Brazil

[BRIN]

I haven't heard much new lately last i heard the lula's revolutionnary party won by 70% of the vote

[Subcomandante Marcos]

jajajaja, those are some really old new, Luiz Inacio Lula Da Silva assumed the presidency of Brasil the 1 of January, he belongs to the PT (Workers Party) and he was a former working man himself.

He believes in the change and is socialist to my belief, he wants to battle hunger and poberty above all things since he himslef suffered of those things.

He is the future of America, not afraid to speak up like most of the latinamerica's presidents nowadays

[Larissa]

Marcos you're absolutely right. Lula is the future of Latin America indeed. He also helds the annual meeting "World Social Forum" in Sao Paulo.

[Resorte]

I agree with you, I think righ now Lula is all we have, un ejemplo que las revoluciones puras como las del Che son una utopia y tenes que transar con el imperio sino te cierran todos las puertas como a Cuba. Si Lula echa a la mierda a todas las corporaciones norteamericanas por ejemplo y pone un gobierno progresista como la guatemala del 54’ les parece que va a llegar a algun lado? Es solo mi humilde opinion de un sabado a la noche con un par de cervezas encima, enojado porque en mi pais hay chicos cagandose de hambre y yo aca en Estados Unidos como un pelotudo de brazos cruzados

(Edited by Resorte at 6:17 am on Mar. 30, 2003)

[Larissa]

Aguante resorte!! No te preocupes que acá estoy armando lgo tipo los zapatistas, sólo que recién empiezo y me va a llevar unos 5 años tener todo listo para irme al norte a proteger a aquellos que se mueren de hambre ( y que se van a seguir muriendo, lamentablementablemente, si nadie hace nada.) Cuando tenga todo más cocinado te aviso y nos ponemos a trabajar juntos :biggrin:

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Larissa on 12:45 am on Mar. 30, 2003
Marcos you're absolutely right. Lula is the future of Latin America indeed. He also helds the annual meeting "World Social Forum" in Sao Paulo.



His social and economic reform are reasons to praise him enough.

He toook his entire staff out to walk through Brazil's ghettos and slums to see them first hand

also what amazes me is his refusal to sign on with the Free Trade of Americas agreement


cuz the US is pressuring Latin American Countries to join but brazil has stayed strong

especially since bush's administration has gone out of their way to insult Lula's administration

[redstar2000]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/business/2899637.stm

Let's keep the champagne on ice a while longer, folks.

:cool:

[Larissa]

Well, redsatr, the article applies to what Resorte was referring to. Lula has to deal with the WB in order not to be isolated from the rest of the world like Cuba has been (embargo). IMO, actually Lula is seeking to secure the Mercosur and that is not bad, even when it refers to a "Capitalist" measure. What I mean is that the Mercosur is too strong for the US imperialism to destroy it. When Clinton visited Argentina (Menem-shitty was then the prez) he tried to do his best to destroy the Mercosur because it strongly opposes to the Free Trade of Am. agreem't.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from redstar2000 on 4:15 pm on Mar. 30, 2003
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/business/2899637.stm

Let's keep the champagne on ice a while longer, folks.

:cool:

Redstar his people are starving

he isn't Mao

this man is a socialist but he is looking out for the well being of his people


he can't sacrafice people for pride

[Anonymous]

well Lula isnt realy marxist nor "communist" socialist anymore..
he is now a kind of "burguase" socialist...

i do not mean by this taht he is a enemy of the people or anything...
he just wount make a correct socialist state, firstly, he does not mean to make a socialist state nor work for communism, he means to improve the life of the brazilian people, wich is very poor..
acording to him he doesnt mean to build a socialist state but to "humanize capitalism" by otehr words he wants to distribute the wealth amongst the people bether...
he is good...
since he cannot build a socialist state in brazil, mainly due to america, but also becuase he cannot do it without the suport of any superpower, and these are bad days for socialism, expecially now that CCCP fell...

so Lula is trying to makie things bether for the people, he is trying to achieve some lighter socialism, yet with a litle more work he can build a perfect socialsit state, its up to him and the brazilian people....


(btw im geting a Lula´s avatar!!! who wants it too???)

[Anonymous]

ok so i got tired of Lula and decided to have marx as avatar.....

but this doesnt mean i dont like him :P

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from the anarchist on 1:31 am on Mar. 31, 2003
well Lula isnt realy marxist nor "communist" socialist anymore..
he is now a kind of "burguase" socialist...

i do not mean by this taht he is a enemy of the people or anything...
he just wount make a correct socialist state, firstly, he does not mean to make a socialist state nor work for communism, he means to improve the life of the brazilian people, wich is very poor..
acording to him he doesnt mean to build a socialist state but to "humanize capitalism" by otehr words he wants to distribute the wealth amongst the people bether...
he is good...
since he cannot build a socialist state in brazil, mainly due to america, but also becuase he cannot do it without the suport of any superpower, and these are bad days for socialism, expecially now that CCCP fell...

so Lula is trying to makie things bether for the people, he is trying to achieve some lighter socialism, yet with a litle more work he can build a perfect socialsit state, its up to him and the brazilian people....


(btw im geting a Lula´s avatar!!! who wants it too???)


If he could make a socialist state I think he would but unfortuntely his people come first

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Lula is doing more towards socialism than the PCdoB or the PCB would ever do. He is refusing to be a ***** of the US, something that few would ever do.

I'm getting some PT t-shits, I think you get them online at the webiste.

[Fabetz]

Larissa, o Fórum Social Mundial é em Porto Alegre, não em São Paulo. Mas tudo bem, falou em Brasil e a maioria das pessoas se lembra de São Paulo e Rio de Janeiro.
Pior mesmo foi o resultado de uma pesquisa que mostrou que a maioria dos Norte-Ameicano$ achava que a capital do brasil era Buenos Aires!

Como brasileiro que sou, militante político e de movimentos sociais, acho que tenho o direito de falar algumas coisas...

Acredito que é muito facil falar mal de alguém e dizer que Lula não é Socialista ou que é a favor de um capitalismo humanizado.
Mas como dizem por aí: A teoria na pratica é outra.
E Lula percebeu isso.
A tragetória politica de Lula é surpreendente, nao porque ele veio da pobreza, mas porque ele veio da míséria.
Ele acretita sim no socialismo. Mas um regime socialista nao funcionaria no Brasil de hoje. O povo é muito ignorante e grande mídia é altamente reacionária. Estamos fazendo um grande trabalho de base de conscientização das camadas populares. E isso leva muitos anos.

Uma coisa é falar de governo socialista no conforto de uma bela casa nos EUA, outra é a viver na realidade brasileira, ou na Latino-Americana.
O povo precisa urgentemente de comida saúde e educação. Só depois disso passarao a acreditar em muitas coisas...

Lula é sim o futuro da america latina, apenas se a uniao dos paises for realmente concretizada. Pra isso precisamos de uma união dos povos.
Quem foi para o Forum Social Mundial viu como isso está perto de acontecer.


Larissa: O governo está fazendo um projeto de intercambio cientifico entre universidades latino americanas, e o povo argentino está ajudando muito!
Parabéns pelo povo argentino! Estamos sempre juntos, somos irmãos!

Nos temos Lula para ficarmos orgulhosos, mas vocês tem pessoas como Hebe Bonafini...



... e se puder, traduza isso aí...

[peaccenicked]

To me, Lula is only one step forward in undermining US hegemony in Latin America, but he is no Lenin, more like a Kerenksy. In time the people's cause will be asserted.

[redstar2000]

I guess I'm just an "old party pooper." :cheesy:

If anyone cannot resist the temptation to hail Lula as "the next Fidel"...by all means, enjoy your champagne.

But you do not generally get endorsements from the head of the World Bank, much less actual cash, without paying a price. Historically, that price has always been paid by the working class (union busting, privatization, loss of pension benefits, decline in public services, etc.).

Believe, if you will, that "this time will be different." But if you're sensible, you should at least be willing to wait and see how things turn out.

There's no hangover more hellish than one that comes from premature celebration.

:cool:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

This is what Fabetz said, except in English. If I made any major mistakes, I'm deeply sorry.

Larissa, the World-wide Social Forum is in Porto Alegre, not in São Paulo. *But all right, most people, when speaking of Brazil are reminded of Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro. Worse was the result of a research that showed that the majority of the North-Ameican$ found that the capital of Brazil was Buenos Aires! *As the Brazilian that I am, militant politician and of social movements, I find that I have the right of saying some things... *I believe that it is very easy to speak badly of somebody and to say that Lula is not Socialist or that he is in favor of humanitarian capitalism. *But as they say: *The theory in practises, is another one. *And Lula perceived this. *The political *goals of Lula are surprising, not because he came from the poverty, but because he came from the misery.He believes in Socialism. *But a socialist regime would not function in Present-day Brazil. *The people are very ignorant and * the media is highly reactionary. And this takes many years. *A thing is to speak of socialist government in the comfort of a beautiful house in U.S.A., another one is to live in the Brazilian reality, or the Latin American. The people are in urgent need of food, health, and education. Only after this, can we achieve many many things. Lula is the future of Latin America, only if the unification of nations becomes concrete. *For this we need a union of the peoples. *Whoever attended the World-wide Social Forum saw that this is close to happening. *Larissa: *The government is making a project of scientific interchanges between Latin-American universities, and the people of Argentina are very helpful! *Congratulations for the people of Argentina! *We are always together, we are brothers! *We have Lula to be proud of, but you have people like Hebe Bonafini.

[Resorte]

Thanks for the translation

[Larissa]

Fabetz! Cuánto lo siento, me equivoqué muy feo! :smile: Sorry about that. BTW, my partner attended the Porto Alegre WS Forum this feb.

Thanks for correcting me!

[Cassius Clay]

Hmm LuLa's victory is encouranging however I feel that as some people have allready said he is no Communist or even Socialist. His policies are allready to a cerrtain extent being dictated by Washington, in that he had to promise to pay Brazil's debt.

There are far more revolutionary groups in Brazil that would set about changing the massive inequalities in society better than Lula would. The only problem is they appear to be backing LuLa for the moment.

Have sympathy with the man though. I'm sure he like Chavez remembers Chile and Allende or the death squards throughout the continent in the 80's. They have reason to be cautious.

Having said that were Lenin and the Bolsheviks cautious in 1917? No and they faced a far larger threat.

Conclusion. LuLa's election will benefit the Brazillian people, as the Chavez government has benefited the Venezuluan's. However these guys are not Communists of any sought and they can only benefit the people so much.

Strange though that the recent election in Ecuador is totally ignored, genuine Marxists have come to power there and are not scarred about telling the world, the U$ and their own Capitalist elite that they are going to change society for the better. The only problem is nobody appears to be listening.

[Larissa]

Fabetz, you've just reminded me of something about the people in the US. Back in 1975 I was living in Michigan, USA and I was attending a public school, must have been in 7th or 8th grade, and whenever I said I was from Argentina, people said: Oh! That's Brazil isn't it?

BTW, I've been to Brazil many times (Rio, Sao Paulo) and Porto Alegre twice by bus!!! 20-hour trip by bus from Buenos Aires :biggrin:

(Edited by Larissa at 6:57 pm on Mar. 31, 2003)

[Guardia Bolivariano]

Lula will be meeting Chavez soon in his first visit to Venezuela to begin a combined project to achieve their goals for a new latinamerican pole.

[Subcomandante Marcos]

I lived in Hawaii from the 98 to the 00 and when i said Chile first they asked me if it was near France, then when i said South America they asked if we had television and if we had tribes.....??

i still laugh, no wonder they live in their American Dream world.

You cant compare Lula and Che, Che believed in the revolution blindless and for that we worship him !! but i see in Lula the politician we all want, a person that can be president with no frauds, no big campaigns misleading people, false promises, scams, and many things this "DEMOCRATIC" Republics are doing, he is the true politician.

Politics is not a prefession, is and art (like the word says), Lula is the salvador ali (my favorite artist :D) of the Res Publica (Public Thing). i truely see him as the 21th century Che, taking the revolution one step beyond, opposing to the US, promoting the Mercosur and fucking with the free trade agreement, which is a fraude my country is trying to get into.

ALL PRAISE LUIS INACIO LULA DA SILVA !!!! FOR HE IS THE FUTURE