SLA

[WUOrevolt]

What is your opinion of the SLA (Symbionese Liberation Army)? Were they good or bad for the American Left in the 1970's?

Article on them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army)

[Scars]

Bad. They made the left look like a bunch of fucking loonies. The Weathermen were the best example of insurrectionist communists in the states in the'70s.

[Tekun]

Their goals, if you can call em goals, were idealistic
But the means by which they tried to bring about their goals was illogical
Kidnap Patti Hearst? :lol:
Rob banks, extortion?

Not to mention that at their peak, they had at most 10 members
Most of whom were naive and had lil knowledge of what they were fighting for

[Everyday Anarchy]

I'm a bit proud of them. They actually did something, unlike most of us leftists who'd rather talk about "the" Revolution rather than make it happen.

Although, they seemed a bit too dogmatic and demanding. Certainly didn't know how to please the working class :-\

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 10:32 PM
I'm a bit proud of them. They actually did something, unlike most of us leftists who'd rather talk about "the" Revolution rather than make it happen.
As none of their actions panned out into anything meaningful, I fail to see how they were "making it happen."

[encephalon]

Politically, I find that they leave a bitter aftertaste in my mouth. They seemed more like a bunch of kids doing things just to do them rather than having a cohesive plan.

On the other hand, this picture of patty hearst is prett hilarious :lol:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d2/Hearst-hibernia-yell.jpg

[bolshevik butcher]

I think both this group and the weathermen failed to see that in order to have any kind of revolution you need a mass working class movment.

[Anarchist Freedom]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 28 2006, 01:36 PM
I think both this group and the weathermen failed to see that in order to have any kind of revolution you need a mass working class movment.
I agree whole heartedlty. I have a question what significant things has the SLA done in the United states because honestly I cant think of one other then the the whole kidnapping then being brainwashed ordeal.

[TC]

Obviously they were less effective/important then the Weather Underground and their politics were much less developed and their strategy much less sophisticated, but...that doesn't mean that they were childish or harmful to the left either.

Could they have selected better targets? Obviously. Could they have been a little less silly and a little more media savvy? Of course.

But the bottom line is that they risked everything and were willing to be killed or captured because they were fed up with doing nothing meaningful and they wanted to put themselves into the struggle completely the same way that the kids fighting the Americans in Vietnam and Latin America were doing. Instead of excusing themselves from any responsibility to stop American imperialism and genocide abroad and American racism and oppression at home with the standard leftist excuses that its not time yet and people have to be educated and they need to build the party or increase conciousness or whatever stuff people are feeding themselves, they looked at what sort of action they could take then, in that moment. And i think thats something that should be admired.

[Punk Rocker]

They actually did something, unlike most of us leftists who'd rather talk about "the" Revolution rather than make it happen.

Fuck yeah! That's what I'm trying to say all the time dude. If you want to talk about the revolution you have to take action too.

[YKTMX]

Stupid, middle class wankers. Just like the Weather Underground.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 03:03 PM
Stupid, middle class wankers. Just like the Weather Underground.
werd! :lol:

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by Punk [email protected] 1 2006, 05:14 AM

They actually did something, unlike most of us leftists who'd rather talk about "the" Revolution rather than make it happen.

Fuck yeah! That's what I'm trying to say all the time dude. If you want to talk about the revolution you have to take action too.
Well I dunno about you but I actually do quite a lot of political activity.

[Scars]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 03:03 PM
Stupid, middle class wankers. Just like the Weather Underground.
Around 90% of people on this board are of middle class origin, most likely you included. Poeple in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Scars+Mar 1 2006, 10:06 PM--> (Scars @ Mar 1 2006, 10:06 PM)
[email protected] 1 2006, 03:03 PM
Stupid, middle class wankers. Just like the Weather Underground.
Around 90% of people on this board are of middle class origin, most likely you included. Poeple in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. [/b]
Fuck off, you don't know anything about me.

[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 12:32 AM
Fuck off, you don't know anything about me.
We can all apparently see that you own a computer and a sturdy Internet connection. I'd certainly say that you're either middle class or bourgeoisie :ph34r:


Meh, but does it really matter? Who cares if they were middle class? They were still on our side! I'm petty-bourgeois, but that doesn't make me the enemy.

[Punk Rocker]

Well I dunno about you but I actually do quite a lot of political activity.

That's cool, I never said you didn't dude. I'm talking about people who ***** about revolution but don't do anything revolutionary.

[Scars]

YouKnowTheyMurderedX:

I'm going to say that that is code for 'Why yes Scars! I am middle class!'


Xero:

I agree completely, your class background is not particularly important. What is important is that you can overcome the traditional values and attitudes of your original class and instead adopt communist values and attitudes. Pretty much every major Communist and Anarchist theorist and/or leader has been middle class. So using 'middle class' as some sort of 'insult' is plain stupid when it has been proven that your class origin does not matter- your actions, however, do.

I stand by my remark about glass houses and silly people with stones.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 12:42 AM
We can all apparently see that you own a computer and a sturdy Internet connection. I'd certainly say that you're either middle class or bourgeoisie :ph34r:
You do realise that probably the majority of the working class in the West are in a position to own a computer and an internet connection?


Around 90% of people on this board are of middle class origin, most likely you included.

How exactly do you define "middle class"? I think you'll find either your definition is wrong or your statistics.

Referring to groups like the SLA or Weather Underground is not a condemnation of anyone who's from the middle class but an attack on the petit-bourgeois, liberal methods of struggle of individual terrorism of these organisations rather than taking an orientation to the working class itself and class struggle.

Could I ask the defenders of individual terrorism and its organisations, what their attitude to Leninism is? I quite often see defenders and supporters of these undemocratic, unaccountable, sect organisations with no class base trying to attack Leninism as elitist and find it quite funny.

[YKTMX]

I'm going to say that that is code for 'Why yes Scars! I am middle class!'


Well, then you're an idiot as well.

It's interesting to see the amount of projection going on here. The two, young middle class "communists" are slightly embarassed at their own class background. So they try to make themselves feel better by pretending everyone else must be middle class. Since they've made silly presumptions about me, I'll make two presumptions about them:

1) Not only are they very middle class, they've never met a normal working class person, and wouldn't know what to say if they did

2) They're keyboard warriors. They have little knowledge of Marxism and are not involved, in any way, shape of form in the working class movement.

One describes himself as an 'activist of the mind', the other as a 'Marxist-Rousseauist'.

In short, they're both middle class wankers.

[Hiero]

These type of groups did nothing really, contray to some people above who claimed they actually did something.

[bolshevik butcher]

I'm with you know they murdered x, yeh the unprecedented event of a socialist appealer and an swper on the same side comes to light, most of these people evidently are form a wealthier background, I'm not going to condem them for that, but I will condem them telling me that I am also and that I am poltiically inactive. That is the problem with much of the posters on this board; lack of political activity.

[Scars]

<<1) Not only are they very middle class, they&#39;ve never met a normal working class person, and wouldn&#39;t know what to say if they did>>

Am I middle class? Yes, I am completely middle class. However I have had much contact with the working class, particularly the rural working class because the only reason my parents are middle class (as opposed to working class like the rest of their family&#39;s) is because they were intelligent and did well at school, thus got scholarships thus could afford to go to university.

My mother was a civil servant (working at a the city council) and my father was a lecturer at the local university. Both are not particularly well paid professions, so much of my life would be deemed &#39;lower middle class&#39;, however now both work for the university- mother as a senior lecturer and father as a proffessor, so we&#39;re not &#39;middle middle class&#39;.

My maternal Grandfather left school at 14 and was sent to be a apprentice mechanic at a bus station in Scotland. When he was 18 he was conscripted and sent to occupy Germany, where he spent the next 6 years. He was a socialist and a big supporter of Casto. My maternal grandmother was teh daughter of a peasant and went to London and later Scotland in order to find work. She worked as a typist.

My paternal grandfather was the son of an Irish peasant and left school at 16 and was sent to be a carpenters apprentice, then was conscripted into the New Zealand army and sent to the pacific. When he returned he worked as an self employed builder in a small town in New Zealand. He died before I was born. My paternal grandmother finished school and worked at the railway station ticket office. My step-grandfather is a Dutch peasant who lived near the German-Neatherlands boarder. He was conscripted into the Dutch army and sent to fight in Indonesia, when he returned he signed up with a labour exchange scheme and was sent to New Zealand where he worked on a farm and then at the works as a skinner.

Isn&#39;t my class history exciting?

In my experience the New Zealand urban working class is most interested in sports and the rural working class sports and the weather. Younger ones also like to talk about women, particularly tits. Women gossip.

<<2) They&#39;re keyboard warriors. They have little knowledge of Marxism and are not involved, in any way, shape of form in the working class movement.>>

I am a member of the IWW and when I turn 18 (in about 2 months) I&#39;ll be joining the Workers Party which I have been involved in for about...2 years or so. I would have joined when I first came into contact with them when I was about 15 (when they were called the Anti-Capitalist Alliance), however you have to be 18 in order to join. It also must be understood that I live in a small town, so there isn&#39;t a whole lot going on politically.

As for my knowledge of Marxism, I understand it, I don&#39;t agree with all of it, but I understand it well enough. I&#39;ve probably read more Mao than anything. I also have an understanding of Anarcho-syndicalism, Anarcho-Communism and Insurrectionary Anarchism. In addition I have an interest in 19th and 18th century socialism, particularly Proudhon, Blanqui and of course Rousseau.

Have a nice day.

[YKTMX]

Well done for mounting a good defence, good on you.

As I suspected, you&#39;re very middle class, but that&#39;s not your fault, you can&#39;t pick your class background.

As it happens, my mother also lectures at a college, so we have something in common.

[DocBenway]

Originally posted by black banner black gun+Feb 28 2006, 05:26 AM--> (black banner black gun @ Feb 28 2006, 05:26 AM)
[email protected] 27 2006, 10:32 PM
As none of their actions panned out into anything meaningful, I fail to see how they were "making it happen."



[/b]
I tend to think that the numerous massive food giveaways to the poor they pulled off were "meaningful."

Especially considering the Hearst family fortune payed for it all.

[Fawkes]

ya, like docbenway said. They didnt aimlessly kidnap Patty Hearst. They gave a ransom for her, they made the Hearst family pay i believe it was 2 million dollars to food kitchens for the poor. It was then that Patty decided to "stay and fight" with the SLA. Although, the SLA&#39;s tactics were not very good. Although i wouldnt relate them to someone like Abbie Hoffman, someone who i used to admire, but have no discovered was a childish person just wanting to screw things up.