Proletarian pacifism?

[anomaly]

This recently came to mind. What if some proletarians are pacifists? What if they don't support the revolution for this reason, and then do not support the society the war has created? It is, on the surface, not so large a problem. But what if they act upon their displeasure, and 'secede' from socialist society? How should we deal with this?

[ColinH]

Well, if it gets to the point where people become pissed off and revolt, I don't see a group of pacifists as being a barrier to such action.

Now, upon the creation of a socialist society, I would assume that pacifists would be as free and capable of 'seceding' as they are in capitalist society. However they go about that is beyond me.

[ComradeOm]

How exactly can you 'secede' from socialist society? If a group of people refuse to revolt and then prompty return to a form of capitalist society then I doubt that they're proletarian in the first place ;)

[bezdomni]

That's like asking "what if the serfs want to go back to feudalism?"

They won't.

[loveme4whoiam]

As far as I can see, it'd be impossible to revert to capitalism. Why on earth would you reintroduce money after a gift economy?

[violencia.Proletariat]

What if some proletarians are pacifists?

Pacifism is mostly a middle class phenomenon.


What if they don't support the revolution for this reason, and then do not support the society the war has created?

Well if the two proletarian pacifists dont support it, oh well. Whats the big deal?


But what if they act upon their displeasure, and 'secede' from socialist society? How should we deal with this?

It's not a big deal. They are entitled to what they produce, but not the benefits of mutual aid if they do not care to take part.

[STI]

This recently came to mind. What if some proletarians are pacifists? What if they don't support the revolution for this reason, and then do not support the society the war has created?

Then they're counter-revolutionaries and will have to be repressed in a communist society (if they make their opposition public).


That's like asking "what if the serfs want to go back to feudalism?"

They won't.

Some are (and will be) so thoroughly reactionary that they want nothing more than a return to "the old ways". Imagine a sexist, racist, religious bigot (yeah, there'll still be a few of them left come the revolution... not many, but a few). Why is this asshole going to want a society where he doesn't get to have any power over a black woman who doesn't believe in god? He's not, and he'll oppose it.


As far as I can see, it'd be impossible to revert to capitalism. Why on earth would you reintroduce money after a gift economy?

If counter-revolutionary elements take over the means of production and reinstate private property as an institution, capitalism will have been restored.

[enigma2517]

How could they secede without taking some capital with them?

I was wondering how you think this peaceful coexistance can function?

[anomaly]

I do think it is improbable that any sizeable portion of the proletariat will feel so strongly about their 'pacifism' that they will actively oppose a revolution which will materially benefit them. And by the time conditions right for revolution come about, that any proletarians will actually want to preserve the system simply to avoid war is highly improbable, if not an impossibility.

So I suppose it is simply a non-issue.

[Zero]

Personally I believe that pacifists like me will be swayed by the overwhelming amount of information, and power that would be given to the people. We won't be swayed into violence of course, but we will support you untill the end.

[norwegian commie]

Even if we kill a bunch of borgeise bastards seriusly opposing the revolution? If we resort to drastic and violent methods to gain power? the revolution is not a tea-party and some lIves will be lost. As few as possible yes, but if the borgeise and the Capital start spreading Counter revolutionary propaganda and start resorting to violence they must be delt with in a not so friendly matter.

Then you as pacifists will wach me and my reds kill borgeise opposing the revolution? i doubt it? Then chances are you become anti-revolutionaries and no body likes them... I know it sounds rough but this is not easy, its a revolution and if we need to use violence then so be it.

[Zero]

You talk about the destroying of anothers life so easily.

Nay, violence should be the last resort. I agree with you that it will eventually turn bloody. However jumping to that point is simply childish.