Living oustide of capitalism

[Ricardo]

In a little over a year i will probably be starting college, but after college i don't know what i am going to do. I am against capatilism, and there is no way I am going to work for a corporation.

I was wondering what i could do to support myself. I am almost positive I am going to college and even though I don't care about getting a degree to "get ahead in life" i want to have the experience.

So if anybody could help me by telling me what jobs there are for people not working for huge corporations and other businesses like that, it would be a big help.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

There are lots of jobs like that; you could look for a job in a small cornershop or something, or in a second-hand shop. It depends where you live, but there is always work "outside of capitalism". Just keep looking ;)

[Commie Rat]

black jobs. ie- day labor ect ect cash in hand, alot of businesses will be open to this as this aviod paperwork and tax (mainly small busineses though)

[loveme4whoiam]

What about the tax system? Over here in the UK the Taxmen (bastards) gives you a ring when you haven't done taxable work for a certain period of time, to make sure that you aren't being a naughty person and doing exactly what we are discussing. Still, I'm sure there's ways round that.

[Organic Revolution]

is there any infoshops or co-ops were you live? or are you talking about living completly off the grid?

[bezdomni]

Teach or be a mathematician/chemist/physicist/biologist/biochemical engineer...et cetera.

There are tons of "professional" jobs that don't require working for a corporation.

[Livetrueordie]

I don't care about getting a degree to "get ahead in life" i want to have the experience. Why? Sacrifice an education because of the capitalists.? If you have the ability and oppurtunity you should achieve as much as possible, instead of throwing it to someone with no conciousness of the world. Make lots of money and give it all away. Never allow your life to be a struggle.

[violencia.Proletariat]

I am against capatilism

So are we, but we want to make revolution not live in a dream world where living outside of capitalism is appealing and realistic.


and there is no way I am going to work for a corporation.

Why? As long as you arent a boss, WHATS WRONG WITH BEING A PROLETARIAN? Mind you wage slavery is not pleasant, its better than living in a forest. :lol: Theres a posibility of changing things.


I was wondering what i could do to support myself.

Get a job. :)


So if anybody could help me by telling me what jobs there are for people not working for huge corporations and other businesses like that

Again most people dont "work for a corporation" in the sense I think your getting at, suit and tie and in a cubicle. Walmart is a corporation, but are the workers who unload and reload the trucks corporate scum? No they are proletarians.

[emp]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 04:26 AM
Teach or be a mathematician/chemist/physicist/biologist/biochemical engineer...et cetera.

There are tons of "professional" jobs that don't require working for a corporation.
Sounds like you either have no experience with this or you have been (or know someone) who's been very very lucky. Universities are corporations.

I have experience with U of Minnesota, West Virginia U and Fairmont State College. All three basically suck real bad. At FSC they trick old professors into signing retirement papers so that they can dump their high salaries. At WVU they will gladly give out BS/MS degrees in fields that future job prospects are extremely bleak. They will mislead concerning this. They will backstab. They will expect you to lick their shoes, etc. They will do whatever they have to to make themselves look good above anything else. And they expect you to grovel for them. You are not a fellow human on equal terms. At UM, the same. Almost all the professors treat the students like absolute shit. Work you ass off for years and without a second thought will happily kick you to the curb. Lots of politics. Lots of money changing hands. The professors at the top, the ones with the most power, are the biggest dicks. Whether it's engineering or history, it's the same old crap.

Perhaps things were different in the past.

[Jaden]

If you get a job you're not necessarily being a capitalist. Capitalism wants to gain, gain, gain, but if you're a more generous handler with your money then you won't be just another cappie. For instance, get a job somewhere, set aside enough to pay rent/bills and groceries then give your extra cash to the charities. If people travel through looking for a place to stay, let them stay with you (granted, there's always the chance they're axe-wielding murderers) or help them get a motel. I have a friend who's granpa inherited lots of money but he never gives it away and actually stores it away somewhere so the government won't tax him for it. Now that's a capitalist - but this is all in my eyes. I always found that communism is communal, socialism as well, we're not working just for individual comfort but for the benefit of society on the whole - classless, of course. If a comrade looks to me for help then if I am capable to help I will. If this isn't the case, let me know.

Technically, you're a capitalist if you're paying your bills, for your internet, for your food, etc. because you're feeding money into the hands of other people who will either use it to better their business or keep it in their pockets never to let it go until they die.

Besides, if you join a workforce you can possibly find other comrades or help to bring potential comrades to the cause and that takes us one step closer to the revolution.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 07:46 PM
In a little over a year i will probably be starting college, but after college i don't know what i am going to do. I am against capatilism, and there is no way I am going to work for a corporation.

I was wondering what i could do to support myself. I am almost positive I am going to college and even though I don't care about getting a degree to "get ahead in life" i want to have the experience.

So if anybody could help me by telling me what jobs there are for people not working for huge corporations and other businesses like that, it would be a big help.
Living "off the grid" or in a commune or whatnot does nothing against capitalism or corporations. If you think that these things are bad, why duck the fight? Organize students while you are at University. Get a degree and try and get the best paying job you can (sort of owning a factory or being military brass or a capitalist politician or something) and then join the union and organize with he rank and file.

Living in a mud hut is just avoiding capitalism. Joining a union and organizing with your coworkers gives you the ability to help shut capitalism down.

[Black Dagger]

Explore the city for squatting options, try asking crusty anarcho-punks or if your college has some kind of student welfare dept. ask there (if the reps. are activists, otherwise they'll just look at you blankly). To help with your food costs, get a job at a place that produces food daily and take home the stuff that would get thrown out at the end of the day, and explore the area around where you live for dumpster spots, try supermarkets, bakerys and so forth first. If you're not dumpstering your fruit and vege you should buy it from a fruit and vege market, it's usually much cheaper.

Oh and try and find someone to share with you, the more the better, it'll help split costs.

[bezdomni]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 07:45 PM
Sounds like you either have no experience with this or you have been (or know someone) who's been very very lucky. Universities are corporations.

I have experience with U of Minnesota, West Virginia U and Fairmont State College. All three basically suck real bad. At FSC they trick old professors into signing retirement papers so that they can dump their high salaries. At WVU they will gladly give out BS/MS degrees in fields that future job prospects are extremely bleak. They will mislead concerning this. They will backstab. They will expect you to lick their shoes, etc. They will do whatever they have to to make themselves look good above anything else. And they expect you to grovel for them. You are not a fellow human on equal terms. At UM, the same. Almost all the professors treat the students like absolute shit. Work you ass off for years and without a second thought will happily kick you to the curb. Lots of politics. Lots of money changing hands. The professors at the top, the ones with the most power, are the biggest dicks. Whether it's engineering or history, it's the same old crap.

Perhaps things were different in the past.
Of course, working under capitalism isn't perfect - but you aren't working for a corporation that does nothing (hopefully).

Enron for example, what did they produce? I honestly have no fucking clue, the same can be said for a ton of corporations. Most people who work there have a bachelor's in accounting or finance and work for the same corporation for their entire life contributing ultimately nothing to humanity. All they do is allow for their bosses to expropriate wealth from the working class.

If you have a college education, teaching (any school, not just uni) is probably much better than working an Office Space job.

I have little doubt that the job has big downsides, but you are at least producing something.

Being a scientist probably has the same problems as being a professor.

That said, I am not a professor and you're right - I don't have experience with it. Are you saying that you would rather work in a cubicle and do bullshit inventory forms all day (or whatever they do)?

If you are a proletariat, you will be subservient to somebody.

[Ol' Dirty]

Be a teacher, an artist, a publisher, a civil service worker, etc., or something that the state or some big corporation doesn't profit from. Do something that helps people in need, like kids, the poor, thed hungry, or even a mixture of the three! Maybe some sort of scientific field?

[apathy maybe]

Oh NO! Ve wants to be a *gasp* lifesylist! That's all right, just don't forget the struggle. Black Dagger (again, I think he must have foresight or something) is right. There are many ways living that support the capitalist economy as little as possible. (And S3rna, Commie Rat & Organic Revolution all are right as well.)

Squat, dumpster (getting good food that is getting thrown out, do a search in DIY), even steal (from the big mega corps, watch out, don't get caught) (though stealing isn't really living outside the system).

And to you Marxists who say get a job, ve doesn't want to! OK? just because you think that work is the only salvation, some people don't like it. Ve can get a job, but if ve contributes little back to the system (by renting or whatever), ve can take a job with fewer hours. And in that free time ve can run around and organise strikes at different workplaces. Ve can demonstrate. Ve might even write something better then Marx.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 28 2006, 08:20 PM
Ve might even write something better then Marx.
*Gasp* How dare you say such a thing! Marx is god. Ve must worship Marx!

[1984]

I'l graduate on electric engineering in about two years from now, and I've asked myself if that fact, for itself, would make me "working for the enemy". The answer is NO - sure, I don't want to become a freakin' Dilbert working in a cubicle... even if the odds for it are high... it's just depressing. Not that the people who do this kind of job are guilty anyhow - after all, they must sell their work to survive.

Most people at college don&#39;t give a damn about it, the education they are blessed with, and graduate aiming for an executive job so they can "be on top". Damn neo-yuppies&#33; It makes me wonder why these people didn&#39;t choose economy or publicity at first... <_<

What should I do? To make my knowlegde useful, my best bet is to try a job in a research lab or college. Perhaps I&#39;ll get a degree on physics later... :lol:

The most important thing for us is to spread the revolutionary message, regardless what your job is.

[Communism]

There is no point beating yourself up and not getting a job in a capitalist society purely because you disagree with capitalism. The fact is you will either have to live with a very poor condition of poverty or conform and abide by the capitalist rules. However you can still support communism even if you live in a capitalist society, if you were some radical left wing political leader then obviously this would be different and seen as hipocritical but for every day people such as you and me we need money(jobs) to survive in this capitalist society, as does everybody else.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Become a freelance writer/journalist or something.

[An archist]

Squat a place and set up a co-operative bar.

EDIT: Of course this is all speaking in the theory that you would like to live outside of capitalism, wich off course you wouldn&#39;t dream of ;)

[Yazman]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 29, 2006 11:11 am
Oh NO&#33; Ve wants to be a *gasp* lifesylist&#33; That&#39;s all right, just don&#39;t forget the struggle. Black Dagger (again, I think he must have foresight or something) is right. There are many ways living that support the capitalist economy as little as possible. (And S3rna, Commie Rat & Organic Revolution all are right as well.)

Squat, dumpster (getting good food that is getting thrown out, do a search in DIY), even steal (from the big mega corps, watch out, don&#39;t get caught) (though stealing isn&#39;t really living outside the system).

And to you Marxists who say get a job, ve doesn&#39;t want to&#33; OK? just because you think that work is the only salvation, some people don&#39;t like it. Ve can get a job, but if ve contributes little back to the system (by renting or whatever), ve can take a job with fewer hours. And in that free time ve can run around and organise strikes at different workplaces. Ve can demonstrate. Ve might even write something better then Marx.
ok, what you said is all good advice but..

WHAT THE FUCK? Ve? what the hell is ve?

[Dimentio]

I do not think we should condemn lifestylism too much. It is theoretically possible to create capitalism-free zones within capitalism. In fact, one of NET&#39;s plans is to actually do that. The plan is to start self-sustaining units, which produce their own food and electricity, and utilise these resources to provide people with free food and electricity, and then to subjugate more resource sources, until a network which could achieve real self-sustainability could form.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2006 06:31 am
Become a freelance writer/journalist or something.
it works for me...so why don&#39;t you try it?

and if you are not interesting in in journalist, how about being an independent artist, a part time worker or anything else. :)

[Dimentio]

Or why not assemble a group of people and build an independent community with sustainable energy?

[Gunman]

Originally posted by Yazman+December 18, 2006 05:53 pm--> (Yazman @ December 18, 2006 05:53 pm)
apathy [email protected] 29, 2006 11:11 am
Oh NO&#33; Ve wants to be a *gasp* lifesylist&#33; That&#39;s all right, just don&#39;t forget the struggle. Black Dagger (again, I think he must have foresight or something) is right. There are many ways living that support the capitalist economy as little as possible. (And S3rna, Commie Rat & Organic Revolution all are right as well.)

Squat, dumpster (getting good food that is getting thrown out, do a search in DIY), even steal (from the big mega corps, watch out, don&#39;t get caught) (though stealing isn&#39;t really living outside the system).

And to you Marxists who say get a job, ve doesn&#39;t want to&#33; OK? just because you think that work is the only salvation, some people don&#39;t like it. Ve can get a job, but if ve contributes little back to the system (by renting or whatever), ve can take a job with fewer hours. And in that free time ve can run around and organise strikes at different workplaces. Ve can demonstrate. Ve might even write something better then Marx.
ok, what you said is all good advice but..

WHAT THE FUCK? Ve? what the hell is ve? [/b]
Exchange "V" for "W" and then everything will make sense.

[RedSabine]

you&#39;re not a communist if you work outside of capitalism. As we all know (or should know) a communist is a class consciece member of the proletariat. So, go get a job.

[Yazman]

Originally posted by Gunman+December 20, 2006 09:06 am--> (Gunman @ December 20, 2006 09:06 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2006 05:53 pm

apathy [email protected] 29, 2006 11:11 am
Oh NO&#33; Ve wants to be a *gasp* lifesylist&#33; That&#39;s all right, just don&#39;t forget the struggle. Black Dagger (again, I think he must have foresight or something) is right. There are many ways living that support the capitalist economy as little as possible. (And S3rna, Commie Rat & Organic Revolution all are right as well.)

Squat, dumpster (getting good food that is getting thrown out, do a search in DIY), even steal (from the big mega corps, watch out, don&#39;t get caught) (though stealing isn&#39;t really living outside the system).

And to you Marxists who say get a job, ve doesn&#39;t want to&#33; OK? just because you think that work is the only salvation, some people don&#39;t like it. Ve can get a job, but if ve contributes little back to the system (by renting or whatever), ve can take a job with fewer hours. And in that free time ve can run around and organise strikes at different workplaces. Ve can demonstrate. Ve might even write something better then Marx.
ok, what you said is all good advice but..

WHAT THE FUCK? Ve? what the hell is ve?
Exchange "V" for "W" and then everything will make sense. [/b]
Exchanging "v" for "w?" I STILL don&#39;t understand WTF "ve" is because if you exchange the "v" for "w", it still makes very little sense in some of the contexts Apathy Maybe used, unless the topic creator is a hive mind of sentient beings.

Look, these make little sense with the letter exchange you proposed:

"Oh NO&#33; we wants to be a *gasp* lifesylist&#33;"

"And to you Marxists who say get a job, we doesn&#39;t want to&#33;"

"We can get a job, but if we contributes little back to the system (by renting or whatever), we can take a job with fewer hours."

"And in that free time we can run around and organise strikes at different workplaces. We can demonstrate. We might even write something better then Marx. "

Sounds like stuff the borg collective would say.

I still don&#39;t get what "ve" is.

[Leo]

WHAT THE FUCK? Ve? what the hell is ve?

"Ve" means "and" in Turkish. I don&#39;t think it has the slightest relevance to what the person who used it meant, nor do I think anyone cares about it as I know I don&#39;t but I thought this will be a good introduction for my post, for some reason.

Anyway, here&#39;s the truth: you can&#39;t work outside capitalism, therefore you can&#39;t live outside capitalism and ultimately you can&#39;t actually live because the capitalist system alienates everything in your life, including your very self. You will always hate school, you will always hate your job, you will always hate the work you have to do in order to live, yet not necessarily so much. If you don&#39;t think about it, but you just perceive what you don&#39;t actually live, than you will initially submit yourself, make peace with alienation, hate it less. When you actually think about this alienation, you will hate your job much more, but you will be able to consciously fight to destroy this system. Under capitalism, the more you work, the less we live; another excellent reason to destroy the capitalist system.

[Purple]

Well, I am going to university(if my application gets accepted) to take B. of Arts in "Peace & Conflict Studies" at University of Toronto. If I wont get in there then off to sociology. Political analyst, journalism, societal critic, sociologist, all of which is ideal jobs for a true leftist. A "communist missionary", y&#39; know.

For now, you are stuck within the capitalist system no matter what you do, but that does not mean that you must conform to it.

[fashbash]

I&#39;m studying to be a nurse. That&#39;s a real job, for real men, not some bloody &#39;ology&#39; ;) only jokin. But seriously, nursing is a good job for a communist, especially working for the wonderful, wonderful NHS. About the only aspect of the British government of which I am proud.

[Purple]

Nursing sounds like a really good job. A friend of mine said that "you&#39;ll certainly feel productive". In Canada it has the highest absent rate of all occupations. Every day 8% of all nurses are absent. Work related stress is crazy high for nurses.

[which doctor]

I once heard that out of all professions, smoking is most popular amongst nurses, probably due to all the stress they encounter in a hospital environment.

[StartToday]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2006 08:05 pm
I do not think we should condemn lifestylism too much. It is theoretically possible to create capitalism-free zones within capitalism. In fact, one of NET&#39;s plans is to actually do that. The plan is to start self-sustaining units, which produce their own food and electricity, and utilise these resources to provide people with free food and electricity, and then to subjugate more resource sources, until a network which could achieve real self-sustainability could form.
What is NET??