The Holocaust

[Abood]

In 1939, there were 17 million Jews in the world, and by 1945 only 11 million.

World Jewish Population (http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm)

I am by no way denying the holocaust, but I am wondering about the accuracy of those figures, since many people claim that the zionists changed the figures to get more reparations. Is it really 6 million?

[dislatino]

Did the Zionists really change figures? Is this proven?
Anyhow i'm not so sure about the quote of the source it came from, i am no expert on this but i heard it was more than 6 million. I have no source though so i can't help.

[Goatse]

I thought it was going in before 1939. :huh:

Anyway, I suppose it's possible that the figures were changed, but there's no denying it happened on a huge scale.

(I suppose the charred ashes of Jewish bodies falling over Auschwitz was just snow?)

[WUOrevolt]

The holocaust wasnt just against the Jewish population. It is estimated that 6 million plus Jews died in the holocaust.

[Janus]

I thought it was going in before 1939.
Nazi German began their anti-Jewish policies before that in the eary 1930's. They had begun establishing concentration camps in 1933.

[321zero]

"First they came for the communists..."

or, in an alternate version -

"First they came for the jews..."

[Eoin Dubh]

William Shirer's book "The Rise and fall of the Third Reich" states that the Nuremburg trial accepted the number of Jews murdered at 5,800,000.

There is great awareness of the "6 million" who were slaughtered, but too often the focus is not placed on the other victims. There was another 5 million in addition...Communists, Roma, mentally handicapped, Gays, trade unionists, Christians, Jehovahs Witnesses Etc. Etc.

Those victims should be remembered just as much as the Jewish victims.
11,000,000 human beings died in the Holocaust, 6,000,000 died in the 'Shoah'.

[вор в законе]

Rarely they mention that communists died during the Holocaust. :(

[Scars]

6 million people did not die in the holocaust. 6 million JEWS died in the holocaust, about 25 million people in total died in the holocaust, Slavs making up the largest proportion (around 15 million). I think that it's digusting that the deaths of 19 million people (this is like exterminating the whole of the Netherlands or Australia) is treated as a footnote in the history of the holocaust, or even worse, ignored completely.

A couple of posts above mentiond 11 millon- this is the correct figure for those who died in the CAMPS. This does not take into account the executions carried out by the Einstazgruppen and other mobile units who carried out murders on the base of RACE ALONE (as opposed to reprisals for partisan actions etc). The 6 million Jews, on the other hand, does include the number of Jews executed in these actions. The holocaust reaches far wider than the confines of the camps.

The thing that marks out the Jews is the fact that the Nazi's had a very specific policy of percecution directed at the Jews and the goal was to exterminate all Jews, the Slavs were not persecuted to the same extent, however there are documents (mainly by Reinhart Heinrich, Himmler's right hand man) that suggest that the Jews were the 'test run' of what was to be a far larger campaign of genocide- think a global eugenics programme. The next target was to the Czechoslovakia (which was overseen by Heinrich prior to his assassination).

[The Living Red]

Eoin Dubh, do you have a source for the persecution of Christians during the Holocaust?

[Eoin Dubh]

Originally posted by The Living [email protected] 26 2006, 09:10 AM
Eoin Dubh, do you have a source for the persecution of Christians during the Holocaust?
Pastor Niemoller springs to mind immediately, although I think he survived.
Let me google here for a sec......

"Perhaps no other group stood so firmly in their beliefs as the Jehovah Witnesses. Hitler felt very threatened by this strong group of Christians because they, from the very beginning, refused to recognize any God other than Jehovah. When asked to sign documents of loyalty to the Nazi ideology, they refused. Jehovah Witnesses were forced to wear purple armbands and thousands were imprisoned as "dangerous" traitors because they refused to take a pledge of loyalty to the Third Reich. " http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/Jehovah.htm

That concerns Jehovahs, but for other Christians... http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/main.htm
http://www.evangelist.org/archive/htm/0330jews.htm
http://www.christianparty.net/nazi.htm

I won't vouch for those links as I have just seached and posted them for you.

[WUOrevolt]

I think it was only certain demoninations of Christianity that were persecuted, since Mussolini recieved alot of support form Roman Catholics.

[Syndicalista]

I really understand why the zionists wants to point out that they had a hard time during the period of 1933-1945. But that shouldnt be taken as an excuse for what they have been doing to the palestinian people in the period of 1990-2005. Repetative helicopter attacks, Deviding the countries by a enormous wall, Terrorising palestinians living close to the boarder. Most people conciders you a nazi if you say that you hate israel, this should really change. Most people says that history should be remembered to prevent such things as the holocaust, What about the attacks on innocent palestinians and the occupations of palestinian land?

[sabotabby]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 08:43 PM
I really understand why the zionists wants to point out that they had a hard time during the period of 1933-1945. But that shouldnt be taken as an excuse for what they have been doing to the palestinian people in the period of 1990-2005. Repetative helicopter attacks, Deviding the countries by a enormous wall, Terrorising palestinians living close to the boarder. Most people conciders you a nazi if you say that you hate israel, this should really change. Most people says that history should be remembered to prevent such things as the holocaust, What about the attacks on innocent palestinians and the occupations of palestinian land?
Linking the Holocaust with Al-Nakba feeds into the agendas of both neo-Nazis and Zionists. Neo-Nazis would like everyone to believe that the Jews fabricated the Holocaust in order to create sympathy for Israel (or some similarly bizarre notion), and Zionists would like to argue that the Holocaust justifies Al-Nakba.

Neither of these things are true (and I might add that most hardened Zionists are Holocaust-deniers themselves). Both of these events were horrific, but they have no bearing on one another.

[Scars]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 08:23 PM
I think it was only certain demoninations of Christianity that were persecuted, since Mussolini recieved alot of support form Roman Catholics.
Mussolini's regime was very different to that of Hitler. Almost all percecution that went on in Italy was political (killing and imprisoning Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats and pretty much anyone else who refused to support teh Fascist Party) and there is evidence to suggest that on a personal level, Mussolini was disgusted by Hitler's treatment of the Jews and always resisted Hitler's urges to percecute the Jews in Italy (although there weren't a whole lot).

In addition it was Italy who first informed the allies of the death camps, via intentional 'leaks' within Italian communications. There is even some evidence that Mussolini was aware of this and approve of it.

Mussolini was a Fascist, Fascism being a mixture of Nationalism, Militarism, certain parts of Georges Sorel's political theroy (the myth of violence and parts of syndicalism) and a more general authoritarian stance with the 'one great leader' and hero worship there of. There are even some Futurist influences (the bulk of the Futurist party supporting the Fascists in the early days. However not ALL Futurists did, indeed many Futurists were Anarchists).

Hitler was a National Socialist, a mixture of Nationalism, Ayran racial theory, fascism, socialism, Germanic mysticism and militarism. They are similar in many regards, but different in many more.

As for questions about the percecution of Christians- who do Christians worship? Jesus. What was Jesus? A JEW! In Nazi Germany there was an amalgamated church under state control which was more or less lutheran (the predominant religion in Germany), only Jesus was not a Jew according to them. I find this very funny.

[TomRK1089]

While Lutheranism was the predominant religion in Germany, Lutherans were just as opposed to Hitler's policies as the rest of the world. I've seen a few of the old Nazi propaganda strips, and the religion featured is actually more or less a bizarre pagan religion promagulated by Hitler and the SS. It's tres creepy.

[Scars]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 01:32 AM
While Lutheranism was the predominant religion in Germany, Lutherans were just as opposed to Hitler's policies as the rest of the world. I've seen a few of the old Nazi propaganda strips, and the religion featured is actually more or less a bizarre pagan religion promagulated by Hitler and the SS. It's tres creepy.
There was a state church in Nazi germany which was how they managed to subdue the Lutherans who were, more or less, opposed to Hitler. In said church Jesus was not a Jew.

As I said, National Socialism was influenced by Germanic culture and Ayran mysticism whihc traces its origins to various occult groups in the Germanic lands. Himmler was biggest into the occult and this fklowed down into the SS.