the way children are raised - how to brainwash a 5 year old

[Subcomandante Marcos]

It was awesome to see in TV dozens of children running on the washington's street yelling for their comradse fighting evil in the middle east (even if they dont know where that is), they had american flags painted across their faces (i wonder if they painted it themselves), yelling chants of liberty along with parents and teachers.

This is a clear sign of how the U$ brainwashes the little kids minds to believe anything they say, they are taught to sing to the flag, to write poetry about how much they love their country and all of them want to be in the army to defend their country, but how much of this is true ??

If this kids dont see the light soon enough a couple of years ahead there will be another president yelling to kill the unworthy people in some country they cant even pronounce, and there will be millions of now grown up kids that will support them since they have been taught to blindly believe in everything, if you tell one of them that half the world is in extreme poverty because 6% of the population controls 50% of the wealth they'll probably call you a commie and yell at you, and they'll die this way.

This makes us reflectionate on how the youth of our countries are contaminated, and it makes me personally think on how im going to raise my kids on the future.
I'm not going to paint anything on their faces, I'm not going to make them sing worthless anthems, I'm not going to make them read fat books, I'm going to let them be, at most to orientate them.

[Wolfie]

I back you 100% on this comrade. They are brainwashed, all the politics they know is THE flag and THE anthem and THE president etc.

[Larissa]

Quote: from Subcomandante Marcos on 9:50 pm on Mar. 28, 2003

I'm not going to paint anything on their faces, I'm not going to make them sing worthless anthems, I'm not going to make them read fat books, I'm going to let them be, at most to orientate them.
:biggrin: That's sounds like the way I raised up mine. They have their own beliefs and I respect them. They know how to respect other people as well, and IMO, that's the best you can do if you want your kids to grow up as free and happy adults.

[BRIN]

I read somewhere in the anarchist cook book that what Moa did was give 12-16 year old kids guns and tell them who's evil and then he had a killing machine with no remorse no brains and will keep fighting regardless of how much danger there is.Hitler did the same thing and it's sad to see that america is doing the same thing making soliders look like hero's thus making arse hole role models for the kid's so one day the kids will be arse holes to

[mentalbunny]

Well upbringing makes so much difference, it made loads of difference for me at least, but it's really hard to get the balance right with kids. I just guess that at a certain age, not too early cos you'll probably just confuse them, they need two sides to every story. maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it seems like to me.

[Pete]

In the last 2 years I have read 4 or 5 articles on how everything that you ever truly use (morals, politics, ect) you learn by kindergarten. From the strict rules on staying in line, and listening to authority to how to not to share and amke it seeming liek you do. Youth are malleble, and I agree wtih MentalBunny you need two sides of everything.

Not only do children need this but so do adults. I know many of my peers watch CNN with there parents in order to get there news and then use that as there basing for my Politics class discussion. They say things and have only one side with no background. While the ones who go to the CBC hear the same news from the CNN plus they get the other side aswell. Instead of displaying one and not the other, CBC gives you both, and then what our government thinks. That way you have anti america, pro america, and neutral (since the Canadian government is struggling to stay neutral).

[soulrise925]

your childhood upbringing is definitely important, but i wonder to what extent? for example, how many of your parents were leftist and raised you to be the same? in my case at least my parents were at best (or worst) moderate liberals. my own set of politics developed once i started studying how the economic system of capitalism was responsible for the conditions i was forced to live through.

in the end i think the best that parents can do is to allow their child to come to their own beliefs. attempts to indoctrinate your children will probably only backfire.

[Pete]

My dad is a rightwing Canadian. Which basically means he is left compared to the American Democratic Party, but sits well with the Progressive Conservatives. My mom is a Liberal, and has more rightleaning tendancies.

I am how I am because I always had opinions or questions, and now that I can find the answers for them I have learned that I am an anachro-communist. I do not know any definition of it, other than I do not agree wtih authority and support communism.

Early in life one of my brothers died, he is a lasting influence, even though he died when I was 6. That is irrelevant, since early childhood influneces the rest of your life. Teach a child submission and they will have trouble breaking it as they get older.

[Soul Rebel]

Upbringing definitely has an influence. You basically learn everything from peers and family when young. I was extremely lucky with how i was raised. While my friends were raised in american households with extremely uptight parents (homophobes, racists, etc.) i was raised in a 100% spanish family with very different political backgrounds. My parents are very liberal (pro-choice, not racist, totally support gay rights, etc.) and pretty much set me up for becoming who i am today (my paternal grandpa was a leftist during the spanish war and my paternal grandma was rightwing; one of my uncles is a commie, all my cousins are socialists; my maternal grandparents are liberal). I also had the opportunity to learn another history (my spanish history), which is important because you see another way of life. This pretty much encouraged me to continue learning about other countries and cultures.

But anyways- my parents also broke the gender roles in society. I was always taught to be tough and stick up for myself, even though i am female. other girls i know were not raised to be the same. both my brother and i were treated the same- gender was not an issue. this is another reason why we turned out the way we did> open minded.

[YerbaMateJ]

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the Republic, for witches stand, One nation under God, invisible with liberty and justice for all."

I know for a fact that that is how some kids recite the pledge at school here in the u$. Over and over again. To tell you the truth, that is probably a more accurate version! Heehee!

I've never had a kid, but if I did, I would not raise them in the United States of America. No way.

Wherever I do raise them, I will teach them to share, be kind to humans and animals, the environment, to read read read and think for themselves. Then it is up to them.

YMj:)

[Pete]

I find it silly that they pledge to a flag.

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 8:18 pm on Mar. 29, 2003
I find it silly that they pledge to a flag.

I can still hear the teachers now: "Please stand. Put your right hand over your heart. Ready? Begin."

One teacher I had was VERY anal about the whole pledge thing. He made us sing along with the National Anthem on the PA system--- and we had to stand straight--- and our hats had to be off--- Jesus. He had a lot of silent rage about it. And when you are in junior high, what do you know? You think that is what you are supposed to do.

I remember he was missing a finger or something. Maybe he fought in Nam or something and that is why he was so adamant. Who knows.

YMj:biggrin:

[Wolfie]

It is just like nazi germany, where they all had to stand and sing the anthem, only insted of jews its muslims, well mabye thats going too far, but thats what it seems like.

[mentalbunny]

No, Wolfie I think you made a fair enough comparison, although the US is not quite so extreme.

I think the key point in the upbringing of any child is empathy and sharing. My parents are proper christians, if you get me, love thy enemy kind of stuff, so that had a huge impact on me, my mum brought me up to be sensitive to other people.

[Red Revolution]

yeah, go team!

(Edited by Red Revolution at 12:07 am on Mar. 30, 2003)

[Wolfie]

Are you very religios Mentalbunny? I mean, like your parents. I think that social values like the ones that your parents very rightly told you dont need to come from religion. If you are religios thats fine, i mean no offence.

[Resorte]

My kids are growing up in America but they already are getting to know Che, hopefully they are the future of this country which is going to change the world. By the way my kids are 2 years and 8 months old.

[hazard]

The biggest brainwashing tools of the Capitlaists are their ridiculus holidays. Thats how you condition these five year olds to do whatever you want. Promise of material filth.

[Umoja]

I'm gonna stand out and say that brainwashing isn't exactly bad. The reason the human race has advanced so far is because we have old information at our finger tips. Certain people will develop beyond what they are taught at a certain point, but those that don't weren't going to develop many of there own opinions in the first place. I've looked at old pictures of how my parents 'brainwashed' me. It was quite funny. All my baby pictures have me in African style clothing. Funny.

[esposa]

See the problem is that when you have such a strong media force, raising children these days is not simply loving them, and trying to explain right from wrong. I have first graders who asked some police officers if they ever killed anyone, and was it fun to shoot their guns. I work in a wealthy area, with parents who waited until their whole life was in order before having kids. They are involved in the PTA, and volunteer on a regular basis. So how can you explain when their child is drawing guns better than most military experts could. The parents laugh, and say "well it's just too much tv". So then that kid grows up thinking it's okay to blow people away, and why not, they did it on tv, and I drew guns I saw on tv, and hey, that was okay. Everyone says the media should have freedom of speech, and that parents are responsible for telling their children what is right and wrong, but again, when the media is in your house with your child at least as often as you are, how are you supposed to ensure that your child hears your message louder? We are all socialized human beings, which by definition means that generally, you conform to social standards, so if the media is setting the tone (which is obvious by how many people have eat disorders) how do we expect our kids not to get some of the message that violence is okay? It scares me to wonder if I will be able to keep my own children from believing violence is okay, when the media's "society" says it is okay.

[mentalbunny]

I'm not religious, I think ethics are the key point in building a civilised society and people can have their religion but I don't need it.

The thing about TV is you have to make it clear that the behaviour you see isn't acceptable, it's what happpens but that doesn't make it ok, if anything it makes it worse. We're living in really difficult times as far as bringin up kids is concerned.

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from mentalbunny on 1:29 pm on Mar. 31, 2003
I'm not religious, I think ethics are the key point in building a civilised society and people can have their religion but I don't need it.

The thing about TV is you have to make it clear that the behaviour you see isn't acceptable, it's what happpens but that doesn't make it ok, if anything it makes it worse. We're living in really difficult times as far as bringin up kids is concerned.

This will sound cold, but I am 32, I do not feel any biological clock ticking in any way whatsoever, and I'm glad I don't. For one thing it would limit my freedom to leave this country as easily--- and two---why bring a child into this world right now? In this materialistic mess---no way. Only if I was in a system that I respected a bit more. Forget "a bit" more. Tons more.

I mean no offense to people who have or are going to have children here or anywhere else. This is just how I feel about my life. Most parents---even at the worst of times, say they would never take their kids back for the world.

YMj:biggrin:

[ChiTown Lady]

I will attest to this personally, as my 10-year old fourth grade daughter came home school last week with a very patriotic pro-United States musical piece that she her band class was being taught to play. I was outraged at the way the school was slanting the views of small children in this direction, specifically when our military is dropping bombs en-mass on the civilian population of Iraq. The other thing that I found specifically upsetting about the whole thing is the fact that my daughter is attending a Catholic school, and the Pope is on record as being vehemently opposed to this debauchery the United States is perpetrating in Iraq.

Needless to say, I was forced to call the school and speak my mind regarding this issue, and told them quite specifically that my daughter will not be participating in this musical event – period.

Evidently I was not the only parent to object to this, because according to my daughter there are a few kids who are now wearing “No War” buttons on the back of their backpacks, and some even have it spelled out on their backpacks with duct tape.

As far as how my parents raised me – My parents were divorced when I was 5-years old. One of my parents was a right wing conservative and the other a left wing (limousine) liberal – which is about as annoying as a right winger because they are fake-ass liberals. I think I turned out as I did in self-defense of my parents. ;)

[YerbaMateJ]

Just think Chitownlady---in Costa Rica, you will not even have to worry about that kind of bullshit.

Won't it be great?

YMj:biggrin:

[LeonardoDaVinci]

I think with children you have to strike the right balance between guiding them in the right path as well as giving them room to develop their own ideas. However, with many parents in today's society they tend to deviate from that behaviour and either ignore their children or tend to control and monitor their every movement.

Needless to say both can be very damaging in the long term. Ignoring your kids and leaving them to be raised by MTV can only have one outcome, that is kids who are more concerned about Britney Spears' latest dress and lipstick colour than clearing 3rd world debts. Or on the other hands, emotionally fucked up ignorant kids on prozac who have been controlled by their parents since day one and who wouldn't be able to tell you which way a lift was going if they had two guesses.

(Edited by LeonardoDaVinci at 2:55 pm on April 1, 2003)

[mentalbunny]

LdaV, yes, balance is important.

CHiTownLady, thank you for making the effort against the US powers that lead children astray.

I'm not tempted to have kids, it's too much for me, but I'm only 16 so I may change my mind.