Communism Vs. Socialism

[STN]

Hey,
From what I have hear, i am a socialist.
But what really is the difference in socialism and communism?

[Floyce White]

STN, again, please see the WEBSITE >> button at the bottom of my post.

[Jadan ja]

Socialism is a period between the abolishment of capitalism (in revolution), but before communism. There are many differences. During a period of socialism, state still exists, while communism is a stateless society. While communism is "from everybody according to abilities, to everyone according to needs," while socialism is "acording to person's work." Socialism can be representative democracy, while communism is direct democracy...

[Hiero]

Communism has no form of democracy. Democracy exist while there is states and classes.

[KC]

See my blog for an entry on what socialism is.

[nickdlc]

Marx used the word's socialism and communism interchangeably. This myth that marx advocated state socialism is complete bullshit. go to www.marxmyths.org

[JKP]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 07:48 PM
Communism has no form of democracy. Democracy exist while there is states and classes.
Are you retarded?

Communism is democracy in its highest form.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by JKP+Feb 16 2006, 09:54 PM--> (JKP @ Feb 16 2006, 09:54 PM)
[email protected] 15 2006, 07:48 PM
Communism has no form of democracy. Democracy exist while there is states and classes.
Are you retarded?

Communism is democracy in its highest form. [/b]
Although I agree, I'd rather you not use such language. It's really offensive, and you are too intelligent to use common insults.

[anomaly]

Communism is a stateless, classless society with production for use. Meanwhile, socialism is the dictatorship of the proletariat; it is the transition between the end of the revolution and the beginning of communism. I believe this transition period will overlap with the beginning of communist society, as the first communes may be set up during the revolution, in areas with little or no fighting. Socialism may just be a statement of legitimacy for disposing of the bourgeois class, or it could be a means of restoring order to large areas, with representative government similar to that of the Paris Commune.

Also, I completely agree with JKP that communism is democracy in its highest form.

EDITED: Lazar, you caught my typo.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 03:48 AM
Communism has no form of democracy. Democracy exist while there is states and classes.
Bullshit alarm.

As has been said. Communism is Ultra-democratic.

[KC]

Communism has no form of democracy. Democracy exist while there is states and classes.


Hiero what the hell is this? Communism is directly democratic.


See my blog for an entry on what socialism is.

I guess I should've linked to the entry. Here. (https://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=blog&id=10051&entry=301&action2=perma)


Marx used the word's socialism and communism interchangeably. This myth that marx advocated state socialism is complete bullshit. go to www.marxmyths.org

Marx called communism "scientific socialism". What is referred to as the "dictatorship of the proletariat" we call socialism.


Communism is a stateless, classless society with production for profit.

Communism isn't production for profit. It's production for use by the community.

[nickdlc]

Marx called communism "scientific socialism". What is referred to as the "dictatorship of the proletariat" we call socialism.
Yes, so he did use the words interchangably. Marx in the critique of the gotha program (the work were he talks most indepth on what he thought communism would look like) thought there would be a lower and higher stage of communism after the dictatorship of the proletariat.

To me there is nothing economical about dictatorship of the proletariat because it is precisely when we are smashing the state and so it is a political transition period where the proletariat is instituting the lower phase of communism but it is not itself an economic mode of production. The lines between these periods will be blurry obviously.

This is why bolsheviks called russia's state as socialism because they had already gone through the political transition. They could call this socialism because this was the first time in history marxists had succeeded in taking power and so it took time before people studied the situation in russia and came up with theories like state capitalism, totalitarian state economy, degenerated workers state etc.. to explain why russia was not living up to the ideals of socialism,.


Communism has no form of democracy. Democracy exist while there is states and classes.

Calm down people i think he means capitalist democracy.

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 03:16 AM
Hey,
From what I have hear, i am a socialist.
But what really is the difference in socialism and communism?
Marx used communism and socialism interchangeably. In connection to the russian revolution the socialists/communists were divided into two camps: those who advocated reformism called themselves "socialists" while those who believed in the necessity of revolution called themselves "communists".

Some of the communists, the bolsjeviks, now started using "socialism" as a term for a transitional period between capitalism and communism, and it became quite accepted within the second international (I actually think the word have been used in this sence even before the bolsjeviks).



Summary.
Socialism can mean:
1: The same thing as communism
2: Reformism
3: A transitional stage between capitalism and communism.

[Hiero]

No im not talking about bourgeios(capitalist) democracy.

I think Comrade_Raf or that guy who had Ho Chi Minh's pitcture as his avator for a long time, awhile back explained this. I to thought that Communism was the highest form of democracy. I will do my best to explain it.

Under capitalism you have bourgeoisie democracy. Under Socialism you have Proletariat dictarship as well as democracy for the Proletariat. Wherever a State exists there is democracy for which class controls the state. Wherever people need to be elected for position, wherever there is centralism, where there is representatives etc. So when the state withers away so does democracy and you have a direct control of things.

There is a quote by either Marx, Engels or Lenin that explains the whitering away of the state, im sure some better read comrades may be able to link the quote.

[Zero]

Democracy as in Consensus, not Democracy as in Republic. ;)

[Jadan ja]

Wherever people need to be elected for position, wherever there is centralism, where there is representatives etc.

But democracy is not necessary a representative democracy. It can also be a direct democracy.


So when the state withers away so does democracy and you have a direct control of things.

There is a quote by either Marx, Engels or Lenin that explains the whitering away of the state, im sure some better read comrades may be able to link the quote.

I think I know what are you talking about. It was written by Lenin in State and Revolution:


Communism alone is capable of providing really complete democracy, and the more complete it is, the sooner it will become unnecessary and wither away of its own accord.

I think he wants to say that majority and minority (if society is classless) will not anymore be in any kind of conflict, so democracy will become uneccesary as a rule of majority over minority.

I think that he is trying to say something like that, but please correct me if there is a better explanation of this.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by STN+Feb 16 2006, 02:16 AM--> (STN @ Feb 16 2006, 02:16 AM)Hey,
From what I have hear, i am a socialist.
But what really is the difference in socialism and communism?[/b]
Without getting bogged down in the democracy issue – if someone says that you are socialist it means that you’re political leanings are left of centre. This includes both communism (Marxism and anarchism) and social-democracy (think Labour parties). The difference between the two is that all communists are revolutionary while most socialists are not.

Socialism can also refer to the phase between capitalism and communism. Marx referred to this as the “dictatorship of the proletariat”.


Jadan ja
I think I know what are you talking about. It was written by Lenin in State and Revolution
Lenin was quoting Engels in that passage of State & Revolution

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 07:06 PM
Yes, so he did use the words interchangably. Marx in the critique of the gotha program (the work were he talks most indepth on what he thought communism would look like) thought there would be a lower and higher stage of communism after the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Indeed.

However, I must point out (for those who are not aware of this) that Lenins socialism and Marx' lower stage of communism is not the same thing.

Lenins lower stage of communism (which he called socialism) means that the working class takes power over the existing process of production through a (workers) state.

For Marx, the lower stage of communism was something completly different. According to Marx, this stage is synonymous with the free association of producers, the abolition of the division between producers and means of production, the abolition of the property relations as such. According to Marx, there is no such thing as a lower communist stage with a state, commodity production and wage labour.