them when he was young and very uneducated about leftist theory. He made them before he turned into a leftist/communist. Therefore your quotes are completely irrelavant, like your whole liberal bullshit site here.
# posted by Anonymous : 11:18 AM EST
Dear Anonymous,
Obviously, you are not the administrator of Che-Lives. If you were you would have read my e-mail, and known that I was unable to register through the normal process. Perhaps I am, in your own words, "obviesly too stupid" to figure out how to register, but you really need to know how to spell better before you call others stupid. It really weakens your argument.
You know, Anonymous, it's funny. I never saw my guestbook entry on Che-Lives. Did I miss something, or perhaps the entry got "lost."
I'll tell you what, Anonymous. When I start the next season of the radio show, which is soon, I will be doing a show exclusively on Che Guevara. It will probably be either the first or second show of the season. You fuckers at Che-Lives have shown me such rudeness that I have no desire to register to be on your website, but what I will do is send another e-mail to the webmaster, requesting that he send a representative of your community to be on my show about Che Guevara. If you are reading this, Anonymous, you are also welcome to be on this show. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and I will listen to you. But if I'm going to be ignored and treated like shit by your community, I'm going straight for the jugular.
# posted by Dickie : 4:40 PM EST
The server has been experiencing problems, and the guestbook entry was likely to have been lost. That's likely the same reason you couldn't register, and it's possible he didn't receive your email(s) because of it. Anybody is free to register at the forum.
As for admin not responding, if he received it: he does it in his spare time, and nobody is obligated to reply to any email. I've forgotten to reply to countless emails from random people, and will likely do so again in the future.
Regardless, it's likely that if you couldn't register on your own, he wouldn't be able to register you, either.
Racism, homophobia and anti-semitism in any form is not tolerated on the forum. Guevara did have some very bad traits, much like george washington, thomas jefferson, Eugene Debs and a host of other historical figures. They were products of their time and culture.
If you're interested in the forum, I'd suggest trying to register again.
# posted by Anonymous : 6:56 AM EST
As one of the administrators of the Revolutionary Left board (formerly Che-Lives), I'm sorry you were unable to register and post your comments...we've had major problems this month with our server.
There are some points that should be clarified with regard to your quotations from The Motorcycle Diaries.
First, the comments made in his youth, BEFORE he had a chance to study communist ideas, are rather innocuous. He was clearly NOT a "raging" racist, homophobe, or anti-semite. In fact, his casual racism, etc., was probably typical of middle-class Argentine opinion.
What was NOT typical was Che's determination to travel around the continent and see how people really lived with his own eyes...and to LEARN from his experiences.
Second, there are many cases where the views of one's maturity are remarkably different from those of one's youth. Did you know, for example, that Joseph Goebbels was seriously interested in communism prior to his conversion to Nazism?
One could have a spot of fun pointing this out at a Nazi board.
Finally, if you actually look over the RevLeft board, you'll quickly see that we are NOT a collection of mindless "Che-fans" -- but people seriously interested in revolutionary communism and revolutionary anarchism. We are the largest and most active such board in the English-speaking world with nearly 9,000 registered members and over 14,000 posts per month.
If it suits your purposes to pour scorn on the young Che, go right ahead...it certainly won't bother us.
Nor do I expect it will have much effect on Che's reputation.
redstar2000
RevLeft administrator
# posted by redstar2000 : 12:36 AM EST
Now hold on here. You need to be fair to me. I gave you ample opportunity to be on the show I did on Che Guevara, yet you never responded. I even posted my invitation to get you on the show on my website. Here is the URL:
http://talkwarrior.com/2005/02/invitation-...e-livescom.html (http://talkwarrior.com/2005/02/invitation-to-che-livescom.html)
And this was not the first time you did not respond to a query of mine. Several months earlier I asked you why I was not able to post in your forums. There was no response.
I'm not here to bash Che Guevara or your community, but when I am completely ignored and not granted access to your community, the only assumption that I can make is that you have something to hide or you are seeking left-wing dittoheads only.
I believe in the free and open exchange of information. You're still welcome to come on the show to express your opinion. However, there are tough questions about Che Guevara that I feel need to be answered before we look at his accomplishments. If you wish to contact me to set up an appointment to tape a show, you can do so by selecting the items in the "Contact" area of the website menu.
# posted by Dickie : 5:35 AM EST
You didn't reply to my previous (anonymous) post. I feel terribly ignored and unimportant to your elitist liberal agenda now.
I invite you to come to the forum, so I can go straight for the jugular out of pent up anger and resentment for not having my ego stroked.
I'm a very, very, very, very important person, and I deserved a response. You're so mean.
# posted by encephalon : 7:01 AM EST
I already attempted to post in your forums, and I wasn't granted access. I've already had enough censorship from your website for one lifetime, thank you. If you want to release some pent up anger against me, I suggest you either arrange to do another Che Guevara show with me, or call in. I do not engage in censorship, so you will be allowed to vent all your rage. It's better to set up an appointment though, as I do not always do it live.
# posted by Dickie : 2:15 PM EST
I have been a member of che-lives/rev-left for a long time, and I have never heard of a person having to ask to register.
I assume that you must have run into a storm of technical problems which the site has been plagued with.
Of course you are using this single example as a means of disregarding the whole site, despite numerous invitations to join.
What conclusion can we draw from this act? The obvious conclusion is that you have no real interest in returning to the site, and argue your point. Instead you would rather take pot shots from a-far. As you are unwilling to make any effort to quantify your allegations against rev-left, then why make them?
One can only assume that you are in fact some childish individual attacking what he does not understand.
Good day to you, sir.
# posted by Enigma : 8:05 PM EDT