Country most ready for the revolution

[which doctor]

I was curious what country or region do you think will have the first "real" revolution. I'm not talking about no bolivarian or maoist revolution either.

I was thinking of France. It has a long revolutionary history and a large group of angry youth. However, it is still probaly a few decades in the future.

[More Fire for the People]

The immense factors that go into calculating when a revolution will occur are, well immense. Using a simplified analysis, I would say that proletarian and semi-proletarian revolutions will occur in France, the Netherlands, Britian, Ireland, Nepal, India, Columbia, and Mexico. The most eminent revolutions would probably be France, Nepal, and Columbia.

[which doctor]

America was founded on principals of Liberty and the free market, I think it will be a while until we have a revolution here.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 17 2006, 06:15 PM
America was founded on principals of Liberty and the free market, I think it will be a while until we have a revolution here.
I giggled. Liberty for whom? To do what? The United States was established by bourgeois intellectuals who were quite aware that they were establishing a hegemonic bourgeois dictatorship. The liberties guranteed by the United States Constitution serve the bourgeoisie, the underlying themes of these liberties is the liberty of property owners to exploit the underclasses. American "liberty" trickles down to the proletariat and is often "won" by the proletariat by causing enough ruckus to scare the bourgeoisie into making concessions.

[loveme4whoiam]

But the point is that the people beleive that the US was set up to be a "haven of Liberty, Truth, and Apple Pie" <_<. Until people realise that their getting screwed over nothing&#39;s going to happen - people think that the people in charge of the system are wrong, not the system itself.

I think that it&#39;ll be France. I&#39;d like to say the UK but there&#39;s no evidence to support by desire.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Hopscotch Anthill+Mar 17 2006, 07:22 PM--> (Hopscotch Anthill @ Mar 17 2006, 07:22 PM)
Fist of [email protected] 17 2006, 06:15 PM
America was founded on principals of Liberty and the free market, I think it will be a while until we have a revolution here.
I giggled. Liberty for whom? To do what? The United States was established by bourgeois intellectuals who were quite aware that they were establishing a hegemonic bourgeois dictatorship. The liberties guranteed by the United States Constitution serve the bourgeoisie, the underlying themes of these liberties is the liberty of property owners to exploit the underclasses. American "liberty" trickles down to the proletariat and is often "won" by the proletariat by causing enough ruckus to scare the bourgeoisie into making concessions. [/b]
People believe that it was founded on those principals, the truth however is that the US has little liberty left at all.

[anomaly]

I&#39;d say France, and from there it should spread quickly to Britain, Ireland, and the rest of mainland Europe. The European proletariat seems much more progressive than is the proletariat of the rest of the world. Hell, in the US, some 90-95% of people still believe in god, and nationalism is at levels I&#39;d consider dangerous.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 17 2006, 09:12 PM
People believe that it was founded on those principals, the truth however is that the US has little liberty left at all.
Are we suddenly idealist? The Marxian left is fundamentally materialist. The ideas of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" are not superior to the material reality that creates them.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Dominican Republic&#33;

[Forward Union]

"The Revolution" will not happen in &#39;a&#39; country. But I postulate it will trigegr in Western/Eastern European nations.

and not for a while.

[Cult of Reason]

Well, if it is a question where the Revolution will be sparked, I think most likely France. Also, if the people I know who go to my sixth form college are respresentative, it has no chance of being sparked in the UK.

[Dimentio]

The European Union. Year 2025.

Anno technocratica

[TC]

lol at real revolution.

Any such revolution would be denounced by anarchists and left-"communists" as soon as it was successful, because political realities never match utopian fantasies and western capitalist propaganda in the media has historically done a very good job of determining the opinions of anarchists and psudo-"marxists" when it comes to revolutions and the socialist states they produce.

[Donnie]

First of all It is highly doubtful that our generation will see a social revolution or even our generation after that. Capitalism has hardly been around for very long compared to other epochs in human history.

We can see the social inequalities within our society now but these circumstance&#39;s are nothing compared to what they will be like on the eve of revolution.

What is important now is expressing our views and furthering our ideas into society.

[YSR]

lol at TragicClown.

Don&#39;t tell me what I will say. I&#39;m pretty sure that only I know that.

Do you have any evidence to back the assertion that we are somehow more easily led around by capitalists than adherents to whatever your specific dogma happens to be? Oy vey, we&#39;re supposed to be comrades here. Unprovoked ad hom attacks don&#39;t make any sense.

Anyway, on to the topic: I&#39;d like to caution comrades that Europe, which seems to be such a revolutionary place, also has a growing anti-immigrant feeling, which would be very hurtful to any revolutionary action. While France has been a happening place recently (and historically) I think we should be careful not to overstate its possibilities.

My feeling is that there will be no "first-world" revolutions for another 15-20 years. Once India/China remove the U.S. from its pedestal as the world power and conditions for workers fall further, I think we&#39;re ripe for liberation. I can&#39;t believe that a Marxist revolution would ever occur here (predominantly due to historical revisionism and fear-mongering), but I think other possibilities, particularly an anarchist-aligned uprising is very likely. In the meantime, I echo Columbia and Mexico as possiblities.

[anomaly]

when it comes to revolutions and the socialist states they produce.
Are we &#39;left communists&#39; supposed to approve of those &#39;fantastic&#39; Leninist regimes? If that is what you consider &#39;Marxist&#39;, I can only tell you that I am not a Marxist. (I know, I just totally copied Marx... :lol: )

[Yazman]

Marxism should not really be equated with Leninism, even if the Leninists do call it "Marxism-Leninism."

On another note, I think that the term "left communist" is laughable at best. There is no such thing as a right-wing communist.

[YSR]

On another note, I think that the term "left communist" is laughable at best. There is no such thing as a right-wing communist.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Opposition) appears to disagree. I dunno. I had never heard of these guys, so I just found this.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Mêh:
Originally posted by WikiPedia
Relative to the political mainstream, the Right Opposition is still very firmly on the Left.

[Global_Justice]

question..

...why is brazil not having a revolution :angry: there are millions living in shite conditions, oppressed by the state and the police brutality and they have alot of guns :o

in answer to your question i&#39;d say france aswell, and obviously venezuala and bolivia.

also, what about russia? i was reading that there is growing admiration for socialism and more and more youths are starting to look at their history as positive rather than negative.

[Lord Testicles]

I think it will probably start in or around France, people in Britain are too passive.

If a revolution will succeed it will need to start more or less simultaneously and that can only be achieved by world wide proletarian solidarity.

[Dyst]

also, what about russia? i was reading that there is growing admiration for socialism and more and more youths are starting to look at their history as positive rather than negative.

Why would they look at their history as positive? It was not.

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by Young Stupid [email protected] 19 2006, 05:47 PM

On another note, I think that the term "left communist" is laughable at best. There is no such thing as a right-wing communist.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Opposition) appears to disagree. I dunno. I had never heard of these guys, so I just found this.
i think there is such a thing. in capatalism, there are left wing people, but they are still capatalist, just left of other capatalists. so in communism, people right of other communists would be regared "right-wing". as a socialist, i may be regarded as more to the right than communists and anarchists.

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 06:37 PM


also, what about russia? i was reading that there is growing admiration for socialism and more and more youths are starting to look at their history as positive rather than negative.

Why would they look at their history as positive? It was not.
i&#39;m not saying it is, but i&#39;m just saying what i read.

[Mesijs]

In not any of the developed contries. As long as people can continue living on a level that they appreciate, as long as they can drink beer, go to the movies, do their job, listen their fancy music, play football, there will never be a revolution. The average guy on the street doesn&#39;t care a lot about politics. Only when living conditions are getting so bad or when another great war ravages, there is a chance a revolution occurs in a developed country. And the European politicians nowadays do everything to prevent both. I know that you guys think that people are exploited, but as long as people can just buy their food, buy their clothes and practice their hobbies, they won&#39;t just start a revolution. It&#39;s as easy as that. In this whole topic, I&#39;ve not seen any good argumentation whatsoever why a revolution would start anywhere...

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 04:05 PM
I&#39;ve not seen any good argumentation whatsoever why a revolution would start anywhere...
You must not be reading the news.

[Mesijs]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood+Mar 20 2006, 09:26 PM--> (Fist of Blood @ Mar 20 2006, 09:26 PM)
[email protected] 20 2006, 04:05 PM
I&#39;ve not seen any good argumentation whatsoever why a revolution would start anywhere...
You must not be reading the news. [/b]
I know that there&#39;s a lot of trouble in France, but it hasn&#39;t anything to do with communism. Of course the communist party also participates in the protests, but the biggest part of these people in France just don&#39;t like this new law. And when it would be rejected, life just goes on.

[Tekun]

As a result of popular unrest and desperation, I&#39;d say that Haiti, the Dominican Republic, and the Philippines could see a socialist revoluton in the near future

[cbm989]

Ireland?

[Hiero]

Nepal is in revolution. All but 3 parts of Nepal are in the hands of the proletariat and peasants under the leadership of the Communist Party Nepal (Maoist).

In the Philipines, in the north the Communist Party of the Philippines has a good stronghold. In the south there is a national liberation movement of the Morros. In other areas there seems to be resentment towards Arroyo.

I tend to believe that when the Nepalese and Phillipino revolutions gain success then India explode into revolution. I can see the first country to liberate themselves from neo-colonailism and begin down the socialist path will be thoose in the South East Asian area.

[redsoldier32]

thing is america might just go in and stop a revolution using propaganda and "human-rights" crap

[ZolanSegundo]

I believe that the 1st World countries will neccesarily develop into socialism as a consequence of the revolution in the 3rd world, as the living standards in the 1st world have been artificially raised by reducing the living conditions of the third world in order to keep the more educated proleteriat of the 2st world satiated.

The most likely countries will be those which combine extreme poverty with the acute awareness of the existence of a far more privileged class benefiting from their misery. Therefore, in Cuba, the combination of poverty-stricken majority with a highly visible minority living it up in Havana produced an advanced class conciousness. India is in this situation now, with the economy growing exponentially and a growing middle/upper class with a predilication to showing off their riches combined with an extremely poor majority and a distinct Maoist current in many provinces.

The revolution in the Western World will only come as a knock-on effect of the liberation of the third world. The immediate effect of not being able to rely upon the third world to slave and die for our luxuries will be a temporary reversion into the same sort of conditions that were present in the early twentieth century in Britain, with the Proletariat relapsing into the grinding poverty which was only alleviated by the shifting of this grinding poverty onto a nation in which one could repress any uprising with extreme brutality and no political consequences at home. This, combined with the raising of living standards in the Third World, will provide a sharp wake-up call to the 1st world Proletariat, resulting in an increased state of class conciousness and a revolution.

[elmo sez]

Ireland?

hmm who knows , i doubt it though , unless the economy collapses, but my guess is that ireland will just become more reactionary and turn on the imagrents, go more to the right

[bezdomni]

It&#39;s strange how anarchists tend to look towards Europe, Maoists look to Asia and Trotskyists look to Latin America..generally.

I think Latin America and Asia will have successful revolutions before Europe does. Socialism is Latin America is growing out of Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba. I agree with Hiero that India will "explode" into revolution in the not too distant future as well. There are a lot of Maoists in certain parts of India.

As far as European countries go; I think Ireland, France and Eastern Europe all have pretty revolutionary potential at the moment (depending on your analysis of the IRSA, Ireland is having a revolution at the moment).

[which doctor]

Socialism is Latin America is growing out of Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba.
I wouldn&#39;t say that socialism is growing out of Cuba, if it is it&#39;s been growing very slowly for the past 50 years. And I wouldn&#39;t call Bolivia and Venezuela socialist either. Sure somethings are nationalized and conditions are better than they used to be, but I don&#39;t think there us much potential unless the people take charge.


I agree with Hiero that India will "explode" into revolution in the not too distant future as well. There are a lot of Maoists in certain parts of India.
Do you think that this maoist revolution will be successful? Sure it may depose the current government, but only to put another one in. We saw a maoist revolution in China, now look at the country, it&#39;s more capitalist than it&#39;s ever been.

[Janus]

The Maoists are much weaker in India than they are in Nepal.

In fact I find it ironic that the Communist Party is pretty huge in India and even has power over several regions yet has denounced the Naxalites who are the only revolutionary group fighting in India right now.

[skooma]

the revolution is dead in russia, i was in moscow last month - there, its all about getting rich. the youth parade the streets (which are lined with black hummers and police/militia cars) decked out with the most blatant western fashion while speaking on their nokia mobile phones. it seems to me, that just like here, most people just aspire to be like rich america popstars etc.

theu are taking a pride in their history, that being the history before 1917, the hammer and sickles are going, replaced by their imperial eagle. BIG fuck off satutues of peter the great are being erected. the cathedral of christ the saviour, torn down by stalin who replaced it with the palace of soviets, has now been rebuilt with added gaudy gold decorations (and thats just the exterior). when i was at the hotel i turned on the tv and caught part of some sickening russian childrens program, i watched these children dressed up as cowboys linedancing. thankfully this was stopped by a break...then i saw a coke advert and turned it off.

i saw a communist party rally on manhez square, it was actaully just about 60 60 year olds wheezing into a megaphone and holding the old flags, being laughed and booed by the passing youth. they are last of a dying breed, in 20 years they&#39;ll be gone i reakon. no one takes notice of them.

the revolution is only history now, which they can make money out of to tourists. they&#39;re desperate to selling their flags, their badges and their past for money.

i don&#39;t think theres going to be a revolution in russia for sometime.

[An archist]

I think Frnace too

[Ander]

I&#39;m surprised by how many people said countries in Europe.

I&#39;ve always though Latin America was the continent just begging to explode in revolution.

[skooma]

yeah i agree, chances in europe are low compared to south america. and i don&#39;t like talking about africa.

[metalero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 11:35 AM
Why would they look at their history as positive? It was not.
1917 October Revolution not positive?

[redflag32]

Id say any revolution that comes from Britian will have to come through Ireland first.I cant see Britian coming first at all.Irelands long history with rebellion and workers unrest plus the effect of N.Irlenad will have a knock-on effect in Britian id say.No-time soon though. :(

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

Personally I&#39;d believe either Bangledash, Denmark, or India -

(I&#39;m basing this current analysis mostly off the threat of global warming) I suspect Denmark, Bangledash, and India would turn radical because in less than 50 years their major population centers would be underwater - All of Denmark and Bangledash would be underwater, and so thats a hundred million or so refugees and homeless people, and much of India&#39;s coastal cities would be tortured, and with already such miserable living conditions for the population in places like Calcutta, (Which will be submerged) - people might finally throw a fit.

Otherwise I&#39;m not really sure.

[kifl]

AFRICA

[La Comédie Noire]

I would have to say South America. They have been opressed and are being opressed by Imperialist powers constantly. I think the main thing about being a Communist is you have to be embittered and disatisfyed with life and what the people incharge give you, so we won&#39;t be seeing reveloution in 1st world countries.

I say South America and not just any specific countries because it does&#39;nt have to happen nation state by nation state, it will probably happen region by region.

[which doctor]

What do you guys think about South Korea?

[Janus]

There was a lot of action there back in 1980 with the abolishment of the Chun regime but right now their standards are going up.