WAR started

[Larissa]

there is a cruise missle strike against baghdad...from our special reporter based in canada - Crazy Pete

[Pete]

Against a 'target of oppurtunity' *is sitting here listening to the radio* bush will speak at 10.15est.

[Guest1]

"target of opportunity" was struck. meaning they saw something worth changing plans for. Maybe hussein?

[CopperGoat]

I was watching it a few seconds ago. I can't take it anymore. It makes me so mad. I am going to die.

[Pete]

Where are you copper?

[Larissa]

From another firend:

It's begun.

I hope those who believed Saddam Hussein has essentially no WMD to speak of left are right. If they're not, he will again target Israel. I am reasonably sure he cannot hit London, much less Acapulco or Boston. But the dead in Israel will ride on the backs of Bush and his supporters.

I hope the people convinced that all Iraqis hate Saddam and are wishing for the US to come over and save them are right. If they're not, Iraqis might feel their country and families are under attack, not just the tyrant, and
will fight for that, hard.

I hope those who claim intelligent weapons will steer clear of civilians are right. If they're not, the casualties will heap upon the shoulders of those who cheered the attack.

I hope those that think the UN for once showed it was useful by not giving coverage to an imperial display of power are right. If they're not, the UN might go down the drain and leave most of the world utterly defenseless.

I hope those that say that the US military is now trained not to attack civilians are right, too. If they're not, brutality will be the side dish of this war.

I hope those who believe Saddam will run for his life are right. This might shorten the hostilities. If they're not, they might find themselves chasing another Osama Bin Laden and grasping at shadows.

I hope those who think this will shock fundamentalist Muslim fanatics into inaction are right. If they're not, terrorism will hit the West in a way Saddam never hit us, and for a long time.

I hope those who dismiss the rest of the Muslim and Arab world and hope they will all remain quietly silent while a foreign military dictatorship is built in Iraq are right. If they're not, the "redawing" of the M.E. map
may be not to their liking, and less under anyone's control.

I hope those who think you can decree democracy are right. If they're not, they're in for a tough time in Iraq.


Mauricio José Schwarz

[Pete]

"U.S. army in 'attack position' they are in formation, liek the US calvary in the 18th century...soldiers are mor then impatient to go..."

[Larissa]

I guess this will be the diary of the war for the records of Che-lives.com

[Kapitan Andrey]

What,what,what!? It started!? Shit!!!

[Pete]

US Commander of 7th Calvary : 'dont not expect large resistance, but as they get closer to baghdad the resistance will increase, they will have to fight hard."

[Larissa]

Quote: from Kapitan Andrey on 11:59 pm on Mar. 19, 2003

What,what,what!? It started!? Shit!!!
Kapitain Andrey turn on the radio-tv.wa}hatever and post your report!

[Kapitan Andrey]

Does allied forces begin the operation!? What is happening???

[Larissa]

Khaleej Times reports a severe sandstorm in Kuwait & southern Iraq at this time - Redstar2000 reported

[Pete]

'leadership target was attacked'

'a target they have known about for a while'

i am quoting from the radio remember.

[Guest1]

"leadership target" struck! what does that mean?

[Larissa]

I'm watching cnn live

[Pete]

the guy on the radio is telling the CNN reporters to shut up

[Exploited Class]

Operation Iraqi Freedom.

[Guest1]

I thinkt hey killed him man. strike of opportunity, leadership strike, sounds like they killed him. notice they don't say what they hit?

[Pete]

'we are so dominate it isnt a matter of darkness anymore' <-an american

[DisruptiveBehaviour]

Watching CNN live, Bush is going to go on air live in a few minutes

[Pete]

'we have just lost one of our cameras'
That is CTV's camera's they have set up around the city. there screens have gone black.

[Larissa]

Bush's speaking now
he sucks

[Pete]

I want to throw up!

[Larissa]

BUSH SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

HE SUCH AN ASSHOLE

[DisruptiveBehaviour]

President is talking, its started folks.
Its all started. Going back to speech.

[Larissa]

Quote: from exploitedclass on 12:07 am on Mar. 20, 2003
Operation Iraqi Freedom.
What a shaneful name, and after thatm what? Operation Free Iraq from the US exploitation?

[Zombie]

truly deplorable.
can anyone turn his mic off?
i turned my tv off, can't stand him anymore.

[Pete]

Points from the Warmongers Speech

'enemy has no thought for rules of war'

'we have no ambition in iraq but to destory a threat...'

'many americans are praying for your defense'

'threatens the peace of mass murder, we will meet that threat now, so we do not have to meet it later wtih police and fire fighters and doctors on the street of our cities'

'we will accept no outcomes but victory'

'we will carry on our work of peace, and defend our freedom and pass it to others through this peril, god bless our nation'

[Pete]

'decaptiation strike at saddam hussien using cruise missiles and f16 stealth fighters, to target saddam hussein and other leaders'

[Pete]

'we may not know if it was successful, for a long time'

[Guest1]

all major stations have lost cameras and links with reporters. they were told this would happen. they even tried to convinve the prince of qatar who owns aljazeera to shut that network down for a month.

total blackout.

[Exploited Class]

Quote: from Larissa on 3:18 am on Mar. 20, 2003

Quote: from exploitedclass on 12:07 am on Mar. 20, 2003
Operation Iraqi Freedom.
What a shaneful name, and after thatm what? Operation Free Iraq from the US exploitation?


I think it is operation free Iraqi oil.

[Larissa]

'decaptiation strike at saddam hussien using cruise missiles and f16 stealth fighters, to target saddam hussein and other leaders'
Crazy Pete reports from the radio he's listening to

[Pete]

CTV has a guy at the top of a building speaking live. A few more pictures are up again. Traffic in Baghdad. Not military vehicles.

[Pete]

'this is a war on saddam hussien and his regime'

[Pete]

'the leader of the united states feels he has the right to attack an nation if he percieves a threat whether or not they have made an attack against the united states'

the news is reporting no panick, no disorder, and some loud speakers playin earlier.

[Guest1]

god dammit, I feel sick

[DisruptiveBehaviour]

He finished talking, as soon as he started talking my dog howled three times.
The strikes are aimed at trying to kill Saddam.

[Zombie]

i was just thinking, how bush decided to give the invasion a start on PRIME time .... maybe to give all a good evening show ... :angry:

[4514]

"CHE SAVE THE CHILD OF OPPRESSION"
to think by the time i post this children will be blown to bits.......................
fuck amerikkka! death to all those who support it!
4514

[Pete]

I think it has slowed down for now.

[DisruptiveBehaviour]

This is disgusting. Thats all im going to say.

[Pete]

They are allowing a few hours before striking, asking a US General. An Interview. Live.

[Guest1]

meaning that they're gonna prolong the pain?

[DisruptiveBehaviour]

Im pretty sure theyre not going to attack anymore until tomorrow, I hope all of the other Comrades reading this , hope and pray that the Iraqis will survive this massacre.

[Pete]

they do not know if saddam is dead now. they tried to kill him...

'selected targets of military importance. a target in baghdad, a target south of baghdad. we don't know what they where. but there was more then one.'

[Charlie]

That speech was purely disgusting. I remember he said something about the kind spirit of the American military... righteo, George, let's get the citizens of Vietnam and Cambodia to vouche for that! And Chile and Panama while we're at it! i'm sure they have lots of nice things to say about the kind spirit of the American military! Let's get the citizens of MyLai to give a concencus! oh, no, wait, you killed them all!

ugh...

Then he gives this explanation that Saddam has positioned his military spaces near civilian zones in order to use civilians as a shield. Anyone who buys that has my sympathy. It's obviously just his preemptive plee for forgiveness once the dead start rolling in.


This is horrible and senseless. :(

[Zombie]

it's afghanistan all over again *sigh* fuck this world

[Pete]

'the numbers of kurdish troops have increased here, two leaders have entered kadick(spl) there are very much expectations of something here, but very quiet right now at this front' <- a correspondant 'embedded' with a kurdish militia

[Pete]

uss constellation embedded correspondant pilots 'solemn' feeling 'relief' there have been a few launches in the recent hours, 'more people out there in recent hours then my 2+weeks on this ship' all missions 'normaly scheduled' hanger bay full of bombs

[Beccie]

Quote: from Che y Marijuana on 3:27 am on Mar. 20, 2003
god dammit, I feel sick


ditto.

I wonder if George Bush actually believes what he says. He was crapping on about how America said something like the safety of Iraqi civilians was a major priority and that the American military will be bringers of "liberation" and "peace" he concluded his talk by saying "America will prevail. God bless her and those who defend her!"

What a load of crap! This is the worst fucking day of my life.....

[Pete]

American troops have entered the demitarized zone, and cut off the phone of 18 US reporters. Americans have been using 'electronical warfare'

[Pete]

Americans have over ridden the Iraqi radio, and are giving 'propaganda' to the people.

[Pete]

All major players have 'retired for the night.' Nothing go on tonight...

[Tasha]

I can barely stand listening to the video of the bombs dropping is so horrific, I cannot imagine the tragedy of what they call "shock and awe". A more suitable name would have been death and destruction.

[notyetacommie]

The Communists and other left-wingers should keep on uniting people to combat the mischievous government of the US self- procalimed "President" . People of America, impeach this son of a ***** (and you know who the ***** is), he has gotten way too dangerous to stay in power.

People of the world, demand that your governments introduce economic sanctions to US. They should understand that they are people, as the Iraqis, they are in no way better. No one has given them the right to decide for the whole world. Some restaurants, hotels and other public facilities in Russia have already stated they don't serve the US and British citizens. It should be done globally! As dangerous people are isolated from the society, dangerous nations should also be isolated from the world community. People of the Earth, disarm the again, self-proclaimed "world policemen"! Disarm Bush! No idiot should be in charge of the world peace!
Power to the United Nations!

[Fidelbrand]

Quote: from notyetacommie on 4:32 am on Mar. 20, 2003
The Communists and other left-wingers should keep on uniting people to combat the mischievous government of the US self- procalimed "President" . People of America, impeach this son of a ***** (and you know who the ***** is), he has gotten way too dangerous to stay in power.

People of the world, demand that your governments introduce economic sanctions to US. They should understand that they are people, as the Iraqis, they are in no way better. No one has given them the right to decide for the whole world. Some restaurants, hotels and other public facilities in Russia have already stated they don't serve the US and British citizens. It should be done globally! As dangerous people are isolated from the society, dangerous nations should also be isolated from the world community. People of the Earth, disarm the again, self-proclaimed "world policemen"! Disarm Bush! No idiot should be in charge of the world peace!
Power to the United Nations!

well said, man! :wink:

US always apply standards to other countries.. world police? Up yours, Bush!

[Rebelde para Siempre]

Oh god I hate Bush, I hope he slips in the shower tonight and breaks his own neck.

Dark day for the world.

[Rebelde para Siempre]

You know I usually say things more intelligent but,

FUCK AMERIKA, FUCK BUSH, FUCK HOWARD AND FUCK BLAIR!!!!!!

BURN THE AUSTRALIAN FLAG, BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG, I SPIT ON THE ALLIED TROOPS!!!!!

When are our leaders going to fucking stop acting like children? When are people going to fuckin' learn????? Here in Australia we are no better than a fucking dictatorship, the majority said NO and we were ignored. It's fucking bedtime for democracy. Politicians make me sick.

[YerbaMateJ]

"La bestialidad de imperialista..."---ECG

[Fidelbrand]

How's it going? Any further news.. comrades? :cheesy:

[YerbaMateJ]

The United States is still a falling empire. Nothing has changed much.

[Larissa]

Iraq shot two missiles targeting Kwait but did not cause any damage. :sad:

Saddam is speakeing to his people.

[Larissa]

Huge demonstrations against the war in Australia going on right now.

[Larissa]

Forwarded from a friend of mine.

A few minutes ago a man on CNN was talking - I quote - about the "beauty of a cruise missile." The glee of CNN reporters at this war is unbearable to watch. I turned off the TV set. Experts, military maps, reporters in combat fatigues, military euphemisms, military jargon. And above all excitement that the show has begun. A BBC reporter said a few minutes ago that this initial "decapitation attack" is not what everyone, especially CNN and BBC journalists, had been told by the US administration to expect. Although the "shock and awe" attack is still likely to follow, said the BBC journalist, the 40 cruise missiles (again, what "beauty" ) fired last night achieved what few would have expected a few days ago: the element of surprise. What else
they achieved no one knows yet.

Paul



(Edited by Larissa at 7:46 am on Mar. 20, 2003)

[Dench]

I feel helpless and extremely frustrated when watching the news, the bush-regim´s propaganda, indoktrination campain is the winners of the fight. Once again the peoples rights, woices and lives have been conquered by money.
WHEN WILL WE LEARN ?
You can´t kill a man by bombing a country ! Did it work on the "Usama-situation" ? NO, it didn´t. But it resulted in a outrageus loss of civilian lives.
It sickens me to hear Bush and his pack of wolwes use the deaths of the people in the twin towers as a "reason" to an imperialistic war. Even the most brainwashed bush-fanatic cant say that it´s ok to use the deaths of it´s own people to make money, and increase the state´s power.
This is a illegal war ! They have no right to invade...
How many lives will be wasted before the people get´s enough of bush´s lies and propaganda ?
What state will be the next ?
I can´t sleep no more...
The world need´d to wake up an smell the coffey! Bush is the most dangerous man today ! Far more than Saddam, Far more then Usama Bin-Ladin, becouse he isn´t questioned enought when he does wrong, USA can´t be sanctioned, it´s too powerfull!
This War dosn´t just kill People, innocent lives, it´s killing the peoples rights, and it´s hope. Now bush knows that he can do anything whithout the UN´s support, he is KING, CASH is KING.
And that sickens me.....
-----------------------------------------
A thought to the innocent in Iraq, and a thought to the peoples right -R.I.P-

[Larissa]

The propaganda war has officially begun, too.

"The Home Office also advised UK citizens to keep tinned food, bottled water and a battery-powered torch in their houses in case of a major terror attack in Britain."


Same in Israel according to CNN.

[Larissa]

Bush's lies suck!

Hope the next state he tries to attack is North Korea, the only country that, in my opinion, can actually smash the US forever.

(Edited by Larissa at 7:52 am on Mar. 20, 2003)

[Beccie]

Quote: from Larissa on 10:28 am on Mar. 20, 2003
Huge demonstrations against the war in Australia going on right now.


I went to a demonstration in Melbourne earlier today

[Larissa]

Good Commie01!! I saw it on TV, lots of ppl!

[Larissa]

Aznar (Spain) is talking shit live on TV.

[notyetacommie]

When US bombed Afghanistan in 2001, they said that this was because of connection with 9/11. Usama bin Laden hasn't been found, as you know.
Now Bush is saying Iraq has conections with 9/11.
The pilots were Saudi Arabians, as we all were told, i.e. it's only logical to assume Saudi Arabia will be bombed next (if North Korea doesn't take its place). As US officials keep presenting false evidene to the world community (Powell is not the only one), and act DESPITE the fact that their evidence is disproven, you may expect any country to be "connected to 9/11 events", and, thus, bombed.

As the US actions all over the world have inspired a lot of hatred and anti-americanism in a lot of nations, each of them can be considered to be soure of terrorism by brass heads in Pentagon. Each of them will be bombed.
As for WMD, has anyone heard Bush or Powell or whoever speaking about the disarmament of the USA?

No, they keep increasing their war budget. Why? To dominate.

The 9/11 showed that some people won't tolerate this blood-sucking policy the US has been using towards other nations for years (if we consider Native Americans, then for centuries).

Instead of changing these policies, US is further aggravating the problems. They want more terrorism-they will get more terrorism. People of the US, flee before it is too late, emigrate!

[Larissa]

"Uama bin Laden hasn't been found, as you know"

And he will never be found.

[4514]

just got back from the peace protest in perth aussie, it was pretty good turn out all over the country, it hurts to say this being a kiwi but the aussie people are alright and have alot of heart, peace for iraq!
4514

[Larissa]

According to CNN, Patriot missiles have intercepted two Iraqi scud missiles.

[Larissa]

Quote: from Larissa on 8:21 am on Mar. 20, 2003
According to CNN, Patriot missiles have intercepted two Iraqi scud missiles.

And no chemical weapons have been used so far.

[Disgustipated]

Massive civilian deaths soon to follow.

In bush's speech he stated that Saddam is hiding military around big civilian centers. "Committing one last act of atrocity"

He must think we're all as stupid as he is.

Reading between the lines here....is that the US is going to bomb the ever loving shit out of Baghdad and kill countless civilians. The propaganda rhetoric again will be that Saddam had military installations there and killing everyone was needed to get the military installations. "Collateral Damage". A nice sanitized word for mass killings.

The media here in Boston is playing this fucking thing up like it was a football game. The newpapers have sketches of the aircraft and other weapons...What's next trading cards?

Fuck them all.

[Angie]

I, too, went to the Melbourne protest this afternoon. Arrived there feeling just shy of murderous, left feeling a hell of a lot better (though are still understandably ticked off about the world's current situation) - don't ever let anyone tell you that protesting's not good for the soul.

Get out there and protest, everyone. Make your voices heard.

[ReduntilDead]

Larissa: "And no chemical weapons have been used so far."
I was seriously expecting to wake up this morning with news of either chem attacks in Iraq or terrorist attacks in America or one of their allies i.g. Israel. I am Going to a peace protest later today, hope that makes me feel better today.

[Pete]

"The results of lastnights attacks are 1 dead 14 injured" I assume they are talking about civilizains, because if Saddamw as dead he would not be currently speaking to his people.

[Pete]

'all of this is driven by zionism, of american agression'
How many people have spoken of Zionism? This radio station may not be neutral. But atleast it gives ALL sides to the arguements.

[Pete]

It has been comformed. The first casualities where INNOCENT CIVILIANS. America's first target was SUBURBAN AREA using weapons they admitt are EXTREMELY INACCURATE and they did not believe they had a good chance of hitting thier target with SATELLITE GUIDED bombs.

[Larissa]

They are also using their nighthawks (invisible planes).

[Resorte]

I strongly believe that this war is going to increase the chances of a terrorist attack on US soil and unfortunately I’m a firefighter in the Washington DC area, I would rather be a piquetero in Argentina or be with the Mothers of Plaza de Mayo protesting for all the injustices of this world.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

I am suprised that not one plane has been shot down.

[Hodgo]

Quote: from notyetacommie on 4:32 am on Mar. 20, 2003
The Communists and other left-wingers should keep on uniting people to combat the mischievous government of the US self- procalimed "President" . People of America, impeach this son of a ***** (and you know who the ***** is), he has gotten way too dangerous to stay in power.

People of the world, demand that your governments introduce economic sanctions to US. They should understand that they are people, as the Iraqis, they are in no way better. No one has given them the right to decide for the whole world. Some restaurants, hotels and other public facilities in Russia have already stated they don't serve the US and British citizens. It should be done globally! As dangerous people are isolated from the society, dangerous nations should also be isolated from the world community. People of the Earth, disarm the again, self-proclaimed "world policemen"! Disarm Bush! No idiot should be in charge of the world peace!
Power to the United Nations!


Sorry mate, but this is utter crap. Refusing to serve US and British citicens in resteraunts is a display of prejudice, reminiscent of the Jim Crowe laws in America and the laws set in South Africa and India (and countless other countries) by the British. I hate the war, but this is wrong.

And as for power to the UN? I hope you're referring to a different UN, as opposed to the one that enforced the sanctions which killed one million Iraqis.

[Inocente]

It is a sad day indeed in the eyes of the peace loving people of the world.

Bushito feels he should finish what Bushote did not 12 years ago. I must remid him that the Romans were a great empire and they dissapear....nothing in this world last forever.

Americans should concentrate in our own internal problems like gang wars, drug addition, economical equality, homelessness, racism, education, morality of our youth and then maybe go help the problems ofthe world if we are asked too.


NO BLOOD FOR OIL

[truthaddict11]

i am ashamed of my country

[Pete]

JEAN CHRETIEN SPEAKS, and I quote:

"we are not participating in the war, it is very clear. we do not having any troops there, we will have no troop. i did not want to have a war...now we have a war. we have to live with that reality...i hope there are few causlities...we were involved in kosovo and we managed to be lucky that not one soldier of canada...were victims of those wars..."

[Larissa]

Two oil wells have been set on fire.

[oki]

somebody do something.

[Larissa]

Large detonations and explosions are seen and heard (at least on TV) in Baghdad - 3:11 pm (Bs As time - 3:00 GMT) 9:11 pm Baghdada time.

(Edited by Larissa at 3:12 pm on Mar. 20, 2003)

[chamo]

One civilian dead, lots more injured. That is too much already.

[CompadreGuerrillera]

yes, the war has actually started..... i am furious, i decided to call in sick as a protest, and say over the phone that the war has made me sick, and it has, it would hazzardous to my fellow classmates to send me to school, i might kill them out of anger :) anyways, thats a bunch of shit, this fuckin war, it is almost surreal, kinda like i was watching a movie or something
this shit is absurd

[Zombie]

kinda like i was watching a movie or something
it's all in the name of entertainment my friend. this war was hollywood style the day they started talkin bout it. just as afghanistan was. now in a few weeks or months, the show will be over, most people will stop talkin bout it and they'll all forget that their was once an invasion of iraq. much like afghanistan.
all in the name of entertainment.

[El Brujo]

There was a protest at my school today. Some old twat was erasing anti-war messages and messages to join the rally on the walls. I literally felt like killing her. These pro-war zealots should be sent to Iraq while it is being bombed, let's see if they would be so supportive of it then. Selfish, yankee-supremacist sacks of shit.

[Larissa]

Explosions rock Baghdad according to CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/20/...main/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/20/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html)

Baghdad is fighting back using all its power.
Hope they can send the fucking yanks back home.

[Larissa]

Radio Baghdad
http://www.baghdadradio.com/

Iraq has shot down a US helicopter!

[Larissa]

WTF????????

Bush has asked al governments around the world to expel Iraqi ambassadors and stop providing services at Iraqi embassies, WHO THE HELL HE THINK HE IS????

This is another proof of how much he violates all kinds of treaties and diplomatic actions.

[Larissa]

According to the Catalan TV station TV3, the National Library of Iraq has already been destroyed.

[Larissa]

(From Mauricio Schwarz - a translator colleague)
A few sorry souls must be gleeful. Now they can see and hear the bombs falling. But they're not Danish bombs, nor Salvadoran bombs... The "coalition of the killing" seems to still have only one active member...

The schizoid world the Mr. Rights love us to have... trying to churn out one more thousand words translated while the TV shows what "disarmament"
looks like, fires raging, useless anti-aircraft batteries shooting at nothing... getting ready to go out on the street at 8 o'clock to thank the Anatolys and the Renes...

The warmongers continue to adorn Lantra with their self-serving chirrups... happy as puppies because a faraway country is being attacked... spitting mantras about "few victims" but making sure they have no respect for any victims, many or few... it's their war, they want to enjoy it all...

Civilization was born somewhere right around where the infrared camera is panning, the Tigris river... it's pretty stupid.

But, man, it makes money...

Mauricio

[Pete]

the National Library of Iraq has already been destroyed.

That is as good as a crime against humanity. Do those libraries not hold untold knoweldge from the past? Do they not hold records of Saddam's regime? Of people who have excelled in one field or another? The countries history? Fuck American Militarism.


WHO THE HELL HE THINK HE IS????

He thinks he is the 'leader of the freeworld' he wasnt even elected democratically by his own people, let alone anyother 'free' citizen of the world! I hope an assissin finds the points between his eyes, but sadlythat will cause more strife and only the CIA can kill a president anyways.

[Resorte]

Quote: from Larissa on 8:39 pm on Mar. 20, 2003
According to the Catalan TV station TV3, the National Library of Iraq has already been destroyed.


The U.S government doesn’t want people to be educated, to think for themselves, that would be to dangerous for any third world country. This countries might try to liberate themselves from imperialism, Probably the Bush-Cheney Junta is planning to blow up all the libraries in the world so we can be as dumb as the American people with a few exceptions.

[Larissa]

More comments from my colleagues around the world...

"For those who appreciate personal views from around the world, I am translating a message from a friend of mine, a Bosnian who has lived in Qatar since the war in Bosnia.

No breaking news, just a chunk of atmosphere. I am
keeping the original punctuation:

Lipa"

===
Qatar, Doha...

Nobody in the streets... disco clubs and bars are closed,
westerners generally do not leave their homes, we were
told to avoid public places... not for fear of Saddam -
rather afraid of some lunatic with a bomb or a gun...

All business stopped, I spent the last 7 days at the swimming pool / beach... Surreal - you sit and subathe, you drink cocktails and watch huuuge American gray transporters carrying lethal machines to and fro

To me, as a former Sarajevan, this atmosphere brings no joy... too much deja vu... I bought a plane ticket for London for April 3rd - it was the first available option. I am leaving for a week to cool it a little. That is, unless the airport shuts down in the meantime...

Even that is a funny coincidence - on 3 April 92, I left for Belgrade "for a week to cool it a little", ha ha... to return 10 years later... Hope the history won't repeat itself.

There are rumours here like you wouldn't believe. Saddam is alive, no he is not, the revolution has sprung up, coup d' etat attempted, you name it. Most are probably spread by the Americans who took over all the frequences of the Iraqi tv and radio, yesterday.

For dessert, a fresh joke from around here: When the Americans occupy Iraq, they will divide it into three zones: Regular, Premium and Unleaded :-)

Best regards
===

[Zombie]

"When the Americans occupy Iraq, they will divide it into three zones: Regular, Premium and Unleaded"
i dunno if its appropriate to laugh in times like these, but what the heck, LOL.. nice one:)

[Larissa]

Second US helicopter down.

100 misiles fired by US and UK hitting Baghdada and Basora, 4 iraqi soldiers are reported dead.

[Larissa]

What's wrong with France now??

I got this from a friend and also hear on TV that there's been some chemical stuff found in Paris, anyone knows anything about this?
********
France, which threatened to veto any U.N. resolution authorizing war and was
the loudest opponent in the West, expressed "deep concern" at the start of
the war and called for it to be finished as soon as possible. (CNN)

That's exactly what I expected them to do: make a show of standing against
the war before it started and then turning their backs and washing their
hands when the bombs start falling.

§&#%¢£@@#!!

Tomás Rosa Bueno

[mentalbunny]

Happy new war everyone.

Well it's a mess isn't it? Now I guess all we can hope for is a swift war and I hope for their sake that they find WMD or there will be egg on several faces.

[Larissa]

Turkey Opens Airspace for U.S. Warplanes
By FRANK BRUNI

Turkey's Parliament voted today to open its airspace to
American warplanes bound for Iraq, both to transport troops
to northern Iraq and to take supplies to the region.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/20/internat...-TURKEY.html?th (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/20/international/worldspecial/20CND-TURKEY.html?th)

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from mentalbunny on 10:28 pm on Mar. 20, 2003
Happy new war everyone.

Well it's a mess isn't it? Now I guess all we can hope for is a swift war and I hope for their sake that they find WMD or there will be egg on several faces.

If they don't find the WMD's, they will probably plant some of USA's and say it was Iraq's. The Yanqui government has done sneakier things...

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Which buildings exactly, in Baghdad have been destroyed? CNN has only reported of one, I'm a bit reluctant to believe this.

Onto another point: why the hell is Turkey joining in? they're more hostile to the the Kurds than the Ba'ath party, much more.

[Larissa]

There are lots of demonstrations of protest against the war going on around the world. In Argentina there has been a serious incident with the protesters that gathered today at 5 PM in front of the US embassy. The police started shooting tear gas and arrested some people who were throwing stones against the US embassy. (The embassy is 7 blocks away from my house so there is a mess everywhere in my neighbourhood)

I'm watching local news: there has been also bomb threats at our International Airport in Buenos Aires. Someone reported that bombs have been place in US airline planes (AA - UA).

[Zombie]

Quote: from Victorcommie on 6:14 pm on Mar. 20, 2003
Which buildings exactly, in Baghdad have been destroyed? CNN has only reported of one, I'm a bit reluctant to believe this.

Onto another point: why the hell is Turkey joining in? they're more hostile to the the Kurds than the Ba'ath party, much more.

maybe this : $
u no theyre gonna get a fat check for doing that. i dunno im just saying

[Larissa]

Quote: from Victorcommie on 8:14 pm on Mar. 20, 2003
Which buildings exactly, in Baghdad have been destroyed? CNN has only reported of one, I'm a bit reluctant to believe this.
The National Library and Saddam's wife's house in the outskirts of Baghdad

(Edited by Larissa at 8:19 pm on Mar. 20, 2003)

[KRAZYKILLA]

Well, if as long as the USA is involved at the minimum at least kill saddam. if they dont...= waste.. war is already waste. imperialism is evil; thanks to England's mass captivity of India, arab world etc. look what they did to africa.... yowch.

[Larissa]

The FBI is scared to death, looking for a suspect (probably Al-Qaeda) named Shukrijumah.

Tremble you idiots -> FBI-CIA

[KRAZYKILLA]

Yuck at CIA And FBI...

[Larissa]

3 protesters have been arrested in Washington as they managed to stop the traffic at peak hours. Also, lots of demonstrations against the war are going on in many US cities.

[Pete]

So the second war begins

[Larissa]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...,918027,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,918027,00.html)
9.30pm update

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Marine Commandos take Al Faw peninsula

· 3 Commando Brigade seizes Red Beach area
· US and UK marines hold Iraqi border town
· Baghdad palace bombed

Staff and agencies
Thursday March 20, 2003


Smoke billows from the planning ministry in Baghdad after it was hit by a missile. Photo: Ramzi Haidar, EPA.


Royal Marine Commandos have taken part in an assault on the important Al Faw peninsula - the area known as Red Beach - on the Iranian border, following an intense bombardment from Kuwait.
The amphibious and air assault on Red Beach saw 3 Commando Brigade taking control of the area tonight in the most significant confirmed land activity so far by British troops. Reports say that the Commandos invaded the beachhead making way for a mine-clearing operation. The area is now reported to be occupied by the Scimitar tanks of the Queen's Dragoon Guards.

The Red Beach invasion points to the Commandos moving towards the southern Iraqi town of Basra.

US and British marines crossing the Kuwaiti border into southern Iraq tonight seized the Iraqi border town of Umm Qasr, the official Kuwaiti News Agency reported.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I've heard of large protests in NY in Time square

[Larissa]

Yes, Victorcommie, I hear about that too!
But the US media doesn't want to talk about it. I hope the US citizens oust their chimpanzee prez.

(Edited by Larissa at 9:27 pm on Mar. 20, 2003)

[Tasha]

The media is covering up usa casualties and is not exposing civilian loss. This is horrible media does anyone have any sites with accurate information?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Looks like some oil wells in N. Iraq have been set on fire. This is very enviromentaly dangerous and harmful to the post-war Iraqi economy, not a good move on Hussein's part.

[Tasha]

Saddam is winning this war politcally. Bush is too stupid to realize this. Yes bush may get his oil. Anti-americanism will rise substantially from this war.

What difference is it if someone elses brother or sister dies in Iraq to yours in the usa to all peoples. Human being should all be regarded as equal but it seems most pro-war people really dont give a shit about loss of life because they wont be affected by it (it is simply words to them). This is the height of ignorance.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Tasha, watch CNN, they cover both civilian and military losses.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Tasha, watch CNN, they cover both civilian and military losses.

[Kapitan Andrey]

[pessimism has taken me over]
All that time I've looked the news...
Everething is sucks!!! :(
Iraq soliders don't want to die for Saddam!!! :(
Already 17 soliders surrended without battle!!! :(
We can't do anything!!! :(

Land troops of "FUCKIN' allies" has started the moving...Saddam is alive(yet!?)...
Damn, their anti-air defence can't do anything!!! :(
Shit! Those "scuds" didn't cause any casualties by enemy side!!! :(

By the way...In our news I've seen the demonstrations in Germany...I've seen someone with Flag of(you are not going to belive me) Che-Lives...may be it was Malte!?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

did the flag mention "Che-lives" on it, or was it just the "Hasta la Victoria Siempre" slogan on a red flag witha picture of Che?

[Kapitan Andrey]

It was long distance, but I think that there was "...www..." in the start...

[Knightro]

This war is bullshit, and I don't believe any of the propaganda that the us government says. They make shit up and tell lies. They say this war is for the people of Iraq and because saddam harbers terrorist's. They have'nt proven any of that. It's all about oil, and bush kills the innocent.

Me

"Baghdad is burning, Bush your voice is so soothing. Your cunning mantra of killing, you try and numb me and purge me. My thoughts are blaming you, oil silence mocks the legless, now there traveling in coffins. While the pipeline is gushing, here they lie in tombs. Mass groves for the oil pump, and now the price is set."


Zack De La Rocha


The american government will be our demise my friends. CHE-Lives

[notyetacommie]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: from notyetacommie on 4:32 am on Mar. 20, 2003
The Communists and other left-wingers should keep on uniting people to combat the mischievous government of the US self- procalimed "President" . People of America, impeach this son of a ***** (and you know who the ***** is), he has gotten way too dangerous to stay in power.

People of the world, demand that your governments introduce economic sanctions to US. They should understand that they are people, as the Iraqis, they are in no way better. No one has given them the right to decide for the whole world. Some restaurants, hotels and other public facilities in Russia have already stated they don't serve the US and British citizens. It should be done globally! As dangerous people are isolated from the society, dangerous nations should also be isolated from the world community. People of the Earth, disarm the again, self-proclaimed "world policemen"! Disarm Bush! No idiot should be in charge of the world peace!
Power to the United Nations!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry mate, but this is utter crap. Refusing to serve US and British citicens in resteraunts is a display of prejudice, reminiscent of the Jim Crowe laws in America and the laws set in South Africa and India (and countless other countries) by the British. I hate the war, but this is wrong.

And as for power to the UN? I hope you're referring to a different UN, as opposed to the one that enforced the sanctions which killed one million Iraqis.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Slightly less than a half of the people you are defending- Americans- voted for an explicit dickhead (sorry, if it is not overly politically-correct). MSN polls show that 70% of them approve of the war in Iraq. Look what they ARE CONCERNED about (www.msn.com front page):
"Coping with war anxiety: 9 dos and 1 don't", "How to talk to children about war" War anxiety! I love it!

Then, blocade can be as good as US-inspired Iraq blocade. Or the Cuba blocade by US itself. It is called fighting enemy with the enemy's weapon.

This war is waged on US taxpayer's money. Thus, taxpayers are fully responsible for what is happening. The world should FORCE them to impeach that criminal they take for "hero" because he tells their mates to kill INNOCENT CIVILIANS! They should do it "democratically"
otherwise the world will explode with the revolution, which I am personally all for.

Now, UN. As soon as they showed they can be not so pro-American, with the majority turning down the US appeals to buy votes (Vershbow, the US ambassador in Russia, told our foreign minister that the relations of our countries as well as cooperation in vital for Russia spheres will suffer greately if Russia vetoes their pro-war resolution- very similar to what Larissa described, and what can be seen in Turkey parliament- they sold their support!)--they should be shitted on the way US did last morning in Iraq?

Yes, it (UN) by all means should be re-organised, so that no fuck-up sonny could do whatever his bloody psyche wishes!

FREE THE WORLD FROM THE US!
FREE THE WORLD FROM THE BUSH FAMILY!
START THE PERMANENT REVOLUTION!

funny, the Poice is arresting protestants all over the world. Has the Police of all this countries been paid by the blood money US offered to the gobernments?

[Larissa]

Sahaf and the Iraqi Minister of Interior are showing the pics and videos of the wounded iraqi civilians. Bush did not bomb military targets.

[Larissa]

Quote: from Victorcommie on 9:42 pm on Mar. 20, 2003
Looks like some oil wells in N. Iraq have been set on fire. This is very enviromentaly dangerous and harmful to the post-war Iraqi economy, not a good move on Hussein's part.
15 oil wells are burning.

[Hodgo]

Quote: from notyetacommie on 6:14 am on Mar. 21, 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: from notyetacommie on 4:32 am on Mar. 20, 2003
The Communists and other left-wingers should keep on uniting people to combat the mischievous government of the US self- procalimed "President" . People of America, impeach this son of a ***** (and you know who the ***** is), he has gotten way too dangerous to stay in power.

People of the world, demand that your governments introduce economic sanctions to US. They should understand that they are people, as the Iraqis, they are in no way better. No one has given them the right to decide for the whole world. Some restaurants, hotels and other public facilities in Russia have already stated they don't serve the US and British citizens. It should be done globally! As dangerous people are isolated from the society, dangerous nations should also be isolated from the world community. People of the Earth, disarm the again, self-proclaimed "world policemen"! Disarm Bush! No idiot should be in charge of the world peace!
Power to the United Nations!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry mate, but this is utter crap. Refusing to serve US and British citicens in resteraunts is a display of prejudice, reminiscent of the Jim Crowe laws in America and the laws set in South Africa and India (and countless other countries) by the British. I hate the war, but this is wrong.

And as for power to the UN? I hope you're referring to a different UN, as opposed to the one that enforced the sanctions which killed one million Iraqis.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Slightly less than a half of the people you are defending- Americans- voted for an explicit dickhead (sorry, if it is not overly politically-correct). MSN polls show that 70% of them approve of the war in Iraq. Look what they ARE CONCERNED about (www.msn.com front page):
"Coping with war anxiety: 9 dos and 1 don't", "How to talk to children about war" War anxiety! I love it!

Then, blocade can be as good as US-inspired Iraq blocade. Or the Cuba blocade by US itself. It is called fighting enemy with the enemy's weapon.

This war is waged on US taxpayer's money. Thus, taxpayers are fully responsible for what is happening. The world should FORCE them to impeach that criminal they take for "hero" because he tells their mates to kill INNOCENT CIVILIANS! They should do it "democratically"
otherwise the world will explode with the revolution, which I am personally all for.

Now, UN. As soon as they showed they can be not so pro-American, with the majority turning down the US appeals to buy votes (Vershbow, the US ambassador in Russia, told our foreign minister that the relations of our countries as well as cooperation in vital for Russia spheres will suffer greately if Russia vetoes their pro-war resolution- very similar to what Larissa described, and what can be seen in Turkey parliament- they sold their support!)--they should be shitted on the way US did last morning in Iraq?

Yes, it (UN) by all means should be re-organised, so that no fuck-up sonny could do whatever his bloody psyche wishes!

FREE THE WORLD FROM THE US!
FREE THE WORLD FROM THE BUSH FAMILY!
START THE PERMANENT REVOLUTION!

funny, the Poice is arresting protestants all over the world. Has the Police of all this countries been paid by the blood money US offered to the gobernments?


You cant alienate an entire race of people because you disagree with some of their political beliefs, no matter how fucked up you think they are. And I agree that Bush is an explicit dickhead, I agree with pretty much any negative remark people want to throw at Bush, but you cant hate someone or alienate a race of people just because some of them happen to think differently to you.

A million innocent Iraqis have died from the US's blockade. Cuba -from what I know- is in a state of near poverty from the US's blockade (I could be wrong, Im not as endorsed in Cuban current affairs). If it leads to America civilians dying or living in poverty its not good, I dont care WHAT their government has done, you cant punish the people.

70% of Americans say they support war, but in polls, 60% of Americans think there's a proven link between Saddam and Bin Laden. Alot of American people are fed bullshit by the media on a daily basis, Americans are NOT evil or dangerous people, they're getting propaganda and patriotic bile pumped down their throats by the media thats owned and controlled by millionaires who'll profit from the war.

I pitty anyone who ever trusted the UN. They're made up of politicians, all out for their own interests. The UN, like the Pentagon, and like NATO, or nothing but fuckin glorified gangsters.



(Edited by Hodgo at 11:00 am on Mar. 21, 2003)

[Hodgo]

Quote: from Larissa on 8:39 pm on Mar. 20, 2003
According to the Catalan TV station TV3, the National Library of Iraq has already been destroyed.


"Where one burns books, one must also, in the end, burn people"- Heinrich Hein

[notyetacommie]

Hodgo,
Bush has to be deprived of power. He is the threat to the world community, as much as or even more than Saddam. In any way, UN inspectors will not find it overly difficult to find WMD in US disposal.
An idiot with the right to explode this world needs to be removed, no matter who it is- Saddam (who hasn't been really proven to have any WMD, or he would have definitely used it yesterday) or Bush (who you know DOES HAVE THE STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!! And, moreover, IS READY TO USE IT!!!!!!!!!!!)
For now, it's the USA citizens who can take him out of power more easily than anybody.
Funny, but they won't.
They (the majority, as we are told) view this war as a computer game. What do we do now? I want my daughter to live, you know, and to live in the world full of people!

It is going to be a very long time before someone starves to death in US in case of blockade. They haven't gone through war on their territory, as Iraq did. They don't really know what the word suffer means (just imagine that Bush suffering, haha!). Because if they did, they would think twice before paying the taxes. They would be responsible in their choices. They are not.
It is pretty clear that the wealth of the US is directly connected with the poverty in other countries. For instance, have you heard about China syndrome? It's when US companies make money buying goods from Chinese factories literally for pennies and selling them in the Western markets. They exploit the people of China.

Your logic is strange when it comes to Iraq. "Oh, no, innocent US citizens will suffer from sanctions, just like the people of Iraq" The people of Iraq are going to be killed, but I am not allowed to say anything about US citizens.
Who actually buy newspapers from those who lie to them, who believe to CNN and Bush the II, oilking and murderer.
Who let him stay in power after his brother helped him steal the presidency.
Who should be safe from any attempt to show them the real world, the world their taxmoney created.
Who don't say anything when anti-war protesters get arrested for saying what they think.
Who are sure that this social order they call "democracy" should benefit the people of the rest of the world. Iraqi peolpe, for instance, who may die, but be thus liberated.

I am following THEIR logic, when I propose to introduce sanctions against USA. It is the only way to change the way their thinking process is going now. You change the circumstances- people start to adjust their mentality to the new environment.

But maybe I am too angry. Maybe this anger hampers my reasoning. I am all ears to hear what YOU suggest.

I agree with you that UN is not perfect. And most of the time it sucks. But this time is different. The majority said NO to war. This gives hope that they will say NO to the next war and to the next aggressor (hopefully, it will not be US, which I doubt). This gives hope they will be more efficient in the future.
US killed that hope yesterday.
And they will kill you some day

[Pete]

I have cut my self away from the news because I became becoming extremely bitter and angry and counter productive. Jean Chretien said "We do not want a war. We have a war. We must live with the reality." There is no way to stop the war from moving forward. Bush does not care about popular opinion he stated taht clearly after the F-15 protest. He likes democracy, but only the kind of those who agree with him. By this time next year, though, Public opinion will mean a lot to him. He will be campaigning for re-election. What must be done is a paradigm shift of the people that notyetacommie pointed out. Changing their opinions to more educated ones. I have been talking to Americans in various communities who say "I support Bush because he is our president. You always have to support your president. Don't tell me what he did/is doing. I don't care." Americans have too much respect for thier own authority, regardless what Lipset believes. He was an American and glorified his position. The change that is needed is one of education. Start passing out flyers, or continue to do it. Start bringing it up at every chance in class, and make it a debate of legitmancy, or continue to do so. Start protesting the war, or if like me you are isolated from any, tell your peers of the protests, or continue to do so.

DO NOT be baised against people because of nationality. WE ARE ALL HUMAN. If you start fighting fire with fire you will have an out of control blaze on your hand and you are fucked in your cause. Educate those who are ignorant, or who are smart but some how support Bush. Allude to what is going on. One of my teachers always talks like 'the amount of people that are going to die in Iraq, civilians, equals atleast 10 times the amount of people in the City of Kawartha Lakes (75 000)'. That strikes home and makes you think.

Pete

[vodun]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid...own_2&printer=1 (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&u=/ap/20030321/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_conquered_town_2&printer=1)

"Americans very good," Ali Khemy said. "Iraq wants to be free."

Some chanted, "Ameriki! Ameriki!"

Many others in the starving town just patted their stomachs and raised their hands, begging for food.

A man identifying himself only as Abdullah welcomed the arrival of the U.S. troops: "Saddam Hussein is no good. Saddam Hussein a butcher."

An old woman shrouded in black — one of the very few women outside — knelt toward the feet of Americans, embracing an American woman. A younger man with her pulled her away, giving her a warning sign by sliding his finger across his throat.

In 1991, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died after prematurely celebrating what they believed was their liberation from Saddam after the Gulf War. Some even pulled down a few pictures of Saddam then — only to be killed by Iraqi forces.

Gurfein playfully traded pats with a disabled man and turned down a dinner invitation from townspeople.

"Friend, friend," he told them in Arabic learned in the first Gulf War.

[Che ChicK]

What is in the beginning will be in the end

[truthaddict11]

the military still hasnt begun its "shock and awe" campaign. Once they start this there will be heavy civilian casualties. I say is is safe to say the United States has now DESTROYED ANY bridges of relationships in the middle east ,excluding Israel of course, and any relations with Europe.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Shock and Awe.....my word.

[Pete]

Not all in Europe. With the people yes, but not the leaders.

Baghdad is being bombed. Or it was bombed a few hours ago. Heavily I hear.

They call it shock and awe, all that means is that many many civilians will die.

[Larissa]

We are asked to believe two things: one, that Iraq has missiles with that kind of range, which is not in itself unbelievable, however unlikely. But two, that all of a sudden Patriot missiles have started working is a bit too
much. They must be camera-shy...

Like those aura-readers who cannot work if there is one unbeliever in the room.

[Kapitan Andrey]

...No...Iraqi soliders don't want to die for Hussein...near to 1500 soliders and officers are surrended!!!

This war is loosed...everethimg is over...soon.

[Lefty]

man...i could say a lot about this, but I doubt many things that i would say havent already been said. It sickens me utterly that the people of the world are so utterly ignored in favor of the few.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

So I hear they bombed baghdad the second time earlier today, as well as a few other cities in N. Iraq. The US has seized several oil wells, oil refineries, and cities. Does anyone know exactly what happens to an enemy town once it is seized by the US? CNN keeps saying how cities have been seized, but what exactly happens? Can anyone tell me what buildings have been destroyed in the cities that were bombed and how many Iraqi casualties there are? CNN is very repetitive and never tells me what I want to know, damn them!

[Iris]

They say that it was only government buildings that were bombed, however over 200 civilians were wounded in the attack, many of them children. I hate this war dammit! Everybody is against it and Bush and Blair don't give a damn!
There are also MANY rumors that Sadam Husein was either injured or killed during the first attack. Does anyone know more about this? Is it just another propaganda trick do get him to come out or is there a chance it might be true?

[Larissa]

Quote: from Socialsmo o Muerte on 6:49 pm on Mar. 21, 2003
Shock and Awe.....my word.

From The New York Times:

The Day the Bombs Rained Down on Baghdad
o the Editor:

As we use our air power to bomb Baghdad, we are squandering all the good will and sympathy that Sept. 11 brought us.

We have abused the power that military success brought us. We have spent the surplus into deficit. We are dismantling the social infrastructure that brought us a measure of equality. We are destroying the tenuous unity the United Nations gave us.

We're throwing away everything we were so that we can have one glorious, rapturous moment. For that one moment, we will have traded everything for a fleeting state: shock and awe.

MICHAEL DE NOLA
New York, March 21, 2003

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/22/opinion/....html?tntemail1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/22/opinion/L22IRAQ.html?tntemail1)

[Pete]

Ok. I had something. Where did it go. Come back to me thought! Come back!! *Jumps around looking for it*

I heard yesterday, from someof my reliable friends that are also 'sources' for information, that when America took the two ports they put up American flags, and took down the Iraqi one until the PR guy starting yelling at them about how it is supposed to be 'Liberation' not 'Occupation' and the soldiers only hesitantly took the flags down.

[Kapitan Andrey]

...my hope and revolutionary mood got back to me!!! Yes!!! I feel POWER!!!

Not everething is loosed yet!!!

yankee's forces had meet a hard restance from Iraq forces!!!
I heard that two bombers were destroyed!!!

GO ON yankee!!! DIE, AS MUCH AS YOU CAN!!!

(Edited by Kapitan Andrey at 4:03 am on Mar. 23, 2003)

[Revolution Hero]

Coallition losses up to this moment:
2 planes destroyed;
2 helicopters --------;
17 tanks ---------;
40 soldiers captured and more killed.


Basra is still under the control of Iraq's resistance forces.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

So does anyone know how many Iraqi lives have been lost?

[Pete]

Americans say 3 civilians, Iraqis say atleast 300 civilians. America is not letting the Red Cross into Iraq to confirm any numbers. That makes me want to lean to the Iraqi number more then the American one.

[Valkyrie]

"Does anyone know exactly what happens to an enemy town once it is seized by the US? CNN keeps saying how cities have been seized, but what exactly happens??


Victorcommie, I don't know this for sure.. but I would think that when a city is seized, the US military would strongly fortify all points of entry into that area .... and probably also set up guards around any oil fields and government buildings. That's just my guess though.

[Larissa]

Dunno what's going on with the seized cities and its people, really. no one talks about it.

This is curious:
Allies Search for Crew of British Jet Shot Down by U.S. Missile
By JANE PERLEZ

OHA, Qatar, March 23 — A British Tornado aircraft was downed by a United States Patriot missile in a friendly fire accident close to the Kuwaiti border today, the commander of British forces in the Persian Gulf, Air Marshal Brian Burridge said.

Air Marshal Burridge said the aircraft, which was returning from a mission over Iraq, had been hit "obviously by mistake."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/23/internat....html?tntemail1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/23/international/worldspecial/24CND-TORN.html?tntemail1)

[Larissa]

War news update from a friend...

The Americans decided to go around Nasiriyah in order to speed up their advance towards Baghdad, and left whole units of combat-ready Iraqi troops behind them. Now, according to CNN,
«U.S. Marines encountered heavy resistance and have suffered casualties Sunday in fighting near the southeastern Iraqi city of Nasiriyah.»

And, last minute from BBC:
«1905: US Lt-Gen John Abizaid tells a news briefing at the US military Central Command in Qatar that a US supply convoy has been ambushed by Iraqi troops near Nasiriya, with several US soldiers injured and 12 reported missing.»

The capture of Umm-Qasr was again announced this morning, for the third time. Now, four hours later, they have found another «pocket of isolated resistance» in the city. If we are to believe their press-releases, they are already one hundred miles south of Baghdad and they haven't secured *one single stronghold* to ensure their own safety. They didn't think securing their backs was important. And they haven't yet faced any serious opposition from the Iraqi. Paid mercenaries as they are (in the sense of opposed to conscripts), I sincerely pity those kids if they ever come up against a Republican Guard unit. And all of these RG units are being kept for the fight over Baghdad (or anyone here sincerely believes that they have just vanished or deserted?).

Tho good thing about this is that, despite all their might and technological gadgets, the US military still depend on stupid commanders when in battle.

+++

On the other side of the world, after umpteen pictures of captured Iraqi soldiers (taken from many angles so we wouldn't notice at first glance that they were all of the same group), Bush is invoking the Geneva Convention to complain about captured American soldiers being shown on TV.

[Larissa]

Another news from Spain:

Spanish TV is saying just now that the US television networks will not show the images of American POW's we are seeing here now. Censorship at its best in order to keep the drums of war rolling while hiding the fact that real people are fighting a real war here, not the latest PlayStation release.

Mauricio

[Red Liberation]

US patriot missile shot down a RAF tornato gr1 warplane near Kuwait city, which is wierd because the iraqi airforce is nearly non existant and the missiles were bieng manually controlled!

the ITN newsreporter Terry Lloyd was killed when COALITION fire aimed and then subsequntly blew up the veichle they were travelling in! the ITV news even went as far as to sat that the iraqis took him to a hospital in Basra where he then died. This could not be the truth but it is exactly what the ITV news reported today.

[Zombie]

ITN newsreporter Terry Lloyd was killed
damn, poor fella..

[Kapitan Andrey]

Quote: from Larissa on 6:43 pm on Mar. 23, 2003
A British Tornado aircraft was downed by a United States Patriot missile in a friendly fire accident close to the Kuwaiti border today.


Ehh...I wanted to say that!!! ;)

I heard from our news that "Black Hawk" was destroyed near Bahdad!!! We could make a new film "Black Hawk Down" !!! ;)

I've seen moment in the news with yankee dead bodies!!!

SHIT!!! I WAS SO HAPPY TO SEE THAT!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[MJM]

Iraq is winning the propaganda war.

They claimed 3 dead and 200 injuried after two days of bombing. Very believable, I was expecting a lot more.

The US claims to have secured Umm Qasr, three times so far?
They claim the whole 51 batalion has surrendered, no wait on the general, hang on a minute 1-2000 troops surrendered?

I was expecting a lot of lies from Iraq, but so far what they've said has been very plausible.

I was expecting a lot of lies from the US.

The south is suppossed to be the most anti Saddam, yey they're fighting strongly to oppose the invasion. Sadly I think Saddam is winning more support in Iraq, and abroad, as a result of the US actions.

[Pete]

"The US claims to have secured Umm Qasr, three times so far? "

It is like how Kandahar fell 4 or 5 times, and Bush won the election 3 times was it? Well I must say this current administration has lied A LOT. Or have acted with out proper factual basing, making fools of them selves.

America is upset because Russia has sold Iraq such things as Anti-tank missiles, Night-vision googles, and radio jammers. All of which America uses, and can be seen as defensive materials. Of course CNN called them "Sensitive Military Equipment" but CBC says wha tthat means. Pathetic doublespeak.

[Red Liberation]

Im not pro saddam, but i hope iraq keep up these guerrilla tactics, if done effectivly we could see the us have to send more troops in to iraq and it would certainly prolong the war by months, the only problemm i see is the lack of sufficient air-defence - i thought iraq had some soviet made 'stinger' missile launchers.

[Larissa]

One of the best things Iraqis have done so far, is pretending they were surrendering and shooting the US-UK soldiers once they approached them.

:smile: sorry Kapitain Andrey!!

(Edited by Larissa at 2:49 pm on Mar. 24, 2003)

[Larissa]

AGGRESSION ON IRAQ
Devastating bombardments continue
• Invading troops encounter strong resistance in Basora, Nasiriya and other cities • Number of civilian casualties rises

BAGHDAD, March 24.— New and more devastating bombardments in southeastern Iraq were reported Sunday night through Monday morning on the fourth and fifth days of the U.S. and British aggression. Fierce battles between the invading forces and Iraqi troops were also reported in Basora, Nasiriya and other cities.

In an address to the nation at 11:00 a.m. this morning, transmitted by Iraqi TV and reproduced by international networks, President Saddam Hussein urged the nation and the troops to resist, and "to arrack evil in order to overcome evil.

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/mar03/lun24/iraq.html

[Larissa]

Just got this from a friend...

A fast war, ha!

- Intact Apache helicopter captured by Iraqis

- Basra and Umm Kasr still not taken

- American missile said to have killed 5 refugees

- British star reporter possibly killed by "friendly fire"

- Two Tomahawk cruise missiles come down in Turkey

Read more (in German): http://www.spiegel.de

Fuck Bush, Blair and Aznar!

Mike

[Larissa]

From another friend of mine...

"Victory to Iraq! - This is the only possible slogan in relation to this illegal and unilateral aggression.

The Iraqis must be free of foreign oppression to deal with their own national oppressors.

It's the same slogan as Victory to Hungary! Victory to
Czechoslovakia! Victory to Abbyssinia! Victory to Palestine! Victory to Poland! Victory to Vietnam!

The defeat of the aggressor, however overwhelming he might appear, is a necessary precondition for peace and prosperity for most of humanity.

The enemy is at home. The US and Britain can be defeated in their aggression by organized resistance at home. Strikes, road blocks, boycotts, occupations, teach-ins, demonstrations.

Anyone seeing the unprovoked brutality (unilateral and illegal) of the police goons in Madrid last night will be putting two and two together about the role of the police in our societies. Like just who they are defending.

Good for Michael Moore at the Oscars! By pointing out the lies (fiction) at the heart of the war he shows a way for Americans to defeat the war-mongers. Insist on truth and logic. Just say NO.

And his final words were prophetic.

"If you've got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, you're time is up..."

The US and the UK out of Iraq!

Western Oil Companies out of the Middle East!

Nationalize all fossil fuel resources without compensation!

Let the Iraqis deal with their own national oppressors -- democracy and civil rights for Iraq and all nations with oppressive regimes!

Choppa"

[Pete]

Body Count is nearing 200 with its minimum.

It seems the "Fedayeen" are acting like the officers in WWII CCCP. Preventing masses of troops from surrendering against technologically superior enemies.

These soldiers: "They have blind loyalty, they might even kill their fathers if they are ordered to do so,"

It seems we all know that the easy war is over, and the occupiers are not actually occuping much, as the two first cities (are Lara pointed out) that where claimed to have fallen are still in Iraqi hands. We man get another Vietnam, although I doubt it.

The Americans are still cocky: "They are a little nuisance that can make some trouble, but not hinder the advance of the troops,"
It will not last long. The closer to Baghdad, the worse it will be. And if I am to believe all I hear (through teachers and class discussion mostly) then the Americans are bypassing all major Iraqi forts, which will reak havack on supply lines and turn the Battle of Baghdad into a bitter war of attrition very fast. With the Americans coming out ragged and worn, like the Soviets in Afganistan's mountains...

[Larissa]

The last thing I heard is that there are sandstorms in Iraq now and that it's making it difficult for the US-UK troops to move towards Baghdad.

[Larissa]

A brief update from The Buenos Aires Herald (right-wing propaganda)

Stiff resistance met
Iraqi forces kill coalition fighters. A “huge” chemical weapons factory is reportedly found. The US vanguard is about a day’s advance from Baghdad. LATE NEWS: two US cruise missiles misfire and hit Turkey, but land in an uninhabited area.
BAGHDAD — US warplanes again pummelled Baghdad early today (Monday) with some of the biggest explosions yet after a day in which Iraqi forces loyal to President Saddam Hussein inflicted casualties and took their first US prisoners and US invasion forces drove deeper toward the capital. Despite setbacks and the heaviest resistance since the war began, British Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon indicated that coalition forces may reach Baghdad as early as tomorrow. US forces surging across Iraq’s deserts and rivers yesterday reached positions within 150 km of the capital.

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/

[Larissa]

http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/...3/3/3-22-26.htm (http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-22-26.htm)
Photos of killed and wounded people.
GRAPHIC (pete)

(Edited by CrazyPete at 9:17 pm on Mar. 24, 2003)

[RedCeltic]

Larissa: I just wanted to say... that I have no proboblem with people posting a LINK to graphic photos such as you did. However... I think people should be warned at least that the photos are not just of "Dead people" but of Graphic Nature

Just so...you know... when people just ate and click on that the don't destroy their keyboard... :)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

What would cause one's head to so cleanly crack as in the ones from Larissa's photos?

[Larissa]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 10:55 pm on Mar. 24, 2003
Larissa: I just wanted to say... that I have no proboblem with people posting a LINK to graphic photos such as you did. However... I think people should be warned at least that the photos are not just of "Dead people" but of Graphic Nature

Just so...you know... when people just ate and click on that the don't destroy their keyboard... :)
Ok, no problem. Sorry about that.

[Pete]

ty for the updates Lara. Yes. Scary Pics!

[Larissa]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 11:16 pm on Mar. 24, 2003
ty for the updates Lara. Yes. Scary Pics!
Thanks!!

[Tasha]

BBC reports ground forces fighting in the outskirts of baghdad.

[Pete]

Toronto Star reports that "American supply lines in danger" because they have yet to capture a fortress.

[Larissa]

An update from a friend...

"VOA, hardly a propaganda arm of the Iraqi army, reported yesterday that because of the war, residents of the city of Basra have been living without water and electricity since Friday. Yesterday, the BBC reported 77 civilian dead in that city. VOA also reported that the International Committee of the Red Cross has complained that the United States has failed to provide any information on prisoners it has taken, in violation of the Geneva Convention. VOA is silent on the matter of Iraqi civilian casualties, but it has quoted Kofi Annan as saying, "I have also indicated that in any situation on the occupation, it is the occupying power that has the
responsibility for the welfare of the people."

Paul"

[Larissa]

A picture of what clean modern warfare is about.

Please DO NOT open this link if you are easily shocked.

http://www.oshea.dk/smartbomb.htm

[Larissa]

Steve Bell's latest cartoon in the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebe...,921490,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,921490,00.html)

Satirical humour.

[Kapitan Andrey]

Larissa...
>One of the best things Iraqis have done so far, is pretending they were surrendering and shooting the US-UK soldiers once they approached them.

sorry Kapitan Andrey!!<

Why are you said "sorry"? I didn't understood!


Ha-ha!!! I'm happy, that our war-firms has helped Iraq with those ammunition!!!
I heard that Ukrain soliders sent to Kuwait to protect them from chemical and biological weapons!!! R-r-r!!! Damn traitors, fuckin' yankee lovers!!!

Larissa...DAMN!!! Your previous link war really OWFUL!!!

[Tasha]

The coalition have put basra under siege, people there are unable to receive water, food, medicine etc... Expect to see more civilian casualties

(Edited by Tasha at 5:20 am on Mar. 26, 2003)

[MJM]

Broadcast all over NZ media:

Huge chemical weapons plant found!

hang on, maybe not.

[Revolution Hero]

Coallition forces have not yet captured any of Iraq's cities, but they do enjoy controlling the desert.
The news about US and British troops being close to Baghdad are just part of blatant lie military propaganda.

[Dirty Jersey]

thats probably true. the media seems kinda one sided here. i wish i could get a hold of that iraqi tv station but we bombed the fuckin thing. garbage.

[Pete]

The headlines are all onesided, adn the first 5-10 paragraphs. But the info in the middle is pure (or as pure as it can get) and by the end it is waving the American flag.

Can you believe that the americans believe "We would be there for you?" Hahahahahahah!! I read that headline thismorning, quoted from the US Ambasdor (speaking to corporate heads and the such). Man. Canadians have helped America enough with no thanks, rescued civilians from the Iran hostage crisis for one thing, and we just let it go under. But they claim they would be there for us? Ya right! They will be here when we cut them off of their natural resources with a tank pointing at parliment.

[Larissa]

An article from the New York Times:

Loss of Apache Is Evidence of Vulnerability of Copters to Ground Fire
By CHRISTOPHER MARQUIS and NICHOLAS WADE


he loss of an Apache helicopter and the damage sustained by others yesterday near Karbala, Iraq, underscores the vulnerability of helicopters to ground fire. But it is too early to judge whether the Apache itself is at fault, experts say.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/25/internat....html?tntemail1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/25/international/worldspecial/25WEAP.html?tntemail1)

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Quote: from Dirty Jersey on 11:51 am on Mar. 26, 2003
thats probably true. the media seems kinda one sided here. i wish i could get a hold of that iraqi tv station but we bombed the fuckin thing. garbage.


In that case you are a stupid fuck. That channel is 100 times worse than our news stations in terms of propaganda and censorship. It doesn't just fabricate the truth...it simply doesn't show things.

And it's all in another language. But thats besides the point.

[Larissa]

Quote: from Kapitan Andrey on 9:27 pm on Mar. 25, 2003
Larissa...
>One of the best things Iraqis have done so far, is pretending they were surrendering and shooting the US-UK soldiers once they approached them.

sorry Kapitan Andrey!!<

Why are you said "sorry"? I didn't understood!


Ha-ha!!! I'm happy, that our war-firms has helped Iraq with those ammunition!!!
I heard that Ukrain soliders sent to Kuwait to protect them from chemical and biological weapons!!! R-r-r!!! Damn traitors, fuckin' yankee lovers!!!

Larissa...DAMN!!! Your previous link war really OWFUL!!!
I said sorry coz I posted some news you wanted to post first! :wink:

[Lefty]

Apparently the U.S. has shut down the flow of rations to about 16 million starving Iraqis and shut down the water and power grids. Great.

[Larissa]

There is an interesting article in the New York Times about the Urban Wafare:

Urban Warfare: The Underdog's First Battlefield Choice
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/26/internat....html?tntemail1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/26/international/worldspecial/26CND-URBAN.html?tntemail1)

*************************************

Also, (too sad) I heard that a supermaket has been bombed and about 15 civilians died. The "coallition" blames the Iraqis for bombing their own buildings, but I'm sure this another dirty and low propaganda from the US-UK biased managed media.

[Pete]

Interesting for the world.

CBC is reporting Caucus's retaliation to the American Ambasador's ignorant statement.

Canadians has supported Americans in need in many international incidents, including smuggling out Americans during the Iran hostage crisis, and taking in 40 000 Americans after Sept. 11 2001. Cellucci has actively spoken out against Canadian domestic and forgein policy regardless.

After his comments yesterday Commons considered expelling the American Ambasador. Considering that we still have allowed the Iraqi diplomats in Canada this would be a strong move telling America to back down on there illegal war.

Any other protests abroad of this amount?

Source (http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/26/libscellucci030326)

[Revolution Hero]

Why do you think coallition forces have hard time in Iraq? Isn't it because Iraqis love Saddam and his regime? Of course, it is...
Iraq's Minister of Defence:" We will meet allies in Baghdad just like we did in all other our cities: singing and dancing." Good sarcasm!
White House thought that Iraqis would treat US and British troops with respect, as they liberate their country from tyrant dictator, but Iraq's people know who true oppressor is.

US have already lost informational war, I conclude it from what I read and hear over my place. Iraq took the first victory. Let's hope Iraq will take the final victory on the battle fields.

Long live Iraq's struggle against imperialist aggression!

[Larissa]

First of all, Thanks Pete for the CBC link!

Second...

Defending CNN from an accusation of biased coverage of the war, Chris Cramer sent an open letter to the Arab press in which he says, among other things, that CNN has tried to cover all angles, including "anti-American"
demonstrations.

Notice he did not say "anti-war".
:-)

[Larissa]

Got his from a friend...

"Tomahawk missiles have gotten cheaper: $500,000 a pop. But most of the thousands of missiles that have been fired at Iraq cost between $100,000 and $1 million. That's a lot of money. President Bush has asked Congress for $75 billion to pay for this war. Here's something my dad sent me last night. He forgot to quote the source and I can't reach him now (apart from the fact that he is very ill and I don't want to bother him about such things):

--
A particular point of concern for the US command is the huge overuse of precision-guided munitions and cruise missiles. Already the supply of heavy cruise missiles like the "Tomahawk" has been reduced by a third and, at the current rate of use, in three weeks the US will be left only with the untouchable strategic supply of these missiles. A similar situation exists with other types of precision-guided munitions. "The rate of their use is
incompatible with the obtained results. We are literally dropping gold into the mud!" said Gen. Richard Mayers during a meeting in Pentagon yesterday morning. [reverse translation from Russian]

The US experts already call this war a "crisis". "It was enough for the enemy to show a little resistance and some creative thinking as our technological superiority begun to quickly lose all its meaning. Our expenses are not justified by the obtained results. The enemy is using an order of magnitude cheaper weapons to reach the same goals for which we spend billions on technological whims of the defense industry!" said Gen. Stanley McCrystal during the same Pentagon meeting. [reverse translation from Russian]

Paul"

[Kapitan Andrey]

"We came to free Iraqi people from Saddam..."

Ha! If all of this will continue, there will be no one to free from Saddam!!!

Slovenia isn't yankee's ally!!!

People, do you know yankee's casualties after Iraqi counter attak by tanks!?

[Broker]

Tanks we can hit from twice the distance they can see us at?

[Kapitan Andrey]

WTF!? This is not "OI", so Broker FUCK OFF!!!

[Revolution Hero]

According to Iraq's official information usa and britain had lost not less than 200 soldiers.
u.s. generals claim that they lost only 48 men.
Whom do you actually believe? The second figure is just ridiculous...

[Larissa]

Forwarded from a friend...

SOUTHERN IRAQ (Reuters) - They don't think much of the view, they miss their families and they worry about getting killed.

A week after invading Iraq, some U.S. troops are wondering what happened to their hopes of a three-day race to Baghdad, waved on by the white flags of
surrendering enemy soldiers.

"I feel like the longer I'm out here, the less are my chances of staying alive," said U.S. Marine Lance-Corporal Michael Sanchez, staring with sullen
eyes at a vista of withered roadside shrubs.

"Right here the odds are against us, we don't know the terrain, we don't know the people, we don't know what they got coming for us," he said, his 21-year-old face a picture of resentment.

Like his comrades, Sanchez had expected a kind of "Baghdad run," surging unopposed to the capital in the wake of a massive bombing campaign that would have cracked Iraqi resolve.

Instead, members of his convoy have been shot at by snipers, snarled up in a sandstorm, and stuck for days in a patch of wilderness populated chiefly by irritating gnats.[...]

(U.S. Troops Wonder Why They Aren't in Baghdad Yet / Fri March 28, 2003 07:17 AM ET / By Matthew Green
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;j...toryID=2465561) (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=I1ACALQHGCNBICRBAEKSF FA?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2465561))

Although they are there, as I won't tire to repeat, because they enlisted on their own free will, one can't help feeling sorry for those kids. But, as they say in the Brazilian state of Sergipe, no punishment is harsh enough for those who believe in the monkeys.

The monkeys being anyone in authority.

Tomás

[YerbaMateJ]

"Don't know the terrain..."

"Don't know the people..."

"Don't know what they got coming for us..."

Got 7 letters for ya:

V - I - E - T - N - A - M

[Larissa]

Quote: from YerbaMateJ on 2:56 pm on Mar. 28, 2003
"Don't know the terrain..."

"Don't know the people..."

"Don't know what they got coming for us..."

Got 7 letters for ya:

V - I - E - T - N - A - M

Good one my comrade friend!

[Larissa]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EC27Ak05.html

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

You think America hasn't learnt from Vietnam?

You lot are so naive. I know they don't seem to have the most intelligent government ever, but they're not fuckin stupid. They know what went wrong in Vietnam and will have learnt lessons from it.

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from Socialsmo o Muerte on 7:37 pm on Mar. 28, 2003
You think America hasn't learnt from Vietnam?

You lot are so naive. I know they don't seem to have the most intelligent government ever, but they're not fuckin stupid. They know what went wrong in Vietnam and will have learnt lessons from it.

We'll see.

[Pete]

American is calling Syria on selling weapons to Iraq. Rumsfield emphasized that nightvision googles where being imported to Iraq from Syria. America calls on Syria to halt its 'Trafficking' (which is an allusion to drug trafficking, show the level of illegality America is placing on this act).

About this, I question America. Night-vision googles. Really. You would think they would emphasize the worst weapon moving in, but so far both Russia and Syria have been labelled as supplying Nightvision googles. Here you can buy those at Zellers, a common retail store. I do not see what the big fuss is. Other than America does not believe any state has the right to defend itself, which violates the Doctrine of Sovriegnty, the corner stone of International Law. I just don't understand...

Syria has been warned that continuing these shipments will be considered a hostile act. Is America begining to leap to another 'enemy' in the region? This would secure Israel's border, and America would definitly be allowed to use Israel as a staging ground.

In all of the Iran-trained and backed militas inside Iraq have been declared the responisbility of Iran. Any action of these forces will be considered a move from Tehran. These are not the movements to promote peace in this region. Creating two more enemies while the war is going badly is not a smart move. America may have learned in Vietnam, but it had not learned what Germany did in WWI and WWII.

The final point I wish to make is that the CBC is reporting that Lt. General William Wallace (like in braveheart) states that the war isn't going as planned. We all know that, but a general is now admitting it publicly. He says this as coalition forces prepare to siege Baghdad. Humanitarian indeed.

Source (http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/28/iraq_syria030328)

[Pete]

Additional Sources Supporting My Last Post:

War not going to plan: U.S. general (http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/28/wallace030328)

'Bunker busters' rock Baghdad (http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/28/bombing_030328)

Siege of capital possible: Rumsfeld (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035780018226&call_pageid=1045739058633&col=1045739057805)

U.S. general in hot water over comments (http://thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035780061832&call_pageid=1045739058633&col=1045739057805)

In addition, for all who care about Jean Chretien's defiance to American pressure, he has cancelled his trip to Washington.

A predition that if Bush does not push Israel for peace that it will be "five years before every single regime in the Arab world falls to Islamic revolution"

Source (http://thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035780018213&call_pageid=1045739058633&col=1045739057805)

[YerbaMateJ]

CP---Your description of the u$ with regard to their complaining about other nations trafficking goggles, etc. is similar to a description of a paranoid schizophrenic.

Indeed a very accurate description.

YMj:biggrin:

[Revolution Hero]

5,000 Jordanians are going to fight for Iraq as volunteers.

[Wolfie]

Those 'excecuted' british soldiers you heard British PM Blair talk about at camp David were not infact 'excecuted' but killed in action confirms the British MoD.
Another failed 'coalition' propoganda coup then.

[Wolfie]

US and British troops are not letting any food in to Basra saying "the veichles may be used against them" or that "the crews could join the guerrillas"!
I think this is just a nother way to overun the city, by starving the soldiers out.

[Broker]

Who do you think would get the food? Question answered.

[Wolfie]

Well with the amount of trucks, about 18, i think many civillains would get some, you take a very sterotypical view of iraqi soliders. Do you belive everything you hear on the media?

[Kapitan Andrey]

Wolfie...don't waste your time to speak with this bUshist-bRoKeR!!!

Another "Apache" destroyed!!!

!!! V-I-E-T-N-A-M !!!

Oh, I just love that word!!!

[ID2002]

...the US will fail. It is just a matter of time. The balance of world power is shifting.

North Korea is waiting for the US to make a dumb move.

[Anarcho]

Foolish children. This is one of the prime Rules of Combat... no plan goes according to plan.

Coalition forces were counting on having clear supply lines and pacified cities in the rear. This has turned out to be false, and so are changing the plans... hence the shift in focus from Baghdad to Basra and other southern cities. I would do the same in their situation.

If the Iraqi command weren't using plain clothes militias (in violation of the Geneva Convention) in the form of Ba'ath party militia and the Feddayn, it wouldn't be such a problem. However, until all of the Ba'ath party people are disarmed (most of them have weapons, issued by the gov't), not only are the people going to continue not being able to freely express themselves, but the cities will be a source of trouble.

Coalition forces are still advancing. They are slowed, but that's not that big a deal. The Coalition still dominates the air.... and no military force has won without having air superiority since WWII. Anytime the Iraqi forces stand and fight against equal force numbers of Coalition troops, they loose. Iraq only has a limited number of tanks, vehicles and equipment.... while the US at least, for all practical purposes, has an unlimited potential.

The Ba'ath party, and Saddam Hussein, are going to be removed from power... the Iraqi military can't hope to stand against the combined military power of the US and the UK. To think otherwise is unrealistic, and childish.

It is my hope that it will be accomplished with a minimum of casualties to the Iraqi civilian population (so far, despite what you may think, this has been the case) and to Coalition forces.

Note- the HMS Sir Galahad had been trying to get docked for 3 days, but mines were keeping it from getting ashore and delivering the aid that is going to start flowing into the country. I don't recall the Iraqi's bringing food and water for the Kuwaiti's when they invaded.......

[Larissa]

I've just heard that some Iraqis where in taxi and called some US-UK soldiers, when these soldiers approached them, the cab exploted (it was a suicidal squad) and about 5 coallition soldiers were killed.

[Pete]

It is true. Suicide bombings have began :(

CBC Source (http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/29/suicide030329)

Salon Source (http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/03/29/suicide_bomb/index.html)

Toronto Star Source (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035780130461&call_pageid=1045739058633&col=1045739057805)

[Larissa]

I believe that this will not only be another Vietnam, but also something like another Stalingrad battle. A door-by-door warfare.

[Larissa]

Anyone else see the anger of people in south-eastern Turkey against the Americans driving by to pick up bits of their misguided missile? Whether they were Turks or Kurds, they hurled eggs and stones at the US vehicles from very close range and with great vehemence, despite the militiamen standing round. No love lost there, and Turkey is a close ally of the US and a member of NATO. Now what would happen if they tried to drive into Iran to pick up the bits of misguided missiles *there*, I wonder?

[Larissa]

A French NGO official remarked on EuroNews that it's not a good idea for aid organizations to let themselves be used as an adjunct to war... His British and US colleagues show little sign yet of waking up to this.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Quote: from ID2002 on 5:58 am on Mar. 29, 2003
...the US will fail. It is just a matter of time. The balance of world power is shifting.

North Korea is waiting for the US to make a dumb move.


Dude,

GET A GRIP!

[Broker]

This will not turn into Vietnam. Vietnam was not being fought to be won.

We are only a week in with about 50 dead. And we control around 40% of the country. Iraqi Republican Guard units are being gutted due to airstrikes.

[Wolfie]

US condemns iran and syria for letting people whating to join the iraqi forces for crossing over too iraq today!

[Pete]

Broker, America has been avoiding Iraqi forces, that is why they have so few casualities. I would kindly ask that you post in the OI forum, since it appears that you are not a leftist. Correct me if I am wrong please.

"and no military force has won without having air superiority since WWII"

This reminds me of what I heard a few years ago. "America has not been directly attacked since WWII"

[Anarcho]

CrazyPete- what has that got to do with anything? I'm just making an observation of Military fact.. Air Power is the determining factor in a modern military campaign. It will probably remain so for a while, until something new comes up.

[Pete]

Anachro: The English told the Scots that no army had one with out heavy calvary in so many years, and then the Scots one. Times may chnage, and air dominance may be rendered useless when fighting street battles.

[Kapitan Andrey]

I've seen that, Larissa!!! That was cool!!!

WTF!?

Stupid Kurds! WTF are they doing!? Them must defend themselfs from tUrkey!!! They will suffer, they'll be occupied!!!

[Larissa]

An updated - WAr - (second week)

www.etaiwannews.com/World/2003/03/31/1049093802.htm

This article includes a photograph of a wounded four-year-old girl.

According to the Economist, despite a few "wobbles," "the American public
seems remarkably sanguine. The polls show that the public accepts that the
war will be longer and bloodier than expected, and they support it anyway."
And "The domestic problem for Mr Bush may not be waning support for war, but
public insistence on the sort of all-out victory that might alienate world
opinion." The Economist article implies that such an all-out victory will
require a great many people to be killed: "Americans seem to be sticking to
their victory-at-all costs tradition." BBC journalists report Iraqi figures
of more than 500 civilian dead and more than 2000 injured so far. No one is
interested in counting the thousands of soldiers bombed to shreds from the
safety of American bombers and fighter planes. By Saturday, 59 Americans and
Britons had been killed by the Iraqis, by "friendly fire," and in accidents
in this just, legal, and necessary war.

Week two.

[Larissa]

Another war report.

«AMMAN - There are two options for Washington to win this war: the Gaza option or the Grozny option.

The suicide bombing near Najaf is proof that the "Palestinization" of Iraq is in full swing. The repeated calls for jihad from Islamic scholars in al-Azhar in Cairo, the Grand Mufti of Syria and a powerful imam in Najaf show that the jihad in Mesopotamia is also in full swing. In mass protests from Rabat in Morocco to Peshawar in Pakistan, from Kolkata in India to Jakarta in Indonesia, the Arab - and Muslim - street continues to demonstrate its opposition to the events unfolding in Iraq.

[...]

But a bloodless takeover is now out of the question because of the guerilla warfare adopted by the Fedayeen (all of whom come from Saddam's clan, the Abu Ghaffar), the emergence of suicide commandos and the general Iraqi army and security services' strategy of camouflage among civilians. Obvious targets have been vacated. Troops have moved into apartment blocks, schools, social clubs, private houses.

Already one year ago in Baghdad, Tarik Aziz was warning of "a thousand Vietnams". Whatever the spin from the Pentagon and Central Command in Qatar, whatever the option to be chosen - Gaza or Grozny - the quick, decisive victory initially sketched in Washington is not going to happen, and the eruption of a Middle East volcano could yet cover Pax Americana in ash. »

Pepe Escobar, in "The Gaza or Grozny choice"

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ED01Ak05.html

[Larissa]

DOHA, Qatar (CNN) - The Iraqi Republican Guard's Medina Division -- which
includes some of Iraq's most elite forces -- may have been cut in half by
repeated bombing, the Pentagon says.

At this stage the Pentagon couldn't tell a Medina Division from a division
by zero, let alone cut it in half.

After all the evidences to the contrary, they still want us to believe they
know what they are doing, and that the Iraqi elite troops are just sitting
there waiting for their bombs.

[Tasha]

7 Iraqi children and women were killed for not stopping on order from troops. You have to question do they understand and is taking an rpg to a civilian vehicle your first option? Could they not have blown the tires at the very least.

[ChiTown Lady]

This blew my mind today.

I haven’t been watching the War Coverage on TV lately, simply because I didn’t want to be sickened by the censored way that our media has been covering this whole thing, just based on what I have been seeing in the US press vs. foreign media sources such as even the BBC – but today I decided to make an exception.

And are they laying it on thick!?!. And some of what they are saying is atrocious to say the least.

I flipped between three different channels for a few minutes: CNN, CNBC and FOX – and ALL are reporting that this war is a great success so far and there is no other time in the history of any war where the troops have covered so much ground into enemy territory with so few casualties and in so little time…. Bla bla bla. This seems to be the party line at the moment and is being broadcast here on every single network.

That's all well and good, but take into account that the Iraqi's were forced to "effectively" disarm prior to this invasion. Why is covering this ground such a tremendous thing to have been accomplished under those circumstances? They have no ground defense against the air attacks being waged. This is hardly an even sided war.

What’s more, some political analyst on FOX named Dick Morris was siting poles that had been taken where those poled were asked "If it were necessary to bomb civilians in order to get the Iraqi Republican Guard Military forces – Would you agree with this measure?" And he stated that since EVERYONE here knows that the Iraqi military is using civilian shields, they would have no problem with killing massive amounts of civilians in order to prevent the loss of more US military lives. He sited the populous of the United States as 68% in favor of this measure, based on this pole.

The newspaper coverage today was highly publicizing the fact that the US military cannot tell friend from foe in that many Iraqi military forces are disguising themselves as civilians and therefor EVERY Iraqi is suspect under those conditions. There was absolutely no mention of the "friendly fire" attack that the US fighter pilot made on the British ground forces whatsoever. The BBC reported today that the Britsh ground forces are more affraid of the Americans at this point than they are of the Iraqis - yet our media overlooked this news entirely.

Plus according to many European independent news sources, the allied casualty rate is much higher than what we are being told. Much of what is really going on there is purposely being kept from the American public.

The censorship in our US media is over the top – it’s no wonder nobody here will believe anything to the contrary coming from foreign news sources.

This was just my observation today – here. So I thought I would share that with you, for whatever it’s worth.

Of course I take the time to at least read the BBC, guardian, and a few other English Language sources – so I am at least getting something more than those here who ONLY read and listen to the canned US propaganda.

It is truly amazing what the people here are being pumped with over the US news networks, and also amazingly enough most believe and go along with whatever is suggested in our media hook, line and sinker. After the coverage I saw tonight, I’m sure that hardly anyone here would care one iota whether civilians in Iraq were to be massacred en-mass or not. This is what I see based on the newscasts being propagated tonight.

That pole taken where the 68% of the public here supposedly agrees with bombing civilians en-mass blew my mind - specifically. I wonder WHO they poled. I don't remember any of the polsters asking ME that question.

I knew we were being censored here - but DAMN!!!! This shit is over the top.

[Revolution Hero]

According to Iraq's military authority, US have lost 700 soldiers and about 100 tanks.

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from ChiTown Lady on 8:25 am on April 1, 2003
This blew my mind today.

I haven’t been watching the War Coverage on TV lately, simply because I didn’t want to be sickened by the censored way that our media has been covering this whole thing, just based on what I have been seeing in the US press vs. foreign media sources such as even the BBC – but today I decided to make an exception.

And are they laying it on thick!?!. And some of what they are saying is atrocious to say the least.

I flipped between three different channels for a few minutes: CNN, CNBC and FOX – and ALL are reporting that this war is a great success so far and there is no other time in the history of any war where the troops have covered so much ground into enemy territory with so few casualties and in so little time…. Bla bla bla. This seems to be the party line at the moment and is being broadcast here on every single network.

That's all well and good, but take into account that the Iraqi's were forced to "effectively" disarm prior to this invasion. Why is covering this ground such a tremendous thing to have been accomplished under those circumstances? They have no ground defense against the air attacks being waged. This is hardly an even sided war.

What’s more, some political analyst on FOX named Dick Morris was siting poles that had been taken where those poled were asked "If it were necessary to bomb civilians in order to get the Iraqi Republican Guard Military forces – Would you agree with this measure?" And he stated that since EVERYONE here knows that the Iraqi military is using civilian shields, they would have no problem with killing massive amounts of civilians in order to prevent the loss of more US military lives. He sited the populous of the United States as 68% in favor of this measure, based on this pole.

The newspaper coverage today was highly publicizing the fact that the US military cannot tell friend from foe in that many Iraqi military forces are disguising themselves as civilians and therefor EVERY Iraqi is suspect under those conditions. There was absolutely no mention of the "friendly fire" attack that the US fighter pilot made on the British ground forces whatsoever. The BBC reported today that the Britsh ground forces are more affraid of the Americans at this point than they are of the Iraqis - yet our media overlooked this news entirely.

Plus according to many European independent news sources, the allied casualty rate is much higher than what we are being told. Much of what is really going on there is purposely being kept from the American public.

The censorship in our US media is over the top – it’s no wonder nobody here will believe anything to the contrary coming from foreign news sources.

This was just my observation today – here. So I thought I would share that with you, for whatever it’s worth.

Of course I take the time to at least read the BBC, guardian, and a few other English Language sources – so I am at least getting something more than those here who ONLY read and listen to the canned US propaganda.

It is truly amazing what the people here are being pumped with over the US news networks, and also amazingly enough most believe and go along with whatever is suggested in our media hook, line and sinker. After the coverage I saw tonight, I’m sure that hardly anyone here would care one iota whether civilians in Iraq were to be massacred en-mass or not. This is what I see based on the newscasts being propagated tonight.

That pole taken where the 68% of the public here supposedly agrees with bombing civilians en-mass blew my mind - specifically. I wonder WHO they poled. I don't remember any of the polsters asking ME that question.

I knew we were being censored here - but DAMN!!!! This shit is over the top.



They polled the same group they polled before the u.$. bombed Hiroshima. It's a bunch of grim reapers that sit at this round table in this dark room plotting the next human atrocity.

Always gotta consider the source...

YMj

[Pete]

Do these two paragraphs make anyone else feel woozy and like something is seriously amis?

""Kurdish militias are under the command and control of U.S. forces (and) they will not move anywhere without U.S. coalition leadership," Khalilzad said after talks at the Foreign Ministry.

""All parties are obliged ... to discourage people from moving in or doing an uprising in Kirkuk, and then sending forces in there.""

Source (http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/03/31/kirkuk/index.html)

[LeonardoDaVinci]

Quote: from Tasha on 3:31 am on April 1, 2003
7 Iraqi children and women were killed for not stopping on order from troops. You have to question do they understand and is taking an rpg to a civilian vehicle your first option? Could they not have blown the tires at the very least.


Even though they claimed to have fired warning shots, one witness (an officer apparently) did state that the warning shots were fired too late to give them any time to respond.

This is also been commented on by British Marines in Umm Qasr in which marines were told by apprehensive cilvians who approached them that departing US troops were more trigger happy and fired indiscriminately at both soldiers and civilians. As a result, it has been claimed today that British troops in allied controlled towns have started wearing berets rather than bullet proof helmets as a sign of faith and to demonstrate that they are a helping rather than an occupying force.

[Larissa]

Among the people in the van (7 iraqis died) were also europeans and americans who had volunteered as human shields.

[Larissa]

According to the Independent newspaper, U.S. bombs and missiles have already struck the Mosul Museum, the Tikrit Museum, a museum in Al-Zohur Palace, and Mustansiriya University (founded in 1234). They have not (yet) struck the Baghdad City Museum, which contains some 100,000 artifacts from 7,000 B.C. to A.D. 1000.

[Larissa]

The US military expenditures alone are 4.7 times bigger than the whole of Iraq's GDP. The US spends 213 times more money on guns than Iraq.

Wasn't Mao right!?

[Larissa]

Got this e-mailed by a friend, I just gotta love him :-)

The overnight news is very encouraging.

Mubarak is scared shitless, warning the US that they are producing a
thousand new and dangerous enemies by their actions in Iraq. And he
is a US poodle and arse-licker.

US troops are getting bogged down in the Bogside, so to speak (that's
a working-class, Nationalist, Catholic area of Derry in Ulster, so
mutatis mutandis folks) -- house by house, village by village. One US
officer said basically "They were looking at us from that farm, they
gotta be military..."

Obviously the women and kids in the van that got neutralized didn't
understand plain simple English -- "Stop that fucking van or we'll
fucking shoot you!"

Peter Arnett gets the front page of the Mirror "Fired by NBC for
telling the truth! Now working for the Mirror".

Apparently the coalition of the noble and good has been arresting,
interrogating, threatening and beating western journalists.

The people of Basra are still drinking sewage courtesy of Bush and
Blair, while the humanitarian effort is still being hampered by lack
of Iraqi cooperation. The Chinese would call this water tactic to win
the hearts and minds: Drain a lake, offer a thimble.

French TV last night said the Bush strategy was producing a
sorcerer's apprentice effect -- Frawg snahbs.

Un, dos, cien Vietnam!

Pity Che's not around to see what's happening. You can kill the man,
but not his ideas. Voi ucidete l'uomo, ma non la sua idea...

If I was leading the US invasion I would be afraid, very afraid, of
having Syria and Iran with intact and highly capable strike forces
hovering over my tenuous and ill-defended supply lines, their fingers
twitching over the button...

Gotta run.

[Pete]

Pity Che's not around to see what's happening. You can kill the man, but not his ideas.

Funny I have been listening to a RATM/Tool song where the chorus is You can kill the revolutionary/but you cant kill the revolution

[Larissa]

Amnesty International is trying to stop the coallition from using depleted uranium as it is considered (by the highest officials of the US army) a powerful weapon of mass destruction.

Our local Media (Channel 13 - member of the Clarin Group - one of the largest media holdings in Latin America) has been broadcasting live straight from Baghdad. The cameras where inside the hospitals and showed everything, incluidng an Iraqui physician begging his US & UK colleagues to do something to stop their gov's from bombing and massacring the people of Iraq.

[Larissa]

The summer winds will bless Iraq.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Quote: from Larissa on 2:23 am on April 2, 2003
Got this e-mailed by a friend, I just gotta love him :-)

The overnight news is very encouraging.

Mubarak is scared shitless, warning the US that they are producing a
thousand new and dangerous enemies by their actions in Iraq. And he
is a US poodle and arse-licker.

US troops are getting bogged down in the Bogside, so to speak (that's
a working-class, Nationalist, Catholic area of Derry in Ulster, so
mutatis mutandis folks) -- house by house, village by village. One US
officer said basically "They were looking at us from that farm, they
gotta be military..."

Obviously the women and kids in the van that got neutralized didn't
understand plain simple English -- "Stop that fucking van or we'll
fucking shoot you!"

Peter Arnett gets the front page of the Mirror "Fired by NBC for
telling the truth! Now working for the Mirror".

Apparently the coalition of the noble and good has been arresting,
interrogating, threatening and beating western journalists.

The people of Basra are still drinking sewage courtesy of Bush and
Blair, while the humanitarian effort is still being hampered by lack
of Iraqi cooperation. The Chinese would call this water tactic to win
the hearts and minds: Drain a lake, offer a thimble.

French TV last night said the Bush strategy was producing a
sorcerer's apprentice effect -- Frawg snahbs.

Un, dos, cien Vietnam!

Pity Che's not around to see what's happening. You can kill the man,
but not his ideas. Voi ucidete l'uomo, ma non la sua idea...

If I was leading the US invasion I would be afraid, very afraid, of
having Syria and Iran with intact and highly capable strike forces
hovering over my tenuous and ill-defended supply lines, their fingers
twitching over the button...

Gotta run.


Americans would acuse this information of being either false or caused by Saddam to increase goodwill and soil the name of America because they think that our freedom is a threat to their lack of freedom.

Appalling really, what some Americans will say. They don't stop blurting out all this false information that has no logic or evidence to back it up, then go on to say how it's Bush's business to put an end to the oppression. They don't know it, but they are the ones being oppressed and brainwashed into thinking that America is the best thing. Middle class in America has it pretty good, but never do they move up into the upper class, they are made to think they can, but they can't. Even if they could, they wouldn't want to because they think that their mediocre, middles-class, and opprrssive life is the best thing in all of the world and their already at the top. Then they go on to acuse people "under the oppression" of communism to be unmotivated to improve themselves. I'm fucking outraged!

[Tasha]

How would everyones opinion change if saddam used nuclear (being fictional here) or chemical weapons on troops in Iraq?

In my opinion there is no terroist tactics when an army invades your country. Whatever you do to get them off your homeland is valid. If saddam were to drop a nuke on coalition troops I probably would show no remorse (the decision not the lives lost). I know that our country would do the same to stop an overwhelming invader from occupying our country. When an army invades your country you have every right to defend its every inch in any way possible.

(Edited by Tasha at 6:43 am on April 2, 2003)

[Kapitan Andrey]

R-r-r-r!!! FUCKING yankee!!! They are killing innocents!!! THIS MUST BE A TOTAL WAR FOR IRAQ!!!FOR LIVE OF NATION!!!