A few questions

[Ricardo]

I am 16 and have started learning about anarchism and communism about a month or two ago. I have really taken to both ideas but need more information. I have only read one book on anarchy, "Days of War, Nights of Love".

My father disagrees with my ideas and thinks capitalism is better. I will often debate with him and others about his but there are a few questions I need answered.

The following is a list of question I receive from people with opposing views and questions of my own.

1. A lot of people on this site advocate communism or anarchy. But aren't they much different? Don't communsits want the government to control business, jobs, etc. and don't anarchists oppose any government?

2. People will often ask me if I think it is right if someone that works hard gets as much as someone who doesn't work. I always say no, but they say with a communist government, this would happen all the time.

3. What should i say to people who say, "communism can't work because people would stop working because they know they would still get money".

4. Without the motivation of greed and money why would people work? ( I usually reply people aren't greedy by human nature, and therefore would work for survival and the betterment of human kind.

5. What would life be like under communism for the normal person?

6. What would life be like with no government at all? Would we still have people developing medicines and people building houses.

7. If there is no government, there would be no laws, therefore people would rob and kill all the time. How is that better than what we have now?

8. Does no private property means nobody can have a house for themselves?

9. I come from a working class background, and adults who have to work several hours a day at foundries and other places like get mad when i talk about communism because they say that they worked hard enough to get out of the city or the slums therefore anybody who works hard will make it in life. How should i respond?

[Winter]

Lemme try to tackle these questions for you.

1.What you're referring to is Socialism, in Communism, like Anarchism, there is no government. Anarchism and Communism are very similar, they just differ in ways to get from point A to point C.

2, 3, and 4. You gotta understand, by the time society gets to Communism, there would be a whole new mentality. Capitalism would be a legend at this point, if even that. The people would teach there children that the most important thing for an individual to do is to contribute to society. Those who don't work would be shunned by most people as a freeloader and those who work important jobs like doctors would gain notoriety.

5. Alot better than what it is now! I imagine you would go about the daily duties that you do now, without the burden of Capitalism, of course. Give to society and gain from society.

6. Just because there is no government doesn't mean people will lose the will to create new medicines and technology. Once again, they wouldn't be doing it to gain capital but for the good of mankind.

7. Just because there is no government doesn't mean there would be no laws. Communism would be a direct democracy, the truest sense of the word. The people would agree on the laws. Victimless crimes would no longer be illegal. But hard crimes such as rape and murder would be punishable severely. There would be no need for rapist or murderers in this society and the world would be better off without there counter productional behaviour.

8. You have a house, everybody needs a place to live. But I imagine a family of 6 will have a bigger house than a batchelor. A batchelor doesn't need a big house. "Each according to there needs".

9. In a Communist society they wouldn't have to work just to get by and attain common human needs such as food and shelter. In a Communist society, people would no longer be in competition with one another. In this capitalist society, we are all eachothers competition and we must do better than others. We wouldn't be working to survive but to give back to the community which has given us our basic needs.

Hope that was helpful for ya :)
~ Winter

[Revolution 9]

1. A lot of people on this site advocate communism or anarchy. But aren't they much different? Don't communsits want the government to control business, jobs, etc. and don't anarchists oppose any government?

No.

What confuses you here is the fact of the U.S.S.R, Cuba, Viet Nam, China, the DPRK, former Yugoslavia, et cetera. Many people call these nations (or former nations) "Communist." However, they weren't, they followed a socialist (or command) economic system.

In a Communist economy, the people organize themselves without being forced to by the government into collectives, communes, et cetera, while in socialism you are forced to take part in these activities. Also, under Socialism, industries, collective farms, and other forms of workplaces are often set up to make money, while under Communism they are set up to produce goods that will eventually be exchanged for the better of everyone.


2. People will often ask me if I think it is right if someone that works hard gets as much as someone who doesn't work. I always say no, but they say with a communist government, this would happen all the time.

Absolutely not.

First of all, I find it unlikely that there would be any kind of "Communist government." In Communism, the proletariat (those who do not own land/capital to make money but instead need to work for someone to make money) would set up their own "dictatorship" (not to be taken litterally) through democratic militias. This is to say, that instead of a President, Congress, et cetera, you would have a set of militias that would protect the nation, exercise law, et cetera.

Now, in a Communist society, everybody would work "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." This means, you would work as much as you are able to and receive as much as you have to receive to be well-fed, strong, and the like. So, if you don't work at all, you won't receive anything (unless you have a disability that stops you from working, in which case you'd be cared for).


3. What should i say to people who say, "communism can't work because people would stop working because they know they would still get money".

One word: Bullshit.

Okay, let me expand on that. ;)

If people stop working, well, read what I wrote to number two, they wouldn't receive what they need.

Oh, and in a Communist society, money most likely wouldn't exist. In stead of money, there could be "work-cards," meaning cards that showed that you worked that day. Thus, you would show this "work-card" to your local shopkeeper, who, in return, would give you food, clothing, and other necessary objects.


4. Without the motivation of greed and money why would people work? ( I usually reply people aren't greedy by human nature, and therefore would work for survival and the betterment of human kind.

You hit the nail on the head here.

They would work for:



The betterment of human kind (as you said).


The betterment of their commune/collective.


Praise, if you work well and hard, you will be praised. Everybody loves being praised.


For fun. In a Communist society, you wouldn't be forced to work shit jobs 14 hours a day, six days a week.





5. What would life be like under communism for the normal person?

Sex, drugs, work, food, sleep, socializing, fun. :D


6. What would life be like with no government at all? Would we still have people developing medicines and people building houses.

People would organize themselves to care for the needy, build houses, create law and order, develop medicines and science (although scientists would still do this for praise), et cetera.


7. If there is no government, there would be no laws, therefore people would rob and kill all the time. How is that better than what we have now?

Robbing and killing?

:lol:

That would rarely happen. First of all, what would be your motivation for murder? The number one motivation for murder is money, whether it be a spouse murdering their husband/wife for the insurance or someone killing the local shopkeeper. In a Communist society, money wouldn't exist.

As for robbing, what would there be to rob? Your aunt's clothes???

Anyways, I would suggest that if there are some wacos that are rapists, mass murderers, et cetera, that they be executed upon conviction by the proletarian militia.

That's just me though, others would like to see a sort of "rehab," but I don't believe that would be practical.


8. Does no private property means nobody can have a house for themselves?

I was a bit confused myself about this issue a few times before, but redstar2000 had a good idea, "housing units." Instead of houses "belonging" to anyone, someone would simply be an "occupant" of a house until they wish to move. When they move, someone else may occupy that house.


9. I come from a working class background, and adults who have to work several hours a day at foundries and other places like get mad when i talk about communism because they say that they worked hard enough to get out of the city or the slums therefore anybody who works hard will make it in life. How should i respond?

That not all people can.

For example, many people work very hard in the slums and inner cities, yet they never go anywhere. Eventually, they just try to cheat their way out (which doesn't work anyways).

For those who work "really hard" and get really rich, their children won't have to "work hard," now will they?

Take the Gates family, for example. When Bill Gates dies, will his children have to "work hard" to get any money? Hell no. They'll be as rich as hell and not have to do anything. The hardest work they've ever done is probably running around the school playground... No, wait, they probably have a private teacher. My bad. :P

EDIT: English is my second language, and sometimes what I say may sound confusing to the native of the English language. So, if you wish that I clarify something, just ask. :)

Welcome to RevLeft. :)

[Roses in the Hospital]

1. A lot of people on this site advocate communism or anarchy. But aren't they much different? Don't communsits want the government to control business, jobs, etc. and don't anarchists oppose any government?

No, primerally both communsts and anarchists advokate a stateless society in which everyone is equal in terms of wealth and opportunity. The difference is basically how they propse getting there, with communists generally being more open to a longer tranitional stage between capitalism and communism. Don't get totallitarian states like the USSR and China confused with the communism that Marx wrote about.


2. People will often ask me if I think it is right if someone that works hard gets as much as someone who doesn't work. I always say no, but they say with a communist government, this would happen all the time.


People wouldn't automatically get exactly the same amount of money/resorces etc. Goods would be distributed based on ability to need, i.e. providing people worked to fulfill the best of their abilityl they would be given the amount they need. Though a big part of communist theory is the development of the individual to the best of their potential, hence Marx's comment that a man could be a fisherman in the morning, and a shepard in the afternoon. (or however it goes.)



3. What should i say to people who say, "communism can't work because people would stop working because they know they would still get money".


People would work in a communist society because they were doing work they enjoyed/wanted to do and were contributing to society, rather than under capitalism where we work doing whatever we can to avoid starving. What's really the best motivation do you think?



4. Without the motivation of greed and money why would people work? ( I usually reply people aren't greedy by human nature, and therefore would work for survival and the betterment of human kind.


See above.



5. What would life be like under communism for the normal person?

It would be grand! :D


6. What would life be like with no government at all? Would we still have people developing medicines and people building houses.

Of course, simply because the community needs those kind of things to survive.


7. If there is no government, there would be no laws, therefore people would rob and kill all the time. How is that better than what we have now?

If the law stops people commiting crimes then why are prisons full? For the most part because of socio-economic factors such as poverty. In communism there wouldn't be such factors, therefore, crime would be significantly reduced. Of course, there will always be exceptions, and all but the most hardcore anarchists would admit
that some form of law would be neccessary, the difference being that it would be a fair law of the community, rather than a law defending a ruling elite.


8. Does no private property means nobody can have a house for themselves?

Well nobody would 'own' a house in the traditional sense, it would be the communal property of the community. But, providing it they were using the house to the best of its potential then, to all intents and purposes it would be 'there' house.


9. I come from a working class background, and adults who have to work several hours a day at foundries and other places like get mad when i talk about communism because they say that they worked hard enough to get out of the city or the slums therefore anybody who works hard will make it in life. How should i respond?

Bring up the millions of people who work hard but aren't 'upwardly mobile.'

[Ricardo]

Thanks for the help guys, now i'll have something smart to say when this comes up

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 06:38 PM






I have only read one book on anarchy, "Days of War, Nights of Love".

Tip: Dont read lifestylist crap from organizations like crimethinc. If you agree with anarchism, then read class struggle anarchist literature such as Kropotkin, Bakunin, Bookchin. Organizations like NEFAC (northe easter federation of anarchist communists), Solidarity Federation (UK), Anarchist Federation (UK), and other platformist organizations, are what you really what to look into.



1. A lot of people on this site advocate communism or anarchy. But aren't they much different? Don't communsits want the government to control business, jobs, etc. and don't anarchists oppose any government?

Communism is a stateless, classeless society. There is no "government" in the sense we know it today. Decisions would be made through direct democracy. Anarchism is against the state, but anarchists are also communists. Anarchists want communism, they feel that when revolution comes we should immediately abolish the state because its opressive in nature. Marxists feel we should use the state to help abolish whats left of the bourgeoisie and it's society, until communism can be reached. However platformist anarchists usually adhere to aspects of Marx, including his theory of historical materialism and his analysis of class society. Council communists, autonomist marxists, libertarian marxists, etc, are all very closely related to anarchists. Members of each of these groups read anarchist writers, while anarchists read Marxist writers under those idealogies.


2. People will often ask me if I think it is right if someone that works hard gets as much as someone who doesn't work. I always say no, but they say with a communist government, this would happen all the time.

Remember, most people DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT :lol: Most people think Russia and China were communist, this is not true. They were state capitalist.

I suggest not wasteing your time argueing with people who dont want to learn about what communism really is, focus on those who want to know.


3. What should i say to people who say, "communism can't work because people would stop working because they know they would still get money".

These people dont know what communism is. There is no money in communism. I suggest giving them introductory phamplets on anarchism/marxism depending on which you choose to follow.


4. Without the motivation of greed and money why would people work? ( I usually reply people aren't greedy by human nature, and therefore would work for survival and the betterment of human kind.

Communism works on mutual aid. You do your part in the necessary production for the community and you benefit from everyone else doing the same. There is no such thing as human nature, for those that scoff at you tell them to hand you some scientific proof.


5. What would life be like under communism for the normal person?

Probably a 4 hour workday 4 days a week. Then the rest of your day you can take part in the production of "luxuries", if its necessary. If production is not advanced enough for certain luxuries, such as big screen tv's for example, a person who wants one would put in volunteer hours to help make that tv. After they have worked a relative number of hours to how long it takes to make a tv, they recieve one. For the most part, production is advanced enough where this wouldnt be necessary.


6. What would life be like with no government at all? Would we still have people developing medicines and people building houses.

Of course. Everyone who has the ability to work, they have a job available. Production of basic necessities is need based. If there is a housing shortage, people would then spend their 4 hours each day working on housing until the need is met. Developing medicines would always be a need, so those interested in medicines could work doing that.


7. If there is no government, there would be no laws, therefore people would rob and kill all the time. How is that better than what we have now?

There would be laws, except they are all under community control. If the community doesnt like a law, they can vote to remove, or if they want one they can vote for it, etc. The main difference would be that there is no police force. Police are necessary when certain people have wealth in a society and need protection from those who dont. Since everyone would have their needs met, there would be no robberry in communism. There would still be murder but it would certainly be reduced from the ammount under capitalism. These people would be dealt with according to their crime under a community trial.


8. Does no private property means nobody can have a house for themselves?

Of course not. Remember, need based! Personal possesions are not affected under private property. No private property means people cannot own the means of production, this would create oppression. People would not be allowed to own land other than whats distiributed to them because this again creates oppression.


get mad when i talk about communism because they say that they worked hard enough to get out of the city or the slums therefore anybody who works hard will make it in life. How should i respond?

THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE STILL POOR PEOPLE! Thats how you should respond. Capitalism does not follow "if your work hard you get wealth". If it did just about 98% of the population would be wealthy. Read up on the marxist concept of wage slavery.

[Storming Heaven]

I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can...


1. A lot of people on this site advocate communism or anarchy. But aren't they much different? Don't communsits want the government to control business, jobs, etc. and don't anarchists oppose any government?


The definition of a communist society is often described as one 'without classes or a state'. So the most basic goal of Communists and Anarchists is the same. What we differ over is how to achieve that goal.

The government control of 'business, jobs etc.' that Marxists advocate varies between different schools of thought. At one end of the spectrum, Stalinists would have this controlled by a totalitarian, one-party State with a police force and standing army, etc. At the other, Left Communists advocate a radically democratic 'state', without a oppressive institutions such as a standing army etc. What Left Communists advocate is so similar to anarchism, they are regarded in by some as actually being anarchists.


2. People will often ask me if I think it is right if someone that works hard gets as much as someone who doesn't work. I always say no, but they say with a communist government, this would happen all the time.

3. What should i say to people who say, "communism can't work because people would stop working because they know they would still get money".

Really? In all likelihood I don't think that they would. In the Communist Manifesto Marx mentions that the establishment of Socialism would involve 'the equal obligation of all to work'. Anyone who takes from, but does not contribute to society is an exploiter and a parasite, just as capitalists are. A Socialist societywould not tolerate such people, although just what it would do with them is uncertian and open to debate. I think that the best solution would be to acknowledge their right to live but not exploit by allowing them the resources necessary to live by themselves outside of society.


4. Without the motivation of greed and money why would people work? ( I usually reply people aren't greedy by human nature, and therefore would work for survival and the betterment of human kind.


People would work to survive, and to further their lot (which, at a biological level is simply enhanced survival). The twist is, that in modern society no person survives alone - it is the result of communal effort. I think that a farmer would be quite happy to provide food for his neighbour if he realised that he was dependent on his neighbour for the machinery that he used to harvest his crop!

I think that the really interesting thing is, that in it's division of labour and concentration of the proleteriat into large workforces, capitalism provides precisely the conditions for the realisation of this fact, that would bring acout it's downfall!


5. What would life be like under communism for the normal person?


Who knows? I think that we can say that they would be much freer, participating intimately in the decisions, such as those in the workplace, that most affected their daily lives; and that they wouldn't be tied down to working for any particular 'slaveholder' simply to subsist, but beyond this who can predict the actions and opinions of free people?


6. What would life be like with no government at all? Would we still have people developing medicines and people building houses.

7. If there is no government, there would be no laws, therefore people would rob and kill all the time. How is that better than what we have now?

Without coercion, people would still build houses, develop medicines etc, because people need these things!. People would not rob or kill because they would have no reason to do so. Anarchists usually trace the cause of crime to property and to structures of power. Why would someone go to the trouble of stealing bread from his neighbour when he could simply walk a few metres further and pick one up from the shop, free of charge? Why would one person murder another if they gained no power of good from the act?


8. Does no private property means nobody can have a house for themselves?

Certianly not! Note that there is a difference between possession, whereby someone may possess the necessaries for a dignified, human life; and property, where members are forced to corner peices of the community and with which to hold others at ransom.


9. I come from a working class background, and adults who have to work several hours a day at foundries and other places like get mad when i talk about communism because they say that they worked hard enough to get out of the city or the slums therefore anybody who works hard will make it in life. How should i respond?

If that is the case, then why are there people, even in the United States and other Western nations, who have two or three jobs and still are living below the poverty line? These people are not rare exceptions to some general rule: a full 12% of Americans live in destitution. Save the Children operates programmes in Kentacky!

Furthermore, I would question just how hard is 'hard enough'. Note that it is not workers who are in control of this, nor any 'elected' official. Note also that a capitalist economy requires increasing profits if it is not to be in serious danger of collapse. As profits can only be made by someone performing work, this means that workers must continually work harder for the same (or less) pay!