Marquis De Sade

[adenoid hynkel]

Any opinions about Marquis De Sade?

[Scars]

The only reason that he is remembered is because of his niche value and because of the word 'sadism'. From a philosophical point of view he was not at all special, nor is he a particularly good writer (yes, I have read what he wrote. 120 Days of Sodom was not good, nor particularly shocking- just very, very tedious and poorly written). His plays are better.

From an historic point of view, he should have been executed as nobility. Sadly he escaped through clerical error.

[Monty Cantsin]

I’ve read a bit of his stuff, it’s basically the golden rule of do unto others as you’d have them do unto you taken to the extreme end of hedonism. I have to admit that his writing isn’t that good but I’d agree with Beauvoir’s general thesis that Sade’s philosophy showed signs of a equality of the sexes.

[adenoid hynkel]

I have not read ""the 120 days of sodom''. I have read the ''Philosophy in the Bedroom" and the small story "Dialogue Between a Priest and a Dying Man". It has been a long time ago since I read these books, but I can say that back then I admired his decent atheism and a big part of his criticism on morality. Offcourse I was also annoyed by the fact that he justified rape and murder.

[adenoid hynkel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 04:02 AM
The only reason that he is remembered is because of his niche value and because of the word 'sadism'. From a philosophical point of view he was not at all special, nor is he a particularly good writer (yes, I have read what he wrote. 120 Days of Sodom was not good, nor particularly shocking- just very, very tedious and poorly written). His plays are better.

From an historic point of view, he should have been executed as nobility. Sadly he escaped through clerical error.
What is ''niche value''

[tambourine_man]

he was a man far ahead of his time.
his philosophy knew no limits on man's personal freedoms and held in contempt any notion of an "absolute morality" - which is why he was such a staunch atheist. in fact, considering his disdain for any sort of moral constraint, and his consequently guiltless indulgence in the most carnal, primitive desires, you might be able to call him a nihilst. and you might be right. but then so would apollinare when he called de sade "the freest spirit who has ever existed."
a brilliant man, and not half as bad a writer as some of you make him out to be.

[Scars]

Originally posted by adenoid hynkel+Mar 5 2006, 01:12 PM--> (adenoid hynkel @ Mar 5 2006, 01:12 PM)
[email protected] 5 2006, 04:02 AM
The only reason that he is remembered is because of his niche value and because of the word 'sadism'. From a philosophical point of view he was not at all special, nor is he a particularly good writer (yes, I have read what he wrote. 120 Days of Sodom was not good, nor particularly shocking- just very, very tedious and poorly written). His plays are better.

From an historic point of view, he should have been executed as nobility. Sadly he escaped through clerical error.
What is ''niche value'' [/b]
He is a controversial figure, not suprisingly, and thanks to his association with the sadist 'movement' many pople are still interested in him because they share his fetishes (violence and the like) or because they are interested or curious about who this guy is and what he really said.

This is his niche value. When I say niche value I mean that he draw a level of interest, both casual and serious, that far out-strips his value or importance. The Marquis De Sade is most important for forming the basis of a word, everything he said has been said by others, generally in a far more articulate way. In addition he is a poor writer and his fiction is generally not that great if you are not into what he was in to. I am not disgusted by his writings, I just do not want to waste my time reading countless descriptions of rape and torture. I have better things to do.

[encephalon]

de sade should have died the same way the peasant girls he enslaved and abused died, eating their own shit on a silver platter while someone sodomizes every orifice in their bodies.. and then when there aren't any orifices left, someone makes more.

Seriously, how the fuck can any of you admire this man? The fact that he was an atheist does not at all make up for the atrocities he committed.

[Monty Cantsin]

I haven’t read any of his latter works and that where his supposed to get dirty but weren’t his real crime much less to those imagine? I.e. he thought up a lot of weird and cruel stuff but never actually did any of it.

[Scars]

Originally posted by Monty [email protected] 6 2006, 10:09 AM
I haven’t read any of his latter works and that where his supposed to get dirty but weren’t his real crime much less to those imagine? I.e. he thought up a lot of weird and cruel stuff but never actually did any of it.
No as far as is known he never commited any acts as extreme as the ones in his books, but he did commit many sexually based crimes, for instance sexually abusing his servants. He also poisoned a number of prostitutes with Spanish Fly which he thought was an aphrodesiac.

This said I would say that he most likely did rape atleast one person, probably more, but got away with it. Servant and Prostitutes (his most likely victims) did not have a whole lot of rights.

[Voulacce]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/classics/marquis/

[Atlas Swallowed]

He is a perfect example of the excess of the wealthy. In the extreme of course. I wish I could ressurect him and give him a taste of the suffering he dished out to others.

How many Nazis were atheists without moral constraints or serial killers? Nice pick of somebody to admire :blink:

[tambourine_man]

(encephalon)

Seriously, how the fuck can any of you admire this man?

(atlas swallowed)

How many Nazis were atheists without moral constraints or serial killers? Nice pick of somebody to admire


i assume that you are both addressing me, since i am the only one who has said anything in favor of de sade.
my admiration for the man is explained quite simply, as before:
de sade recognized that the sole purpose of living is the pursuit of unlimited pleasure (i hope that you all do agree) - pleasure which, eventually, therefore, cannot be attained should any morality or social convention be even vaguely considered. of course, that implies a reckless individualism that is simply not compatible with the material reality of bourgeois society (not to mention the semi-feudal society that was just beginning to give way in france). hence, his "atroicious perversion" and "cruelty."

does this mean that i envision communist society as one in which rape and murder are happily accepted as effective measures to satisfy personal desires? no. i expect that in a communist society free of constraints and implications, necessarily advanced to the point where material relations no longer hinder individual liberty, there will be much simpler methods, impossible under capitalism, of satisfying the so-called "base" desires of sexual and physical violence (for example, the complete indulgence of the creative urges).

de sade is a representation of the human potential for complete liberation and independence; it is no wonder that the surrealists, certainly no fascist/nazi bunch, exalted him. let's not embrace any form of puritanism, now.