what will we do with the dirty fascist

[Metalsocialist]

i propose a good course of reeducation

umm fun for the whole company

[VonClausewitz]

If any current government tried to 're-educate' you people, you'd all cry oppression and type viciously about it. (or not, if they got their way).

Don't be hypocritical.

[ComradeTom]

Lets turn that question over, " What would I do with the commies and anarchist. " Well, none of you thret, when I am president I will not focus on those "imperialist" wars overseas, I will focus on the problem of you domestic terrorists who want to destroy Americans freedom. I will arrest the vangaurdist and send them to reeducation and labor camps in Northeren Alaska, I would send the anarchist to Syria where they will be the first layer of a offensive attack, where they will be armed with little 19th century pistols. I would crush all you revolutionaries who want to destroy our wonderful system of democracy and capitalism.

Then after you guys are gone I will invade Iran to have control of their oil reserves, also Venezuela who has great oil reserves. I will order coups in Bolivia to stabilize the situation, I will order coups in any areas of great radical revolutions. I would send troops to Colombia and Nepal to stop the terrorist from winning in those countries, and I would have unlimited free trade for all corporations and buisnesses who want to send their labor force overseas.

[Lord Testicles]

If all goes well fascist will be hung during the revolution, it costs less than bullets and you can use the rope several times :D

[Gaius]

Is it any wonder the vasy majority of ordinary people have absoultely no respect for communists and as an unfortunate side result, communism.

Really, some of the inchoherent idiots on this site really do amaze me.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 06:05 PM
Is it any wonder the vasy majority of ordinary people have absoultely no respect for communists and as an unfortunate side result, communism.

Really, some of the inchoherent idiots on this site really do amaze me.
I think most of us realise that, thats why we dont have a classless, stateless society yet

[Gaius]

If your members weren't complete idiots it would give you a chance. The general view from most ordinary working people is that communists want to burn down their churches, kill their employers and stop their luxuries. The likes of metalsocialist is not doing your movement any favours.

[Cult of Reason]

kill their employers

Not gratuitously. If necessary, then yes. If someone shoots at you, you shoot back.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 02:34 PM
If your members weren't complete idiots it would give you a chance. The general view from most ordinary working people is that communists want to burn down their churches, kill their employers and stop their luxuries. The likes of metalsocialist is not doing your movement any favours.
Hmm... interesting how one user (metalsocialist) seems to reflect on all of the members here. <_<

[rouchambeau]

Don&#39;t worry about that, man. Go organize a community garden or something.

[cyu]

I would crush all you revolutionaries who want to destroy our wonderful system of democracy and capitalism.


You don&#39;t see how democracy and capitalism contradict each other? Is the capitalist corporation democratic? If the employees vote to not pay the CEO or shareholder any money, are they allowed to do it?

How much democracy can you really have when to be a candidate, you need funding from wealthy doners to even stand a chance against all the other candidates funded by the wealthy? Obviously, you&#39;ll only get candidates that toe the capitalist line.

Not only do you have to be wealthy to buy political ad time, the programing between ads, that is, the news content of the major media is run by companies that are not democratic in structure. How willing would they be to air stories promoting democracy in the workplace? Sure, the majority of the people of these news organizations may be in favor of democracy, but the autocratic system prevents them from discussing their views, for fear of losing their jobs.

[Kia]

Lets turn that question over, " What would I do with the commies and anarchist. " Well, none of you thret, when I am president I will not focus on those "imperialist" wars overseas, I will focus on the problem of you domestic terrorists who want to destroy Americans freedom. I will arrest the vangaurdist and send them to reeducation and labor camps in Northeren Alaska, I would send the anarchist to Syria where they will be the first layer of a offensive attack, where they will be armed with little 19th century pistols. I would crush all you revolutionaries who want to destroy our wonderful system of democracy and capitalism.

Then after you guys are gone I will invade Iran to have control of their oil reserves, also Venezuela who has great oil reserves. I will order coups in Bolivia to stabilize the situation, I will order coups in any areas of great radical revolutions. I would send troops to Colombia and Nepal to stop the terrorist from winning in those countries, and I would have unlimited free trade for all corporations and buisnesses who want to send their labor force overseas.

Aww how cute. <_<

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 04:34 PM
The general view from most ordinary working people is that communists want to burn down their churches, kill their employers and stop their luxuries.
Well the first two parts are correct, the second is wrong. We will increase and spread luxuries to the working class.


Not gratuitously. If necessary, then yes. If someone shoots at you, you shoot back.

Class supression will be required. Post revolutionary situations are not the time to wait till your enemy regroups and arms to shoot, you shoot first.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 05:36 PM
Don&#39;t worry about that, man. Go organize a community garden or something.
:rolleyes: Some people never let go.

Eat shit.

[Gaius]

"Hmm... interesting how one user (metalsocialist) seems to reflect on all of the members here."

He&#39;s not on his own. If there were even a shred of common decency among most communists (There are some decent communists by the way) I&#39;d say you would be much more popular. The fact is a lot of the people who post here are still living in their 900,000 upper middle class suburban house and completely out of touch with the &#39;people&#39; themselves.

[Gaius]

In fact, I&#39;d be surprised if many of you weren&#39;t fath, white rich kids with a distorted view of reality and think they are being really &#39;rebellious&#39; by adhering completely to a movement most of them don&#39;t even understand. I&#39;m attracted to communist theory and ethics, but the people who call themselves communists are doing no-one any favours.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 11:43 AM
The fact is a lot of the people who post here are still living in their 900,000 upper middle class suburban house and completely out of touch with the &#39;people&#39; themselves.
Thats a fact is it? <_<

Id have you know that i am working class and that the house i live in isnt anywere near £900,000.

[Gaius]

The first post was meant to say that I think a lot of you have your heads in the sky. The second one I was talking about the fact most marxists are middle class.

[cyu]

I was talking about the fact most marxists are middle class.

Can you be a middle class wage slave? Is it possible to be an upper-middle class wage slave? Or is does middle class somehow free you from wage slavery? Is the distinction between middle and lower classes useful for keeping them divided and more easily exploitable?

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 07:48 PM
The first post was meant to say that I think a lot of you have your heads in the sky. The second one I was talking about the fact most marxists are middle class.
Certainly you don&#39;t live in Latin America. :lol:

and guess what? I do.

[ComradeTom]

I think its a sad reflection on the socialist ideology that everyone who supports capitalism are basically lovers of fascism. Though I think globalization and imperialism helps expand markets and modernize third world countries into the free market, all of you believe that it would be best to have socialist revolutions in these third world countries and modernize and move towards socialism. But hasn&#39;t history proved that the move towards socialism in third world or unmoderinized countries cannot be achieved due to the fact that it would slaughter millions ( Five Year Plan, Great Leap foward ). The NEP proposed by Lenin didn&#39;t help Russia&#33; It slowly rebuilt the economy of Russia but it failed to produce and productive labor force&#33;

China, Vietnam, and the third world are becoming capitalist nations and are significantly modernizing. Their expermiments with socialism have failed&#33; Now tell me a socialist revolution that has put itself on the road to a classless, communist society&#33; Russia&#39;s fall, China and Vietnam&#39;s economic reforms, Cuba&#39;s mass privatizations of various industries, and the descending into tyranny of the once democratic capitalist regimes of Venezuela have proved that socialism cannot happen. Do not tell me imperialistic forces proved that it could not work, don&#39;t tell me any of that&#33; Let us remember that France became a productive force in the new global market after the revolution despite mass peasant revolts, anti-republican uprisings in urban centers, and foreign interventions from Austria, Britain, and Spain.

Buisness should be in the hands of individuals rather than that of the state. Economies have grown strong under capitalism, but tyranny and economic problems have arised in countries of socialist revolutions.

I am also sick of the socialist arguments that nobody can never get out poverty under the capitalist system. I lived in these areas, THESE PEOPLE ARE LAZY&#33; Poverty isn&#39;t a problem of racism, due to the fact that I, as a African American, was able to rise out of poverty, go to one of the top 146 American colleges, and open my own hardware store. Alot of the kids I knew at school would skip classes, go to the local store, not study with anything, etc. etc. I think that there wasn&#39;t any real working people in the neighborhood except a few families that would take a public owned bus to various working places and would be in 2-3 jobs a day. I looked up the statistics of the highschool I went to of passing students, 76% were held back, dropped out, attended summer school, and refused to work hard.

So yes, you all are wrong.

[IHP]

I´m not a communist, so I will not attempt to engage in ¨Communism was proven to be ineffective¨arguments with you here. However, I do still see problems with a few of your points, ComradeTom.


I think its a sad reflection on the socialist ideology that everyone who supports capitalism are basically lovers of fascism

I´m not sure what you´re saying here, due, I suppose, to your sentence structure. Are you arguing that socialists believe that all capitalists are fascists? I don´t think I need to exaplain that although famous fascists like Hitler and his ilk certainly did promote private industry, you would be hard pressed to call him a capitalist. Certainly there are comparisons that can be drawn, but Nazi slogans such as ¨The common good must come before the private good¨ is only one and quick example of how this is wrong. Surely a capitalist wouldn´t agree with this. Do you understand the fascist ideology? Or are you just trying to ¨shoot from the hip¨ with seemingly random acustaions?

¨Though I think globalization and imperialism helps expand markets and modernize third world countries into the free market,

Imperialism (your words here, not mine) helps expand markets. Let´s take what you say is true, though, I´m not sure you could successfully argue that it is, and we would probably have to see whether or not this ¨modernisation¨ and ïmperialism¨ is actually beneficial for these third world countries. So you believe this is so?

I have to be off now. To be continued..

...Continued

China, Vietnam, and the third world are becoming capitalist nations and are significantly modernizing"

That depends on your definition of "modernisation", too, your definition of "significantly".

From Ken Silverstein: "Almost three times as many people, most of them in tropical countries of the Third World, die of preventable, curable diseases as die of AIDS. Malaria, tuberculosis, acute lower-respiratory infections--in 1998, these claimed 6.1 million lives. People died because the drugs to treat those illnesses are nonexistent or are no longer effective. They died because it doesn&#39;t pay to keep them alive.

"Only 1 percent of all new medicines brought to market by multinational pharmaceutical companies between 1975 and 1997 were designed specifically to treat tropical diseases plaguing the Third World. In numbers, that means thirteen out of 1,223 medications. Only four of those thirteen resulted from research by the industry that was designed specifically to combat tropical ailments. The others, according to a study by the French group Doctors Without Borders, were either updated versions of existing drugs, products of military research, or accidental discoveries made during veterinary research."

Modernising? In this quick, small example, apparently not.

Having said all of this, are you going to respond or should I stop now? I don&#39;t want to waste my time if this is all going to waste.

[bezdomni]

The middle-class argument is getting old.

Ad Hominems are all they have left.

I think death penalty is bad public policy. If a person thinks fascist things but doesn&#39;t act on them, then we can&#39;t do anything other than actively discourage it.

The most extreme I&#39;d be willing to get on the government combating fascism would be the outlawing of fascist organizations. That should certainly be done.

However, if we kill people for their ideology - how are we any better than the fascists?

Anyway, fascists would probably be scared shitless to say anything after a revolution. They&#39;d meet popular resistance.

Let the people take care of it, not the government.

I&#39;m surprised I have to say this.

[cyu]

Buisness should be in the hands of individuals rather than that of the state. Economies have grown strong under capitalism, but tyranny and economic problems have arised in countries of socialist revolutions.


Businesses should be in the hands of employees rather than that of the shareholder or state. The reason is that it would probably result in a much smaller gap between the richest people in the economy and the poorest. When the tyranny of the shareholder results in thousands of people being laid off and pushed into poverty, capitalists don&#39;t see that as a problem, they see it as normal. If employees had control over the companies, the decision to stay at or leave a company for business elsewhere would be left up to the individual, not forced upon them by the CEO.

[Ele'ill]

In (Argentina)?, many of the factories that go bankrupt or close for whatever reason are kept open by the workers, and run as a cooperative. This sort of fits in with what some of you were saying up above. It&#39;s working ok in argentina. As far as facism goes, I think they&#39;d put up a fight and lose the physical battle, however a lot of people on this forum would in fact go church to church killing pastors and priests. You know who you are. Thus, you may find yourselves losing support that would slip over to the next alternative or next in line. Which could be fascism. I wouldn&#39;t kill them unless there was open fighting and I happend to strongly agree with one side. Attrocities are attrocities. Just one murder is still a murder.

[cyu]

In (Argentina)?, many of the factories that go bankrupt or close for whatever reason are kept open by the workers, and run as a cooperative. This sort of fits in with what some of you were saying up above. It&#39;s working ok in argentina.

Yes, something I&#39;m very much in favor of. Now if only the government would recognize these occupied factories instead of trying to evict the employees in so many cases.


a lot of people on this forum would in fact go church to church killing pastors and priests. You know who you are.

Some of the discussion in the Violence topic (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=47750&hl=) really disappoints me. Personally, I&#39;m opposed to the death penalty, though using violence in self-defense is fine. I just don&#39;t want to see radical leftists stoop to the level of people like Pinochet and become worse than their enemies.

[black magick hustla]

I am pretty militant about fascism.

Frankly, I don&#39;t think I would care if a fascist would get a fair trial or not. Emotionally, I would rather want them hanged in the nearest apple trees.


However in a communist revolution, it would be the community who will decide the punishment of fascism.