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Revolution67
28th February 2006, 11:03
This article has been written by a left leaning Indian Economist, Dr. Bharat Jhunjhunwala. The original article can be found here:

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/04oct04/edit.htm#5

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In his younger days Karl Marx wrote in Towards the Critique Hegel’s Phi-losophy of Law, "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, as it is the spirit of spiritless conditions. It is the opium of the people." This last statement has been literally observed by the communists, Indian included, by them opposing all spiritual and religious activities. But this opposition is wrongly conceived. Marxism is a highly spiritual philosophy. Marx opposed that insensitive religion which gave sanction to the suppression of humanness. He was not opposed to spiritualism.


Marx’s thinking becomes clear in his Excerpt-Notes of 1844. "Why must private property end up in money?" he asks; and replies, "Because men making exchanges do not relate to each other as men, things lose the significance of being human…" In pre-capitalist societies man had direct relationship with his production and the user of his produce. Market, money and capitalism has broken this direct relationship and converted production into an impersonal machine. We have a direct and positive relationship with the radish grown in the kitchen garden but not with one bought from the market. A mother affirms her direct and loving relation with her daughter in stitching a frock for her. Such love is absent from the frock stitched for the market. Marx found that there was no place for such human relationships in capitalism. Relationships between human beings were determined by money rather than love for each other. Thus Marx writes in Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts: The market "alienates his spiritual nature, his human essence, from his own body…" Note the explicit use of the word ‘spiritual nature’ of man.


While buying and selling in the market the capitalist connected with the money rather than with the customer. The milkman is not connected with the user of the milk. He is not concerned that the adulterated milk supplied by him is harmful for the child. The capitalist system legitimizes such inhuman exchange between human beings and is, therefore, despicable. Marx writes in Manuscripts: "The worker does not affirm himself but denies himself, feels miserable and unhappy, develops no free physical and mental energy but mortifies his flesh and ruins his mind. (The alien character of work done for money) is obvious from the fact that as soon as no physical or other pressure exists, labour is avoided like the plague."


Marx opposed that religion which sanctified such inhuman relationships. In Towards a Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Law he writes, "Religion is the generalized theory of this world, its moral sanction and justification." Marx called religion opium of the people because it sanctified anti-spiritual society. Marx wanted to establish a loving spiritual society and found that religion, as it existed, was an obstruction. Marx opposed inhuman religion, not spiritualism.


Next, Marx analyzed that only the oppressed in the present system would be interested in transforming this inhuman state of affairs. These were the workers who had "nothing to lose but their chains". He called upon the workers to rise and take the reins of the society in their own hands as a first step toward the establishment of a human and spiritual society. It was necessary to establish a Dictatorship of the Proletariat for some time to prevent the resurgence of the ruling classes who would be dispossessed in the process. The final objective, however, continued to be the emancipation or spiritualization or reestablishment of the loving nature of both the capitalist and the working classes.


Marx’s formula can be summed up as follows: Religion gives sanction to capitalism. Capitalism rests on money, markets and private property. In order to overthrow private property and the market, therefore, it is necessary to overthrow religion. Thus, religion is the opium of the people.


We have seen, however, that even more inhuman societies were established in Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea and other communist countries. The roots of this degeneration lie in Marx’s thinking even though his heart was in the right place. The inhumanness of the market results not from money or private property but from the negation of one’s inner self. An artist enjoys making a painting even though he is painting for the market. A scientist enjoys doing research even though he is working for wages.


A bonded labour may be producing for the Zamindar with whom he has a direct connection but he may be unhappy. It can be seen that many people are entirely happy producing for the market while others are entirely unhappy. The roots of alienation and inhumanness lie not in the market but in the negation of the inner self. When a work is in tune with one’s inner self then a person is happy irrespective of whether he is working for money or has a direct relationship with the user. Marx correctly analyzed that the existing capitalist system was inhuman and anti-spiritual. But he wrongly determined the roots of this alienation in the market while it actually lay in the negation of the inner self. The communist leaders ignored the spiritual basis of Marxism and adopted his politics of Dictatorship of the Proletariat. The result was that communist governments routinely suppressed the inner self of their people and created an even more inhuman society than the capitalism that they replaced.


Many religious gurus are present amongst us today who oppose the inhumanness of the market system. They are Marxist in essence. But the communist parties oppose them in the name of religion. This is contra Marxism.


Alas! Such degeneration is found in all thoughts. Hindus forcibly made sati out of widows. Thieves and dacoits worship the Devi and receive blessings from the pujari. Christians launched crusades in the name of religion and Muslims are becoming terrorists. The degeneration that we see in the communist is, therefore, equally to be seen in various other thoughts of the day.


It is commonplace for both sides to compare their own ‘pure’ theory with the degenerate practice of the other. The religious people deride the communist for the atrocities committed by their Dictatorship of the Proletariat. The communists deride the godmen for befooling the people by promising them heaven in the afterlife. This will not do. Both communism and religion have degenerated and have to be cleansed. The comparison, if at all, should be made between the pure theories of the two sides or between their practices. It is time for both to understand that the theory of religion as well as communism is entirely spiritual and human. Both sides must cleanse the degeneration in their own practice rather than attacking the other.

jaycee
28th February 2006, 11:41
people forget this about marx, communism is nothig if it isn't a society which truly satisfies humanitys needs. People are spiritual in a way which doesn't needto be connected to domatic religions and while i do not believe in god i see peoples spieitual side as being part of nature and the material world.

Atlas Swallowed
28th February 2006, 12:13
I do not see anything wrong with spirituality and religion as long as it is not organized and just personal. Not set of beliefs should be forced upon anyone including atheism. Some call spirituality irrational, maybe but being irrational is part of being human.

redstar2000
1st March 2006, 23:54
This is obviously another opportunistic attempt to "appropriate" Marx in order to cover up another spiritualist racket!

It might fool some "newbies" but it won't fool anyone at all familiar with Marx's approach to things.

This particular hustler is perfectly content with markets, wage-slavery, etc., and says so. He wants to make "Marx" into a guru.

That's bullshit!

And there is no such thing as "spirituality".

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bezdomni
2nd March 2006, 01:42
Originally posted by Atlas [email protected] 28 2006, 12:41 PM
...being irrational is part of being human.
It's also part of being wrong.

...which is also part of being human.

Revolution67
2nd March 2006, 06:50
Thanks to everyone for expressing his/her views on the subject. Comrade Redstar needs to re-read the whole write up to understand it in its totality. Since, the writer is from India, the term 'Spirituality' does not mean in the same sense as it is understood in the western frame of mind. Maybe, in the west spirituality is an inherent part of the organised religion. In, eastern thought (Indian and Chinese), spirituality is something of self realisation, self introspection, which does not rely on the concept of god or the omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being. In Eastern thought, philosophy and spirituality have evolved completely independent of religion and religion may have absorbed of its ideas. In India, the equavalent term is "Adyatama", moving of consciousness from individuality to totality. In Englis language, there is no exact translation of such term and hence, the word spirituality is used, as it is the closest in meaning, but does not define it in full.

The writer never says anything about the markets, or of the wage slaves. He instead says that if a person likes doing something, he will do it no matter how and in what way he is being awarded. He/she just enjoys doing the work he/she likes. His/her inner self finds enjoyment in doing such a thing and that realisation within oneself cannot be negated and should not be negated at all. It is only we if realise the true inner voice, after indulging in self intropsection, that alone will see solution to many problems a person faces in his/her life.

Iepilei
2nd March 2006, 08:52
Religious groups I have no problems with.

Religious groups who make it a point to proselytize are the ones I have problems with.

redstar2000
2nd March 2006, 12:26
Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 04:20 AM
Religious groups I have no problems with.

Religious groups who make it a point to proselytize are the ones I have problems with.
Are there any that don't "proselytize"?

Even more important, are there any that don't seek to have their "morality" enacted into law?

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Xiao Banfa
6th March 2006, 09:13
Redstar2000 you've got a complex about religion.

The fact that you are under the impression that all religions proselytise reveals you're complete ignorance on this subject.

Religion gives self respect and dignity to millions of people.

If you can't understand it which you obviously can't, don't discuss it

Comrade-Z
6th March 2006, 13:11
Religion gives self respect and dignity to millions of people.

Yes, complete self-abasement before a supernatural authority is always really uplifting and empowering! :o :lol:

Dyst
6th March 2006, 15:04
What the...?

This thread is not about religion. It is about spirituality.

It is not the same thing.

Some would even claim spirituality and religion does not mix.

Sentinel
6th March 2006, 15:18
Religion gives self respect and dignity to millions of people.

It does the opposite, it says human beings are worthless until they suck up to the religion in question and dedicate their lives to it, instead on focusing on earthly, "sinful" matters. Like trying to create an equal society on earth.

Perhaps you mean that religious people feel superior to nonbelievers. That certainly seems to be the case. To the degree, actually, that they most often end up trying to convert them or kill them if that's not possible.

The minds of the irrational are a dangerous indeed. :(
That's why religion must be fought actively.

RedStarOverChina
6th March 2006, 15:23
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 10:32 AM
What the...?

This thread is not about religion. It is about spirituality.

It is not the same thing.

Some would even claim spirituality and religion does not mix.
I agree. The "Holy Banner of Spirituality" should not be tainted.

:)

Forward Union
6th March 2006, 15:30
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 03:51 PM
I agree. The "Holy Banner of Spirituality" should not be tainted.

:)
Just burnt

violencia.Proletariat
6th March 2006, 16:00
Spritiual as defined by the little oxford dictionary


of spirit; religious, divine, inspired

In other words, a load of bullshit. :lol: While not all people who meditate are spiritual, the ones who do it to be enlightened are INSANE. :lol:


The fact that you are under the impression that all religions proselytise reveals you're complete ignorance on this subject.

Where are the ones that dont?


Religion gives self respect and dignity to millions of people.

Tell that to the people in Nigeria who were recently laid to waste by your fucking religions. :angry:

RedStarOverChina
6th March 2006, 16:02
Originally posted by Additives Free+Mar 6 2006, 10:58 AM--> (Additives Free @ Mar 6 2006, 10:58 AM)
[email protected] 6 2006, 03:51 PM
I agree. The "Holy Banner of Spirituality" should not be tainted.

:)
Just burnt [/b]
Good thinking.

Dyst
6th March 2006, 18:06
Originally posted by Additives Free+Mar 6 2006, 09:58 PM--> (Additives Free @ Mar 6 2006, 09:58 PM)
[email protected] 6 2006, 03:51 PM
I agree. The "Holy Banner of Spirituality" should not be tainted.

:)
Just burnt [/b]
And why?

I can't think of anything negative to say about spirituality, other then that it doesn't aid my political point of view.

ÑóẊîöʼn
6th March 2006, 19:30
Apart from spirituality being a complete waste of fucking time?

Dyst
6th March 2006, 21:30
Yeah.

(That was what I meant with "it doesn't aid my political point of view".)

But neither does listening to music or playing video games.

Xiao Banfa
6th March 2006, 22:34
It does the opposite, it says human beings are worthless until they suck up to the religion in question and dedicate their lives to it, instead on focusing on earthly, "sinful" matters. Like trying to create an equal society on earth.


Statements like these prove that you are reacting to some superficial understanding of religion.

Let people practice their religions and believe in spirituality.

Your understanding of religion and spirituality doesn't go beyond a vague idea based on reacting to the exoteric dogma.

This attitude bars you from any real understanding.

If you're not interested don't offend people who are and who value religion and spirituality.

You will only push billions of the worlds population away from the idea of socialism and communism.

Sentinel
7th March 2006, 04:29
Statements like these prove that you are reacting to some superficial understanding of religion.

How is that then? All religions I'm familiar with either preach humility, servility and obedience to authority, promising rewards in "afterlife", or ascetism and turning away from the world in order to become "pure". No great revolutionary virtues exactly! :lol:


Let people practice their religions and believe in spirituality.

The problem being that that practice affects my life every day. And the lifes of their children, the innocent victims of their irrationality. :angry:

Communism is a rational, materialist approach to the world, the opposite of the religious one. As long as the majority of people are religious, communism is beoyond our reach. :(

Being religious is so a reactionary position and as a communist I'm opposed to it.


Your understanding of religion and spirituality doesn't go beyond a vague idea based on reacting to the exoteric dogma.

On the contrary, it's based both on experiences of real life discrimination, originating in religious and post-religious values in society, and researching the subject very indepth.

The more serious and educated I've become on communism, the more obvious the reactionary character of religion has become to me.


If you're not interested don't offend people who are and who value religion and spirituality.

I am interested. Not in becoming superstitious, though, but in completely wiping superstition from the face of the earth.

The human species must be liberated from it's mental chains, in order to be free and rationally engage in building a better world. We deserve it!

We must believe in ourselves, not in anything else. Communism is about progress, moving away from medieval traditions and beliefs.


You will only push billions of the worlds population away from the idea of socialism and communism

No, I'm saving communism from the influences of sexism, homophobia, and especially the irrational insanity religion would add to it. It simply would not be communism anymore.

And, even though the convinced religious propably have little hope, the doubtful ones and agnostics can and will still get out of that shit when they see it challenged. It happens every day. :)

redstar2000
7th March 2006, 07:59
Originally posted by Tino Rangatiratanga
You will only push billions of the world's population away from the idea of socialism and communism.

We don't have to "push them away", they're not interested anyway.

What we most need to do is "push" the hundreds of millions who live in the "old" capitalist countries away from religion.

If we can manage that, then the road to communism opens up. :D

There's not much we can "do" for those "billions of people" who live in backward countries dominated by all kinds of barbaric superstitions.

We need to crush the barbaric superstitions that still plague the "west"...including the most recent import, Islam.


If you're not interested, don't offend people who are and who value religion and spirituality.

I am "interested"...in removing it from all human societies forever!

And I intend to be "offensive"...until any godsucker that comes to this board either gives up religion or goes someplace else.

I "win some" and I "lose some". :D

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