9/11

[Fawkes]

i was wondering what you guys have to say about the 9/11 attacks on the U.S., good thing? bad thing? in between? I personally am somewhat in between leaning more towards the good things side, although i am very much against all forms of terrorism. Also, if i had to choose what buildings the planes flew into, WTC was like the Capitalist HQ.

[Eleutherios]

You really think 9/11 actually hurt capitalism? What the fuck?! The people who died were mostly civilians, working class people being robbed by corporations. And the net result of the whole thing, really, was to rally the country very strongly IN SUPPORT OF capitalism, nationalism, Christianity, and other anti-socialistic ideals. It provided the justification for the bloodshed against the Iraqi and Afghan working classes, continuing a capitalism-driven cycle of violence and chaos in the Middle East.

Violence is never justified except as an act of self-defense (including defense against illegitimate authorities). If you're going to kill anybody, kill your oppressors, not the proletarians from another country.

"Blowing up Capitalist HQ" isn't going to do anything to help communism. Notwithstanding the fact that it makes anti-capitalists look like a bunch of murderous psychopaths, you have to realize that capitalism isn't driven by a bunch of conspiring bourgeois hiding in a back room somewhere devising new ways to oppress the working class. It is a social system beyond individual control, and killing individuals will never solve the problem. You have to convince the masses that the system needs changing, and encite them to take to the streets. That's the only way to enact real change. You can't bomb them into utopia.

[Gryphon]

In other words...Revolution over Terrorism. I never liked the idea of getting the WTC towers blown to get a point across, I mean its stupid. Now some people (mostly moslems) are seeing their country being occupied by an imperialistic juggernaut bent on capturing and eliminating anyone who THEY THINK is connected. But since I'm not a believer of Islam nor a imperialist, personally I just feel it is not my battle. Let the two sides dish-it out.

[redcom]

i do believe terrorism should be stopped and i dont think bush planned any of it but i do think he ran with the ball osama gave him

[Intifada]

There will be another 9/11 if the US keeps acting the way it is at the moment.

When that time comes, I don't know if I would care to be honest.

[Fawkes]

sennomulo, the majority of the people in the WTC were rich business exec.'s from towns in CT like Greenwich. Also, i never said it was a good thing that 9/11 happened. But also, think about it this way, at the time right after 9/11, american nationalism and patriotism was strgoner than ever, so bush siezed this as an opportunity to invade Iraq, invading Iraq has turned even more people against the U.S. and has shown the U.S.'s true colors to the people not to ignorant to see them. The U.S. is creating more and more enemies by the minute, including in its own country, eventually, this will lead to the down fall of America.

[amanondeathrow]

Freedom for all...ALL

the majority of the people in the WTC were rich business exec.'s
Source?


... invading Iraq has turned even more people against the U.S. and has shown the U.S.'s true colors to the people not to ignorant to see them. The U.S. is creating more and more enemies by the minute, including in its own country, eventually, this will lead to the down fall of America.
So you are willing to sacrifice the lives of thousands of Iraqis just because it may change some people's opinion of the US? If the US collapses it would not be simply because of its actions in Iraq, but of its entire history of aggression. To say that September 11th and the resulting wars are "worth it" is simply insane.

[Fawkes]

of course if i had the choice, i would have never sent troops to Iraq, i was merely looking at a positive side this war is having, and i think its the only positive i can find.

as for a source, that was an assumption

[Mesijs]

Originally posted by Freedom for [email protected] 23 2006, 03:05 AM
i was wondering what you guys have to say about the 9/11 attacks on the U.S., good thing? bad thing? in between? I personally am somewhat in between leaning more towards the good things side, although i am very much against all forms of terrorism. Also, if i had to choose what buildings the planes flew into, WTC was like the Capitalist HQ.
Leaning towards the good thing side? Sure, when people kill thousands of people you're more leaning towards the good thing side. A very good communist you are.

Like sennumolo said very beatifully: "You can't bomb them into utopia."

[Fawkes]

You guys are right, i know 9/11 was a terrible thing, but its just that at times i feel such a hatred for the U.S. (i am american) that it numbs any sort of sympathy i have for them.

[Dreckt]

Hurting civilian people is not going to do us any good. I agree that 9/11 in some cases is overrated - people die every day in the thousands. Was 9/11 orchestrated? I don't know. Ask yourselves if it is possible.

Also, our battle is against capitalism and it's roots - not the American people. The American people don't have a "capitalist gene" in their body or something, they are people like everybody else. If not the US, then England, China, Russia.

Killing people are not going to help communism. Just like banning the opposition will only make them martyrs.

[Fawkes]

kind of like what dreckt said, i suppose when i say 9/11 was more good than bad, i mean that it was made out to be a terrible atrocity, which it was, except the U.S. does that every day. I just hate how the whole thing got blown up (no pun intended) out of proportion.

[Jimmie Higgins]

1) Were people killed in the WTC business people? No, but what does it matter? If someone blew up the G8 summit and the leaders of all the worlds ruling classes were killed, then the system would just replace thoes figureheads with the 100s of people already waiting in line to take the place of people like Bill Gates or Rupert Murdock or George Bush or Tony Blair.

The only difference is that I wouldn't shed as many tears if it were all high-level business people.

I think it's tragic that janitors and other workers and even professionsals and so on were killed because of the anger that the US government generates all over the world. Most of the people killed in 9/11 were not the policy makers and I would wager thatr most of them had no knowlege about US policies such as training people like Ossama to fight against the USSR or the Shah of Iran to control Iran or all the other covert and overt shit the US government does all over the world.

This attack was good for US imperialism because the attack disoriented the American public and gave US imperialism a much better reason to send troops all over the world than things in the 90s like "peacekeeping" had.

This attack also helped disorient and destroy the new left that had begun to emerge since the Seattle WTO protest in 99. Not that the movement didn't have its own internal problems and so on, but the attack and wave of patriotism that followed had an immediate demoralizing effect and caused many protests to be canceled out of either because radicals feared state repression following 9/11 or liberals feared seeming "not-patriotic" after the terrorist attack.