Originally posted by
[email protected] 11 2006, 10:42 PM
Dammit Alan, you beat me to it. I was going to say mostly the same things.
lol ^_^;;
But it's become apparent that regardless of accomplishments or opinions, anyone "foolish/stupid" enough to be religious is a drooling idiot by the standards of the vast majority of this board. Not that that continues to bother me anymore. :P There aren't any names that I haven't been called yet, so meh...
Theres nout wrong with a religion so long as it doesnt worship a god because they believe he/she/it smites anyone who DOESNT worship him, and so long as it doesnt try to impose its standards on others.
As for worshipping out of fear, thats pretty much the same as people bowing down to Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Bush.
the fact that he told millions of africans aids was caused by condoms
He probably believed that, in which case, telling them so, at least in his eyes, was humanitarian.
and abortion
Im kinda iffy about abortion myself.
I guess it all comes down to whether or not the baby is aware of itself and capable of emotion/sensation by the time of the abortion. But we just cant know whether or not a faetus thats only a couple of cells IS aware.
Which the two of you are, by the way.
Heh thanks :DDD
¬_¬
Ok, seriusly now. Spineless? lmao id like to see YOU openly participate in planning a revolt against a fascist government, knowing it could get you killed. Liberal? Ill take that as a compliment, thanks, if theres ONE thing thats worth dying for, its liberty. Class-traitor? I HOPE I dont know what you mean by that...
Clerical fascism your "thing" is it?
No, and if it was, would I really be on this forum? 0.o
I think your getting John Paul (the last Pope, died last year) mixed up with Benedict (the current Pope).
As a Catholic, Im kinda unorthodox, in that I dont believe the Pope has any real authority, and have little respect for people who do, particularly since the "crowning" (for want of a better word) of Benedict. I DO, however, have great respect for John Paul as a person, both for his work as a Pope, and for his willingness to defy the Soviet enforcement of atheism in Poland (enforced atheism is one of the aspects of the Communist Manifest I disagree with, and I believe it has little relevance to communism, but that it was something ELSE Karl Marx believed in, that he wrote about in the Manifesto).
This of course, being the same Pope that refused to support even Liberation Theology.
The Liberation Theology being... the forced annexation of countries into the Soviet Union?
Imperialism isnt a communist concept, Armchair, only a Communist one.
keep women enslaved
You people talk about capitalist anti-left lies, and yet you believe Soviet anti-religion lies? lmao
Firstly, he was the head of the Roman Catholic Church
He was NOT the head of the Roman Catholic Church, however, when it was a fundamentalist institution (
an oppressive and quasi-totalitarian organization, guilty of numerous atrocities and exploitations), he was the head of a LIBERALISED Roman Catholic Church. In fact, much of that liberalisation happened during his time as Pope.
and opposed progressive medical research.
You mean... experiments on unwilling and helpless lab rats (both literal and metaforical)? Is there any real question why that is?
If Julius Steicher can be executed for promoting anti-semitism, Karol Wojtyła can be executed for promotng sexism and homophobia.
Im skeptical about whether even THAT is right. Free speech is a fundamental tenet of democracy (anthough granted, democracy is something the Soviet Union -despite the best efforts of people like Alexander Dubcek, Mikheil Gorbachev, and quite possibly Vladimir Lenin - never had).
You mean like steal their money in the name of "Christ" and then use it to build his palaces and monastaries?
John Paul never built a single palace in his lifetime, and would probably never have dreamed of doing so either. As for monastaries, they are used to shelter the homeless, etc, just as much as they are for worship. And he never "stole" anything - anything he took would have been given freely.
When one knows that one's acts are partly to blame for an epidemic and does not stop, one is either a crminal monster or insane.
Which one do you suppose he was?
Neither - as I said, he BELIEVED condoms were at least partly to blame for the epidemic.
Except, you know, for women, gays, and non-Christians.
I guess we don't "count".
Women - name ONE sexist policy.
Gays - so he was a little homophobic. So were the majority of people of his era.
Non-Christians - John Paul, unlike Benedict, was NOT a fundamentalist.
Second, I cannot believe how many here actually support the corrupt Marxism of the USSR over at least the philanthropy of a pope, that not only reformed the Roman Catholic Church and made it open to other religions, but also brought down this wretched late Stalinistic Marxism.
I'll choose John Paul II over Stalin, Krushchev, Breznhev, or any of those other fat-ass bastards any day.
Seconded, assuming that list wouldnt have eventually reached Gorbachev, who was the first Soviet head of state to actually see the light, and had it not been for his awful economic policies, could have potentially lead the USSR into a golden age (a true one, not the sort Stalin would have claimed to have created).
The consensus amongst historians seems to be that 20 million people died under Stalin, the majority of which were Ukrainian peasants and they died of starvation.
So the fact that he just sat back and let them die one of the most painful deaths possible for a Human being, rather than doing his absolute all to get food to them, exonerates him does it?
As for his "successors killing many more", well again, that is wrong.Have you ever heard of Alexander Dubcek, and his groups attempted liberal socialist reforms? You wanna know how Kruschev supressed THAT movement, rather than through diplomacy and ideology? TANKS.
The ratio between highest and lowest wages in "Soviet Russia" was around 1:4. Not that much when one considers it.
Considering that Soviet Russia was supposedly communist, that ratio SHOULD have been 1:1. So, yes, it IS quite a lot...
If you're going to seriously wave off 20 million deaths so easily, I suggest you go and talk to the doctor at your local psych ward.
Same
I wouldn't be surprised if he lived in the former Tsar's palaces in between signing death lists.
Probably
"The Jewish administrative division [Birobidzhan] was founded with the help of Komzet in 1928 as the Jewish National District. It was the result of Stalin's nationality policy, by which each of the national groups that formed the Soviet Union would receive a territory in which to pursue cultural autonomy in a socialist framework." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast
Yeah, anti-semites always give Jewish people their own states.
Well, obviously, something made him change his mind, because after Hitler invaded Poland, he prevented the media from leaking any news about the concentration camps, and in 1948, he started his own purge.
Its like saying the President of Iran is worst than Hitler, because he says that the state of Israel should be wiped out of the face of the earth.
Yeh, the Iranian guy SAYS it, Hitler would have actively gone about trying to DO it. Which is worse, people?
they would have certainly hanged him!
And rightfully so!
Im not sure Id even say that about Stalin, one of histories greatest evils.
Capital punishment is NEVER justified.
I know, it's funny that so-called communists make common cause with organizations tied to the CIA
EVEN the CIA (which, as I think Ive said at other points in this debate, is one of the most evil organisations currently in existence) is capable of having friends who have friends who have friends who have friends who have friends who believe in SOME sort of ligitimate cause.
...along with several other trillion people.
There ARENT several trillion people on the planet Earth...
Around 6 billion at last count ¬_¬
So the Catholic Missionaries in Africa telling people not to wear condoms aren't "imposing their feelings"???
Did they hold guns to the Africans heads, search their houses, and confiscate any condoms they found? NOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Oh, didn't you know? Russia didn't have any real criminals. In fact, every single person ever put in prison in the USSR was completely innocent…
Probably not many less innocent inmates than guilty ones. That goes for most fascist (yes, you heard me, FASCIST, Stalins "interpretation of communism" was AT LEAST bordering on fascism) countries.