Iraqis killed by US troops ‘on rampage’

[Intifada]

THE villagers of Abu Sifa near the Iraqi town of Balad had become used to the sound of explosions at night as American forces searched the area for suspected insurgents. But one night two weeks ago Issa Harat Khalaf heard a different sound that chilled him to the bone.

Khalaf, a 33-year-old security officer guarding oil pipelines, saw a US helicopter land near his home. American soldiers stormed out of the Chinook and advanced on a house owned by Khalaf’s brother Fayez, firing as they went.

Khalaf ran from his own house and hid in a nearby grove of trees. He saw the soldiers enter his brother’s home and then heard the sound of women and children screaming.

“Then there was a lot of machinegun fire,” he said last week. After that there was the most frightening sound of all — silence, followed by explosions as the soldiers left the house.

Once the troops were gone, Khalaf and his fellow villagers began a frantic search through the ruins of his brother’s home. Abu Sifa was about to join a lengthening list of Iraqi communities claiming to have suffered from American atrocities.

According to Iraqi police, 11 bodies were pulled from the wreckage of the house, among them four women and five children aged between six months and five years. An official police report obtained by a US reporter for Knight Ridder newspapers said: “The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 people.”

Full story... (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2103695_1,00.html)

Fuckers... :angry:

[Oh-Dae-Su]

well, as an American, im terribly ashamed if that was true. This article just came out today, so i hope it is investigated. If American troops did execute this family for no apparent reason, than the commander who ordered this should be put on trial. This is unacceptable actions. Im sure this will come to notice if it's a reliable source. But i as an American, speaking for the American people condem such acts, and im sure our government does too, but of course with Bush as president im not sure it's believable.

[Delirium]

Reports of these sort seem to be coming out more and more frequently from iraq. I believe that things like this happen, but of course there is no way to prove it.

[VonClausewitz]

What do they expect ? They scrape the bottom of the social barell, give them heavy weaponry, and send them off to an Arab country ? Most of these idiots will either be racially-prejudiced or just stupid. Giving a conscript army a fancy name and shiny toys doesn't make it professional. The American military heads should learn, build a professional army if they're going to have one, not just send these wasters off to war.

As support for that - You don't see any real evidence of any abuse coming out of any other sector do you ? It's been speculated, and indeed is almost wholly proven that all of the photographs of British soldiers abusing prisoners were faked - wrong types of lorry, uniform details etc, but more and more seems to be flooding in about Americans. Perhaps they should go home, more for their own sakes than anyone elses.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

yeah, so the British abuse on Iraqi teenagers was bullshit now huh :rolleyes:

how are stories more believable than actual video footage? than you might as well believe in the bible.

and we are unproffesional? dude, the US Army is the best trained in the whole world, the only thing is, that we have had to send in reserves into Iraq because we need lots of people there.

[VonClausewitz]

yeah, so the British abuse on Iraqi teenagers was bullshit now huh rolleyes.gif

how are stories more believable than actual video footage? than you might as well believe in the bible.

I haven't kept track of everything - it's not my field really, but a lot of it has been revealed, in both mainstream and lesser media to be forgerys, something to make some moron a bit of cash. (selling the stories etc). I expect some of the American stories and pictures were faked aswell, but like I said, not my field.

Stories and Video footage are both fake-able, so both have to be subjected to close scrutiny. Also, the sudden appearance of videos and pictures can sometimes lend weight to people thinking it's all fraudulent - How convinient that that cameraman was there just then, and how convinient his pictures got to major news agencies just like that.


and we are unproffesional? dude, the US Army is the best trained in the whole world, the only thing is, that we have had to send in reserves into Iraq because we need lots of people there.

'We' ? Are you in the US Army ? Americans like to think that the US army is the best in the world. It has a lot of the best equipment, and has several excellent special service arms, but I wouldn't, and several friends that have served alongside them, ever call them 'the best'. Best equipped and supplied, certainly. The fact that apparently highly-trained US Marines are guilty of crimes around the world does kindof neuter your point a little, So does the fact that the British had to commit some reservists aswell.

(But this isn't the point of the topic, so I'll leave it at that comprimise if you will).

[TC]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/26032006/325/iraq...use-troops.html (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/26032006/325/iraq-shi-ites-accuse-troops.html)

Americans tie up and execute 20 worshipers in a mosque according to the US collaborators in the so called 'Iraqi Government'

Iraqiya state television carried lengthy footage of the bloodied corpses of men in civilian clothes, in a room where no weapons were visible, calling them victims of U.S. gunfire.

"American forces raid and burn Mustafa mosque. A number of citizens martyred inside," it said in an on-screen headline...

...Sadr aides said troops killed unarmed people: "The American forces went into Mustafa mosque at prayers and killed more than 20 worshippers," Araji said. "They tied them up and shot them."

Transport Minister Salem al-Maliki, from Sadr's group, said: "This was part of an escalation programme to drag Sadr's group into another battle or to obstruct the political process."



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/commo...5E31477,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18558105%255E31477,00.html)

US Marines massacre Iraqi family in revenge for a Resistance attack on their unit.



The killings occurred last November, after a roadside bomb explosion in the town of Haditha in which one marine was killed and two injured.

A US military statement at the time claimed the civilians had died in the bomb blast.

But in fact they were shot dead by marines in their homes, a US military investigation has now conceded...
...The allegations against the marines were first reported by Time magazine, which said it had obtained a videotape two months ago recorded by a Haditha journalism student inside the houses and the local morgue.


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...74649-2,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1174649-2,00.html)


Eman says the rest of the family—her mother, grandfather, grandmother, two brothers, two aunts and two uncles—gathered in the living room... A group of Marines headed toward the house. Eman says she "heard a lot of shooting, so none of us went outside. Besides, it was very early, and we were all wearing our nightclothes." When the Marines entered the house, they were shouting in English. "First, they went into my father's room, where he was reading the Koran," she claims, "and we heard shots." According to Eman, the Marines then entered the living room. "I couldn't see their faces very well—only their guns sticking into the doorway. I watched them shoot my grandfather, first in the chest and then in the head. Then they killed my granny." She claims the troops started firing toward the corner of the room where she and her younger brother Abdul Rahman, 8, were hiding; the other adults shielded the children from the bullets but died in the process...

..."We were lying there, bleeding, and it hurt so much. Afterward, some Iraqi soldiers came. They carried us in their arms. I was crying, shouting 'Why did you do this to our family?' And one Iraqi soldier tells me, 'We didn't do it. The Americans did...

...The officials say the military has confirmed that seven people were killed inside the house--including two women and a child. The Marines also reported seeing a man and a woman run out of the house; they gave chase and shot and killed the man. Relatives say the woman, Hiba Abdullah, escaped with her baby...

...The Marines then began firing, killing eight residents—including the owner, his wife, the owner's sister, a 2-year-old son and three young daughters.

The Marines raided a third house, which belongs to a man named Ahmed Ayed. One of Ahmed's five sons, Yousif, who lived in a house next door, told Time that after hearing a prolonged burst of gunfire from his father's house, he rushed over. Iraqi soldiers keeping watch in the garden prevented him from going in. "They told me, 'There's nothing you can do. Don't come closer, or the Americans will kill you too.'

The Americans didn't let anybody into the house until 6:30 the next morning." Ayed says that by then the bodies were gone; all the dead had been zipped into U.S. body bags and taken by Marines to a local hospital morgue. "But we could tell from the blood tracks across the floor what happened," Ayed claims. "The Americans gathered my four brothers and took them inside my father's bedroom, to a closet. They killed them inside the closet."


US Marines systematically exicute Iraqi civilians, including children and babies, for sadistic sport and revenge. The US massacre in Haditha was recorded on film that made it to the American press, but one can only guess that the American atrocities that are filmed and documented only represent a tiny fraction of the number of American atrocities in Iraq. It was just pure luck that someone survived with a videocamera. It also shows US tactics for manipulating the news, until the video came out, the United States tried to cover up their slaughter by attributing their deaths to the insurgents and like professional hitmen getting the bodies out of the crime scene, which just goes to show how reliable US claims are that insurgents have killed civilians while targeting US troops.

Anyone with a scrap of decency can only hope that the Iraqi resistance forces kill American troops before they can murder more.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Anyone with a scrap of decency can only hope that the Iraqi resistance forces kill American troops before they can murder more.

you sicken me :angry: you can only hope that the American troops are killed huh :angry: wow talk about decency.

if you actually read the articles you posted, one of them says that the people killed in the mosques as told by Iraqi police and residents were cought on a fight by Shiate milita fighters and Americans, and another article says the obvious action of the American government, which is that we are going to investigate this intolerable acts and take action. Soldiers can be murderers too you know! they are people dressed up with license to kill, they can kill in Iraq, or they can kill here in America as civilians too. How come none of you talk about all the rodeside bombs left by the insurgency that kills normal young soldiers who probably don't want to be in Iraq in the first place? how come you dont condem the insurgents and Al-Zarqawi? ohhh but when you hear one act supposedly perpetrated intentionally by American soldiers than your the first to criticize. :angry:

[Loknar]

Emotions...surely they iufluence what we WANT to believe even though it may not be true. Now, it says the troops stormed a house with Iraqis and killed them. How do we know that? WHo were the other 2 in the rubble? Were they engaged in combat against the Americans?

We dont know the whole picture so in the name of logic reserve your judgements. Hell, you can find far more warcrimes committed in Chechnya yet I see nothing about Chechnya in this or any other forum.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 06:30 AM
We dont know the whole picture so in the name of logic reserve your judgements.
This is enough for me:

While many allegations of US atrocities have later turned out to be exaggerated or false, the Abu Sifa incident was supported by hospital autopsy reports that said all the victims had died from bullet wounds. A local Iraqi police commander — supposedly co-operating with US forces — confirmed that the bodies had been found with their wrists tied.

To be honest, with the track-record the US Army has, such incidents do not surprise me.

They simply anger me.


Hell, you can find far more warcrimes committed in Chechnya yet I see nothing about Chechnya in this or any other forum.

I am pretty sure you could find some threads about Chechnya and the war crimes being committed by the Russians in that region.

I have read and posted in a few of them.

[Enragé]

Just as Iraq is the new vietnam

this is the new Mi Lay

Also, did you all hear about that mosque they burst into and shot some people? Was in baghdad, Moqtada's men fought back thank god (allah? :P )

[Oh-Dae-Su]

While many allegations of US atrocities have later turned out to be exaggerated or false, the Abu Sifa incident was supported by hospital autopsy reports that said all the victims had died from bullet wounds. A local Iraqi police commander — supposedly co-operating with US forces — confirmed that the bodies had been found with their wrists tied

i guess Americans are the only ones carrying guns in Iraq huh :lol: and ONLY Americans can tie people's wrists :rolleyes:

The truth can't really be known, unless someone neutral does an investigation or something, the fact is the USA is denying that we stormed a mosque, heck it could have been Shii'a , umm remember their fighting eachother! DUH! Iraq is in the brink of civil war, this could have been done that way and blamed the Americans, that is why you just can't jump into conclusions.

By the way, yes , the Russians probably do horrendous acts in Chechnya, but since the media is all focused on Iraq, and all they want to focus on is what is the next little mistake America did, thats what the majority hears. :angry:

[Loknar]

Yes I always wonder why Chechnya escaped everybody’s attention. Perhaps it is because of the media blackout there. Well on 2nd thought...no...even with the blackout nobody cares. Even though the crimes are far more horrendous and wide spread. We're talking about massive population displacement as well as pure war crimes.

The usual Russian soldier is not as professional as the usual American. He is a conscript who doesn’t even want to be in the war zone.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 27 2006, 06:49 PM
i guess Americans are the only ones carrying guns in Iraq huh :lol: and ONLY Americans can tie people's wrists :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

Quite obviously, you have not read the whole article.

A Pentagon inquiry has reportedly confirmed that the civilians were killed by marines.

The only dispute between the US and the Iraqi villagers is whether or not the killings were "collateral damage" or acts of "revenge".


By the way, yes , the Russians probably do horrendous acts in Chechnya

It really isn't a matter of "probably".


but since the media is all focused on Iraq, and all they want to focus on is what is the next little mistake America did, thats what the majority hears. :angry:

Actually, the Western media has not reported on the US troops that have went on a rampage. Indeed, Western media coverage of the invasion, in general, has been justifiably criticised.

[TC]

you sicken me you can only hope that the American troops are killed huh

American troops are just serial killers who work in teams instead of alone. They're no less sadistic.


How come none of you talk about all the rodeside bombs left by the insurgency that kills normal young soldiers who probably don't want to be in Iraq in the first place?

The insurgency has to bomb American soldiers to keep them from murdering more Iraqis, they didn't do anything to provoke the US, they are simply defending their country and people from an illigal invasion and occupation. If US soldiers don't want to be in Iraq, they should desert, frag their officers, or defect, as many of them have.


how come you dont condem the insurgents and Al-Zarqawi?

The resistance is fighting a defensive war, they didn't travel thousands of miles to a nation that hadn't attacked them, they're Iraqis who are have seen their people bombed, disappeared, tortured, and murdered by the US occupation force who simply want to stop it, because they don't have a choice. The difference between an Iraqi resistance fighter and an Iraqi civilian to the Americans is that while the Americans shoot at both of them, its just that the resistance fighters shoot back. Like in Vietnam, America declares entire cities (or cities after night) 'free fire zones' where they plan to kill anyone they see on the street, as they did in Fallujah. In the face of that type of tactic all Iraqis are targets, they simply choose whether they want to be easy targets or better defended targets.


Al-Zarqawi is a minor player with few followers that the US has elevated in the media for its own propaganda purposes, if he exists at all. In any case its impossible to tell what Al-Zarqawi is responsible for because unvarifiable claims of of responsibility are attributed to his organization and no one has seen him in Iraq. But in any case he has nothing to do with anything, the Ba'athists hate him, Al-Sadr hates him, even the central Al Quada leadership dislikes him.


ohhh but when you hear one act supposedly perpetrated intentionally by American soldiers than your the first to criticize.
Whereas you rush to excuse them. If a group of Arab soldiers massacred civilians in an American city would you rush to excuse that as well? I doubt it.


guess Americans are the only ones carrying guns in Iraq huh and ONLY Americans can tie people's wrists


No but in Iraq only Americans use American ammunition, so its probably not hard to tell in an autopsy.


The truth can't really be known, unless someone neutral does an investigation or something, the fact is the USA is denying that we stormed a mosque, heck it could have been Shii'a , umm remember their fighting eachother!

Uh if you look over the information actually the Americans admit to storming the mosque, it was a Shia mosque.


and all they want to focus on is what is the next little mistake America did, thats what the majority hears.

Well if Arab soldiers kill your entire family i'll be sure to belittle it as a 'little mistake.'

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Quite obviously, you have not read the whole article.

A Pentagon inquiry has reportedly confirmed that the civilians were killed by marines.

The only dispute between the US and the Iraqi villagers is whether or not the killings were "collateral damage" or acts of "revenge".

well i was only refering to VonClauswitz , who said that this was the bit that convinced him:
While many allegations of US atrocities have later turned out to be exaggerated or false, the Abu Sifa incident was supported by hospital autopsy reports that said all the victims had died from bullet wounds. A local Iraqi police commander — supposedly co-operating with US forces — confirmed that the bodies had been found with their wrists tied

i thought a convincing thing would be what you said:
A Pentagon inquiry has reportedly confirmed that the civilians were killed by marines.

thats convincing, but you can't always trust the media, but at least that is more believable that the Pentagon confirms it was done by US marines. So yes , now we have to find whether it was revenge or collateral damage or whatever it was; and im sure if this was done unjustifiably, the Marines will be punished.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Tragic Clown, you support the Iraqi insurgents because Americans are killing "innocent people", :lol: ohh man , who do you think Iraqi insurgents kill more? Iraqi civilians or US Marines? ;) think again buddy.

[VonClausewitz]

TragicClown - You don't think the insurgents are provocative ?

The insurgents really aren't helping their cause at all.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 27 2006, 07:18 PM
thats convincing, but you can't always trust the media, but at least that is more believable that the Pentagon confirms it was done by US marines.
I find it hilarious how you believe anything the Pentagon says, whilst the word of the average Iraqi citizen is somehow untrustworthy.

:lol:

Anyway, like I stated before, the US Army has quite an "impressive" track-record of such atrocities.


So yes , now we have to find whether it was revenge or collateral damage or whatever it was; and im sure if this was done unjustifiably, the Marines will be punished.

Judging by the conclusion drawn from the hospital autopsy, and the statement from Iraqi Police, I find it hard to believe how it could possibly have been "collateral damage".

And even if it was, the punishment will undoubtedly be minimal, and handed out to the lowest ranked soldiers.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

not really intifada, if this is pressured by our own people and the international community, the American government will be forced to take sever actions, which i really hope it does if this was done to really just innocent people, if they were iraqi insurgents or criminals or whatever, than it's another story.

[TC]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 07:28 PM
TragicClown - You don't think the insurgents are provocative ?

The insurgents really aren't helping their cause at all.
The bulk of the military resistance against the Americans is remnants of the old Iraqi army, Republican Guard, Fedayeen and Iraqi mukhabarat, or financed and organized by them, they're simply continuing to fight a war that George Bush declared on them in 2003.

The insurgents are the only thing standing between the United States and total domination of Iraq. The Resistance has stoped the United States from stealing Iraqi oil by keeping the pipe-lines down, they've forced them to back away from their origional plan to establish perminant bases in the country, and they've essentially driven them out of Al Anbar province and much of Mosul. If they weren't fighting, Iraqi Oil assets would be operational and owned entirely by American companies (as was the US intent which is why they drew up executive orders allowing for 100% foriegn ownership during the 'Coalition Provisional Authority' with Paul Bremer) and America would be massing troops to invade Syria or Iran.


not really intifada, if this is pressured by our own people and the international community, the American government will be forced to take sever actions, which i really hope it does if this was done to really just innocent people, if they were iraqi insurgents or criminals or whatever, than it's another story.

Oh yah lol 'severe' actions just like it did to the american military police and cia torturers and rapists in abu gharib. Officers are never punished, and a few low ranked enlisted personal are only given token punishments and rarely serve any actual prison terms.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Tragic clown, who else is fighting the defensive war? Osama Bin Laden? Kim Jong Il? :lol: :rolleyes:

[Lord Testicles]

It disgusts me but it doesn’t surprise me. The American armed forces have a long history of abuse and war crimes against civilians.


Tragic clown, who else is fighting the defensive war? Osama Bin Laden? Kim Jong Il?

Last time i checked Osama didnt own a country and North Korea wasnt occupied.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 27 2006, 07:56 PM
not really intifada, if this is pressured by our own people and the international community, the American government will be forced to take sever actions, which i really hope it does if this was done to really just innocent people, if they were iraqi insurgents or criminals or whatever, than it's another story.
You are naive.

Nothing "severe" happened to the people responsible for the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib. Like TragicClown correctly stated, a few low-rank soldiers got some minor sentences and that was the end of the matter.

Moreover, they were only punished because they were "caught in the act".

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Bin Laden didn't own a country and North Korea is not occupied, but your supporting the people with their own ideology. Plus like i said, can any of you guys anwser me (since you support Iraqi insurgents) who do they kill more? US Marines or Iraqi civilians? yeah that's what i thought.

to intifada and tragic human , do you guys read? i said:


if this is pressured by our own people and the international community

than the sever punishment will come!

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 27 2006, 08:27 PM
to intifada and tragic human , do you guys read? i said:


if this is pressured by our own people and the international community

than the sever punishment will come!
You think there was no pressure after the Abu Ghraib abuse came to light?

Like I said, you are naive.


Plus like i said, can any of you guys anwser me (since you support Iraqi insurgents) who do they kill more? US Marines or Iraqi civilians?

Why don't you provide evidence for your assumption?

Also, I would like a definition of "civilian".

Can those serving, or hoping to serve, the Iraqi Army/Police be described as "civilians"?

[Oh-Dae-Su]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060326/ap_on_...aq_060326114652 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060326/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_060326114652)

how do you like that one ^^ the fact is that they are killing their own countryman, one just blew himself up in front of an Iraqi recruitment agency, so tell me you don't support the Iraqi government and it's police force? but you support radical suicide bombers? who kill people who aren't even enlisted? more Iraqis are killed instead of Americans thats what i mean, and thats just stupid.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 07:11 PM
Yes I always wonder why Chechnya escaped everybody’s attention. Perhaps it is because of the media blackout there. Well on 2nd thought...no...even with the blackout nobody cares. Even though the crimes are far more horrendous and wide spread. We're talking about massive population displacement as well as pure war crimes.

The usual Russian soldier is not as professional as the usual American. He is a conscript who doesn’t even want to be in the war zone.
i care about chechnya
fucking disgrace that the russians can get away with that shit


err

and the US soldier does like to be in a war zone?

if so...
i think i like the russian one more :lol:


Tragic clown, who else is fighting the defensive war? Osama Bin Laden?

One could argue that he is.

US troops where stationed near Mecca in Saudi Arabia and the west was involved in Lebanon and the rest of the middle east long BEFORE Bin Laden did anything. That is not to say he's a good guy, but when you think about it he's not the agressor here, just a fucking nut.


how do you like that one ^^ the fact is that they are killing their own countryman, one just blew himself up in front of an Iraqi recruitment agency, so tell me you don't support the Iraqi government and it's police force? but you support radical suicide bombers? who kill people who aren't even enlisted? more Iraqis are killed instead of Americans thats what i mean, and thats just stupid.
Only 10% of all attacks are like that, and are almost all committed by Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

There is a multitude of resistance groups in Iraq, many of which actually are fighting or have fought Al-Qaeda in the past because they attack civilians

[Intifada]

how do you like that one

I don't "like it" at all.

Roadside bomb killings can be purely accidental, "collateral damage" if you want to speak in the language used by Washington, who were not hesitant in using such a tactic as "Shock and Awe", or for that matter using weapons such as cluster bombs, and DU-tipped weapons.

If it was intentional, then I condemn it wholeheartedly. Indeed, I have never condoned attacks against civilians, and those who do attack civilians are as bad as the American and British terrorists.

Having said that, I do support attacks against the occupying forces.


one just blew himself up in front of an Iraqi recruitment agency

Is a person who is willing to join an Army that works alongside the occupying forces an innocent civilian?

In my eyes, no.


but you support radical suicide bombers?

Suicide bombings can be effective, as they are hard to stop.

As long as they are not used to target innocent people, I have no problem with such a tactic.


more Iraqis are killed instead of Americans thats what i mean, and thats just stupid.

Which is not surprising.

The fact is that the US will not win in Iraq. They may not lose, but as long as they do not win, the Iraqi insurgents will be victorious, just like the Vietnamese resistance.

Ho Chi Minh once said:

You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it

I don't think the Anerican public will be content with a "stalemate" situation in Iraq for too long.

[Noah]

Is a person who is willing to join an Army that works alongside the occupying forces an innocent civilian?

I fully agree with your post intifada however, I must say I disagree with you here. Sometimes, Iraqis need to get jobs in the 'authority' (correct term?) because there's no other decent alternative.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 04:34 PM

Is a person who is willing to join an Army that works alongside the occupying forces an innocent civilian?

I fully agree with your post intifada however, I must say I disagree with you here. Sometimes, Iraqis need to get jobs in the 'authority' (correct term?) because there's no other decent alternative.
I agree.

That is why I never commented on whether I "support" the attacks against such people, who find themselves unemployed and with the duty of finding money to keep dinner on the table for their families.

But, I can see why they are attacked by insurgents trying to free their country from the occupiers.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

so i take it you support Hamas? well with that flag of Palestine you have, you probably do, if your a muslim than i understand why you support such wackos :rolleyes:

listen, i dont care if your fighting the evil forces of the devil, if your a terrorist, i can't take sides with you. Sure suicide bombers are a good tactical succes, they kill themselves and others indescriminantly, that is their purpouse, morally i can't support such a thing. You might say than how come i support America, dude i don't care what you say, but we do not go out there and say, let's drop this bomb where there are civilians and lets kill a couple of them. We get the intelligence, the building is the headquarters of such and such enemy, we drop it, if your there walking by than thats called collateral damage. Is it ok? well do we have an alternative? does our technology allow us to use a more effective way to deal with our enemies? :unsure: think not

also, fine, you don't support the Iraqi government because its a puppet of America, ok cool. But what do you think will happen if these wacko insurgents you support take hold of government? I take it your going to be real happy with the Islamic Sharia Law government they will implant right :rolleyes:

and technically, those who have not even signed up for the Iraqi police are still citizens.

the fact is intifada, your supporting uncivilized terrorists. These guys can be civilized, show their discontent diplomatically, i mean they can create their own party if they want under the new democratic government of Iraq!! or if i want to create a separatist party in Iraq i wont be allowed? and make their changes with the people's votes.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 28 2006, 07:49 PM
so i take it you support Hamas?
No.

What a stupid assumption.


well with that flag of Palestine you have, you probably do

Yes, because the Palestinian flag is a symbol of support for Hamas...

Another incredibly stupid assumption.

You are really showing your knowledge of the Middle East now...


if your a muslim than i understand why you support such wackos :rolleyes:


I am not a Muslim.


listen, i dont care if your fighting the evil forces of the devil, if your a terrorist, i can't take sides with you.

Attacking the US-led occupying forces is not "terrorism", no matter how much you repeat it.


Sure suicide bombers are a good tactical succes, they kill themselves and others indescriminantly, that is their purpouse, morally i can't support such a thing.

I only said that suicide bombers are a good and justifiable tactic if the targets are military and not civilian.

I would support such a weapon.


You might say than how come i support America, dude i don't care what you say

So why the fuck are you arguing with me?


but we do not go out there and say, let's drop this bomb where there are civilians and lets kill a couple of them.

No, you use the nice and precise cluster bombs and DU-tipped shells...


We get the intelligence

Like when Colin Powell showed the world Iraq's secret nuclear programme sites...


the building is the headquarters of such and such enemy

Like al Jazeera...


we drop it, if your there walking by than thats called collateral damage.

Just like the roadside bombs used by insurgents sometimes accidentally kill innocent civilians, yes?


Is it ok? well do we have an alternative?

What the fuck are you doing in Iraq in the first place?

Don't tell me, it was the threat Saddam posed, what with all his WMDs.

No, wait, that's not right, it was Saddam's links with al Qaeda and 9/11.

Woops, sorry, it was to liberate the Iraqi people through an occupation, that has resulted in a Civil War, wasn't it?

Wow, what a great job...


But what do you think will happen if these wacko insurgents you support take hold of government?

Compared to a situation in Iraq where hospitals lack basic equipment and the water supplies are filthy?

Compared to a situation in Iraq where the government has created death squads to deal with "insurgents" and "terrorists"?

Compared to a situation in Iraq where scores of people are being killed on a daily basis, and children cannot go to school?

Compared to a situation in Iraq where all intellectuals are being murdered or forced to leave?

Compared to a situation in Iraq that sees Civil War, if not significant signs of it?

The US has ruined Iraq ever since the first Gulf War with the disgusting sanctions and the recent invasion and occupation. Iraq used to at least have the best health care system in the Middle East. Western doctors even used to work in Iraqi hospitals.

Stop giving me hypothetical questions and tune into what is really happening in Iraq. The US has devastated the country, and it isn't going to get any better with continued occupation.

The Bush administration should apologise to the Iraqi people, leave and pay compensation for the billions of dollars worth of damage to the country, and theft/loss of Iraqi money from the "Development Fund for Iraq" that the occupation forces were in charge of.


I take it your going to be real happy with the Islamic Sharia Law government they will implant right :rolleyes:


The Iraqi people would probably prefer that to the occupation, which they want put to a end, as various polls have consistently shown.


and technically, those who have not even signed up for the Iraqi police are still citizens.


I have already addressed this point.

It is at best a grey area, and I can see why the insurgents attack them.


the fact is intifada, your supporting uncivilized terrorists.

No, I do not support the American and British governments that have terrorised Iraqi people since the early 1990s, through various mechanisms.

The American and British forces have simply proved that they are indeed "uncivilised" and act in a manner that would make any "terrorist" proud.


i mean they can create their own party if they want under the new democratic government of Iraq!! or if i want to create a separatist party in Iraq i wont be allowed? and make their changes with the people's votes.

Tell that to al Sadr, who when criticised the US occupation forces had his newspaper shut down by the glorious liberators themselves.

I was wrong, you are not naive, you are ignorant.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

No.

What a stupid assumption

so im naive and ignorant now? so let me get this straight , you support Iraqi insurgents who have suicide bombers, yet you don't support Hamas who does the exact same thing? you call that a stupid assumption? hahaha ohh man


Yes, because the Palestinian flag is a symbol of support for Hamas...Another incredibly stupid assumption.


hey, that's right, Hamas didn't win the election, sucks, only a small percentage voted for them :lol: yeah, gee, what a stupid assumption :rolleyes:


Attacking the US-led occupying forces is not "terrorism", no matter how much you repeat it.
yeah, if you attack them head on with AK's not blowing youself up in public places, otherwise, look up in the dictionary the word TERRORIST


I only said that suicide bombers are a good and justifiable tactic if the targets are military and not civilian.

I would support such a weapon.

justifiable? so why aren't we justifiable? they target Americans, but they kill civilians and Iraqis, we target the enemy, yet we get some collateral damage, ohhhh the IRONY! :lol:



No, you use the nice and precise cluster bombs and DU-tipped shells...

well, genious, what do you suggest? we blow ourselves up like the wackos you support? :lol:


Like when Colin Powell showed the world Iraq's secret nuclear programme sites...

a lie is a lie, and we accept it, and you seem to misunderstand me, i do not support our involvement in Iraq, but to support the insurgency!? :blink:


Like al Jazeera...

yeah man, we bombed the poor al Jazeera so many times :lol:



What the fuck are you doing in Iraq in the first place?

moron, i think it's a bit too late to be asking that don't you think? :rolleyes: the fact is, we got lied, and i denounce that, but we are in there now. It's worst if we leave, plus all the lives lost would have been lost in vain, we need to leave at least something positive in Iraq.


Compared to a situation in Iraq where hospitals lack basic equipment and the water supplies are filthy?

very true, under Saddam hospitals were gorgeous palaces with the most advanced medical technology and extremely clean :lol:


Compared to a situation in Iraq where the government has created death squads to deal with "insurgents" and "terrorists"?

ohh yeah that's so sad, if your a terrorist lets get you a nice cell with a spa and satellite TV :rolleyes:


Compared to a situation in Iraq where scores of people are being killed on a daily basis, and children cannot go to school?

lets see, if there wasn't an insurgency you with this would be happening? don't you think that if they were a bit intelligent, they would try to deal with the situation now that the Americans are there, try to get the countrie's infastructure going, and in a while Americans will leave, jesus we are fucking dying to leave the damn place!! why are you making it worst!!!


Compared to a situation in Iraq where all intellectuals are being murdered or forced to leave?

yeah what else happened under Saddam that we don't know about? :rolleyes:


The US has ruined Iraq ever since the first Gulf War with the disgusting sanctions and the recent invasion and occupation

yeah, those sanctions on Saddam were sooo disgusting, i mean the guy only invaded Kuwait burned all it's oil reserves, and gased Kurdish villages in northern Iraq, geez, those nasty americans!! hahhaha


The Bush administration should apologise to the Iraqi people, leave and pay compensation for the billions of dollars worth of damage to the country, and theft/loss of Iraqi money from the "Development Fund for Iraq" that the occupation forces were in charge of.

HUH!? WTF!! ahahahahaha, please man what are you smoking!? apologise? we liberated the freaking country from a freaking dicatator, all the Iraqis wanted that!! you hear!! and we have not devastated the country at all, it's the fucking insurgents!! the few who resist with violence, like i said, if they were intelligent, they would try to work with the system, their making it worst! we aint going to leave sooner if they keep acting like that are you not understing that at all??



No, I do not support the American and British governments that have terrorised Iraqi people since the early 1990s, through various mechanisms.

The American and British forces have simply proved that they are indeed "uncivilised" and act in a manner that would make any "terrorist" proud.

we terrorize? and we are not civilized? oooook, so i guess iraqi insurgents are not terrorists and are very highly civilized! please and you call me naive and ignorant? wow at least you sure make me laugh! thanks for that i appreciate it


Tell that to al Sadr, who when criticised the US occupation forces had his newspaper shut down by the glorious liberators themselves.

I was wrong, you are not naive, you are ignorant

well, lets see, we took out saddam, thats why we are there, and we are going to allow a Bin Laden/Saddam wanna be to gain control ? yeah right, plus it's what the people want, and im sure the people want us out, but at least the majority are not going to support wacko regimes!

[Intifada]

so im naive and ignorant now?

Yes, and you prove my analysis with the next few lines you wrote.


so let me get this straight , you support Iraqi insurgents who have suicide bombers, yet you don't support Hamas who does the exact same thing?

For the last bloody time:

I support suicide bombings as a tactic as long as it is used against military targets.

Please, get that through your thick skull.


you call that a stupid assumption? hahaha ohh man


I love the way you simply prove myself to be right each time you reply to me.


hey, that's right, Hamas didn't win the election, sucks, only a small percentage voted for them

I can go into the reasons as to why Hamas (a group that was supported and funded by Israel from the beginning of the 70s for a period of years, according to several current and former US intelligence officials, in order to provide a "counterweight" to PLO dominance) were victorious in the recent Palestinian elections, but for now I will continue to reply to your bullshit.


yeah, gee, what a stupid assumption

Yes it was a very stupid assumption, due to the fact that my avatar does not show any support for Hamas, but for the general Palestinian struggle against the illegal Israeli occupaion.

Again, you are proving my accusation that you are simply ignorant.


yeah, if you attack them head on with AK's not blowing youself up in public places, otherwise, look up in the dictionary the word TERRORIST


terrorism

n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear


[taken from dictionary.com]

As you can see, the use of violence against military targets, such as the US troops who are enforcing the occupation, is not "terrorism", no matter how much you repeat it.

That is the last time I will write that.


they target Americans, but they kill civilians and Iraqis, we target the enemy, yet we get some collateral damage, ohhhh the IRONY!

Do you even read my posts?

I have already pointed out the hypocrisy of your argument against insurgents who may accidentally kill innocent people. Indeed, I condemned attacks against Iraqi civilians by insurgents, who I described as people who are as bad as the occupation forces.


well, genious, what do you suggest?

Get out of Iraq, apologise for the destruction the invasion has directly or indirectly caused, and pay compensation to the Iraqi people so that reconstruction can be started and completed by Iraqis themselves, instead of Western companies.


yeah man, we bombed the poor al Jazeera so many times

Yes, you did.

The War on Al Jazeera (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051219/scahill)

How smart was this bomb? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,597067,00.html)

US missile hits Al-Jazeera office (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/08/1049567667355.html)

You really are ignorant.


It's worst if we leave, plus all the lives lost would have been lost in vain, we need to leave at least something positive in Iraq.


You actually assume that the US wants to install "democracy" in Iraq, and that is where your whole reasoning falls to bits.

The US wants control of Iraq, they do not want Iraqis to have control of Iraq, unless they act like puppets. The US is only interested in US interests.

Bush planned Iraq 'regime change' before becoming President (http://www.sundayherald.com/27735)

The bottom line is that Iraq is in the mess it is in because of the invasion, and the occupation has only made things worse. The situation will not get better with continued occupation.


very true, under Saddam hospitals were gorgeous palaces with the most advanced medical technology and extremely clean

Yes, they were.

I don't know why you find that so funny.

Iraqis Endure Worse Conditions Than Under Saddam, UN Survey Finds (http://newstandardnews.net/content/?items=1816)

I have met and know doctors from Britain who have worked in Iraq, largely due to the great quality of service it provided.


ohh yeah that's so sad, if your a terrorist lets get you a nice cell with a spa and satellite TV

The US and Iraqi forces do not simply attack "terrorists" alone. Innocent people have been killed and kidnapped in night-time raids and at checkpoints.

SAS soldier quits Army in disgust at 'illegal' American tactics in Iraq (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml)

He added that many innocent civilians were arrested in night-time raids and interrogated by American soldiers, imprisoned in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, or handed over to the Iraqi authorities and "most probably" tortured.


lets see, if there wasn't an insurgency you with this would be happening?

There wouldn't have been, and there would be, no insurgency of the troops are pulled out.


yeah what else happened under Saddam that we don't know about?

The slaughter of Iraq's intellectuals (http://www.newstatesman.com/200409060018)

The US call it "de-Baathification".


yeah, those sanctions on Saddam were sooo disgusting, i mean the guy only invaded Kuwait burned all it's oil reserves, and gased Kurdish villages in northern Iraq, geez, those nasty americans!! hahhaha


Yes, and the US response was to attack and as a result murder at least half a million innocent Iraqis, the majority of whom were children.

That makes 9/11 seem like a fucking picnic.

Oh, and who was it that gave Saddam the weapons to gas the Kurds anyway?

Those nasty Americans.


we liberated the freaking country from a freaking dicatator, all the Iraqis wanted that!! you hear!!

You removed a dictator and replaced it with... military occupation, civil war, theft of Iraqi money and did I mention military occupation?

What a liberation!

By the way, the majority of Iraqis want an end to the occupation, with one poll even showing that 47% of Iraqis support attacks on troops, and in fact, 72% of US troops want out of Iraq in a year (http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Poll_72_percent_of_troops_want_0228.html).


and we have not devastated the country at all, it's the fucking insurgents!!

Yes, it was the insurgents that invaded the country and they were also the ones who imposed the devastating sanctions on the Iraqi people...

Your arguments are quite childish.


we aint going to leave sooner

Of course not.

That would go against Bush's intentions.


we terrorize?

Night-time raids?

Torture?


and we are not civilized?

Again, torture?

That is not civilised, and it is not a "one-off" incident either. The US has a history of using torture.


, so i guess iraqi insurgents are not terrorists and are very highly civilized!

The Iraqis who attack civilians are not civilised.

I have never denied such a thing.

Read my fucking posts!


we are going to allow a Bin Laden/Saddam wanna be to gain control ?

Al Sadr is a Shiite leader, whose family was particularly persecuted by Saddam. Bin Laden and al Qaeda are not fans of Shiite Muslims.

Again, you really are showing your ignorance.


yeah right, plus it's what the people want

Al Sadr has a massive support that gives him more than enough legitimacy.

You seriously know nothing about the situation in Iraq.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

alright, so let me get this clear. In conclusion, your solution to Iraq's problems would be, that US and coalition forces withdraw, ok fair enough. What do you think will happen after that? what is your master plan after we leave Iraq? who is going to aid them? and PLEASE NO!! don't tell me, the UN, don't tell me any other country, because you oppose all foreign "intrusion" in Iraq!!! because we America want to help!!we have the capacity to help, our people are there to HELP!!! if those wacko's you support weren't there, our military forces wouldn't have to be dropping bombs or raiding places, in fact it would probably be muuuuuuuch more less military pressance!!!

you know what, as a matter of fact, i do wish we left right now in this instant, and sit back and watch as more and more will die in a full scale civil war. But even so, i know we are not goint to leave, so this conversation is irrelevant. At the end of the day, like Putin said, "we don't deal with terrorists, we crush them".

[Enragé]

which shows further how much the KGB and the USA are alike

(putin = ex-KGB)

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 30 2006, 08:12 PM
what is your master plan after we leave Iraq? who is going to aid them? and PLEASE NO!! don't tell me, the UN, don't tell me any other country, because you oppose all foreign "intrusion" in Iraq!!!
Read this. (http://www.ips-dc.org/iraq/bringthetroops.htm)


because we America want to help!!

Help by listening to the Iraqi people, and get out.


if those wacko's you support weren't there

Those "wacko's" are there because of the invasion.

Stop denying this simple fact.


At the end of the day, like Putin said, "we don't deal with terrorists, we crush them".

Yes, Putin is a great man...

:rolleyes:

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Read this.

thats too long and im lazy :D it would be better if you just sum it up for me.


Help by listening to the Iraqi people, and get out

but , that's the thing, us going out is going to change their view in their mind that they are not "occupied" by a foreign country, this will help their ideology in their minds, but this will not help the current situation in Iraq.


Those "wacko's" are there because of the invasion.

Stop denying this simple fact.

who says im denying it? the fact is whe are already there, and you more than anyone knows our troops want to get the fuck out of there, but since those fucking insurgents keep messing it up, than it's not helping at all their cause. It's ironic, they blow themselves up killing their own countryman for us to get out, when the fact is if they keep doing this it is only delaying our stay!! dont you understand that???



Yes, Putin is a great man...

well, considering the fact that his reforms have gotten Russia out of the shithole Yeltsin dragged it to, yes, he is a great president, he is strong, and thats what Russia needs. And, let me guess? you also support the Chechnyans? :lol: ohh please, get out of my sight intifada, well i mean, you also support the Palestinians!! what kind of shit is that? Pretty much you support anyone who uses AK-47's , wears a robe around their head to hide their faces, and call themselves revolutionary freedom fighters.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 31 2006, 11:26 PM
thats too long and im lazy :D it would be better if you just sum it up for me.
I think that just about sums up your complete idiocy.


but , that's the thing, us going out is going to change their view in their mind that they are not "occupied" by a foreign country, this will help their ideology in their minds, but this will not help the current situation in Iraq.


The vast majority of the insurgency is made up of Iraqis who are simply angry at the occupation and the crimes being committed by those foreign troops who are enforcing the occupation.

If you take away the occupation, there will undoubtedly be a fall in insurgent activity. Indeed, then Iraq could concentrate more on the job of reconstruction.


the fact is if they keep doing this it is only delaying our stay!! dont you understand that???

The US has no plans of leaving Iraq any time soon. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4834032.stm)

The insurgency is not a factor in when troops will leave Iraq, as far as Bush is concerned.


you also support the Chechnyans?

In the face of Russian terror, yes.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

I think that just about sums up your complete idiocy.

so being lazy has a link to people being stupid, wow, thanks for that insightful scientific theory :lol:


The vast majority of the insurgency is made up of Iraqis who are simply angry at the occupation and the crimes being committed by those foreign troops who are enforcing the occupation.

If you take away the occupation, there will undoubtedly be a fall in insurgent activity. Indeed, then Iraq could concentrate more on the job of reconstruction

no shit , we already know that, but you know we aint gonna leave, so, what's it gonna be? fucking up your country even more, killing more of your own countryman, and making us even more pissed off and more frustrated and going on rampages crushing all of you? or you let us do our job, and wait for us to get the fuck out which will be much sooner if you just leave us alone!


The insurgency is not a factor in when troops will leave Iraq, as far as Bush is concerned.

You think Bush will be president forever? you know that in the next elections, who ever is going to run, their presidential campaign is pretty much going to be on the resolution on Iraq, which will obviously push for far drastic changes than the ones present.



In the face of Russian terror, yes.

so in your opinion, every separatist group in the world is not the terrorist and they are the "good guys"? ETA are not terrorists, Hamas are not terrorists, Chechens are not terrorists even though they stormed a theater in Moscow, and a school? or something whatever it was in Magadan i think? full of childre? killing innocents... so all these actions are pretty much justifiable because of Russian "terror". Get a grip of yourself intifada, i mean look at your name "INTIFADA", jesus! haha i bet most people here don't know what that means, you sure are a radical.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 2 2006, 12:21 AM
so being lazy has a link to people being stupid, wow, thanks for that insightful scientific theory :lol:
id·i·o·cy
n. pl. id·i·o·cies

1. Extreme folly or stupidity.
2. A foolish or stupid utterance or deed.
3. Psychology. The state or condition of being an idiot; profound mental retardation.

[taken from dictionary.com]

I believe that your posts in this thread and others is enough evidence that you are in a state of "profound mental retardation", of which "laziness", or not being able to read articles that are "too long", is a symptom.


no shit , we already know that, but you know we aint gonna leave, so, what's it gonna be?

Of course Bush ism't going to end the occupation.

Therefore, the Iraqis will have to kick the occupiers out, just like the Vietnamese kicked the US out, a few decades back.


or you let us do our job, and wait for us to get the fuck out which will be much sooner if you just leave us alone!

You assume that Bush is in Iraq to do some kind of favour for the Iraqi people. Of course, suchan assumption is extremely naive.


You think Bush will be president forever?

The alternative is no better.

Indeed, Clinton played a massive role in the sanctions regime that killed so many hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi people, most of whom were children.


so in your opinion, every separatist group in the world is not the terrorist and they are the "good guys"?

I didn't realise I wrote that.

Maybe I am losing my memory a bit.

Would you kindly provide me with a quote where I state such a thing?


ETA are not terrorists, Hamas are not terrorists

Their responses are understandable.

But let us not derail this thread.


Chechens are not terrorists even though they stormed a theater in Moscow, and a school?

For the record, again, I condemn all attacks on civilians.

Therefore, stop posting bullshit assumptions.

The attacks against the theatre and school were simply the result of continued Russian war crimes against the Chechnyan people. However, such consequences cannot be condoned.

Some interesting information that you conveniently ignore, regarding Russian crimes in Chechnya:

THE "DIRTY WAR" IN CHECHNYA (http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/chechnya/)

"NO HAPPINESS REMAINS": CIVILIAN KILLINGS, PILLAGE, AND RAPE IN ALKHAN-YURT, CHECHNYA (http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/russia_chechnya2/)

Russian war crimes and genocide (http://www.gfbv.it/3dossier/cecenia/cecen-en.html)


killing innocents... so all these actions are pretty much justifiable because of Russian "terror".

I never claimed they were "justifiable".

Please, show me where I "justify" Chechnyan terrorism.


Get a grip of yourself intifada, i mean look at your name "INTIFADA", jesus! haha i bet most people here don't know what that means, you sure are a radical.

Wow!

You really are an idiot.

Seeing as you are such a clever guy, you can tell me how exactly the Arabic word "Intifada" is such an evil thing.

:lol:

[Oh-Dae-Su]

1. Extreme folly or stupidity.
2. A foolish or stupid utterance or deed.
3. Psychology. The state or condition of being an idiot; profound mental retardation.

either i really am stupid, or i don't see the connection between lazy and stupid at all. Or, the other option is, that there is no obvious connection, and i did ridicule you on how you used it, and therefore, you really are an idiot.



I believe that your posts in this thread and others is enough evidence that you are in a state of "profound mental retardation", of which "laziness", or not being able to read articles that are "too long", is a symptom.

BUAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!! lmao!! :lol: ohh god thats just too funny!! ahahahhahaha, so now laziness= stupidity and mental retardation!! BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! ohh man hahahahahaha thanks for that intifada hahahahah, the funniest thing is, that you keep coming back and keep replying to a "mentally retarded" person, therefore seems that stupidity is a magnet for you, ahahhahaa


You assume that Bush is in Iraq to do some kind of favour for the Iraqi people. Of course, suchan assumption is extremely naive

yet again, this is not North Korea or wherever the hell your from that no elections are held , but in 2 years time this country will replace Bush for another president, therefore changes will come.


I didn't realise I wrote that.

Maybe I am losing my memory a bit.

Would you kindly provide me with a quote where I state such a thing?

do you know what "infering" is? do you know what an "impression" is? sometimes you don't have to open your mouth to know what your thinking, your such and idiot man seriously



Their responses are understandable.

But let us not derail this thread

well with that assumption, with that idiology, every action is understandable!! :rolleyes: , geee, i guess Stalin is understandable as well, he wanted to solidify his power, so therefore it is understandable!! damn Intifada , i wish i could think like you and not be a mental retard anymore :lol:

and stop giving me all the sources of Russian crimes, im not denying the Russians have done horrible things, but for that matter so have the Chechnyans. Both sides are the same, so there is no point in making an arguemnt there.



I never claimed they were "justifiable".

Please, show me where I "justify" Chechnyan terrorism.

sure no problem:



you also support the Chechnyans?



In the face of Russian terror, yes.


Seeing as you are such a clever guy, you can tell me how exactly the Arabic word "Intifada" is such an evil thing

it's the context in which it has been used, im a 100 percent positive that if my name was "CRUSADER", you would be like: OHH YOU SUPPORT BUSH! YOU SUPPORT THE FIGHT AGAINST THE PALESTINIANS! so on and so on, it's the history of the word. The link , you idiot, it's the link, to the word , the association the word has to things in history. Like for example, JIHAD! this might be too much for your HomoErechtus brain to take Intifada but i understand....

anyway here is the link for the word intifada, if it's not related to anything negative, than you sureley are an idiot. Basically the word means uprising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intifada

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 2 2006, 10:36 PM
so now laziness= stupidity and mental retardation!! ,



I said that "laziness", or not being able to read something because it is "too long", is a symptom of complete mental retardation, or idiocy.


that you keep coming back and keep replying to a "mentally retarded" person

Well done!

Accepting that you have a problem is the first step in curing yourself.

I'm just trying to help.


yet again, this is not North Korea or wherever the hell your from that no elections are held , but in 2 years time this country will replace Bush for another president, therefore changes will come.


Whatever.

You ignored my post yet again.


do you know what "infering" is?

Do you know what "assuming" is.

You do it very often, and it is very stupid.


and stop giving me all the sources of Russian crimes, im not denying the Russians have done horrible things, but for that matter so have the Chechnyans. Both sides are the same, so there is no point in making an arguemnt there.


I wouldn't say they are the "same".

If Russia completely carpet bombs Chechnya and it's people to bits, the Russians should expect retaliation, and that retaliation was not going to be pretty.


sure no problem:


I "support" the cause for Chechnyan independence.


it's the context in which it has been used

Yes.

It has been used in the context of occupation, something I am sure the American people would support if they found themselves in such a position.

Wait a minute, they have! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War)


The link , you idiot, it's the link, to the word , the association the word has to things in history. Like for example, JIHAD!

It has no link to such a term, which is purely Islamic.

Read the Qur'an if you are interested.


anyway here is the link for the word intifada, if it's not related to anything negative, than you sureley are an idiot. Basically the word means uprising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intifada

So, you do not know the meaning of the word.

You looked it up on the trusted wikipedia.

The Arabic word "Intifada" finds it's roots in the word "nafada", which means "to shake".

As a verb, the Arabic word "Intifada" means "to be shaken".

As a noun it means, "shaking off", "shudder", "awakening" or, more simply, "uprising".

The word was first used in 1987, to describe the first Palestinian uprising against Israeli military rule, which they have since tried to "shake off".

The French resistance against the Nazis could be described in such a way.

I do not see anything "negative" about shaking off the chains of occupation.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Well done!

Accepting that you have a problem is the first step in curing yourself.

I'm just trying to help

hahaha, ohh man!! just when i thought i had heard it all!! it turn out now, that mental retardation CAN BE CURED!!! :lol: BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!



Whatever.

You ignored my post yet again.

yeah WHATEVER DUDE!! hahahaha good stuff man



Do you know what "assuming" is.

You do it very often, and it is very stupid.

yeah assuming, meaning to make an educated guess which is what i have done, yet you think they have no connection at all with what you say, which shows how badly you don't want to be beaten


I "support" the cause for Chechnyan independence.

why? how come you didn't support it under the USSR? because USSR was leftist? in that case lets free every fucking region in the world, 1000 countries would exist, guess what!! Chechens are not the only ethinic minority in Russia, GET OVER IT!, let me guess you support Basque fight for independance too? guess what, it's over, they put down their activities and the Basque people don't want independance anyway!




I wouldn't say they are the "same".

If Russia completely carpet bombs Chechnya and it's people to bits, the Russians should expect retaliation, and that retaliation was not going to be pretty.

so who started it? if you pick the fight, don't be craying after.



Yes.

It has been used in the context of occupation, something I am sure the American people would support if they found themselves in such a position.

im not talking about the meaning, THE MEANING!! YOU MORON!! im talking about the people, the groups whom this word has been associated WITH!!! get that through your NEANDERTHAL HOMO ERECHTUS PEA SIZE BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!



So, you do not know the meaning of the word.

You looked it up on the trusted wikipedia.

what do you think i am? a human encyclopedia? or a human dictionary? let me guess, you were born with knowledge of this word already programmed in your brain? you didn't have to look somwhere to find the meaning of the word? :rolleyes:


I do not see anything "negative" about shaking off the chains of occupation.

again, stop evading my point, it's the people who have used it, radicals like YOU! terrorists! etc.

[Intifada]

:rolleyes:

I can't be bothered replying to your crap.

I have debated many people with opposing views, but none of them have been as ignorant as you.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

again, another point for moi! ehehehehe this is how you concede? well than im out PEACE!