Is Communism Harmful?

[Capitalist Lawyer]

The question you should be rather asking is: "Is communism harmful?"

The answer is most certainly yes.

What would you rather do with your life? Fight for the "revolution" (which is openly admitted by you people that it isn't on the radar screen anytime in the near future).

Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc.

It seems like the life that Redstar and other fundamentalist communists advocate seems to lead to a one-way, dead-end street. Characterized by despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society. Seriously, how many people do you guys relate to? There aren't too many communists running around so how exactly do you guys fit in? Can you only relate to communists, atheists?

I'm not endorsing fundamentalist religion or religion in particular, but I don't think communism and its belief system is the way to model one's life.

[Capitalist Lawyer]

It's an opiate. It's a diversion to keep people from seeing the truth, what's really going on; a way to blind the oppresed, to keep them in chains. Instead of giving people food, the clergy give them bibles.

That's right, you know everything and have all the answers. Since that's the case, why don't you share with the community what this "truth", that you speak of, really is? I'm anxious to hear your response.

Here's a concept that might help with your little ego problem. You might want to get aquainted with it.


Humility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humility)

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 15 2006, 09:47 PM




The question you should be rather asking is: "Is communism harmful?"

The answer is most certainly yes.

The answer is, this is spam and has nothing to do with the topic.


Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc.

We are proletarians, we have to have jobs, we have homes too. Some of us choose not to have families, thats a matter of preferance and not a necessity for having a "good life".


It seems like the life that Redstar and other fundamentalist communists advocate seems to lead to a one-way, dead-end street.

Fundementalism as defined by the little oxford dictionary,


strict adherence to traditional religious beliefs

Communism is not a religion, therefore there is no such thing as a fundamentalist communist.


Characterized by despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society.

Being normal is subjective. Cynicism? Well if you lived in shit youd complain too, no?


I'm not endorsing fundamentalist religion or religion in particular, but I don't think communism and its belief system is the way to model one's life.

Communism does not have a "belief" system. To believe is to have faith, something communists are opposed to.


Back to the topic, I agree with what Redstar has to say. Religion is the promotion of irrationality and should be stopped as soon as possible.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 16 2006, 01:47 AM










The question you should be rather asking is: "Is communism harmful?"

I've already asked myself that, and the answer was no.


The answer is most certainly yes.

You're trying make your opinion fact rather heavily here. Rather sensationalist.


What would you rather do with your life? Fight for the "revolution" (which is openly admitted by you people that it isn't on the radar screen anytime in the near future).

Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc.

You make it sound like a multiple choice quiz. I have loving, supportive parents, nice freinds, a relatively nice school, and a wonderful life. I also try to spread positive change in the long and short term. I'm a Socialist, and I have all I need.


It seems like the life that Redstar and other fundamentalist communists advocate seems to lead to a one-way, dead-end street. Characterized by despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society.

We're not depraved criminals, stop treating us as such.


Seriously, how many people do you guys relate to?

I'd rather have ten intelligent freinds than a thousand fools on my side, sir.


There aren't too many communists running around so how exactly do you guys fit in?

Conformists seldom make history, or any positive change in the world.


Can you only relate to communists, atheists?

Do you only communicate with Fascists and Capitalists? No. Why would we only relate to leftists?


I'm not endorsing fundamentalist religion or religion in particular, but I don't think communism and its belief system is the way to model one's life.

Your opinions don't mean shit. Actions are what matter.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Capitalist Lawyer
What would you rather do with your life? Fight for the "revolution" (which is openly admitted by you people that it isn't on the radar screen anytime in the near future).

Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc.

What makes you think that "having a life" is such a "terrific option"?

I am not without the powers of observation and it is not difficult to see what "having a life" under capitalism is like.

Even its cosmetic version on the dummyvision strikes me as pretty repulsive.

The reality is considerably worse!


It seems like the life that Redstar and other fundamentalist communists advocate seems to lead to a one-way, dead-end street. Characterized by despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society.

Yes, I will grant that a revolutionary outlook on life is not real "cheery"...especially in periods of reaction like the one we live in now.

But what would you have us do? Flop on our bellies before George W. Bush, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Ken Lay, or whomever your icons happen to be?

Or spend our lives looking for "the perfect scam"?

Then there's that "career" and the possibility of suck-cess. Something to really look forward to, eh?

Yes, revolutionaries are alienated from "normal people"...usually for excellent reasons.

We despise all of the "popular" superstitions of our era. Not just religion but also patriotism, employee loyalty, sexism, brand-name loyalty, status enhancing commodities, net wealth as a legitimate measure of human achievement, etc., etc., etc.

No wonder we're "alienated". :lol:

Put it this way: what most of the people in this world are doing right now is eating shit!

And however few our present numbers may be, we think that's a really lousy diet and would rather go hungry.


Seriously, how many people do you guys relate to?

Not very many. People who eat shit have very bad breath...and I try to avoid getting very close to them.


Can you only relate to communists, atheists?

Or people who are very close to those ideas. People who have already reduced their shit consumption to marginal levels.


I don't think communism and its belief system is the way to model one's life.

Certainly not yours!

You would make a miserable "revolutionary".

Stay "normal", please! :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Hiero]

Who says Communist can't have a good job and a family.

There are many anarchist who think they are revolutionaries because they do fuck all and live in shitty conditions brought on by themselves. But they are lifestle lefist and are not connected or attempt to connect with the masses, so they have no revolutionary potentional.

[Eoin Dubh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 12:31 PM
Who says Communist can't have a good job and a family.

There are many anarchist who think they are revolutionaries because they do fuck all and live in shitty conditions brought on by themselves. But they are lifestle lefist and are not connected or attempt to connect with the masses, so they have no revolutionary potentional.
Uh....what?
You slag yer comrades for what good reason?
There are many Anarchists who know they are revolutionaries because they do a fuck of a lot of good for the working class , whilst living in shite conditions brought on by Capitalist $$$$ fetishist landlords, and blood sucking bosses.
In fact , they are connected with and often do much more to connect with the working class, of which they are more than likely a part of, than many staid "Commie" blue blooded bourgeois class rebels, Are you one????
The revolutionary potential is palpable..... leave your Mercedes to feel it! :hammer: ;)

[*PRC*Kensei]

Offcourse communism is harmfull !

it's very harmfull to hollywood film$tar$ who speend 7000 on a new dre$ and it seems to be very harmfull to usa pre$ident$, but thats just a rumor...

[loveme4whoiam]

I don't see why you are attacking him Eoin, the operative words in his post were "they do fuck all".

If I sat on my ass in a hovel living off social benefits, I'd at least have the decency not to call myself a revolutionary. However, if I lived in a hovel living off social benfits while working hard to educate the people in the ways of Communism and Anarchism, then I'd justifiably call myself one. Which one of these people was Hiero slagging off Eoin, hmm? Save your anger for those who deserve it.

[Tungsten]

nate

Communism is not a religion,
That's debatable.

Cynicism? Well if you lived in shit youd complain too, no?
But the majority of communists aren't.

Communism does not have a "belief" system. To believe is to have faith, something communists are opposed to.
Again, debatable.
redstar2000

Yes, I will grant that a revolutionary outlook on life is not real "cheery"...especially in periods of reaction like the one we live in now.
How on earth this be called a "period of reaction". Reaction against what? Communism? There wasn't any revolution going on last time I checked, so how can there be a reaction against it?

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 11:18 AM
nate

Communism is not a religion,
That's debatable.
It really shouldn't be, as religion is an idealist line of thinking and communism concerns the structure of society... compatible terms?



Cynicism? Well if you lived in shit youd complain too, no?
But the majority of communists aren't.

Please do back up your assertions with facts or people might think you are a liar.



Communism does not have a "belief" system. To believe is to have faith, something communists are opposed to.
Again, debatable.

Again, not really. If you are a Marxist and thereby a materialist, there is no "belief system" for you. You can call yourself a communist or a Marxist, but if your worldview isn't, then you are a liar, not a reliable example. As always, you can call an apple an orange if you like, just look at any "communist" empire.

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Tungsten+--> (Tungsten)
Communism is not a religion That's debatable. [/b]

Let's debate it then, by all means.


Wikipedia
Religion (see etymology below) is commonly defined as a group of beliefs concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices, values, institutions and rituals associated with such belief. It is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system. In the course of the development of religion, it has taken many forms in various cultures and individuals.

Communists don't recognize the existence of the "supernatural, sacred, or divine" and want to abolish "the moral codes, practices, values, institutions and rituals associated with such belief."

We only acknowledge proven scientific facts as truth. How is now communism a religion?

For some younger, uneducated communist sympathisers it can be can ideology.
But for the serious, educated communists it's all science.




Communism does not have a "belief" system. To believe is to have faith, something communists are opposed to.

Again, debatable.

No, it isn't "debatable". Communists reject faith. We only trust science. What is "debatable" is whether scientific communism is right or wrong. If you want to debate that, go ahead, but don't confuse communism with religion.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I personally have a very happy, positive outlook on life. I am not poor, but when it comes to consumerism I do restrict myself heavily out of choice. My sense of self-satisfaction outweighs any perceived benifit from amassing material wealth.

I enjoy guitar, socialising, recreational drug use and the great outdoors as vices. I actually take a month or so trip at a time where I combine just these, and I do it every year.

In the real world I read a lot, and also work out, I strive for intellectual and physical development. Because I am not a whinging moron I have the ability to socialise with people from all walks of life, and I actually do so with people that are not political. As I myself influence my own life based on my political reasoning people eventually notice the difference, if they want to learn I will help as much as possible.

I have made several advances here with fair trade, and have left that largely up to some kids I hung around with for a while. I spend time in various circles, but I try to be interesting on various levels, as politics is not enough for some, and this has worked quite well.

I am content, actually more than content with my life, but I know where I want to go with it. If I was to become depressed and loose hope then I have lost. As it stands I will not be worn down or beaten, I will keep on smiling and enjoying myself. People are more accepting of my ideas because of this, as I don't always present them head on. My reasonable manipulation of arguments gives me an advantage over many that I discuss with, and so views are spread.

What people do on other levels will never really be discussed on a message board.

But no, communism isn't harmful, in fact I feel far more content knowing that there is a reason our world is screwed, and that there is a solution.

[violencia.Proletariat]

That's debatable.

Religion as defined by the Little Oxford Dictionary,


belief in super human controlling power, esp. in personal god or gods entitled to obedience; system of faith and worship

It is not debateable, end of fucking story! :angry:


But the majority of communists aren't.

Arent what? Poor? What did Marx say again? Oh yeah, being determines conciousness. Now while I feel idealism can make communism attractive to so called "rebelious teens", the dedicated communists here are by no means economically secure. We are proletarians.


Again, debatable.

It would be debateable for someone who argues without knowing what the fuck they are talking about. Communists make decisions based on material analysis, NOT FAITH!

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 16 2006, 01:47 AM
Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc.

Hardy-har. If all the people who "don't have a life" according to you were communists, the revolution would have happened a long time ago.

"despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society"... I'd say most people who function in this society are alienated and filled with despair and cyncacism, that's why there's road rage, alcoholism and you can get physically attacked for looking at a stranger the wrong way.

You wanna talk about cynacysm while you're argueing that "revolution's impossible so you best make peace with what we got and not try and fight for a better life?" Your argument is the most cynical thing I've heard all week!

[Capitalist Lawyer]

QUOTE (Capitalist Lawyer)
What would you rather do with your life? Fight for the "revolution" (which is openly admitted by you people that it isn't on the radar screen anytime in the near future).

Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc.



What makes you think that "having a life" is such a "terrific option"?

I am not without the powers of observation and it is not difficult to see what "having a life" under capitalism is like.

Even its cosmetic version on the dummyvision strikes me as pretty repulsive.

The reality is considerably worse!


QUOTE
It seems like the life that Redstar and other fundamentalist communists advocate seems to lead to a one-way, dead-end street. Characterized by despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society.



Yes, I will grant that a revolutionary outlook on life is not real "cheery"...especially in periods of reaction like the one we live in now.

But what would you have us do? Flop on our bellies before George W. Bush, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Ken Lay, or whomever your icons happen to be?

Or spend our lives looking for "the perfect scam"?

Then there's that "career" and the possibility of suck-cess. Something to really look forward to, eh?

Yes, revolutionaries are alienated from "normal people"...usually for excellent reasons.

We despise all of the "popular" superstitions of our era. Not just religion but also patriotism, employee loyalty, sexism, brand-name loyalty, status enhancing commodities, net wealth as a legitimate measure of human achievement, etc., etc., etc.

No wonder we're "alienated".

Put it this way: what most of the people in this world are doing right now is eating shit!

And however few our present numbers may be, we think that's a really lousy diet and would rather go hungry.


QUOTE
Seriously, how many people do you guys relate to?



Not very many. People who eat shit have very bad breath...and I try to avoid getting very close to them.


QUOTE
Can you only relate to communists, atheists?



Or people who are very close to those ideas. People who have already reduced their shit consumption to marginal levels.


QUOTE
I don't think communism and its belief system is the way to model one's life.



Certainly not yours!

You would make a miserable "revolutionary".

Stay "normal", please!


See what I mean? So, if any of you communists here are attending some form of higher education: drop out now!

If any of you have any relationship with your parents and siblings: Tell them to fuck off immediately!

If you have a good paying job but don't buy the rubbish of your workplace being "oppressive" and actually like your job: Quit now!

If you have a girlfriend or wife or significant other: Tell her (or him) to hit the road *****!

Tell your neighbors to fuck off and just communicate to other people via the internet.

Thanks for proving my point redstar, I know that I always can count on you to do that better than me.

[Seong]

Pffft.

Not everyone wants to have what you term a 'normal life.' You can have the nice house in the good neighbourhood, the sleek european styled car, the secure yet unfulfilling administrative job. But still every morning when you wake up you wonder how many of your anti-depressants it would take to o.d? Something is just not quite right...ho hum, ho hum what could it be? Oh! Cars and houses and mortgages, oh my! This is what society judges you by; the measure of your worth.

Bullshit.

Communism makes me happy, because I don't want to wake up every day wishing I was unconscious. I don't wonder if there's something terribly wrong with me, just because I don't want all the things everyone else does.

I could pursue a 'normal life,' but it'd just make me want to kill myself. I'd rather die, living for a revolution.

So does that just about answer your question? :lol:

[[email protected]]

Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc

WHY NOT HAVE A LIFE THAT'S EQUAL TO EVERYONE ELSES...
WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO BE GREATER THAN OTHERS..
WHY DOES A LAWYER HAVE TO BE COMFTERABLE,AND A MAN THATS
BREAKING HIS BACK ALL DAY BE STUGGLEING TO SUPORT HIS FAMILY



your little ego problem.

YOU CAPITALISTS ARE THE ONLY ONES WITH AN EGO PROBLEM..
ALWAYS TRYING TO BE GREATER THAN THE NEXT MAN!
LIFE SHOULDN'T BE A COMPETITION,IT SHOULD BE A BROTHERHOOD
OF MANKIND.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Capitalist Lawyer
So, if any of you communists here are attending some form of higher education: drop out now!

I did that...got tired of paying people a fortune to lie to me.


If any of you have any relationship with your parents and siblings: Tell them to fuck off immediately!

I did that too...and never regretted it.


If you have a good paying job but don't buy the rubbish of your workplace being "oppressive" and actually like your job: Quit now!

I did that lots of times. :lol:

Shit pay, shit work, and shit conditions. Capitalist "normality".


If you have a girlfriend or wife or significant other: Tell her (or him) to hit the road *****!

Communists are rarely attracted to potential mates that don't share our significant values. Someone whom you would think "normal" would send most of us screaming up the walls in boredom.


Tell your neighbors to fuck off and just communicate to other people via the internet.

One can get occasionally "lucky" in one's neighbors. I've never had any who were communists but I've had several who were atheists and a fair number who shared my general contempt for the existing social order.

I think I've done pretty good in that regard...certainly better than I ever expected.

Of course, you probably would disdain to live in the kinds of neighborhoods I prefer. :lol:

But the internet has indeed been a great boon to me personally; the opportunity to communicate with people who actually think at any hour of the day or night has indeed done wonders for me. I've learned more and felt younger in the past three years than in the previous 30 years! :D


Thanks for proving my point redstar, I know that I always can count on you to do that better than me.

Always happy to help. :)

Have a nice normal life. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[red team]

So, if any of you communists here are attending some form of higher education: drop out now!


Graduated in technical field and became a "Dilbert". Downsized from dot-com crash and is now working in "Apu's" Kwik-E mart. :lol:


If you have a good paying job but don't buy the rubbish of your workplace being "oppressive" and actually like your job: Quit now!


Had a good paying job using high technology to produce "rubbish", but it wasn't up to me to decide what project to work on. My fat, pointy-haired boss who is quite the induhvidual gets to decide these things. :lol:


If you have a girlfriend or wife or significant other: Tell her (or him) to hit the road *****!


Social life? What's this fun and exciting thing called a social life I keep hearing about? :lol:

[poetofrageX]

Being a communist doesn't nessecarily mean you cant get along with people who aren't communists. Since i go to a school with mostly upper middle class kids, most of my friends are very opposed to communism. There are a couple of people at my school who are communists and i hang out with most of them, and i've actually managed to coninvince a couple of my friends to support communism, and there are a few i've definately help move to the left. But for the most part, my friends are anti-communist. We usually have an argument every day or two for about ten to fifteen minutes, which is usually me and maybe 1 or 2 others vs. everyone else. We argue for ten minutes, usually until one of us says something stupid or funny, then we all laugh and forget politics for the day. We sometimes get pretty heated though, but we always relax eventually and go back to relaxing and stuff. It isn't impossible for a communist to get along with non-communists, as long as there are no nazi's involved. All u have to do is focus on things you have in common besides politics.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 16 2006, 02:47 AM
The question you should be rather asking is: "Is communism harmful?"
Nope.


The answer is most certainly yes.
Lol


What would you rather do with your life? Fight for the "revolution" (which is openly admitted by you people that it isn't on the radar screen anytime in the near future).

Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc.
By "etc", do you mean "only thinking about yourself, not giving a fuck if people are dying of hunger and thirst somewhere in Africa, when all you can think about is when the new Coldplay album is coming out"? I'll take the revolution, thanks.


It seems like the life that Redstar and other fundamentalist communists advocate seems to lead to a one-way, dead-end street.
It seems you're only one of the few who actually believes that.


Characterized by despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society.
:lol: :lol:

Don't project your life on mine. I have friends.


Seriously, how many people do you guys relate to?
Dunno, I never actually counted them. I'm not planning to either.


There aren't too many communists running around
Says you.


so how exactly do you guys fit in?
Easily?


Can you only relate to communists, atheists?
Finally you ask a question instead of selling your usual crap. No, I relate to more people than communists and/or atheïsts, but i still prefer them. And I can't get along with racist/ultrareligious scum. (Though we don't have a lot of religidiots around here)


I'm not endorsing fundamentalist religion or religion in particular, but I don't think communism and its belief system is the way to model one's life.
It's not a belief system, as someone already pointed out.

[*PRC*Kensei]

btw to lawyer:

why are you trying to convince us ? :P I dont think it will work anyway.

And why we have to talk about "communists" all the time, many of us are socialists...

And i got mony... i will have a job... girlfriend? meeeh, i'm thinking about your daughter.

Socialism thinks about "all"
Capitalism thinks about ? profit ? for me ? maby my fammily ? What ? half the world is starving ? not my problem
world's gonna be taken over by multinationals ? hehe, i work for them.
World's climate gonna change due to massive production and not accepting agrements ? i'm dead by then.
10% of the people in my own country poor? well it's their own faulth.


jep, you do have an easy life when you think like that.

[Orthodox Marxist]

The question you should be rather asking is: "Is communism harmful?"

Not a chance but your narrow mindedness is.



What would you rather do with your life? Fight for the "revolution" (which is openly admitted by you people that it isn't on the radar screen anytime in the near future).

I would prefer to fight for the revolution the idea of living in a mansion with more sport utility vehicles than I can count is rather sickening. I would much rather fight for the poor and oppressed people's of the world.



It seems like the life that Redstar and other fundamentalist communists advocate seems to lead to a one-way, dead-end street.

Really? It doesnt seem that way to me Redstar is a very Influencial figure and It seems to me he has achieved quite a bit for the people.




Characterized by despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society.

Just because you live in a basement and are forced to deal with your own paranoia
doesn't mean we should have to be subjected to it.



Seriously, how many people do you guys relate to?

Its likely a good deal more than yourself.



There aren't too many communists running around

More than you know as the masses get more and more disillusioned with the capitalist system our support only grows stronger.



Can you only relate to communists, atheists?

Nope while it is easier to relate to communists, anarchist's, and atheists we can generally relate to most people on some degree with the exception of the extreme right.

[Redeye]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 16 2006, 01:47 AM


What would you rather do with your life? Fight for the "revolution" (which is openly admitted by you people that it isn't on the radar screen anytime in the near future).

as the rich/poor divide, which capitalism fosters, increases so will the oncoming speed of the revolution.


Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc

I actually have all of the above despite the capitalist view that the working class should have a 'life' that involves working as much of the day as possible and nothing else for bugger all wages.


Seriously, how many people do you guys relate to? Can you only relate to communists, atheists?

My best friend is a very right wing religious capitalist. we often get together for a beer or 10 at the pub for a chat or a heated debate on politics

[Capitalist Lawyer]

I did that...got tired of paying people a fortune to lie to me.

Perhaps it was the time period you grew up in? Right now, you'll find plenty of leftist professors who you could probably agree with on many things.



I did that too...and never regretted it.

Well, you can't always get what you want and you have to accept the fact that nobody is perfect....even you.

Sorry for the cliches but they are true.



I did that lots of times.

Shit pay, shit work, and shit conditions. Capitalist "normality".

Sorry to hear that but I bet your work experiences could've been a lot worse than what they really were. And if they were, then you have nobody to blame except yourself and not the evil capitalist system.


Socialism thinks about "all"

Who says that "we" or "I" have an obligation to "all"?



Social life? What's this fun and exciting thing called a social life I keep hearing about?

Interesting point and I'm glad you brought it up. Could you please elaborate a little more?

I'd like to hear a communist's perspective on leisure in capitalist society and the types of people we (sort of) choose to associate with?

What does it mean to be "someone's friend" in the eyes of a communist? Are you guys able to trust anybody? If not, is there a valid reason for it? Can you blame yourself and others for being untrustworthy of people?

Are there really any "true friendships" in capitalism? Or are they just "business partnerships" or "stepping stones" on the way to that "good paying job"?

I'd like to hear your perspectives because, I must admit, I do find them fascinating.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Capitalist Lawyer
Are you guys able to trust anybody?

In carefully limited increments, I think. That is, I don't give anyone a "blank check" ever...but as I get to know people, I extend the "limits of trust" as they have shown trustworthiness.


Are there really any "true friendships" in capitalism? Or are they just "business partnerships" or "stepping stones" on the way to that "good paying job"?

That was my observation of "manager-types" in the days when I was employed. You'd sometimes actually see them fawning on one another one day...and a week later learn that one had neatly and cleverly put the knife in the back of the other and twisted it in good. :lol:

Remember when Ken Lay's (Enron) wife was whining about how "none of their good friends" would return Ken's phone calls? I believe her story! I think the closer you get to the top of the capitalist world, the more you'd find that "friendships" are entirely instrumental in nature.

On a very rare occurrence in my life, I found myself at...well certainly not an "A-list" or "B-list" gathering but maybe a "C-list" party -- it was in a lavish building on Manhattan's Central Park West, so you get the idea.

So I'm standing by the bar working on my first drink and a woman comes up to me and says, "Are you someone I should know?" :lol:

You could say, I suppose, that "that's New York City -- everybody's like that there". But I saw that sort of behavior much lower on the food chain in San Francisco and Chicago and some other places along the way.

Only in a place like New Orleans did I see people who did not appear "career-oriented" in that sense...even when they were low-level managers.

But, of course, New Orleans was a "backwater" and now no longer exists. :(

Late capitalism in the U.S. seems to be characterized by not-so-much "career orientation" but rather "career desperation". :o

I'm sure glad I'm retired. :D

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You could say, I suppose, that "that's New York City -- everybody's like that there".

Maybe in downtown Manhattan. Most people in NYC are struggling to survive.

[poetofrageX]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 20 2006, 04:43 AM
What does it mean to be "someone's friend" in the eyes of a communist? Are you guys able to trust anybody? If not, is there a valid reason for it? Can you blame yourself and others for being untrustworthy of people?
what kind of idiotic question is that? Friendship and trust are individual charecteristics, not all communists have a uniform view of friendship. There are some communists who have a hard time getting along with anyone who isn't a communist, but those are usually the kind of people who cant get along with anyone who disagrees with them, regardless of the subject they disagree upon. There are paranoid people who find it hard to trust others, no and those people have trouble trusting no matter what their political beliefs are. Are you telling me that all capitalists have a universal view of trust and friendship?

[Seong]

What does it mean to be "someone's friend" in the eyes of a communist? Are you guys able to trust anybody? If not, is there a valid reason for it? Can you blame yourself and others for being untrustworthy of people?

I choose my friends or they choose me, based upon common ideas and interests, similar senses of humour. I am slow to trust people, but I was like that before I was a Communist. As poetofragex said it depends upon the individual and how they were raised - not upon their political views. Communists are people too you idiot.

But this has gotten a little off topic. There are people here from a range of generations arguing against you, so I don't think it's an age thing.

What other 'evidence' do you have to support you claims? I would say that it is actually Capitalism that is bad for people. All this guff I hear from cappies about how Communist/Socialist collectivisation destroys individuality...pffft! Does the constant stream of popular advertising do anything less than support the homogenisation of the masses into various groups of consumers?

[вор в законе]

Well Communism is harmful... for the rulling class. :D

[Orthodox Marxist]

Well Communism is harmful... for the rulling class

Yes if we succeed they may actually have to treat their workers fairly for once.

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by Libertarian [email protected] 26 2006, 04:33 PM

Well Communism is harmful... for the rulling class

Yes if we succeed they may actually have to treat their workers fairly for once.
They won't "have" workers. They will be part of the group of workers.

[violencia.Proletariat]

They will be part of the group of workers.

Probably not. They will probably either flee to one of the "new capitalist" countries, or get shot. :)

[anomaly]

I plan on going to college and then graduate school. I just know to take what I hear with a grain of salt. I think college will be much more enjoyable and beneficial since I've developed a communist perspective before going.

I also rather enjoy most people here in this capitalist society of ours. Of course, I'm not acquainted with any true 'capitalists', so perhaps my opinion will change as my life progresses. But, I tend to find that it's not the people in this society that sucks...it's the system that sucks.

[Iroquois Xavier]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 17 2006, 04:02 PM

QUOTE (Capitalist Lawyer)
What would you rather do with your life? Fight for the "revolution" (which is openly admitted by you people that it isn't on the radar screen anytime in the near future).

Or actually "have a life"? A good paying career/job, home, family....etc.



What makes you think that "having a life" is such a "terrific option"?

I am not without the powers of observation and it is not difficult to see what "having a life" under capitalism is like.

Even its cosmetic version on the dummyvision strikes me as pretty repulsive.

The reality is considerably worse!


QUOTE
It seems like the life that Redstar and other fundamentalist communists advocate seems to lead to a one-way, dead-end street. Characterized by despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society.



Yes, I will grant that a revolutionary outlook on life is not real "cheery"...especially in periods of reaction like the one we live in now.

But what would you have us do? Flop on our bellies before George W. Bush, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Ken Lay, or whomever your icons happen to be?

Or spend our lives looking for "the perfect scam"?

Then there's that "career" and the possibility of suck-cess. Something to really look forward to, eh?

Yes, revolutionaries are alienated from "normal people"...usually for excellent reasons.

We despise all of the "popular" superstitions of our era. Not just religion but also patriotism, employee loyalty, sexism, brand-name loyalty, status enhancing commodities, net wealth as a legitimate measure of human achievement, etc., etc., etc.

No wonder we're "alienated".

Put it this way: what most of the people in this world are doing right now is eating shit!

And however few our present numbers may be, we think that's a really lousy diet and would rather go hungry.


QUOTE
Seriously, how many people do you guys relate to?



Not very many. People who eat shit have very bad breath...and I try to avoid getting very close to them.


QUOTE
Can you only relate to communists, atheists?



Or people who are very close to those ideas. People who have already reduced their shit consumption to marginal levels.


QUOTE
I don't think communism and its belief system is the way to model one's life.



Certainly not yours!

You would make a miserable "revolutionary".

Stay "normal", please!


See what I mean? So, if any of you communists here are attending some form of higher education: drop out now!

If any of you have any relationship with your parents and siblings: Tell them to fuck off immediately!

If you have a good paying job but don't buy the rubbish of your workplace being "oppressive" and actually like your job: Quit now!

If you have a girlfriend or wife or significant other: Tell her (or him) to hit the road *****!

Tell your neighbors to fuck off and just communicate to other people via the internet.

Thanks for proving my point redstar, I know that I always can count on you to do that better than me.
The asylum has had a breakout! :wacko:

[ItalianCommie]

It seems like the life that Redstar and other fundamentalist communists advocate seems to lead to a one-way, dead-end street. Characterized by despair, cynicism, and alienation from most normal, functioning people and society.
Pfffff. You sure don't know what being a communist is all about.

In my almost 17 year-long-life I've had quite a few girlfriends. Believe me. :lol:


There aren't any communists about the place, so how do you guys fit in?

Half my fucking school is communist. We organize rallies in the city, we occupy the schools yearly and engulf the schools with debates monthly, we occupy trains to reach our comrades demonstrating in Rome, Milan, Venice ecc,

You can say the italian media kind of backfired. It all happened about three years ago, at the rally for the anniversary of the Liberation of Italy. Do you know who was in front of President Ciampi, commemorating the Italian Resistance?

Something like 50000 Reds showed up, with hundreds of red flags flying high in front of the Viminale, the President's offices.

Suddenly the media, the premier, the right, all started shitting in their pants saying"Where did they come from? Didn't we officially bury them in the early 1990s?". Then the premier started seeing Reds all over. Sounded like McCarthy. He said that because the center left is allied with the communists, 85% of all journalists, judges, cooperatives are communist(all pure demagogy. Luckily it's backfired and now the excommunists of the old PCI, now PDS, are joining in our ranks again)


Can you only relate to communists, atheists?

No. I'm currently in a loving reationship with a catholic believer. She's to me some of the sweetest girls I might ever meet, I care about her, she cares about me, we have fun, we respect each other. I love her, and she loves me.


Or people who are very close to those ideas.

It certainly is easier to relate with other comrades, rather than with some selfish born rich person.


Then there's that "career" and the possibility of suck-cess. Something to really look forward to, eh?

Yep. But I don't. I don't need piles of money to feel satisfied at the expense of the Third World.


But what would you have us do? Flop on our bellies before George W. Bush, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Ken Lay, or whomever your icons happen to be?

Errr... I do. In laughter! :lol:

I don't know if I should laugh or cry at their spraying shit out of their mouths. :(



We despise all of the "popular" superstitions of our era. Not just religion but also patriotism, employee loyalty, sexism, brand-name loyalty, status enhancing commodities, net wealth as a legitimate measure of human achievement, etc., etc., etc.

Viva la Rivoluzione! Bandiera rossa trionferà! Viva l'Internazionale!


And however few our present numbers may be, we think that's a really lousy diet and would rather go hungry.

There may be few commies in anglosaxon countries, yet all I know is that in Western Europe we are constantly on the rise.

[chuq]

yawn. mr capitalist lawyer--the reason you worry about this question is there would be no need for bottom feeders in communism. you seem to have the ego prob, most communist i know are concerned with is good for a whole class, not just a greedy individual.

[red team]

I did that lots of times.

Shit pay, shit work, and shit conditions. Capitalist "normality".


Sorry to hear that but I bet your work experiences could've been a lot worse than what they really were. And if they were, then you have nobody to blame except yourself and not the evil capitalist system.


Starting with all that personal responsibility crap again? It doesn't seem all that relevant to me to talk of personal responsibility in a system where market value is more important than utility. The utility of a product is incidental. Simply look at the stupid, useless crap that is sold at your local supermarket including dangerous, addictive products. I suppose you value the "personal resposibility" of criminals also. :lol: Their "economic activities" keep the economy going so I would suppose they are "valuable" in a sick, twisted sort of way. :lol:




Socialism thinks about "all"

Who says that "we" or "I" have an obligation to "all"?


There is such a thing called civic responsibility, but beyond that no person in the world except lone hunters are entirely self sufficient. I doubt even you would desire the life of a lone hunter. No using firearms to hunt either. That's a product of organized society.

However, I do see your point that most people are unwilling to take on the responsibilities of those who are either incompetent or are unwilling to be responsible for themselves, but that just leads to the other question of whether the Capitalist economic system allows people who are willing to take responsibility for themselves and who are competent to have the right to do so. Well, does it? Is there are law mandating the right of workers who are willing and able to be productive in a utilitarian sense to divert available resources so they can generate a surplus in quantifiable material wealth?

Furthermore, would it be morally acceptable to deprive less able people of critical necessities like basic shelter and food if productive technologies employed by those who work generate material surpluses in excess of what could possibly be consumed by those who work? Let say productive technologies magnify the material output of a worker to 5 times more than can possibly be consumed by the working population. Should we throw away production because of the "moral" outrage we feel for those who are less able to work? At what point does this wasting of production becomes unacceptable? 10 x consumption amount, 20 x consumption amount? 100 x consumption amount? It seems that wasting of production has more to do with personal, subjective gripes about "fairness" than rational thinking.