Music and its correlations to... [Archive]

drain.you

21st February 2006, 01:27

Hey,
I was discussing with my girlfriend earlier today about music and how certain types of people seem to listen to certain types of music. Obviously music is a form of expression and people who listen to certain music see it as epxressing their outlook on life and such but is their something deeper?

I don't want to say that this is definate but here are what I have observed.

-The more creative people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

-The more intelligent people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which support capitalism most

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which have the most positive outlook on life whereas rock and its subgenres are more critical of life.

-Both pop and rock are broad enough to spread between working class and middle class.

-Alot of rock music stems from working class backgrounds.

What do you guys think on this kind of thing? I don't mean to offend anyone and by all accounts I'm not saying that my words are fact, just what I have seen and assumed. Let me know. Cheers.

Ol' Dirty

21st February 2006, 01:39

Rock tends to deal with very raw things; love, life, pain, suffering, change, death, class, politics, money, etc. Popular music tends to be more shallow, and dealing with very limited things; money, sex, power, violence, hate, etc. Mostly the lower classes deal with raw things, and the wealthy deal with shallow things. Thusly, as always, the rich influnce the poor; this time, they do it through music. That also explains why popular music generates so much money; the wealthy are dealing it!

Good topic, my freind.

1984

21st February 2006, 02:06

Oh my...

I truly HATE when music is used as an background for class segregation. As an example, "intelectual" people would always despise those who cannot stand the Bossa-Nova or Jazz and use their "appurate taste" as an pillar for their elitist behaviour.

These same people would often call rock music fans as "mentally degraded" or something on that level, for its general lack of "complexity" - ignoring completely that progressive rock is ALSO falls in that category.

Shouldn't music be the universal language or mankind? Shouldn't it be free from regional/national and class barriers? Sure, as any form of art, it reflects the artist's moral mood and sometimes social condition or political point of view, but come on!

Other example is classical music - it may not be restricted to the burgueoise today as it was in the 18th or 19th century, but there's STILL much to be done in order to eliminate it's "status" as a "sophisticated people's thing" - it's only MUSIC, darn it!

:angry:

Ol' Dirty

21st February 2006, 02:17

You're being extreamly idealist; you should know that. You assume that we support classist cultural barriers, while we are just stating a tendancy of more socially enlightened people enjoy more enlightened music, and vice-versa.

Cult of Reason

21st February 2006, 02:58

While I used to listen to rock a lot, and I still like it (and I like classical a lot too. I think the Mozart's opera The Magic Flute is brilliant, especially the Birdcatcher's song), my playlist now is mostly versions of the Internationale, songs from 1930s Spain and miscaelaneous, including rock, classical and other odd stuff.

What does that make me? :P

1984

21st February 2006, 04:32

I'm only saying that one cannot be judged by the music he listens to... the music Haraldur listen to doesn't make him anything.

:P

Seong

25th February 2006, 11:42

I don't think anyone was trying to suggest that people can be judged by their musical tastes, but that the most socially aware people tend to avoid the saccharine by-products of the capitalist candy factory. :lol:

And he's got a point. If you are more socially aware are you likely to be satisfied with songs about someone's 'fine booty and pimped up ride?' Most of us here realise that there is much more to 'real' life than that.

drain.you

25th February 2006, 13:59

I think music effects social life alot but by no means is it the sole means of identifying someone.

Shouldn't music be the universal language or mankind? Shouldn't it be free from regional/national and class barriers? Sure, as any form of art, it reflects the artist's moral mood and sometimes social condition or political point of view, but come on!
Music should be a universal language lol. It should be free from regional and class barriers. But its not and may never be. People in the same situations group together and create the same kind of music. But generally speaking the average rapper is very different from the average classical composer and the average heavy metal dude is very different from the R&B gangster. And why? Social climate obviously effects the music we listen to (I believe we are all products of our society to a great extent)

redstar2000

25th February 2006, 15:10

In theory, we ought to be able to use historical materialism to derive the characteristics of preferred music according to class.

And I think that could actually be done by someone with a sufficient knowledge of both class and music.

But musicologists are rarely acquainted with historical materialism and most Marxists just "know what they like".

I would be extremely cautious in drawing any conclusions about someone's politics based on their tastes in music.

Even though it's often the case that certain genres of music "resonate" with certain political outlooks. Not every Nazi "loved marching music". :lol:

There is a temptation to assume that an expressed preference for the music that we ourselves prefer is a "sign of superior intelligence" or at least "superior musical taste".

I don't think we should yield to that temptation.

We learn "musical taste" the same way we learn our native language; much depends on what we listened to as children. It determines for us "what sounds right" and what "just sounds like noise".

I've also had the actual experience of listening to a musical genre that I didn't at all like at first...but over time beginning to appreciate its musical merits.

Sort of like learning "a second language".

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Ol' Dirty

25th February 2006, 17:56

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 05:00 AM
I'm only saying that one cannot be judged by the music he listens to... the music Haraldur listen to doesn't make him anything.

:P
I wasn't saying that liking a certain type of music makes you anything. We were simply pointing out the conections to music preferance and class.

which doctor

25th February 2006, 18:03

I must admit, I am an elitist when it comes to music.

encephalon

25th February 2006, 18:31

I'm surprised that nobody has really mentioned that the style and class influence of music is entirely dependent upon the historical circumstances that bears the particular form. It isn't just personal expression. It has a hell of a lot to do with the state of a given society as a whole.

And I hate to break it to everyone, but: rock is pop. It's one of the most popular styles of music ever to grace the planet, and the whole of popular culture has been influenced by it. It is, in fact, the very epitome of what's generally interpreted as american culture; and I would go as far as to say that it's not only reflective of bourgeoisie culture, but much of the time reinforces it.

anomaly

25th February 2006, 18:34

Actually, I've noticed an interesting phenomenon when it comes to music, specifically the currently popular 'punk' trends.

If you are a teenager, then you know that at any high school in America, there is this 'need' or 'want' to rebel. With this new 'punk' trend, we see teens 'rebelling' by listening to music. And we tend to view these kids as truly 'rebels'.

But, when you speak to one of these so-called punks (this is from my experience), it is a rather depressing chat for anyone who is a rebel against capitalism or the state. These 'punks' often not only support capitalism, they absolutely adore it. They are often suspicious of the state, but only want reforms. Some of the 'punks' are even religious. Some rebels, huh?

It is my conclusion that the 'punk' trend is nothing more than a capitalist fashion phenomenon.

However, this phenomenon is one that gets kids just to dress like a 'rebel', without actually rebelling against anything. I often think how useful this 'need' to 'rebel' could be in spreading Marxism or anarchism, but how wasteful it has turned out to be.

Have any others have noticed how disgustingly bourgeois 'punks' actually are? (note that I'm speaking in generalizations here).

encephalon

25th February 2006, 18:48

Have any others have noticed how disgustingly bourgeois 'punks' actually are? (note that I'm speaking in generalizations here).

Yeah, it's retained a (very minor) amount of the music and ditched the politics. I quite often see kids with redstars or anarchy signs adorning every inch of their body, yet when I ask them what either of them stand for they've no clue (especially concerning the red star). Eveen in semi-older folk, I see tats of red stars, and when I ask them about it they're equally clueless.

Punk is far from punk anymore. In fact, most of it has turned into the typical, corporate manufactured "emo" junk that I usually call "pretty punk."

I don't think, however, that the kids are entirely (if at all) at fault. I think they do sense that something is wrong with the system, and such empty commodity-based outlets for rebellion are what's most readily available. They just haven't had the imperative to really investigate, and being comfortable with such empty "movements" they don't even think to research further.

So I think it's partially our job to prompt them into further investigtation. Even if it's fruitless for the great majority, a select few will discover just how empty it is (and that goes for almost all music-exclusive rebellion).

anomaly

25th February 2006, 18:54

"I think they do sense that something is wrong with the system"

From the 'punks' I've talked to, I don't think this in the least. Their solution to all the problems of the world? Vote for the Democrats! :lol:

Of course, I cannot say anything about 'punks' you talk with. Besides my area and a few others, the city in which I live is extremely bourgeois, so perhaps proletarian 'punks' are far different than their bourgeois counterparts.

loveme4whoiam

25th February 2006, 21:08

I don't think you can derive a person's political ideology from their music tastes (not that Flux was putting that forward, at least I didn't think so), but I think you can derive their ideas of society and behaviour from it. This is, of course, massively stereotypical and generalised, but nonetheless a relationship between music tastes and behaviour exists.

For example, when was the last time you saw a guy all in black with spikes around his neck (ie, rock guy according to social stereotypes) punch a random passerby in the head? And when was the last time you saw a guy with a skinhead and wearing a Nike one-piece (ie, rap guy according to "everyone") do that? Exactly.

I don't want to start going on about violent media causing violent behaviour, because I think that's a load of shite. What I DO think is that violent media attracts those with violent tendancies. For example, I'm not a violent guy (at least, not without provocation or a good ten shots inside me), and I dislike music that preaches violence as a good thing, ie rap artists.

This is the relationship I'm talking about. It's not causal (one causing the other), but it is correlational, and can show what kind of ideals, especially with regards to society, people have. Again, this is completely generalised and stereotypical, so please don't take it as an attack on you if you are into that sort of music.

red team

27th February 2006, 00:19

I listen to techno. :)

Schleppy

27th February 2006, 08:20

I listen to Rush, and consider them to be one of my favorite bands. However, as evidenced by my membership in this forum, I take every word Geddy Lee sings with a large barrel of salt.

Black Dagger

27th February 2006, 14:58

This thread is really absurd!

-The more creative people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

Define 'creative', you realise that there is much more to music than 'rock' 'pop' and 'R&B' yeah? I'm not really sure how you came up with the idea that rock musicians are any more creative than anyone else, care to explain your reasoning?

And of course, don't forget that many people... listen to a wide variety of music, basically making any attempt to pigeon-hole musical genres redundant.

-The more intelligent people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

If by 'R&B' you mean, pop music, and by rock you mean pop music - the previous statement is accurate if confusing, then maybe :P

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which support capitalism most

:lol:

Your 'findings' seem somewhat biased towards rock music?

Is that possibly the genre that you prefer? :o

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which have the most positive outlook on life whereas rock and its subgenres are more critical of life.

Well 'pop' isn't a genre, 'pop' encompasses, rock and r&b, again you need to define terms because at the moment all of this is contradictory/non-sensical.

-Both pop and rock are broad enough to spread between working class and middle class.

What about R&B?

-Alot of rock music stems from working class backgrounds.

What R&B?

You should re-name this thread, 'Why i think Rock music is the best and everything else sucks!'

27th February 2006, 15:52

I'm going to have to admit that I find it surprising that people here are seemingly so against bourgeois society, yet they indulge in bourgeois culture to the point where it seems ridiculus to me. There are Fall Out Boy fans here, for "god's" sake. Yet when a form is presented that goes completely against the conventions of bourgeois society, people are completely unaccepting of it.

I believe it was John Stuart Mill that said something along the lines that when people deem their opinion to be right and others wrong they are deeming their opinion to be infallible and thus dissenting opinion is never even considered as a more correct truth than the one currently held. Of course, dissenting opinion is how society develops. I'm not sure where I'm going with this; I guess I'm just saying that people really need to be more open when it comes to many things - music in this instance.

Quills

27th February 2006, 16:11

Well, I wonder what genre of music drain.you prefers... :rolleyes:

This is just silly music snobbery. Typical NME bullshit, 'I listen to "real" music, therefore I am cleverer and better than you" .

This is just as pointless and absurd as saying, 'People who prefer the colour purple over green are obviously better people'. The only thing you can tell from a person's musical taste is which type music they are more likely to listen to.

Dyst

27th February 2006, 16:57

I am also an elitist when it comes to music, sad to say.

Maybe not so much that I hate people who listen to for example pop, actually I love some of them ;) but I truly despise the music genre.

I think the reason is that I play a couple of instruments my self and for example the fact that pop uses the same rythm signature 99% on all songs is not only strange but also extremely frustrating to me. I can't possibly see how people can get deeper "feelings" out of these songs than "I wanna get drunk" or something like that.

27th February 2006, 17:39

I think the reason is that I play a couple of instruments my self and for example the fact that pop uses the same rythm signature 99% on all songs is not only strange but also extremely frustrating to me. I can't possibly see how people can get deeper "feelings" out of these songs than "I wanna get drunk" or something like that.

Not to mention the same song structure, instruments, performance styles, performance set-ups, etc....

Ol' Dirty

27th February 2006, 23:58

This thread is really absurd!

If you want to see absurd, look at your arguments.

-The more creative people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

Define 'creative',

Fine:

Something having to do with making something original and individualized.

you realise that there is much more to music than 'rock' 'pop' and 'R&B' yeah? I'm not really sure how you came up with the idea that rock musicians are any more creative than anyone else, care to explain your reasoning?

I'd love to, as soon as you can past your own extremeist generalizations of what I said.

I'm sure that there are plenty of wonderfull, intelliegent people who listen to gangsta "rap", and other pathetic, mainstream media, but I haven't met many. I'm sure there are plenty of complete assholes who listen to jazz and reggae, but there aren't that many that I've met! Stop generalizing my views, man!

You're being a sensationalist, assuming conformist. Listen to what you want; it doesn't make you anything. But the tendancy is this: intelligent people mainly listen to more creative musings; the less to more simple things, like rap and popular genres.

And of course, don't forget that many people... listen to a wide variety of music, basically making any attempt to pigeon-hole musical genres redundant (?).

Re.dun.dant

Exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous.
Needlessly wordy or repetitive in expression: a student paper filled with redundant phrases.
:lol: You didn't know what that meant, did you? :lol:

-The more intelligent people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

If by 'R&B' you mean, pop music, and by rock you mean pop music - the previous statement is accurate if confusing, then maybe :P

Like your arguments?

Hypocrite.

GoaRedStar

28th February 2006, 00:44

[/QUOTE]What R&B?[QUOTE]

R&B is Rhythm and blues.
The first rock and roll song were actually R&B songs.

Here is the article from Wikipedia

Rhythm and blues (or R&B) was coined as a musical marketing term introduced in the United States in the late 1940s by Jerry Wexler at Billboard magazine, used to designate upbeat popular music performed by African American artists that combined jazz and blues. It replaced the term race music, which was deemed offensive, and was initially used to identify the style of music that later developed into rock and roll. By the 1970s, rhythm and blues was being used as a blanket term to describe soul and funk as well. Today, the acronym "R&B" is almost always used instead of "rhythm and blues", and defines the modern version of the soul and funk influenced African-American pop music that originated with the demise of disco in 1980.

Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_and_blues

FULL METAL JACKET

28th February 2006, 00:58

-The more creative people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

-The more intelligent people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

Isn't their mainstream rock? That's just as popular as pop and R&B.

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which support capitalism most

Modern day music is built on rock. If your saying capitalism like which makes more money, spends more money on tours and album production, it is without a doubt rock. But what about rap? All about money right there.

Body Count

28th February 2006, 02:38

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 01:55 AM
Hey,
I was discussing with my girlfriend earlier today about music and how certain types of people seem to listen to certain types of music. Obviously music is a form of expression and people who listen to certain music see it as epxressing their outlook on life and such but is their something deeper?

Sure theres something deeper.

Many people are unknowingly "placed" into a certain genre.

You're a thirteen year old girl, you're *supposed* to like pop music.

You're a 19 year old black male from Compton, you're *supposed* to like rap music.

You're an angsty, 16 year old communist, you're *supposed* to like Punk.

I don't want to say that this is definate but here are what I have observed.

-The more creative people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

Not sure how you are basing this.

WHO is "the more creative people in society"???

-The more intelligent people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

I thought these people listened to classical music or something.

I can't imagine Einstein enjoying Manic Street Preachers....:lol:

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which support capitalism most

Music that SELLS the most supports capitalism most. (And contrary to popular belief, COUNTRY is the highest selling music in America). I don't know what sells the best abroad.

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which have the most positive outlook on life whereas rock and its subgenres are more critical of life.

Angsty teenage rock and punk aren't any more progressive then pop and R&B love songs.

I don't think music supports our goal unless it blatantly does so.

Besides, I think we will be needing much positive music post-revolution, I certainly wouldn't want some group moaning about how bad life is after the destruction of capitalism.

-Both pop and rock are broad enough to spread between working class and middle class.

-Alot of rock music stems from working class backgrounds.

Mainly because the poorest people are stigmatized from listening to this stuff.

What do you guys think on this kind of thing? I don't mean to offend anyone and by all accounts I'm not saying that my words are fact, just what I have seen and assumed. Let me know. Cheers.

I think its a bullshit "high art", "low art" argument, one that you see mostly coming from white, middle and upper class, capitalist.

Body Count

28th February 2006, 02:41

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 01:12 AM
What R&B?

R&B is Rhythm and blues.
The first rock and roll song were actually R&B songs.

Here is the article from Wikipedia

Rhythm and blues (or R&B) was coined as a musical marketing term introduced in the United States in the late 1940s by Jerry Wexler at Billboard magazine, used to designate upbeat popular music performed by African American artists that combined jazz and blues. It replaced the term race music, which was deemed offensive, and was initially used to identify the style of music that later developed into rock and roll. By the 1970s, rhythm and blues was being used as a blanket term to describe soul and funk as well. Today, the acronym "R&B" is almost always used instead of "rhythm and blues", and defines the modern version of the soul and funk influenced African-American pop music that originated with the demise of disco in 1980.

Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_and_blues
Good shit.

I saw a documentary on this before, but the title I cannot remember at the moment.

But it basically talked about how alot of black artist like James Brown and Little Richard were "pushed" into becoming R&B and Funk.

People nowadays think that Rock started with Aerosmith or something.... :lol:

Body Count

28th February 2006, 02:49

BTW, I'm not saying that music does not have correlations to all of these things mentioned.

However, the point I'm trying to make is that its not BECAUSE certain styles are intrinsically "smarter" or "higher" then others....but they are *made* to appear so. And peoples own prejudices also come into play.

Quite frankly, I don't find most of the misogynist mainstream rap of today to be any worst then crappy, 80's hairband rock. But for certain reasons, people believe that it is.

Public Enemy in its Heyday was CERTAINLY more progressive then say, ACDC...most people wouldn't fathom this thought however...

wet blanket

28th February 2006, 03:02

-The more creative people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.
This is just stupid. What are you basing this on?

-The more intelligent people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.
This is probably even more stupid.

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which support capitalism most
You have a bit of a point here with pop music, as all pop music is pretty much owned by capitalists. I wouldn't say that they styles of music themselves support capitalism, unless there's some lyrics or message behind the music that expresses support for it.

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which have the most positive outlook on life whereas rock and its subgenres are more critical of life.
This is a stupid generalization.

-Alot of rock music stems from working class backgrounds.
So does a lot of rap, jazz, blues, R&B, soul, etc.

What do you guys think on this kind of thing? I don't mean to offend anyone and by all accounts I'm not saying that my words are fact, just what I have seen and assumed. Let me know. Cheers.
I think these are pretty dumb ideas.

Body Count

28th February 2006, 04:11

http://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/2_pac/great...changes.2pc.txt (http://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/2_pac/greatest/changes.2pc.txt)

Artist: 2Pac
Album: 2Pac Greatest Hits (Amaru/Interscope)
Song: Changes
Typed by: [email protected]

-1-
Come on come on
I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
is life worth living should I blast myself?
I'm tired of bein' poor & even worse I'm black
my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro
pull the trigger kill a nigga he's a hero
Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares
one less hungry mouth on the welfare
First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers
give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other
It's time to fight back that's what Huey said
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead
I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other
We gotta start makin' changes
learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers
and that's how it's supposed to be
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids
but things changed, and that's the way it is

Bridge w/ changing ad libs
Come on come on
That's just the way it is
Things'll never be the same
That's just the way it is
aww yeah
Repeat

-2-
I see no changes all I see is racist faces
misplaced hate makes disgrace to races
We under I wonder what it takes to make this
one better place, let's erase the wasted
Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right
'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight
and only time we chill is when we kill each other
it takes skill to be real, time to heal each other
And although it seems heaven sent
We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change
try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game
Now tell me what's a mother to do
bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you
You gotta operate the easy way
"I made a G today" But you made it in a sleazy way
sellin' crack to the kid. " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that's the way it is

Bridge

Talking:
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.

-3-
And still I see no changes can't a brother get a little peace
It's war on the streets & the war in the Middle East
Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs
so the police can bother me
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do
But now I'm back with the blacks givin' it back to you
Don't let 'em jack you up, back you up,
crack you up and pimp slap you up
You gotta learn to hold ya own
they get jealous when they see ya with ya mobile phone
But tell the cops they can't touch this
I don't trust this when they try to rush I bust this
That's the sound of my tool you say it ain't cool
my mama didn't raise no fool
And as long as I stay black I gotta stay strapped
& I never get to lay back
'Cause I always got to worry 'bout the pay backs
some buck that I roughed up way back
comin' back after all these years
rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat that's the way it is uhh

Bridge 'til fade

I think that this song is just as "intelligent" as any rock song I've heard.

Of course, you may not find doctors and lawyers listening to this song, but thats for reasons outside of the song.

Don't Change Your Name

28th February 2006, 07:21

This is a stupid thread.

Thanks to Nirvana, the record industry managed to profit for more than a decade, pouring out crap for "angsty teenagers".

That's all I'm gonna say for a while. Think about it.

Black Dagger

28th February 2006, 10:24

I'd love to, as soon as you can past your own extremeist generalizations of what I said.

Is drain.you your second account or something? Because i didn't even read your post and your getting very aggressive :lol:

I'm sure that there are plenty of wonderfull, intelliegent people who listen to gangsta "rap", and other pathetic, mainstream media, but I haven't met many.

What's 'gangsta rap'? Do you even know what Hip-Hop is? Of course, if you haven't met someone chances are they don't exist right?

I'm sure there are plenty of complete assholes who listen to jazz and reggae, but there aren't that many that I've met! Stop generalizing my views, man!

I was never talking about your views man! I didn't read your post.

You're being a sensationalist, assuming conformist.

What does that even mean? Buzz words don't create meaningful arguments!

Listen to what you want; it doesn't make you anything.

Exactly!

But the tendancy is this: intelligent people mainly listen to more creative musings; the less to more simple things, like rap and popular genres.

And use words like 'musings' yeah? Is there any actual basis to your assumption or are we to just take your word that this 'tendancy' exists?

Re.dun.dant

Exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous.
Needlessly wordy or repetitive in expression: a student paper filled with redundant phrases.
laugh.gif You didn't know what that meant, did you?

If you're trying to dispute whether or not using the word redundant was appropiate in my last post, it was, if not, then i have no idea what you're rambling about. It is pointless to make assumptions about people based on what music they listen to, because a lot of peoples' musical tastes cross genres, i.e. they listen to rock, pop and r&b, whoops i broke your 'tendancy' :(

Like your arguments?

Hypocrite.

:lol: You didn't address any of my arguments! Accussing me of being a 'sensationalist conformist' and a 'hypocrite' doesn't count.

Ol' Dirty

28th February 2006, 20:49

-The more creative people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

This is just stupid. What are you basing this on?

Tendency! It is merely a tendency of more intelligent people to listen to more origional music!

I think these are pretty dumb ideas.

I'm tired of you people pissing and moaning about things you refuse to understand.

drain.you

28th February 2006, 22:16

Hey, you may wonder why I haven't replied to these criticisms earlier but it was just ideas floating in my head and in my experience more open-minded, creative people have listened to music which is more critical of society and not simply about 'bling' and 'booty'. I not gonna defend my ideas cause I cant say they are true of the entire world and aren't exactly at the centre of my overall ideology lol. However I think some people on this forum should grow up, insulting my ideas is pathetic, at least be open minded and explain why I am so deadly wrong. Seems like a weird thing to be so offensive over :-S

Ol' Dirty

28th February 2006, 22:56

Agreed. Especially with remarks such as theirs.

wet blanket

3rd March 2006, 05:14

Tendancy! It is merely a tendancy of more intelligent people to listen to more origional music!
I'm not even sure you know what the term 'tendency' even means, let alone how to spell it properly. Do you have a range of statistical data which plots the intelligence of individuals and their musical tastes with which you can prove that there's a real tendency? If not, it's pretty safe to assume that you're basing this off of what little experience you have with the relatively miniscule section of the human population you interact with... You're speaking out of ignorance and speculation.

I'm tired of you people pissing and moaning about things you refuse to understand.
I understand it completely and the whole thing is fucking juvenile.

creative people have listened to music which is more critical of society and not simply about 'bling' and 'booty'.
Give some examples. For every 'bling&booty' song there's a song by the likes of Marilyn Manson, Nirvana, Nine inch Nails, and an array of other angsty record-industry puppets marketing their neatly packaged, 'industry-standard', media to the millions of gullible consumers who think they're really 'in' on something totally new and creative.

It's all fake and you shouldn't take it so seriously that you hold a prejudice towards those with different tastes in music.

3rd March 2006, 06:37

Give some examples. For every 'bling&booty' song there's a song by the likes of Marilyn Manson, Nirvana, Nine inch Nails, and an array of other angsty record-industry puppets marketing their neatly packaged, 'industry-standard', media to the millions of gullible consumers who think they're really 'in' on something totally new and creative.

It's all fake and you shouldn't take it so seriously that you hold a prejudice towards those with different tastes in music.

Thank you.

Ol' Dirty

4th March 2006, 04:52

I'm sure that there are plenty of wonderfull, intelliegent people who listen to gangsta "rap", and other pathetic, mainstream media, but I haven't met many.

What's 'gangsta rap'?

You're one to question my knowledge on the subject. :lol: Here's gangsta "rap" by 50 Cent (s worth of real art):

[Chorus - 50 Cent]
It ain't easy to make money (Whoo)
So now everybody wanna take money (Uh huh, uh huh) (See what I mean?)
You ain't a thug, matter fact you a fake money (Take money, uh)
Fuck wit mines, I'ma view you at ya weight money
It ain't a game

[Verse 1 - 50 Cent]
You can call me player yeah, but I ain't playing fair (Uh huh)
Takers say I'm the hottest thang comin' this year (No doubt, ha ha ha)
In the hood niggas know, how I handle my problems
I walk up close, and I fo', fo' revolve 'em
Don't make me run to you, put the gun to you
Have yo ass on Phil Donahue explaining what the fuck I done to you
Thug niggas in the street saying I'm sunning you
Dude I'll smoke you every motherfucker under you
People say chill, but still I do, what I wanna do
For now on, when I speak, y'all niggas better listen
Why run against a thoroughbred when you ain't in no condition
Still got shit on ya nose, from all that ass you been kissing (hahaha).

Oh, yeah... right. Whoever listens to this is a genius. :lol:

Do you even know what Hip-Hop is?

Hip-hop: A musical genre based upon rythem and ryhme; musical poetry.

Of course, if haven't met someone chances are they don't exist right.

*Cough* Horrible Syntax *Cough.

Pardon me, ignorant shit get's me congested.

You're being a sensationalist, assuming conformist.

What does that even mean? Buzz words don't create meaningful arguments!

Well, if the brown shirt fits...

If you don't know what it means, look it up.

But the tendancy is this: intelligent people mainly listen to more creative musings; the less to more simple things, like rap and popular genres.

And use words like 'musings' yeah? Is there any actual basis to your assumption or are we to just take your word that this 'tendancy' exists?

Dude, this is the theory section.

Re.dun.dant

Exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous.
Needlessly wordy or repetitive in expression: a student paper filled with redundant phrases.
laugh.gif You didn't know what that meant, did you?

If you're trying to dispute whether or not using the word redundant was appropiate in my last post, it was, if not, then i have no idea what you're rambling about.

:huh: What?

It is pointless to make assumptions about people based on what music they listen to, because a lot of peoples' musical tastes cross genres, i.e. they listen to rock, pop and r&b, whoops i broke your 'tendancy' :(

Like your arguments?

Hypocrite.

:lol: You didn't address any of my arguments! Accussing me of being a 'sensationalist conformist' and a 'hypocrite' doesn't count.

I have now.

4th March 2006, 05:43

What you fail to realize is the fact that you don't need complex anything to make good art. This isn't the case at all, and assuming so is just sheer idiocy.

wet blanket

4th March 2006, 10:27

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 05:20 AM
*Cough* Horrible Syntax *Cough.

Pardon me, ignorant shit get's me congested.

You're an idiot.

Much Commie Love

4th March 2006, 13:19

Now let's not get too cocky, people. This topic is degenerating into mere mindless rage and furious hate. This is not a battle of genres, it's a friendly chat about the relationship of artistry and people's backgrounds... which is more or less totally fluid, heck, even non-existant at times. But more often than not, I guess, you could say "some" do prefer it over other's, or the envirnoment 'makes' them to. Then, well.. Whatever's right, so be it. It's not that impervious to the revolution... And P.S., as-a-matter-of-fact! Not all middle-aged radicals like folk music either, by the way ;)

redstar2000

4th March 2006, 16:47

Regrettably, I'm going to have to move this thread to the Music forum...because no one is really talking about revolutionary theory here.

Instead, people seem to be mostly flaming one another over their personal musical preferences.

I don't think that's very productive...but if you folks think it "must be done" then the Music forum is the place to do it.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Dr. Rosenpenis

4th March 2006, 19:57

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 08:55 PM
Hey,
I was discussing with my girlfriend earlier today about music and how certain types of people seem to listen to certain types of music. Obviously music is a form of expression and people who listen to certain music see it as epxressing their outlook on life and such but is their something deeper?

I don't want to say that this is definate but here are what I have observed.

-The more creative people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

-The more intelligent people in society tend to listen to rock style music rather than mainstream pop and R&B.

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which support capitalism most

-Pop and R&B are styles of music which have the most positive outlook on life whereas rock and its subgenres are more critical of life.

-Both pop and rock are broad enough to spread between working class and middle class.

-Alot of rock music stems from working class backgrounds.

What do you guys think on this kind of thing? I don't mean to offend anyone and by all accounts I'm not saying that my words are fact, just what I have seen and assumed. Let me know. Cheers.
This is some of the dumbest shit I've ever read.
You're making sweeping generalizations that are horribly biased. The truth is that a vast majority of popular music, of all genres, whether it's rock, r&b, punk, metal, country, folk, etc. are shitty and pander to people with shitty musical tastes. There are plenty of all genres that are "progressive", rebellious or just fucking dumb or which cater to conservative, right-wing minded ass-holes. You seem to be trying to only look at only the best rock and only the worst r&b. I don't know why. I don't know how Three Doors Down and Sum41 are critical of the status quo and are appreciated by creative and intelligent people and how Stevie Wonder and A Tribe Called Quest are somehow naive about reality or how they are appreciated by less creative and less intelligent people.

Notice that I chose four very mainstream artists of both of the major "camps" of popular music.

You also seem to only be looking at two very generalized, very broad, and very mainstream musical genres. I know plenty of idiots who listen primarily to jazz or country. And I know plenty of creative people and "intellectuals" who listen primarily to blues or folk or classical. I don't know where fuck you've been where all people listen to either r&b and pop or rock.

Ol' Dirty

4th March 2006, 21:52

Originally posted by wet blanket+Mar 4 2006, 10:55 AM--> (wet blanket @ Mar 4 2006, 10:55 AM)
[email protected] 4 2006, 05:20 AM
*Cough* Horrible Syntax *Cough.

Pardon me, ignorant shit get's me congested.

You're an idiot. [/b]
Thanks for correcting me. I have Tourette's Syndrome and OCD, so sometimes my typing is awkward.

Also, it's rather sad that you have to insult me to try to prove me wrong. Truly, only people without real arguments need to insult people in a debate.

The Grey Blur

4th March 2006, 22:28

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 03:26 AM
While I used to listen to rock a lot, and I still like it (and I like classical a lot too. I think the Mozart's opera The Magic Flute is brilliant, especially the Birdcatcher's song), my playlist now is mostly versions of the Internationale, songs from 1930s Spain and miscaelaneous, including rock, classical and other odd stuff.

What does that make me? :P
A sellout

wet blanket

4th March 2006, 22:46

Originally posted by FluxOne13+Mar 4 2006, 10:20 PM--> (FluxOne13 @ Mar 4 2006, 10:20 PM)
Originally posted by wet [email protected] 4 2006, 10:55 AM

[email protected] 4 2006, 05:20 AM
*Cough* Horrible Syntax *Cough.

Pardon me, ignorant shit get's me congested.

You're an idiot.
Thanks for correcting me. I have Tourette's Syndrome and OCD, so sometimes my typing is awkward.

Also, it's rather sad that you have to insult me to try to prove me wrong. Truly, only people without real arguments need to insult people in a debate. [/b]
It had nothing to do with that. You were ragging on someone else's grammar and at the same time making a grammatical error yourself.

Someone had to push you off your high-horse.