"From each according to his faculties..."

[Forward Union]

"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs!" - Karl Marx,

"From each according to his faculties; to each according to his needs" - Mikhail Bakunin

Both mean pretty much exactly the same thing, but in what writing did Bakunin make that statement? I am also unable to find the context. I've searched a lot of his writings, and found nothing. Essentially, im asking who said it first.

Although Bakunin accepted Marx's class analysis and economic theories, he thought Marx was extremely arrogant, and that his methods would lead to failed communist revolutions. It seems somewhat compromising for either of them to use eachothers quote in this way. And although both held the principal based on political conclusions, im curious as to who actually has the rights to this quote.

What do you think?

[Amusing Scrotum]

I'm pretty sure Marx first used the term in The Communist Manifesto (1848), but marxists.org finds the first reference to the quote in the Critique of the Gotha Program (1875).

Bakunin died in 1876 so it's highly unlikely he made that statement after 1875 and been as I can't be arsed to check The Communist Manifesto or do any further searching on marxists.org, I think my conclusion would be that Bakunin has the "rights" to this quotation.

That being said, I wouldn't be very surprised to find out that the quote pre-dates Marx and Bakunin and was used by some of the early Socialists - perhaps some of the German Socialists as this would give a likely explanation as to why both men used it.


Originally posted by Additives Free
What do you think?

I like Bakunin's better, "faculties" sounds kinda' amusing. :D

However, both quotes would have been translated and depending on what language the quotation originated from - German if from Marx, Russian (?) from Bakunin - then I wouldn't be surprised if originally they were identical and that something was "lost" in the translation.

For instance, a typical "mistranslation" of Marx is to use the phrase "Scientific Socialism". As I understand it, the German word for Science is a lot broader in meaning than the English variant. So I suspect the correct translation would be Theoretical Socialism or something like that.

[YSR]

I might be making this up, and I probably am, but I recall hearing that this is a paraphrase from the Bible. That makes it even more powerful, actually, the presence of such a revolutionary message within the stronghold of the Church.

But I could be totally whacked-out wrong.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Armchair Socialism+Mar 8 2006, 09:27 PM--> (Armchair Socialism @ Mar 8 2006, 09:27 PM) Bakunin died in 1876 so it's highly unlikely he made that statement after 1875 and been as I can't be arsed to check The Communist Manifesto or do any further searching on marxists.org, I think my conclusion would be that Bakunin has the "rights" to this quotation.
[/b]
Well, Bakunin was born before Marx, and subsequently began writing sooner, I think.

Though a very quick look at their works it seems that Marx was a bit faster than Baukunin, in that his more famous works were published sooner. The manifesto was published in 1848 and most of Bakunins books were published in the 1860's, but some may well have been produced before 1848.

That said, bakunins last book "God and the State" was produced in 1882, some time after he died :lol: but don't worry, it dosn't enter into the equation, I've read that book a couple of times. This quotes not in there.

That's part of the problem, If I knew what work this quote featured in, I could pin it down straight away. :angry:


"Young Stupid Radical"

Posted I might be making this up, and I probably am, but I recall hearing that this is a paraphrase from the Bible. That makes it even more powerful, actually, the presence of such a revolutionary message within the stronghold of the Church.

Your not totally wrong, but I don't want this discussion to turn into "is communism based on christianity" lets just say some people believe that there are communist teachings in the bible, that may have inspired somewhat collectivist communes...

"42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and in fellowship ... 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things in common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (King James Version)"

if you do want to read more check this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism) out.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah, some people say Marx's famous line came from this passage in the Bible:

There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. (Acts 4:34)

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 9 2006, 05:20 PM
Yeah, some people say Marx's famous line came from this passage in the Bible:

There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. (Acts 4:34)
Let's not digress... the christianity references are begging for excessive/endless debate.

Was it Marx or Bakunin ? :D

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Additives Free+--> (Additives Free)That's part of the problem, If I knew what work this quote featured in, I could pin it down straight away.[/b]

Is there an equivalent of marxists.org for Bakunin and other Anarchist writers where you could search for the quote?

Alternatively, someone over at Libcom may know.


CompañeroDeLibertad
Yeah, some people say Marx's famous line came from this passage in the Bible....

That wouldn't surprise me.

After all, during his University years he did study Christianity and occasionally in some works he make reference to a Biblical character. Additionally, he had a fantastic memory, he could recite pages of Shakespeare by heart and so on.

Also, it just occurred to me that both men could of borrowed the quotation of Weitling (sp?) the nutty Christian who though he was Jesus and thought he would "lead" people to "salvation" - Communism.

He was pretty popular back then and it wouldn't surprise me if both Marx and Bakunin borrowed the phrase off him.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Armchair [email protected] 9 2006, 05:32 PM
Is there an equivalent of marxists.org for Bakunin and other Anarchist writers where you could search for the quote?

Anarchist Archives has a section on Bakunin, but it's simply not detailed enough....


Alternatively, someone over at Libcom may know.

Well, Im a member of Libcom. Though I changed my account and now only have a few posts :( ... but yea I have asked there

Libcom (http://www.libcom.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8449)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Let's not digress... the christianity references are begging for excessive/endless debate.

Was it Marx or Bakunin ?

Marx.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 9 2006, 06:34 PM

Let's not digress... the christianity references are begging for excessive/endless debate.

Was it Marx or Bakunin ?

Marx.
Which is possibly true, but can you prove it?