The Pakistan Earthquake

[ReD_ReBeL]

so we know 4 months ago a devastating incident happened in Pakistan mostly effecting the poor regions killing an estimated 79,000 and since then they have been slowly bettering the conditions, still useing tents as temperarly homes. But is there more other Countries could of done? When the Tsunami happened there was a big media campaign for people to donate money and it was on the news for month continuesly. But in pakistan there has been no such response there has been a few media clips of the earthquake but there hasn't been a major public outcry for help to pakistan. Could this be a case of islamaphobia?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 11:14 AM
so we know 4 months ago a devastating incident happened in Pakistan mostly effecting the poor regions killing an estimated 79,000 and since then they have been slowly bettering the conditions, still useing tents as temperarly homes. But is there more other Countries could of done? When the Tsunami happened there was a big media campaign for people to donate money and it was on the news for month continuesly. But in pakistan there has been no such response there has been a few media clips of the earthquake but there hasn't been a major public outcry for help to pakistan. Could this be a case of islamaphobia?
I would suspect that the majority of first world governments are concerned with two key issues: the first being that they have no guarantee that any money provided to Pakistan will actually get the the people who need it.

The odds are the money will actually end up in the hands of fundamental islamic groups that have no intention of rebuilding anything besides their battered jihadic sects.

Considering how much aid that was given to Somalians that ended up being used to purchase new weapons and vehicles for megalomaniacle warlords throughout the country, one can see why this would be a deterrent.

In addition to that, western nations are simply afraid of being labeled by the USA and its cohorts as being "soft on terrorism" by providing aid of any amount to non occupied middle eastern nations.

I think it's more of a case of what western nations consider to be "good politics" rather than "islamo-phobia".

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 05:14 AM
so we know 4 months ago a devastating incident happened in Pakistan mostly effecting the poor regions killing an estimated 79,000 and since then they have been slowly bettering the conditions, still useing tents as temperarly homes. But is there more other Countries could of done? When the Tsunami happened there was a big media campaign for people to donate money and it was on the news for month continuesly. But in pakistan there has been no such response there has been a few media clips of the earthquake but there hasn't been a major public outcry for help to pakistan. Could this be a case of islamaphobia?
i doubt it - indonesia has the largest muslim population in the world, and aceh [the worst hit area] was overwhelmingly muslim. although islamophobia continues to increase daily, i don't think that there were any events between the tsunami and the earthquake which would have drastically changed government's attitudes. well apart from the london bombing, i suppose. besides, while pakistan is a muslim nation, it has very strong ties with the US and often supports it in its imperialist strategies [which is why it's considered a 'traitor' by some muslims around the world].

i too have wondered why pakistan hasn't received much attention at all - it definitely hasn't been 'relative' to the number of people killed in each disaster.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

From Volume 2, Issue 1 of The Free Press (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/freepress.html):

Cuba’s volunteer doctors ‘unsurpassed’ in their treatment of Pakistani earthquake victims

Volunteer Cuban doctors from the Henry Reeve International Contingent have attended 500,000 patients and saved hundreds of lives in the Kashmiri area of Pakistan since a devastating earthquake hit the region in October of 2005.

The doctors have performed 5,040 operations and the communities they have attended have been declared free of risk from epidemics – an amazing feat in an area where they were abundant only a few months earlier. Those same communities continue to receive completely free, quality healthcare from the Cuban doctors.

The October earthquake left Pakistan with 73,000 dead and another 70,000 wounded. Another 3.3 million people (including approximately two million children) were left homeless by the disaster.

“The Cubans are not afraid of the weather or these low temperatures. They are only interested in helping people affected,” said Colonel Atif Shafique, the head of the 21st Cavalry Regument in the city of Peshwar. “Cuba is now in my blood and in my sentiments.”

A total of 2,260 Cubans are caring for survivors in Pakistan, where they arrived with just medicines and surgical equipment.

“I am convinced that this is a solidarity effort that we would not find in many other countries with more or less resources than Cuba, but it is not a material issue but one of will,” said Indiana Gonzalez Mairena, director of UNICEF in Pakistan.

According to a report published by the UN High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) on January 25, the presence of Cuban women doctors and nurses (who make up 50% of the contingent) has been of additional help to many Pakistani women in need of attention who, because of their culture and customs, feel uncomfortable using the latrines, and refuse to see a male doctor.

The International Contingent of Doctors Specializing in Disaster Situation and Serious Epidemics, which is named the Henry Reeve International Contingent (after an American who fought bravely alongside a group of Cubans for their countries independence from Spain in the 19th century), was created in Havana on September 19 by Cuban President Fidel Castro, during a graduation ceremony of 1,905 doctors.

The Contingent was originally organized in response to Hurricane Katrina, when Cuba offered over 1,500 doctors to attend the victims (see “Venezuela and Cuba Offer Aid To Katrina Victims,” The Free Press, Volume 1, Issue 4). The offer was refused by the U.S. government, even as countless hurricane victims suffered.

Cuba has always shown solidarity with people in need since its socialist revolution took place in 1959. Hundreds of Cuban doctors and teachers are volunteering all over the world – especially in Asia and Africa where they’re needed most.

Another 140 Cubans left for Bolivia in early February to help the victims of floods and heavy rains there.

[Vanguard1917]

i too have wondered why pakistan hasn't received much attention at all

I'd say because of the lack of Western tourists in Pakistan.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 12:14 PM
so we know 4 months ago a devastating incident happened in Pakistan mostly effecting the poor regions killing an estimated 79,000 and since then they have been slowly bettering the conditions, still useing tents as temperarly homes. But is there more other Countries could of done? When the Tsunami happened there was a big media campaign for people to donate money and it was on the news for month continuesly. But in pakistan there has been no such response there has been a few media clips of the earthquake but there hasn't been a major public outcry for help to pakistan. Could this be a case of islamaphobia?
It's probably just the typical response of imperialism to human suffering in the Third World - and sometimes even in the First World!

The tsunami was something of an exception, due to its sheer size and maybe to the presence of Western tourists as Vanguard1917 says. Even so, there was probably more talk than action that really benefitted those affected.

***

The response by Bill Shatner (Comrade RAF renamed?), on the other hand, pretty clearly is a case of Islamophobia. Ignorant assumption that all Muslims are jihadist fundamentalists. In fact, Pakistan is not Somalia, and the Pakistani regime is a U.S. client and "ally in the war on terrorism." Aid might well be diverted by corrupt officials - as no doubt it was in countries affected by the tsunami as well - but to their own pockets, not to "fundamental islamic sects."

The truth is that even the imperialists are not as ignorant or as bigoted as "leftists" like Shatner. They did send some aid, and the U.S. did not oppose it...but they simply didn't care enough to send more.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Severian+Feb 17 2006, 08:49 AM--> (Severian @ Feb 17 2006, 08:49 AM)Even so, there was probably more talk than action that really benefitted those affected.[/b]

There is a bit of suspicion from "Western" Construction people - Engineers, Architects etc. - regarding what is actually happening with regards the re-building.

As far as I'm aware, certain affected countries have not let outside Engineers come and have a look at the reconstruction efforts. This in turn has raised a fair amount of scepticism as to what is actually happening and the standard to which the "New Builds" are being built.

However this is second hand information that I've heard from a couple of Civil Engineers and I don't therefore know the accuracy of these claims. Though I don't see any reason why they'd lie about this and they are the type of people who watch the "Construction News" carefully.


Originally posted by rioters bloc+--> (rioters bloc)i too have wondered why pakistan hasn't received much attention at all - it definitely hasn't been 'relative' to the number of people killed in each disaster.[/b]

I don't know how much aid was delivered, but from what I gather the landscape of the region has made it pretty difficult to deliver the aid.

Which could account for a part of the reason as to why the aid has been slow to come.

Plus, I'm pretty sure a section of the British Army has been there for some time.


[email protected]
The response by Bill Shatner (Comrade RAF renamed?), on the other hand, pretty clearly is a case of Islamophobia.

How did you work that one out?

He never stated that "all Muslims are jihadist fundamentalists" instead he said....


Bill Shatner
I would suspect that the majority of first world governments are concerned with two key issues: the first being that they have no guarantee that any money provided to Pakistan will actually get the the people who need it.

The odds are the money will actually end up in the hands of fundamental islamic groups that have no intention of rebuilding anything besides their battered jihadic sects.

Notice how he said the money would not get to "the people who need it" - average Pakistanis' - but rather to "groups" and "sects".

Honestly Severian, if you are going to try and mask your political gripes with members through claiming they hold certain views, at least try to do it when there is a tincy wincy bit of evidence in support of your claim.

Otherwise the "mask" will fall down and the people will see the "crusader" in his "true light".

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 07:49 PM
The response by Bill Shatner (Comrade RAF renamed?), on the other hand, pretty clearly is a case of Islamophobia. Ignorant assumption that all Muslims are jihadist fundamentalists. In fact, Pakistan is not Somalia, and the Pakistani regime is a U.S. client and "ally in the war on terrorism." Aid might well be diverted by corrupt officials - as no doubt it was in countries affected by the tsunami as well - but to their own pockets, not to "fundamental islamic sects."

The truth is that even the imperialists are not as ignorant or as bigoted as "leftists" like Shatner. They did send some aid, and the U.S. did not oppose it...but they simply didn't care enough to send more.
ah, i didn't even notice that post.

i&#39;m prepared to believe that he&#39;s just incredibly ignorant to think that &#39;fudamental islamic groups&#39; are so prevalent or powerful in pakistan that they&#39;d get their hands on all the aid :P ye, sometimes they kick up a bit of a fuss and riot over cartoons. but if he believes that that means they&#39;ve got power or anything, i doubt that he&#39;s done any reading or research on pakistan at all, other than from fox news <_<

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Bill [email protected] 16 2006, 08:51 PM
In addition to that, western nations are simply afraid of being labeled by the USA and its cohorts as being "soft on terrorism" by providing aid of any amount to non occupied middle eastern nations.
Pakistan is not in the Middle East.

Anyway, as Severian has mentioned, Musharraf is in Washington&#39;s pocket anyway.

[Vinny Rafarino]

It&#39;s good to see my critics are still up to their old games; All babble, no thought.


Originally posted by Severian+--> (Severian)The response by Bill Shatner (Comrade RAF renamed?), on the other hand, pretty clearly is a case of Islamophobia. [/b]

A phobia is an irrational and illogical fear.

I don&#39;t fear Islam at all, I detest it.

Just as I detest every other form of reaction and oppression; I will do everything in my miniscule amount of power to keep reminding the "left" they these are our enemies and should be treated as such.

Considering that my critics here would rather support reaction over fact just bcause my mane is attached to it shows the power that reactionary ideas coming from "respected comrades" can wield.

It also shows us who stand up against reaction that there is still plenty of work to be done.


In fact, Pakistan is not Somalia, and the Pakistani regime is a U.S. client and "ally in the war on terrorism." Aid might well be diverted by corrupt officials - as no doubt it was in countries affected by the tsunami as well - but to their own pockets, not to "fundamental islamic sects."


Please, my littlefriend, take a career in international politics. Your comprehension of of these matters is so poor that you just may force revolution through blind ignorance.


The truth is that even the imperialists are not as ignorant or as bigoted as "leftists" like Shatner.

You are right about one thing my boy, I am most definitely more bigoted against reaction than the Imperialists.

Why aren&#39;t you?


They did send some aid, and the U.S. did not oppose it...but they simply didn&#39;t care enough to send more.

No kidding, why do you think this thread is here?


Originally posted by Rioter&#39;s [email protected]
i&#39;m prepared to believe that he&#39;s just incredibly ignorant to think that &#39;fudamental islamic groups&#39; are so prevalent or powerful in pakistan that they&#39;d get their hands on all the aid tongue.gif ye, sometimes they kick up a bit of a fuss and riot over cartoons. but if he believes that that means they&#39;ve got power or anything, i doubt that he&#39;s done any reading or research on pakistan at all, other than from fox news

Since you really don&#39;t know me very well and since I have enjoyed some of your previous posts I will ignore the fact that you jumped all over horns just because young severian likes to try and twist my balls.

Now, it&#39;s been a few years since I have been in Pakistan but I doubt anything has changed all that much. When I was there, it was a nation ruled by the reactionary forces of Islam, from the Parliament to the people.

As a matter of fact, I and my friends were warned by Pakistani customs against entering the country for fear of the possibility that we could be kidnapped by Islamic fundanmentalist groups and held for ransom or even executed.

It was a real possibility, real enough for customs to try and talk you out of spending your money there.

Don&#39;t want to take my word for it friend?

No problem, go there and check it out yourself; I&#39;m sure a bi-sexual western radical woman in their country will go over like cake and ice-cream .


Intifada
Pakistan is not in the Middle East.

Is this the best you can do?

You can put one foot in Pakistan and the other in the Middle East so what&#39;s your point son?

Tell you what, perhaps if you remove the thought of Pakistan from your head you may not get confused when you think about the statement.

Most people don&#39;t need to go to such measures to aid their reading comprehension but hell, no one&#39;s going to judge you here.


Anyway, as Severian has mentioned, Musharraf is in Washington&#39;s pocket anyway.

That doesn&#39;t appear to have stopped Islamic fundamentalist sects from using Pakistan for all sorts of goodies.

Don&#39;t believe me?

Jump on the first plane with Rioter&#39;s Bloc and Severian and see for yourself.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by Bill [email protected] 18 2006, 03:24 AM
No problem, go there and check it out yourself; I&#39;m sure a bi-sexual western radical woman in their country will go over like cake and ice-cream .
its almost 4am and im falling asleep so i won&#39;t be able to make sense if i try andreply anyway, but, well, i went to pakistan at the start of 2004. our experences are ratyher differnt.

[Intifada]

(Bill Shatner)

Is this the best you can do?


Just correcting your mistake, kid.

Don&#39;t get pissy about it.

You should now try and learn from this mistake instead.


That doesn&#39;t appear to have stopped Islamic fundamentalist sects from using Pakistan for all sorts of goodies.

Don&#39;t believe me?

Jump on the first plane with Rioter&#39;s Bloc and Severian and see for yourself.


I&#39;ve "jumped" on planes to Pakistan many times.

I was last there a couple of years ago.

I should hopefully be visiting my friends and family again, this year.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

February 16, 2006
Editorial Observer
For Pakistan, American Aid Is All Guns, No Butter
By HELENE COOPER

LAHORE, Pakistan

Syed Jawad Ahsan&#39;s Valentine&#39;s Day this year was a heartbreaking
window into the box in which this country is trapped.

Around 10:30 on Tuesday morning, Mr. Ahsan, chief executive of Irfan
Textiles Pvt. Ltd., got into his car and headed for the factory just
outside town where his workers, some 5,000 of them, stitch and weave
underwear for Jockey. As he was leaving Lahore&#39;s outskirts, he saw
some boys in the middle of the road, setting fire to car tires. A
group of Sunni parties had called for yet another of the seemingly
never-ending protests against the Danish cartoon caricatures of the
Prophet Muhammad, and the boys had apparently decided that torching
tires on their own turf would teach the West a thing or two.

Mr. Ahsan threw his car into reverse and started to back away. But
behind him, another group had gathered, throwing rocks at a parked
car, breaking its windows and slashing its tires. Frustrated, Mr.
Ahsan turned left and made a quick exit, heading back to town. Using
his cellphone, he called and left a message that I should meet him at
his downtown office for our interview on Pakistan&#39;s textile industry.
"I think it&#39;s safer for us in town today," he said.

An hour later, we were drinking Pepsi and eating crackers in his
office in Lahore. Mr. Ahsan was visibly saddened. "Pakistan didn&#39;t
used to be like this," he said. "All this extremism that you see here
now is because of Afghanistan."

He meant the Afghanistan war that started in 1979, not the one that
came after Sept. 11. The way Mr. Ahsan sees it, Pakistan before 1979
was a much more open society, with wine bars in the cities and a
small measure of freedom. But when the Russians invaded Afghanistan,
America responded by arming, and largely creating, the Islamist
fighters who drummed up religious fire in their war to drive out the
Russians. Next door, Pakistan became a front-line state, and American
money flooded to the mujahedeen. Ever since, Pakistan has been home
to a growing cadre of fundamentalist Islamists, many of them bent on
jihad.

With the huge gap here between rich and poor, militants find young
boys with nothing to do easy prey. Mr. Ahsan can&#39;t fathom why
Americans aren&#39;t working on the economic conditions that breed
discontent.

"We don&#39;t need more of your F-16&#39;s," he said. "What we need is trade
in textiles. We need a free trade agreement, like the one you&#39;re
going to give Egypt, like the one you gave Jordan, like the one you
gave Morocco."

The United States agreed in 2005 to resume sales of F-16 fighter jets
to Pakistan. The sales had been suspended for more than a decade
because Pakistan began developing nuclear weapons. But Washington has
refused to grant a bigger and far more important concession:
duty-free access for Pakistani imports.

If there is a stronger case than Pakistan&#39;s for duty-free access, it
is certainly hard to find. This place is a breeding ground for Muslim
extremists, but it also has a population and government that has, by
and large, maintained cordial relations with America. Pakistan&#39;s
biggest industry is textiles, accounting for 45 percent of its
manufacturing jobs, and its biggest market is the United States.
Pakistani factories make everything from bras to shirts and sheets
for companies like Wal-Mart, Polo Ralph Lauren and Martha Stewart
Living Omnimedia.

Since Sept. 11, it&#39;s been an uphill battle for such Pakistani
companies. American buyers have been skittish about trusting their
orders to a place that looks like a war zone on TV. Meanwhile, other
countries, including China, Bangladesh and India, have been quick to
try to woo business away. The overwhelming belief here is that
without duty-free access to the U.S. market, the textile and apparel
industry here can&#39;t compete.

Mr. Ahsan says his knitwear exports are down 17 percent in the past
year alone, and he believes that Pakistan&#39;s knitwear industry - the
staple of its textile industry - is dying. This week, another
knitting factory in Lahore became a casualty: 1,000 jobs will be
eliminated, although the workers haven&#39;t yet been told.

It is the end of our interview, and Mr. Ahsan and I have spent as
much time talking about religion and why Muslims are so upset about
the cartoons as we have about trade and textiles. Reaching into his
back pocket, he pulled out a Muslim prayer book - he said a friend
had given it to him to help him get through the difficult times he is
facing as he tries to keep his business together.

He said he was waiting to see whether President Bush&#39;s visit next
month would produce any new American promises to help Pakistan on
trade, but he admits that if past is prologue, Pakistan will come
away empty-handed on what really counts. "Textile trade, not F-16&#39;s,
is the only thing the U.S. should do if at all U.S. wanted to mellow
extremism here," he said. "It must be employment."

I left him and headed to a Lahore suburb to meet some friends. About
a half-hour later, the mob of boys, now thousands strong, reached
Lahore&#39;s downtown area, which locals call the mall. They ransacked
around 500 cars, burned 75 motorcycles and 10 other vehicles, and
torched the Punjab Assembly. A bank security guard opened fire and
killed two boys. Three others were shot and injured.

The mob then turned to the business district, setting fire to a
Norwegian cellphone company&#39;s office and a KFC. Nestled between those
two buildings was an office belonging to Mr. Ahsan and his brother.
It, too, was burned down.

[Severian]

Originally posted by rioters [email protected] 17 2006, 07:01 AM
i&#39;m prepared to believe that he&#39;s just incredibly ignorant to think that &#39;fudamental islamic groups&#39; are so prevalent or powerful in pakistan that they&#39;d get their hands on all the aid
Well, yeah.

It&#39;s hard to distinguish between ignorance and bigotry...because to some extent they&#39;re the same thing. Ignorance is one of the main causes of any kind of prejudice....and prejudiced attitudes protect ignorance, making the ignorant unwilling to learn anything that might contradict their prejudices.

RAF/Shatner&#39;s ignorance is certainly well-protected, by whatever mechanism...not only does he not know anything, he doesn&#39;t want to know anything.

[Vinny Rafarino]

RAF/Shatner&#39;s ignorance is certainly well-protected, by whatever mechanism

The "mechanism" protecting my "ignorance" is experience.

Someday it should also be yours; I wouldn&#39;t hold my breath though if I were you.