The Possibility of Communism

[Winter]

I understand how Socialism can work and I would like to believe that one day society can become Communistic, but it just seems so utopian. Maybe it's because I'm so hardwired into this capitalist country ( america ) and I just can't concieve it.

It seems you would still need money, law, and *personal* private property.

The idea of someone who doesn't work yet gets goods for free doesn't make sense to me. The *needs* should be provided free, but not recreational goods. The more education and labor a job requires, the more money one should make. Unlike capitalism, there wouldn't be such a large economic gap between the people. That is what makes social classes. There would only be one class, the Working class. This class includes everyone from factory workers to surgeons.

I understand the point of view how capitalism causes many crimes, but with Communism, there still would be crimes. Sure, you can get rid of crimes of greed, but what about crimes of passions? If I walked into my bedroom and saw some dude banging my wife ( lol, Job ), I'm gonna want to kill him, and so would many other people as well. I think we would still need a criminal justice system. Not like the capitalist system, but one of reabilitation.

Private property is so inbedded in society I don't see how society would be able to function without it. I'm talking about PERSONAL private property, the means of production would be owned by the state, and the state would be ran by the people. It would be the truest sense of the word "democracy".

I'm still fairly new to the subject and I'm seeking some understanding and comments. I don't mean to be insulting anybodies ideaologies, I would just like to be informed.

Input, anybody?
~ Winter

[MysticArcher]

Private property is so inbedded in society I don't see how society would be able to function without it. I'm talking about PERSONAL private property, the means of production would be owned by the state, and the state would be ran by the people.

Personal property, like say your toothbrush, would still exist, mostly because the sort of items that are persoanl property are the kinds that would be plentiful enough that there'd be no reason for other people to want them. Why come in and take your toothbrush, when I can go get my own?



I understand the point of view how capitalism causes many crimes, but with Communism, there still would be crimes. Sure, you can get rid of crimes of greed, but what about crimes of passions?

The best piece I've read on this is RedStar2000's Crime and Punishment in communist society (http://www.redstar2000papers.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1083339099&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

basically the mechanisms for dealing with crimes like that is large juries (hundred or more, like in Greek times) with the defendant and prosecution representing themselves (or family/friends to represent murder victims). Punishment for serious crimes (murder, rape, etc) would likely be execution

What we must avoid is a class of parasitic lawyers who do nothing but argue cases, since we've seen where that leads - a huge mess instead of justice and a drain on societies resources


The idea of someone who doesn't work yet gets goods for free doesn't make sense to me.

Social factors are going to have a lot to do with this - most people just wouldn't associate with someone who is capable of work but doesn't (remember you can have whatever job you want/have the skills for, so lack of opportunity isn't an excuse).

Also while there wouldn't be monetary gain, some jobs would have a sort of prestige, a doctor who saved someone's life is going to be more welcome even it's just the sort of unconcious things like people being friendlier. Collectives as well would enjoy prestige for good work, "There's the workers collective that print's the Daily Marx, they do good work."

So it's both positive and negative social pressures working. Plus doing nothing is down right boring

What you should recognize is that money serves as a buffer to disguise how reliant workers are on each other. Without money people are going recognize the contributions others make more.

[anomaly]

To begin, communism is only idealistic (or utopian) if you have an idealistic view of history. If you have a materialist view of history, communism is the logical next step in the history of the progression of socioeconomic systems.

Next, we won't need money, we will have law, and we will have personal property.

Let us examine why capitalist distribution appears to be so 'unfair', and obviously unequal. It is obvious that the problem lies not in who owns the means of consumption, but who owns the means of production. The bourgeoisie own the latter, therefore they will own the greatest percentage of the former. From this, we can see that if working men hold the means of production in common, then the means of consumption too can be held in common, allowing us to follow the simple slogan: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Once such a slogan is in place, what need is there then for any type of currency?

I don't know where you got this idea that communist society will not have law, but it certainly will. But, rather than the state determining what justice is, the people will. And it need not be a system of rehabilitation. If someone is found guilty of murder or rape, I expect they will be promptly shot in the head. Other offenses, whatever they may be, can be dealt with by the people, or maybe randomly selected juries, by whatever methods the people of that particular commune choose.

Private property will not be owned by the state. The state will be abolished. In communist society, private property (capital) will be held in common by the people.

Little things like toothbrushes, shoes, clothes etc., will still be owned by whomever owns them. I suppose it is debateable what constitutes personal property and what does not, but I think for most things it is rather clear.

[Winter]

Thanx for the feedback guys, I'm learning something new with every message I write :)
~ Winter