Rolling Stone on Scientology

[redstar2000]

Inside Scientology: Unlocking the complex code of America's most mysterious religion (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/9363363/inside_scientology)


Originally posted by Janet Reitman
In his 1983 autobiography, Over My Shoulder: Reflections on a Science Fiction Era, the sci-fi writer Lloyd Eshbach describes meeting Hubbard in the late 1940s. "I'd like to start a religion," Eshbach recalls Hubbard saying. "That's where the money is."

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[violencia.Proletariat]

Me and some friends are always joking about this religion. We are actually going to visit their church in the city soon :lol: Supposedly they keep these manila folders with the secret of the universe on some cruiseship they have, so we plan on sinking it :lol:

[RedStarOverChina]

Originally posted by Rolling Stone
Indeed, Scientology holds that the entire field of neurological and mental-health research -- from Freud to the study of brain chemistry -- is pseudoscience.
RS2K: if memory does not fail me, you also believe that Freudian psychiatry is a "fraud".

Why, may I ask?

[STI]

I'm a psych major, so, since RS is AWOL ATM (alphabet soup!) I think I'm fit to field that question.

Here's the thing with Freud's theories: they all sound somewhat plausible, but when it comes time to empirically verify them against what is observably happening, they fall apart.

Take, for example, his notion of repression. According to Freud, traumatic experiences are often repressed (forced by our conscious mind into our unconscious mind) in order to protect ourselces from suffering as a result of that experience indefinately.

Sounds ok... but consider how this actually plays out when you decide to find a way to test it. Take childhood sexual abuse, for example. All too often, people have vivid, horrifying memories of those experiences, and they never get rid of them. Those traumatic experiences were not repressed.

How did Freud explain this? Well, it's simple, really. Instead of just admitting that repression isn't universally true (if at all... calling into question his entire idea of an unconscious mind which is ever-active and which fundamentally impacts the way we think and act), Freud produced his crown-jewel. Guess what he said. Take a guess.

He said they made it up. Sigmund Freud said that these people were never abused as children, their minds simply made up the memories as a way of dealing with their unconscious sexual desires for their parents. He actually said that. Can you fucking believe horseshit like that? I sure can't.

So, then, to call Freud a "Fraud" is only useful inasmuch as it's a fun word-play. But I don't care whether or not he was a fraud. Even if his work was authentic, and I have no reason to think otherwise, it is bullshit.

It's unscientific, and I wish his work would stop being presented as psychology. It isn't. Psychology is scientific to its core.

And Fuck Freud. He gets credit out the ass for being the first psychologist. I've heard it enough times. But it's bullshit. James, Maslow, Piaget, these are the ones who got the motherfucking ball rolling, not some cocaine-prescribing shithead.

[ComradeOm]

I've read a bit on this great scam before but this was an excellent article. Very interesting.

Scientology can be useful in criticising established religions. After all, are intergalactic aliens really any more bizarre than carpenters rising from the dead?

[loveme4whoiam]

Myself and a friend once got "Personality Analyses" from these guys, damn that was a funny day. We had to get permission letters from our parents (which were obvious forgeries) because we were under-18. Oh, I'm actually laughing now at the memory of the utter shite they came up with.

In my town centre they have a huge yellow Scientology tent up about once every six months or so, the next time I hear of one I think a road-trip is called for by our UK members :D


Scientology can be useful in criticising established religions. After all, are intergalactic aliens really any more bizarre than carpenters rising from the dead?
Indeed, cracking example, and one that's hard to argue against. Defenders of religion say "but it's not a real religion", you say "Really? Are you sure about that?" :lol:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

In my town centre they have a huge yellow Scientology tent up about once every six months or so, the next time I hear of one I think a road-trip is called for by our UK members

They're set up in Times Square in New York City every single day. They have tables set up with signs that say "Free Stress Test".

[loveme4whoiam]

Originally posted by CompañeroDeLibertad
They're set up in Times Square in New York City every single day. They have tables set up with signs that say "Free Stress Test".
Really? Wow :wacko: Hasn't the "official" Church tried to shut them down? Or did they just open up another tent across the square from them trying to get people to give the Church of Christianity all their money rather than the Church of Scientology? What is the Church stance to these fraudsters? I mean, they are pinching potential marks from themselves, after all.

[red team]

Originally posted by RedStarOverChina+Mar 4 2006, 06:04 PM--> (RedStarOverChina @ Mar 4 2006, 06:04 PM)
Rolling Stone
Indeed, Scientology holds that the entire field of neurological and mental-health research -- from Freud to the study of brain chemistry -- is pseudoscience.
RS2K: if memory does not fail me, you also believe that Freudian psychiatry is a "fraud".

Why, may I ask? [/b]
Probably because a large part of Freudian psychiatry simply wamed over pornography. This isn't surprising considering the society in which Freud was brought up in. It was Freud who originally came up with the theory of Penis Envy.

Of course, I think there are women who do have a serious case of penis envy when they buy strap-on dildos for themselves. :lol:

[STI]

Of course, I think there are women who do have a serious case of penis envy when they buy strap-on dildos for themselves. laugh.gif

You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

[RedStarOverChina]

Originally posted by red [email protected] 5 2006, 10:06 PM
Probably because a large part of Freudian psychiatry simply wamed over pornography. This isn't surprising considering the society in which Freud was brought up in. It was Freud who originally came up with the theory of Penis Envy.

Of course, I think there are women who do have a serious case of penis envy when they buy strap-on dildos for themselves. :lol:
I do think that Freud was right in the sense that much of what we do is motivated by sexual desire. That's ccentral to his theory, isn't it? Should that be scraped just because he was wrong on particular issues?

Anyways did a research on "Penis Envy". Didn't know this before it's completely wacko. :blink:

Soon after the libidinal shift to the penis, the child develops her first sexual impulses towards her mother.
The girl realises that she is physically not equipped to have a sexual relationship with her mother, as she has a clitoris and vagina, rather than a penis.
She desires a penis, and the power that it represents. This is described as penis envy. She sees the solution as obtaining her father’s penis.
The girl blames her mother for her castration, assisting a shift in the focus of her sexual impulses from her mother to her father.
She develops a sexual desire for her father.
Sexual desire for her father leads to the desire to replace, and eliminate her mother.
The girl identifies with her mother so that she might learn to mimic her, and thus replace her.
The child anticipates that both aforementioned desires will incur punishment (by the principle of lex talionis)
The girl employs the defence mechanism of displacement to shift the object of her sexual desires from her father to men in general.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by RedStarOverChina
RS2K: if memory does not fail me, you also believe that Freudian psychiatry is a "fraud".

Why, may I ask?

Lack of evidence!

The first critique of Freudianism that I ever read (in 1969) was this one...

Kinder, Kuche, Kirche as Scientific Law: Psychology Constructs the Female (http://home.att.net/~celesten/KINDE_KIRCHE_KUCHE.html) by Naomi Weisstein (1968).

I thought at the time and still think it was one of the most brilliant papers to emerge from the "New Left" (she was in SDS).

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[STI]

I do think that Freud was right in the sense that much of what we do is motivated by sexual desire.

Not quite. People are way more complicated than a simple interaction of sexual desire & aggression.


She desires a penis, and the power that it represents. This is described as penis envy. She sees the solution as obtaining her father’s penis.

This is just crap. A developing child has way too much going on to be worried about that kind of idiocy.

[Abakua]

http://today.reuters.com/news/

Seems he can poke fun at everyone else and had no bones about perpetuating racial stereotypes with "Chef" but when the scientologists are in the firing line suddenly it's religious intolerence. Barmy!

I wonder if he was leaned on by Tom Cruise?

[RedAnarchist]

What an hypocrite :lol:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

"intolerance" my arse. I distinctly remember the flashing text saying "this is what scientologists actually believe"

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by BBC
Co-creator Stone said Hayes would be released from his contract and had the best wishes of the South Park team.

Stone said: "In 10 years and over 150 episodes of South Park, Isaac never had a problem with the show making fun of Christians, Muslim, Mormons or Jews.

"He got a sudden case of religious sensitivity when it was his religion featured on the show."
:lol:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

This is more comedic than anything on that cartoon could ever be.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by BBC
South Park 'battling' Scientology

South Park's creators have renewed their "battle" with Scientology, after a US TV channel dropped a show which mocked its church and actor Tom Cruise.

"So, Scientology, you may have won THIS battle, but the million-year war for earth has just begun!" Trey Parker and Matt Stone told trade paper Variety.

Comedy Central said the schedule change enabled it to screen two extra episodes featuring Isaac Hayes, who played Chef.

Hayes left South Park this week after objecting to it sending up religion.

Parker and Stone added in their statement to Variety: "Temporarily anozinizing our episode will NOT stop us from keeping Thetans forever trapped in your pitiful man-bodies."

"Curses and drat! You have obstructed us for now, but your feeble bid to save humanity will fail! Hail Xenu!!!"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/entertainment/4819826.stm

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[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 12:12 PM
"intolerance" my arse. I distinctly remember the flashing text saying "this is what scientologists actually believe"
http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/02/great-s...ogy-secret.html (http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/02/great-scientology-secret.html)

There's the clip of the big Scientology secret for anybody interested. Hilarious! :lol:

[Oh-Dae-Su]

:lol: NO FUCKING WAY!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Planet Xenon? hahahahahahah lmao, thats halarious. Omg! is that really what scientologist believe? please tell me thats bull!! :lol: :lol:

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

Scientology is one religion that simply deserves to be made fun of. Not that the other ones don't, of course. But Scientology is "special."

The guy who founded it is a mediocre science-FICTION writer, who lied about the vast majority of his military record.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

im just asking if that really is what scientologists believe, that we are the souls of alien beings? hahahhahaha :lol: if that is the case, then yes you are right, hahaha, ohh man it deserves to be made fun off badly!! hahahaha

[anomaly]

The guy who founded it is a mediocre science-FICTION writer, who lied about the vast majority of his military record.
His name is L. Ron Hubbard. So the story goes, as far as I know it, Hubbard bet a colleague that he could get rich by creating a religion. That's just what he did and, well...it worked. Somehow.

EDIT: Here's the actual quote: "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion ... If you want to get rich, you start a religion.'"--L. Ron Hubbard

[bcbm]

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/scientology/

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion.../l-ron-hubbard/ (http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/cult/l-ron-hubbard/)

You can't make this shit up.

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 22 2006, 04:20 AM
im just asking if that really is what scientologists believe, that we are the souls of alien beings? hahahhahaha :lol: if that is the case, then yes you are right, hahaha, ohh man it deserves to be made fun off badly!! hahahaha
No, we are not the alien beings. They say we are humans but all our problems are caused by the alien souls called thetans which infect our bodies. But yeah, that clip is a pretty accurate depiction of one story in their wacky mythology. Except they don't say the aliens were dropped into the volcanoes. They were actually stacked around the volcanos and then blown up with thousands of hydrogen bombs.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

ahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahha ^^ hydrogen bombs!! WTF!! ahahaha :lol:

thanks man, for that moment.

anyway, check this pic out from rotten.com
http://poetry.rotten.com/mother-of-god/

she aint no virgin after all lmao :lol:

[Oh-Dae-Su]

OMG!! HAHAHAHA TOO FUNNY!! :lol: :lol:

http://poetry.rotten.com/jesus-with-boy/

no way!! ahahaha

[Abakua]

People find Scientology ridiculous and it is but all other religions are founded on equally ridiculous "fictions".

Are aliens and Xenu's much more absurd than the all powerful "gods" of coventional religions?

Six-armed blue skinned Vishnu's, Superheroic Jesus, Prophets etc.. etc.. It's allfictional.

[RebelOutcast]

Yeah, I've heard the story about making a religion to get rich as religions are tax exempt.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Abakua your right, all religions are just as ridiculous, its just that this is one is of course, more science fiction type, so it's even funnier.

[Eleutherios]

Yep, it's all the fun of Star Trek except you actually believe you're part of the story, and instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars on Trekkie conventions you spend it on crappy science fiction stories you can easily find on the Internet for free.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

plus, c'mon Tom Cruise is a scientologist, that makes it even more believable! C'MON GUYS! :rolleyes: :lol:

[Abakua]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4836286.stm :lol:

[redstar2000]

Ok, so the other night I'm taking out the trash...which involves walking past several other apartments and often overhearing the dummyvision programs that some of my neighbors like to watch.

And I hear this snatch of commentary...

I applied to join Scientology but they turned me down...said I was too creepy. :lol:

I laughed so damn hard I nearly dropped the trash bags.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[Oh-Dae-Su]

hahaha ^^, where was this dude? so you overheard it from somebodies TV right? or from one of your neighbors? HAHA :lol:

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

If anyone wants to watch the episode, you can see it here

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SSj9gc36Bw8&search=scientology

[Communism]

Yesterday I read an artical on scientology in a newspaper and what worries me is its rate of growth and its facist, racist and homophobic views. I was also shocked to see on the scientology website that there is a "church of scientology" where I live(birmingham). It basically says that humans are "thetans" and have the abilities to control things with their minds and not feel pain etc.
It also goes on to say that it's aims are to acheive world peace and "a world without insanity" and adopts policies such as nobody can speak out against the church, masturbation and homosexuality is not allowed, neither is sleeping with somebody of a different race or using something such as an asprin. All of these are derived from the story that 75 billion or million years ago some warlord put people on earth and blew them up etc. It is utterly ridiculous.
What worries me is that this religion is becoming more worldwide and if becoming financially very powerful as it has members such as John Travolta and Tom Cruise paying thousands of dollars to its church not to mention very wealthy businessmen.
This religion needs to be stopped, it lies to it's oppressed members promising them eternal hapiness and never to feel pain. It uses bullying tactics to make them express very deep thoughts and then destroys them as a person,
It claims to have very left wing views such as world peace and equality yet it is a facist, racist and homophobic regime.
Please put your thoughts on scientology below and what can be done to put a stop to this oppressive "religion"

[Redmau5]

This religion needs to be stopped

All religion needs to be stopped.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 08:41 AM
It also goes on to say that it's aims are to acheive world peace
All religions claim things like that...of course, "peace", for them, means something like "getting rid of all the infidels so that nobody even dares to question The Nonsense".

[Ultra-Violence]

Something i found out a little while ago was that the founder of scientology was arrested for trying to cojnure up a whore. no joke :( really sad

[bezdomni]

But it's scientology. It has science right in the name!

How is it not scientific? ^^

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Ultra-[email protected] 15 2006, 02:43 PM
Something i found out a little while ago was that the founder of scientology was arrested for trying to conjure up a whore. no joke :( really sad
Most likely the WHORE OF BABYLON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_babylon). :lol:

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[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Cult News from Rick Ross
Has Tom Cruise damaged Scientology?

Scientology is ranked lower than Islam as one of the most, unpopular religions in America. Even Islam, despite Muslim terrorists and radicals making headlines, is seen better.

Specifically, Americans are twice as likely to view Islam favorably than Scientology.

The poll conducted by CBS News was actually focused on measuring the perception of Islam amongst Americans and not Scientology, but other religions were named and came up and also were measured in poll results.

Only 19% of had a favorable view of Islam, compared to 30% in 2002.

But only 8% of the American public view Scientology favvorably according to the CBS poll, which is less than one in ten.

Other faiths ranked are also follows; 58% had a favorable impression of Protestantism, 48% of Catholicism, 47% of the Jewish religion, 31% of Christian fundamentalist religions and 20% of the Mormon religion.

http://www.cultnews.com/index.php/2006/04/...ed-scientology/ (http://www.cultnews.com/index.php/2006/04/15/has-tom-cruise-damaged-scientology/)

Note the relatively low numbers for even the most "popular" superstitions. :D

This site looks like it might be worth looking over...

http://www.cultnews.com/

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[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Cult News from Rick Ross
Scientology is ranked lower than Islam as one of the most, unpopular religions in America.

"Scientologyophobia"....? :lol:

Damn, we need to resist this unbearable prejudice! :lol:

[Jadan ja]

But it's scientology. It has science right in the name!

How is it not scientific? ^^

I think that there is "scient-" in their name, because they worship science fiction, not because they are related in any way to science.

(I don't really know, I am just guessing.)

[Jadan ja]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 03:57 AM
Ok, so the other night I'm taking out the trash...which involves walking past several other apartments and often overhearing the dummyvision programs that some of my neighbors like to watch.

And I hear this snatch of commentary...

I applied to join Scientology but they turned me down...said I was too creepy. :lol:

I laughed so damn hard I nearly dropped the trash bags.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif
I cannot stop laughing. :lol: Are you sure you heard that?



I found that scientology uses cross (like Chiristianity), so if someone knows why do they use it, please inform me.

[bezdomni]

Originally posted by Jadan [email protected] 16 2006, 04:03 PM


I think that there is "scient-" in their name, because they worship science fiction, not because they are related in any way to science.

(I don't really know, I am just guessing.)
I was being sarcastic. ;)

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Jadan ja
Are you sure you heard that?

Someone pmed me and told me that what I heard was probably a snatch of Comedy Central...since I don't have a dummyvision set, I'm not familiar with the programs.

But it was a damn funny line. :lol:

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[Axel1917]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Apr 17 2006, 01:36 AM--> (redstar2000 @ Apr 17 2006, 01:36 AM)

[/b]

Jadan ja
Are you sure you heard that?


Someone pmed me and told me that what I heard was probably a snatch of Comedy Central...since I don't have a dummyvision set, I'm not familiar with the programs.

Interesting. I guess I am not the only one that finds TV's pretty much overrated and useless.

These scientologists are laughable. It just shows up what kind of absurdities can be used to make up religions in general. :lol: :lol:

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by St. Petersburg Times
Scientology nearly ready to unveil Super Power

In the works for decades, the closely guarded spiritual training program will be revealed in Clearwater.

CLEARWATER - Matt Feshbach believes he has super powers. He senses danger faster than most people. He appreciates beauty more deeply than he used to. He says he outperforms his peers in the money management industry.

He heightened his powers of perception in 1995 when he went to Los Angeles and became the first and so far only "public" Scientologist to take a highly classified Scientology program called Super Power.

Where in L.A. did he do this?

"Just in Los Angeles," is all Feshbach will say. Super Power is that secret.

Under wraps for decades, Super Power now is being prepped for its eventual rollout in Scientology's massive building in downtown Clearwater. That will be the only place worldwide where the program, much anticipated by Scientologists, will be offered.

A key aim of Super Power is to enhance one's perceptions - and not just the five senses we all know - hearing, sight, touch, taste and smell.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/06/Tampabay...early_re.shtml/ (http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/06/Tampabay/Scientology_nearly_re.shtml/)

Drawback: your bullshit detector is permanently disabled. :o

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[Cult of Reason]

Reading through the link at the beginning of this topic I have come to the conclusion that Scientology must be one of the first, if not the first, organised religion to be targetted and destroyed. It is much wore than any other I can think of.

[Red Axis]

It was just made up by some dingbat to make money. Oh Lord, we commies SHOULD defineately be against that.

[Cult of Reason]

Worse than that is how they treat members, especially those trying to leave etc.. Absolutely despicable.

First against the wall when the revolution comes, anyone? Or would that still be the Sirius Cybernatics Corporation?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 08:31 PM
Reading through the link at the beginning of this topic I have come to the conclusion that Scientology must be one of the first, if not the first, organised religion to be targetted and destroyed. It is much wore than any other I can think of.
This suggestion is not without merit. It would be an "easy target" and even today, most Americans (religious or not) think (correctly) that it's a wacko scam.

And it would get people used to the idea that superstition is in for a "rough time" in post-capitalist society. :D

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[RevMARKSman]

Oh boy...that's just mental. I can't believe thousands of people have fallen for this crap. First against the wall, definitely.

[Red Axis]

What about the Republican Party? Wouldn't they be a better candidate?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 7 2006, 12:22 PM
What about the Republican Party? Wouldn't they be a better candidate?
Yeah, put them next to the Democrats.

[red team]

By joining Scientology you too can be a comic book super hero and obtain super powers. :lol:

Super Powers With Scientology (http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/06/Northpinellas/Scientology_nearly_re.shtml)

[LSD]

Ah, the old "get super powers" game. Cults have been peddling this one forever, Scientology's just put a newfangled "Sci-Fi" spin on it.

I must say, though, my absolute favorite "crazy religious story" involes the Scientologist who claims to have travelled through time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural_abilities_in_Scientology_doctrine#Tim e_travel) thanks to his Scientological "skills". :lol:

[Dark Exodus]

Has anyone seen the south park episode about it? Usually they add rediculous plot elements like aliens or conspiracies to make things more interesting, on scientology they didn't have to do a thing.