The End of Bourgeois "Democracy"

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by David Howarth
Who wants the Abolition of Parliament Bill?

LAST WEEK all eyes were on the House of Commons as it debated identity cards, smoking and terrorism. The media reported both what MPs said and how they voted. For one week at least, the Commons mattered.

All the more peculiar then that the previous Thursday, in an almost deserted chamber, the Government proposed an extraordinary Bill that will drastically reduce parliamentary discussion of future laws, a Bill some constitutional experts are already calling “the Abolition of Parliament Bill”.

A couple of journalists noticed, including Daniel Finkelstein of The Times, and a couple more pricked up their ears last week when I highlighted some biting academic criticism of the Bill on the letters page of this paper. But beyond those rarefied circles, that we are sleepwalking into a new and sinister world of ministerial power seems barely to have registered.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,6-2049791,00.html

It's a bill that essentially allows the government to rule by decree...very much like the "Enabling Act" of 1933 that allowed the Nazis to dispense entirely with the Reichstag.

Should it pass, one would imagine that we'd finally hear the end of so many of our U.K. members here promoting the "advantages" of lefties "running for parliament".

I think. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[ComradeOm]

British viewers may want to watch Dispatches on Monday, Channel 4. I've just seen the ad and it appears to be concerned about this very issue.

[piet11111]

The Bill replaces an existing law that allows ministers to relieve regulatory burdens. Business was enthusiastic about that principle and the Government seems to have convinced the business lobby that the latest Bill is just a new, improved version. What makes the new law different, however, is not only that it allows the Government to create extra regulation, including new crimes, but also that it allows ministers to change the structure of government itself. There might be business people so attached to the notion of efficiency and so ignorant or scornful of the principles of democracy that they find such a proposition attractive. Ordinary citizens should find it alarming.


The Bill, bizarrely, even applies to itself, so that ministers could propose orders to remove the limitations about two-year sentences and taxation. It also includes a few desultory questions (along the lines of “am I satisfied that I am doing the right thing?”) that ministers have to ask themselves before proceeding, all drafted subjectively so that court challenges will fail, no matter how preposterous the minister’s answer. Even these questions can be removed using the Bill’s own procedure. Indeed, at its most extreme, in a manoeuvre akin to a legislative Indian rope trick, ministers could use it to transfer all legislative power permanently to themselves.

all hail king blair the first *shudders*

well atleast it will only work in our favour but still damn

[Goatse]

HEIL BLAIR

SEIG HEIL

I read an article in the newspaper the other day titled "Is Britain the new Germany?" It spoke of Germany's authoritarian government, and how we are becoming the next one. However I suspect it was written by a white nationalist... near the end he said Germany had some craze for perfect racial equality, and said it was "understandable" because of their history. I guess it is easy to see why they're trying to avoid racism, but the guy seemed to be talking about it as if it was bad. I can't really comment on the situation... although I agree that Blair appears to be trying to create the image of a perfect racially equal utopia while doing little to actually make it real.

ComradeOm: I saw that advert too... where you from in the UK?

[Commie Rat]

Odd, i really espected this to happen in america first.
ah well

ah well at lest the BNP has less say in what goes on now :D

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Maybe this will allow people to actually realize the democratic sham in the U.K and civil disobedience will ensue.

[drain.you]

This is quite disturbing. Hadn't heard of the bill before this thread.
Is there a white paper for it yet?
Think I'll definately tune in to watch Dispatches. what time is it on?

[piet11111]

i doubt anyone was supposed to know before it was active.

i am looking foward to things to come.
could this thread be sticky'ed so we can keep track of everything related to this ?

[Conghaileach]

Monday 27 February
20:00 Dispatches: Stealing Your Freedom

Political commentator Peter Hitchens looks at how the recent avalanche of security legislation has affected the civil liberties of ordinary people in Britain. He argues that the government's measures, designed to protect us from crime and terrorism, are in fact a menace to freedom and not a threat to criminals.

[FidelCastro]

So long as they free Northern Ireland and Scotland then I don't really care.

[loveme4whoiam]

in an almost deserted chamber, the Government proposed an extraordinary Bill that will drastically reduce parliamentary discussion of future laws, a Bill some constitutional experts are already calling “the Abolition of Parliament Bill”.
I wonder, did they chose to put forward this Bill in an almost empty chamber because Blair knew it would be so opposed, or was it that MPs deliberately stayed away? Hmm. But I'll definietlye watch that Dispatches.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by FidelCastro+Feb 25 2006, 09:41 PM--> (FidelCastro @ Feb 25 2006, 09:41 PM) So long as they free Northern Ireland and Scotland then I don't really care. [/b]

So you wish for Wales to stay under the English Jackboot?

Anti-Welsh Chauvinist! :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


redstar2000
Should it pass, one would imagine that we'd finally hear the end of so many of our U.K. members here promoting the "advantages" of lefties "running for parliament".

I doubt it.

[Goatse]

Originally posted by Armchair Socialism+Feb 25 2006, 10:02 PM--> (Armchair Socialism @ Feb 25 2006, 10:02 PM)
[email protected] 25 2006, 09:41 PM
So long as they free Northern Ireland and Scotland then I don't really care.

So you wish for Wales to stay under the English Jackboot?

Anti-Welsh Chauvinist! :lol: [/b]
What about poor England?

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by ScottishPinko+Feb 25 2006, 11:20 PM--> (ScottishPinko @ Feb 25 2006, 11:20 PM)
Originally posted by Armchair [email protected] 25 2006, 10:02 PM

[email protected] 25 2006, 09:41 PM
So long as they free Northern Ireland and Scotland then I don't really care.

So you wish for Wales to stay under the English Jackboot?

Anti-Welsh Chauvinist! :lol:
What about poor England? [/b]
What about Cornwall?! :lol:

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 09:35 PM
It's a bill that essentially allows the government to rule by decree...very much like the "Enabling Act" of 1933 that allowed the Nazis to dispense entirely with the Reichstag.

Should it pass, one would imagine that we'd finally hear the end of so many of our U.K. members here promoting the "advantages" of lefties "running for parliament".

I think. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
I remember when someone said, it may have been you, RS2k, that the bourgeoisie may formally do away with parliamentary democracy. Looks like it could happen now!

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by ScottishPinko+--> (ScottishPinko)What about poor England?[/b]

More specifically, poor London! :lol:

They actually would have a real incentive to become Independent, they get taxed a lot.


OglachMcGlinchey
What about Cornwall?!

Only yesterday, I attended a rally, eat a pasty and sung "Oh ar" and "I'm ur farmer man" in the name of Cornish Independence. :lol:

[Severian]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 25 2006, 06:42 AM
Odd, i really espected this to happen in america first.
Hey, at least on the left side of the Atlantic it'd take a constitutional amendment, not just a bill, to make these legal changes. (Similary, there was a bill in the British Parliament to roll back the right not to incriminate yourself.)

Many people think of the U.S. as comparatively backward, and in many ways it is. But there are advantages coming from a more thorough bourgeois revolution, also.

***

And on either side of the Atlantic, it'll take more than a piece of paper to abolish bourgeois democracy....because there's more than a piece of paper standing behind bourgeois democracy, there's the expectations of millions.

There'll be a fight, and nobody will fail to notice it. If they snuck through this bill, for example, there'd be a fight over its enforcement.

The British bourgeois press seems to have come out pretty solidly against this bill (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Legislative+and+Regulatory+Reform+Bill%22&btnG=Search+News)...in its present form anyway. Also the Tories.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by BBC
Political system faces 'meltdown'

Britain's political system is in danger of "meltdown" if major changes are not made, an independent report says.

The Power Inquiry, chaired by Baroness Helena Kennedy, says voters feel they have little influence over decisions affecting their lives.

The inquiry's Power to the People report calls for a shift in control from ministers to parliament, and from central to local government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk_politics/4753876.stm

Bourgeois "democracy" has had a long successful "run" as a "style" of class rule...but its time may indeed be running out in our own era.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[boosh logic]

In the Independant today there is a campaign running backing an aim by the government to change the governing system. Some of the aims are to lower the voting age to 16 and similar openings, but the most important is that they aim to make every vote in the country count, instead of doing it by regions. From the look of this it will reduce the labour/conservative stronghold on the government, giving smaller parties more power. Unfortunately this means power for both left and right wing parties, so will not make much difference to the left. The only party who looks to benefit in any length from this is the liberal democrats, but maybe this will at least weaken the strength of the conservative party.

[drain.you]

Watched Dispacthes, had nothing specific to this bill which is what I thought I was being directed to but was a scary program none-the-less, had alot of stories that seem to do a good impression of those coming from the US.

[RedAnarchist]

Whoops, just posted that article in the news articles forum (duh! :rolleyes:)

Could a mod/admin delete the article when it is posted please? Thanks.

[RedAnarchist]

Laws like this get passed without much protest from the public because they are too wrapped up in their reality television shows, their brands, their logos and their fast food! They have been lulled into being couch potatoes who care more about which washed-up so-called celebrity wins some shitty bottom-of-barrel-scraping reality television programme! It is about time that people in this country turned off their television sets, stopped being such celebrity-obsessed, vacous morons and started making sure that this so-called "Labour" government does not harm their civil liberties any further!

[loveme4whoiam]

Indeed, although if this gathers steam I can see mass demonstrations similar to those against the Iraq war. However, I don't know what kind of effect this'll have. Like you say, no-one cares anymore. However, this is such a big issue that it surely must penetrate the brain of even the most ignorant Big Brother-watcher that this is a bad thing, especially if the Abolition of Democracy thing is pushed hard enough.

It'll be interesting to see what reaction, if any, the public has to this once it's reported properly and gathers steam. We'll either see apathy on the part of the common person, in which case we're fucked, or a proper popular demonstration against it. Hedge your bets, people :(

[TC]

Many people think of the U.S. as comparatively backward, and in many ways it is. But there are advantages coming from a more thorough bourgeois revolution, also.

***

And on either side of the Atlantic, it'll take more than a piece of paper to abolish bourgeois democracy.

US presidents have been able to sign "executive orders" including secret executive orders for decades in what acts more or less the same way as a rule by decree...they also have all of the reserve powers vested in the monarchy and they have no effective supervision under the US congress and can exercise a great deal of restraints on congress and the courts...so its really no different if not worse.

[Severian]

Originally posted by TragicCl[email protected] 28 2006, 07:34 PM

Many people think of the U.S. as comparatively backward, and in many ways it is. But there are advantages coming from a more thorough bourgeois revolution, also.

***

And on either side of the Atlantic, it'll take more than a piece of paper to abolish bourgeois democracy.

US presidents have been able to sign "executive orders" including secret executive orders for decades in what acts more or less the same way as a rule by decree...they also have all of the reserve powers vested in the monarchy and they have no effective supervision under the US congress and can exercise a great deal of restraints on congress and the courts...so its really no different if not worse.
No, sorry. That is a dangerous increase in executive power...but it does not give presidents the power to amend legislation, or the other powers in this bill.

[TC]

Oh thats true i didn't realize that they could change existing legislation.