Police

[Zero]

Now, when I think about it, Police is the wrong term. Police are here to protect governmental property. I think of it more as a 'peace keeping' force of some sort.

Anyway, within social interaction there will always be those who you like, and those who you disslike. Now, I know that obviously within the transition to Communism through the path of Socialism we will be able to filter down crime levels by mass education, eliminating the concept of profit, and rehabilitating already 'hardened' criminals to give them a second chance in society; but how can we combat the general hates we have as human beings without a general group of those who can respond to social problems?

EDIT: Now, remember I'm not talking about crimes in the general sense. I'm talking about the social feuds people will have. For example, a love triangle with a murder. Even in the most utopian society jealosy will exist for feelings. ;)

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

True, but it cannot be justified for someone not involved to judge upon them. As human beings, we all have our responsibilities. If we fail to abide by our own sense of justice, what have we become? There is no need for a group, be it small or large, that has any sort of power over another. Who can guarantee that this "police" will not be abusing their given power for personal benefit? Who will police the police?

[anomaly]

In the immortal words of Jay and Silent Bob "fuck, fuck, fuck the police, yea fuck 'em!"

But anyway, I agree with S3rna. We simply will not need a police. The people can police the people.

[STN]

As Marx said "communist society will put everyone in relations with one another, there will be no reason for each other to result in crime"
That is true, that communism/socialism will lower crime, maybe in fact stop it, but i agree that the people will police the people

[Everyday Anarchy]

What is to stop people from becoming vigilantes like they did in the "Wild West" (referring to the US)?

The vigilantes started off as respected men who went about enforcing an unwritten law of morality and kindness. But they quickly became corrupt and punished criminals insanely harsh (for example, a hanging for being a theif).


I guess it'd simply be the duty of the people to rise up and crush the irrational authority. But what if it takes place in a community that can't stand up against them.
This isn't the Wild West anymore... revolvers and knives have become M16s and grenades.

[oldunion]

what about speed limits.

[Zero]

Well hopefully a car will be obsolete and we can make use of mass transit... parking structures, roads, and parking places take up more space then you would think.

Anyway, That was the brick wall I came up against. The point of a Socialist revolution would be to overthrow centralised power... any police force of any type would be contradictory to the people. However would this require us to simply wait? If we filter out this generation (as much as I hate to say it) through Socialism, so that the next generation can be raised pure of mind, and (hopefully) quite a bit more intellegent then we are, there will of course be a serious reduction of crime on any level. Hopefully that would finaly make people realise that bashing someone over the head is not going to make your situation any better. :rolleyes:

[loveme4whoiam]

Indeed, this is the only reason I see the removal of the police working. Currently the behaviour in society just does not make it practical to remove the force that (while being used for other purposes, admittedly) is charged with keeping the peace. Frankly, I'd support increasing the number of police at the moment, in order to combat the violent culture that is around today. Call me anti-revolutionary if you want, but I see a revolution happening when the police are starting to join us :)

The problem I have with the removal of the police is that it leaves a void which will be filled, as Xero rightly says, vigilantes. What is to stop a guy from accusing someone of, I dunno, beating up his son, and getting a vigilante group to return the favour? The emphasis of law enforcement becomes moot, and simply becomes about vengance.

Of course, in a Communist society most crimes now aren't crimes, or at least there is no need for these crimes, and education in proper societal behaviour will with any luck change our attitudes to something a bit smarter than beating someone over the head with a pool cue.

[anomaly]

I support people's militias, which would probably exist on a voluntary basis. So they can take the job of any 'police'. Of course, they wouldn't be quite so reactionary as the police!

"when the police are starting to join us..."

Unfortunately, this almost never happens. In any revolutionary situation, the police routinely are the most reactionary social institution of them all, even more so than the military.

[BuyOurEverything]

True, but it cannot be justified for someone not involved to judge upon them.

Was that in reference to the love triangle murder scenario? Are you seriously suggesting that people have 'no right to judge' someone for committing murder?

[Zak]

I think it's a little optomistic to say we wont need police. The time when people trust each other and work in such complete harmony is pretty far off. I supose in a Utopian comunist society there would be no police. Maybe a sortof public justice in a small community.

To me it seems comunism works better on a small scale. A community where everyone knows everyone and is held accountable by everyone seems like it would be able to enforce it's own justice. But when a revolution first happens, like so many people here talk about, and the government is overthrown, it's unrealistic to say you wouldn't need police.

But to me, communism seems like something that would have to build up over a short time, starting localy and then spreading out.

A Socialist country certainly needs police. Anything less than a utopian or agragarian society does.

[loveme4whoiam]

So if one capitalist who owns a factory gives his workers healthcare, we should let him keep it after the revolution? I'm afraid not.
Why is that? I'm actually askign by the way, I'm not being facetious :)


I support people's militias, which would probably exist on a voluntary basis. So they can take the job of any 'police'. Of course, they wouldn't be quite so reactionary as the police!
Indeed, I think that is what a "police" force would become post-revolution, or at least post-Socialist period. An elected body of people with the task of apprehending criminals rather than dispensing the actual justice would hopefully prevent vigilante groups forming. Such groups are reactionary and would be opposed anyway by the community I guess.


But to me, communism seems like something that would have to build up over a short time, starting localy and then spreading out.
I used to think that, and to a certain extent I think I still do. However, global Communism is required in order to not have to compete with Capitalism.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 09:10 PM
Now, when I think about it, Police is the wrong term. Police are here to protect governmental property. I think of it more as a 'peace keeping' force of some sort.
You must be of a higher social class than myself with that atitude towards the police. My personal experiences with police have had nothing to protecting and serving. Intimatation, harassment, and failure to do thier jobs is all I have seen. Not to mention corruption, abuse of powers and out right criminal activity. You can keep your blue suited, Nazi pigs. I choose to protect myself and my own.

You put power over others in a persons hands and most will abuse it in some way. History alone proves this over and over. Hierarchy in any form is detestable.

[Zak]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 11:11 AM


But to me, communism seems like something that would have to build up over a short time, starting localy and then spreading out.
I used to think that, and to a certain extent I think I still do. However, global Communism is required in order to not have to compete with Capitalism.
I agree to work fully it would have to be global, but it seems imposible to have an instant consensus for everyone to switch to communism. I think the idea has to build up over a while.

But then again in countries like China or Russia, the revolutionaries had the oportunity to make a benevolent Socialist state. Instead they feared the people and got greedy to keep there power.