The most fascinating theory?

[Chrysalis]

What do you consider to be the most fascinating theory? You can include scientific or political, etc. It doesn't matter. I'd like to hear it.

I find these theories to be fascinating and intriguing:

1. Idealism---Berkeley. et al.

2. Hume's Problem of Causation and Necessary Connection.

I don't necessarily agree with idealism. I just find the reasoning behind it very interesting. With Hume's, I still need to read most of it, but so far, it is exciting to read that a philosopher could take the very thing we do everyday (and that we take for granted) and explain it precisely in a way that once we understand what Hume means, we would feel as if we were caught unaware. There is that feeling of awe upon understanding such seemingly simple explanation.

[More Fire for the People]

1. Hegelianism and Anti-Hegelianism — Hegel, Marx, Kierkegaard, Nietzche.
2. Existentialism — I must admit that even though I am fascinated by existentialism I have not read much upon it. I would say that the existentialist that has influenced by the most is Jean-Paul Sartre.
3. Other influences and interests — Christianity and Ludwig Wittgenstein. I am a practicing Christian even though I find faults in my religion. I take some loose inspiration from Wittgenstein but I am entirely fascinated by him.

[which doctor]

Dadaism- a bunch of crazy european artists

Post-Modernism

I don't neccassairly agree with them, I just find them interesting

[Hegemonicretribution]

I find many philosophies fascinating, and more often than not it is a philosophy that I disagree with that I am interested in.

Nihilism I think is an extremely enjoyable set of concepts to get your head around, and I think that as a reding exercise alone Nietzsche is worth while.

I also find Kuhn's stance on scientific revolutions very interesting.

[Monty Cantsin]

1) Marxism and Neo-Marxist thought.
2) Existentialism, the atheist kind and religious.
2) post-modernism
3)Ludwig Wittgenstein and others of the analytic school.
4) pre-socratics

so most things really, but that's a good order.

[Scars]

Nietzsche. He is probably my favourite philosopher (as opposed to political philosopher, which would obviously be Marx or Social which would be Rousseau), his ideas are very convincing and not half as right-wing as people make them out to be. They are certainly not fascist, his ideas are no more totalitarian than Plato or Sparta (both of which are exalted and have been the basis of many of the Western Democracies' systems. Look at the Spartan political system and compare it to the USA, it's very similar). In addition he's a brillant writer, Thus Spoke Zarathustra would be my favourite German novel (although I will admit I don't read a lot of German books- I prefer 19th century French and Russian works) and he is one of the few poetic philosophers. It's definately dense at times, The Birth of Tragety is evidence of that, but he could write in a way that makes his works far easier and more enjoyable to read than the fairly painful works of Marx, Sartre and so on.

Continuing the Nietzsche theme, Bataille intrests me; as does Foucault, though both are inferior writers and about half of what Foucault wrote doesn't interest me in the least (I have almost no interest in sexuality).

My love of Nietzsche is very, very ironic.

[Ol' Dirty]

1. Techno-communism/socialism.
2. Communalism.
3. Anarcho-capitalism (its hypocracy astounds me :lol:).

[ReD_ReBeL]

his ideas are very convincing and not half as right-wing as people make them out to be. They are certainly not fascist,
Yes i too wouldent say Nietzsche was a fascist by any means.His sister was a Nazi sympathizer and he hated her views on Nazi's. the Nazi party did like Nietzche though, and made it law to teach Nietzches works in schools.

[Scars]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 01:41 AM

his ideas are very convincing and not half as right-wing as people make them out to be. They are certainly not fascist,
Yes i too wouldent say Nietzsche was a fascist by any means.His sister was a Nazi sympathizer and he hated her views on Nazi's. the Nazi party did like Nietzche though, and made it law to teach Nietzches works in schools.
His sister was an extreme anti-scemite and early supporter of Hitler. Unfortunatley Nietzsche went insane and fell under his sister's protection and thus she created a couple of heavily edited books that made him out to support Nazi ideals. She also edited a heavily manipulated collection of letters to make them seem far, far closer than they really were- in reality Nietzsche was disgusted by his sister's anti-scemtism and disliked her husband...a lot.

Nietzsche was anti-nationalist, despised Germans with a passion (there are a lot of very good quotes) and held the French in high esteem. He also hated politics and most politicians.

[Chrysalis]

Yeah, I think it's difficult not to bring up biographical background of a theorist when reading his or her works, at least those works in the political philosophy, ethics, morality. And I think Nietzsche's work is one of those that cannot be separated, or at least very difficult to understand without distinction, from his own personal crisis or history. I remember in a lecture on Mill's conception of the Individual, i.e. what makes an individual free, etc. My prof brought up Mill's rejection of his (Mill's) upbringing. It was very telling in his use of the word "manufactured" man: an individual made to conform to society's dominant opinion.

[JasonJ]

Interesting.........

So far, no one has yet mentioned Darwinism. Or is the notion of our fleeting position on the timeline of this rock entirely too unbearable for us to face today?

I find everyone talking all this mystical theory about religion and politics, and whether we truly understand where Friedrich Nietzsche was coming from, but nobody wants to discuss where we are coming from or going for that matter.

I realize that the implications of Darwinism as a political philosophy are unreasonable, yet they are daily practiced by our governments while denied by the religious puppets that support them. This is not however what I am most interested in discussing. Social Darwinism is truly an evil our world could stand to live without, but until we can have an honest discussion on the origins of life and the implications of the notion of speciation then I believe we are still falling into the same old traps I saw the first time I ever read Plato's Republic and Marx's Communist Manifesto. We are still talking about systems which attempt to control the human species via a control mechanism that obfuscates the truth from even the authors of the system with time. Any system that has need to take a mind first perspective only ends in the downward spiral of which came first the chicken or the egg. Who is this God? Where did he come from? Who created the creator?

[Voulacce]

Nihilism

Dada

Existentialism

Anarchism

Socialism

[ComradeRed]

Marxism need I explain?

Newton's System You have to admit that through synthetic calculus alone incorporating Kepler's laws into a form that makes it simply a derivable corollary from Newton's three laws is pretty damn impressive. And from my understanding, wasn't it entirely incidental?

Darwinism One of the best damn recipes for evolution, first comprehensive one anyways.

[LoneRed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 05:33 PM
I find these theories to be fascinating and intriguing:

1. Idealism---Berkeley. et al.

2. Hume's Problem of Causation and Necessary Connection.


its funny you would mention those two specific theories, as in the philosophy class that i just finished we went over those two as well as more berkeley,Hume, as well as Descartes

[Chrysalis]

LoneRed:

I've been wanting to open a thread on Berkeley's Idealism (or any idealism), but I've got other things to do still. I would be interested if you have something to write about it.

Anyway, small world.

[Mariam]

Actually phiolosophy in general is an interesting issue, but the first philosophical text i was exposed to was Rubayat AlKhayam. You may have heard of him: Omar AlKhayam a Pearsian poet and mathmatician. I read his poem colection when i was 12.
You can say that AlKhayam was an islamic anarchist (not in politics, but as a way of living), he was counted as a Muslim but he didn't literary obay the laws of Islam.He lived and died under no rule, but the tule of his free spirit.He was a romantic dreamer who has spent his life in a kind of a pessimistic lamentation asking God and himself about the absurdity of life, and the futility of living.
Then i moved to Khalil Jobran, who is well kown in the US. Jobran was rather mystical, and longing to unite with God (Christ).
Ironically, i moved to Nietzche. For a while i was impressed by Existential philosophy. Later i found my rebelious nature in anarchism. Not to mention Deconstraction, Nhilisim, and even Absurdity.
There are alot in mind!!
After all you have to find your own philosophy. :blush:

[Mariam]

But let me say that what Heracliteas (im not sure of the spelling\my problem) that you can not put your feet in the same river twice.Though i dont agree with him totally.

[Voulacce]

I forgot Darwinism

[LoneRed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 12:56 AM
LoneRed:

I've been wanting to open a thread on Berkeley's Idealism (or any idealism), but I've got other things to do still. I would be interested if you have something to write about it.

Anyway, small world.
ya no problem just let me know, pm me or something ;)

[rouchambeau]

FASCISM. No really, very interesting stuff.

[Chrysalis]

Yeah, Darwin's theories hands down.




Originally posted by LoneRed
ya no problem just let me know, pm me or something ;)
Okay. Give me some time. :)

[Zero]

Originally posted by "rouchambeau"
FASCISM.
Makes good mulch ehh?

[Chrysalis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 10:43 AM
But let me say that what Heracliteas (im not sure of the spelling\my problem) that you can not put your feet in the same river twice.Though i dont agree with him totally.
Adonis, I think you have an interesting mix of philosophy, not to mention how you started in philosophy. I want to hear why you say you don't agree with Heraclitus that you cannot put your feet in the same river twice. Also, why do you think this seems to be a favorite line in the eastern thought?

[CCCPneubauten]

You guys DO know that Nietzsche hated the State, he felt that the State was the killer of culture. Almost anarchist in a sense.

[sapho]

I like to read about the "chaos theory".

The flapping of a single butterfly's wing today produces a tiny change in the state of the atmosphere. Over a period of time, what the atmosphere actually does diverges from what it would have done. :ph34r:

[Chrysalis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 02:46 PM
I like to read about the "chaos theory".

The flapping of a single butterfly's wing today produces a tiny change in the state of the atmosphere. Over a period of time, what the atmosphere actually does diverges from what it would have done. :ph34r:
Chaos theory, of course.


I'm beginning to think it has a lot more in common with Darwin's theory of evolution: given certain conditions, we get certain results. "Certain conditions" being the necessary and sufficient conditions for certain things to happen or exist.

[RebelDog]

Marxism

Darwinism

Quantum mechanics

General relativity

Sods law

[Brownfist]

Post-structuralist theory - Deleuze is fascinating and Foucault is inspiring
Post-colonial theory - Guha, Chatterjee, Spivak
Post-Marxist theory - Got to love Benjamin, Adorno and Marcuse
Marxism (this includes Trotsky, Lenin, Mao, Sison etc)

[barret]

I find Nietzsche to probably be one of my favorite philosophers of all time. I find that many people ignorant of his idea's instantly claim that he's a Nazi. Infact, upon his last years of life, his sister 'sold him out' to the Nazi's, editing his works to create the feeling that he was pro-nazi, which infact he was the opposite.
My issue with any of the philosophies which interest me the most, mostly Extensionalism ( and I guess you could throw Nihilism in there to)and post-modernism is the fact that they have such an overtly pessimistic view of the world, and I for one don't share that view.

[Dyst]

I fail to see how the "butterfly allegory" has anything to do with chaos.

In my eyes it is the direct opposite, everything has a cause.

[JimFar]

barret wrote:


I find Nietzsche to probably be one of my favorite philosophers of all time. I find that many people ignorant of his idea's instantly claim that he's a Nazi. Infact, upon his last years of life, his sister 'sold him out' to the Nazi's, editing his works to create the feeling that he was pro-nazi, which infact he was the opposite.
My issue with any of the philosophies which interest me the most, mostly Extensionalism ( and I guess you could throw Nihilism in there to)and post-modernism is the fact that they have such an overtly pessimistic view of the world, and I for one don't share that view.

Well, since Nietzsche died in 1900, his sister. Elisabeth, could not have sold him out to the Nazis, since they did not yet exist. Nevertheless, you are basically correct about his sister and how she presented to the world a distorted picture of her brother's work. When her brother became insane and was confined to an asylum, she became his guardian and gained custody of his unpublished manuscripts. Unlike her brother, she was a cofirmed German chauvinist and an avowed anti-Semite. Whereas, her brother was contemptous of the Prussian Junkers who ruled Germany, Elisabeth was a strong supporter of them, and when she undertook the editing and publication of her brother's manuscripts, she went out of her way to make them appear to give philosophical support to the new Germany of "blood and iron."

Following the First World War, Elisabeth became an avid supporter of Mussolini, with whom she corresponded for many years. And she attempted to present her brother's philosophy as lending support to Fascism. And in the early 1930s, she did the same thing in regards to Hitler, who claimed to be a great fan of Nietzsche's writings. When she died in 1935, she was granted a state funeral, at which the Fuerher delivered a eulogy for her.

[RebelDog]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 04:00 AM
I find Nietzsche to probably be one of my favorite philosophers of all time. I find that many people ignorant of his idea's instantly claim that he's a Nazi. Infact, upon his last years of life, his sister 'sold him out' to the Nazi's, editing his works to create the feeling that he was pro-nazi, which infact he was the opposite.
My issue with any of the philosophies which interest me the most, mostly Extensionalism ( and I guess you could throw Nihilism in there to)and post-modernism is the fact that they have such an overtly pessimistic view of the world, and I for one don't share that view.
I believe William L Shirer put it just like that in 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich'

[Fistful of Steel]

Thus Spoke Zarathustra was given to German soldiers in the First World War to inspire them. Pretty interesting, that Nietzsche was. There's a lot about what he said I don't agree with or I have trouble swallowing, but his writings have personally made me strive to be more than I would have otherwise.

[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 03:58 AM
I fail to see how the "butterfly allegory" has anything to do with chaos.

In my eyes it is the direct opposite, everything has a cause.
That's one of the main points of chaos theory, finding the order in apparent chaos.
Chaos is order.

[Fistful of Steel]

"Chaos is just patterns that haven't been found yet" or something like that.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Barret, do you really find existentialism/postmodernism/nihilism to all be pesimistic? I found existentialism fairly liberating, and whilst the latter two have helped my critical points, I don't think they are quite as useful.

Nice brief biography JimFar, acurate as well :)


Sod's Law
:lol:

[barret]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 09:45 PM
Barret, do you really find existentialism/postmodernism/nihilism to all be pesimistic? I found existentialism fairly liberating, and whilst the latter two have helped my critical points, I don't think they are quite as useful.

I can always be wrong.

Reading up on those philiophies, it's basically isolating ones self from the wrongs of the world. It's drawn by a sense of hopelessness in the current world, and rather than doing something about it, they believe that they should close themselves down from the world, sort of like that nerd who sits in his basement playing dungeons and dragons all day. There are many more optimistic views of those philosophies but they're primarily based on the idea of being free from the normal principles that plague everyone else in their daily lives.

I don't feel that due to the hopless feeling that I have about various issues should make me turn off from socieity, infact I believe I should be the opposite and fight these feelings head on. Which in comparison, is slightly more optimistic.

[Fistful of Steel]

Originally posted by barret+Apr 30 2006, 03:42 AM--> (barret @ Apr 30 2006, 03:42 AM)
[email protected] 29 2006, 09:45 PM
Barret, do you really find existentialism/postmodernism/nihilism to all be pesimistic? I found existentialism fairly liberating, and whilst the latter two have helped my critical points, I don't think they are quite as useful.

I can always be wrong.

Reading up on those philiophies, it's basically isolating ones self from the wrongs of the world. It's drawn by a sense of hopelessness in the current world, and rather than doing something about it, they believe that they should close themselves down from the world, sort of like that nerd who sits in his basement playing dungeons and dragons all day. There are many more optimistic views of those philosophies but they're primarily based on the idea of being free from the normal principles that plague everyone else in their daily lives.

I don't feel that due to the hopless feeling that I have about various issues should make me turn off from socieity, infact I believe I should be the opposite and fight these feelings head on. Which in comparison, is slightly more optimistic. [/b]
ex·is·ten·tial·ism Audio pronunciation of "existentialism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gz-stnsh-lzm, ks-)
n.

A philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness and isolation of the individual experience in a hostile or indifferent universe, regards human existence as unexplainable, and stresses freedom of choice and responsibility for the consequences of one's acts.

That is pretty comparable with your last paragraph, since it assumes people are alone (we're all trapped within our own body), yet we're free to choose and decide things and how we want them. Like a person chooses to be nerdy and alone all the time, then they're going to notice how alone they are more. A person chooses to submerge themselves in sociality and people, they'll mask their aloneness better.

[VermontLeft]

What do you consider to be the most fascinating theory?

Communism. ;)

[Hegemonicretribution]

Your last paragraph is closer to the what is implied by such doctrines. The language may appear pesimistic, but through translations, and the fact that words are used in different ways in many existentialist writings, it is easy to get the wrong idea.

Satre's "anguish abandonment and despair" do not imply a happy philosophy, but really this isn't the point. All it means is that you are alone without god, and everything you do is chosen, whether you think so or not. Also, it is up to the individual to be responsible for their choice, and any self deception is also chosen and subject to the same. Closing oneself down is not really an option according to all existentialists, "quietism" is actually frowned upon.

This is a philosophy that simply is, it is only the lack of real room for self deception that may be seem as negative, especially by those most self deceiving.

[Macchendra]

The Philosophy of Buddhism.

Overcoming ones fear and desire is the ultimate Anarchy.

Authoritarianism operates by the principle of rewards and punishments, which is undermined when there is no desire for rewards or fear of punishments.

The other way in which authoritarianism can operate is physical control over another, which has as its parallel in Buddhism their strict adherence to non-violence.

It seems that Buddha was the ultimate Anarchist.

[Fistful of Steel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 08:37 PM
The Philosophy of Buddhism.

Overcoming ones fear and desire is the ultimate Anarchy.

Authoritarianism operates by the principle of rewards and punishments, which is undermined when there is no desire for rewards or fear of punishments.

The other way in which authoritarianism can operate is physical control over another, which has as its parallel in Buddhism their strict adherence to non-violence.

It seems that Buddha was the ultimate Anarchist.
Don't let the majority of the board hear that. They think Buddhism is a religion that is somehow connected to levitating the pentagon. Oh the ignorance. :lol:

[Macchendra]

Originally posted by Fistful of [email protected] 2 2006, 02:04 AM
Don't let the majority of the board hear that. They think Buddhism is a religion that is somehow connected to levitating the pentagon. Oh the ignorance. :lol:
Yeah, I was careful to emphasize "philosophy", which is what it is.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 07:58 PM
Yeah, I was careful to emphasize "philosophy", which is what it is.
Buddhism is a religion, it is lifestylism, it is many things. What is important is to clarify what is meant by it, as the meanings can be wide ranging. I have read various bits on the Buddhism, and that which it has inspired and to be honest it varies a lot. Some of it is crap, some of it is sensible approaches that may be more effective because of perceived novelty.

What is important is realising it for what it is at all times.

[Commie Rat]

Chaos, is an order or orders of such that it cannot be regonized as a pattern as it it is either too complex or with out preccedent, and yet it is a pattern, as every must have a logical 'pattern' or descirberable way that they work.

ID makes me laugh, as does most mysticism

[Chrysalis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 10:36 PM
Buddhism is a religion, it is lifestylism, it is many things. What is important is to clarify what is meant by it, as the meanings can be wide ranging. I have read various bits on the Buddhism, and that which it has inspired and to be honest it varies a lot. Some of it is crap, some of it is sensible approaches that may be more effective because of perceived novelty.

What is important is realising it for what it is at all times.
Very reasonably said, Hegemonicretribution. I agree. I tend to view philosophy, as I have heard and read many who wrote on philosophical topics say, as something that uses a different method of inquiry and analyses than what religion or lifestyle doctrines use. And I think it is only fair to see Buddhism, for example, as something that needs to be analyzed in a different way, using different methods of inquiry, using different concepts, and different commitment and adherence to its teachings.