What to do with Meth

[which doctor]

Meth is a hard drug, one of the worst on the street today. Although just one puff on the meth pipe can keep you high all day, the cons down the road outweigh the initial pros. I've seen first hand what it can do to communities, living in a manufacturing and farm town in the midwest.

I just watched a documentary on Meth on PBS and I began wondering what your thoughts were on this dangerous drug. It is worse then other drugs like Marijuana and LSD.

We couldn't really 'ban' it, so what would we do about it. Would its use naturally decline, or will the people need to step in?

[GoaRedStar]

What do you mean it isnt nearly as bad ?
This drug is more addictive then heroin and cocaine

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood
I've seen first hand what [meth] can do to communities, living in a manufacturing and farm town in the midwest.

From what I've read, it seems to me that modern capitalism has done far greater damage to communities like yours than all the drugs -- legal and illegal -- put together.

Moreover, it is likely that the "bad effects" of meth are mostly due to the fact that it's illegal.

The great Christian "War on Sin" has wrecked more lives than all the narcotic and addictive drugs put together.

After the revolution, that war is over!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[violencia.Proletariat]

I would expect a decline in the use of this drug. But appropriate facilities would be made for its production because from my knowledge it is very dangerous to make (explosions, contaminates the air around it). I saw a program on it last night that says it changes the way your brain feels pleasure or something to that extent, but I'm not one to say if thats accurate. Maybe a brain surgery for those who want to quit?

[YSR]

Yeah, this is serious shit around us folks in the Midwest.

I think much of the problem comes from the ease of production coupled with the really cheap price for it. I would presume that if we legalized more drugs, the prices would drop enough that it might be less profitable to produce meth and the low price of meth may not be so comparitable low.

Is there any serious economic research on the market impact of legalizing drugs under the current capitalist system?

[Tekun]

Due to the severity of the physical/biological effects of the drug, I think it would be wise for the ppl to intervene and not allow this poison to deteriorate the lives of other human beings

[which doctor]

What do you mean it isnt nearly as bad ?
This drug is more addictive then heroin and cocaine

I meant to say that it was worse than those other drugs, edit made.



Moreover, it is likely that the "bad effects" of meth are mostly due to the fact that it's illegal.

I disagree. I heard reports of young children in the household being raped while there parents were high in the drug.


I saw a program on it last night that says it changes the way your brain feels pleasure or something to that extent, but I'm not one to say if thats accurate.

I think we watched the same program.


Yeah, this is serious shit around us folks in the Midwest.

Fuck yes!


Due to the severity of the physical/biological effects of the drug, I think it would be wise for the ppl to intervene and not allow this poison to deteriorate the lives of other human beings

I kinda agree, we can't really outlaw the drug because that would be too authoritan and restricting the freedoms of the people.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 16 2006, 12:30 AM
I kinda agree, we can't really outlaw the drug because that would be too authoritan and restricting the freedoms of the people.
This is pretty much the bottom line. There is every cause for discussing with people, and trying to convince them otherwise, but it remains their choice.

Remember that much of what you hear about drugs is supposed to turn you off them, and in part acts as a self fulfilling prophecy. If heroin wasn't the down and outs drug in the U.K. I bet so many down and outs wouldn't use it.

The problem is not the drug use itself. The problems arising from capitalism, and the fact that it is illegal are. Also the sub-culture around it does not help. This is what makes drugs far more addictive, and an integral part of any user's life. Address the issue of the sub-culture, capitalism and its legality and you take away most of the reasons why it is a problem, or even used.

[BuyOurEverything]

I disagree. I heard reports of young children in the household being raped while there parents were high in the drug.

Anecdotal, heresay, and no implication of causality.


I saw a program on it last night that says it changes the way your brain feels pleasure or something to that extent, but I'm not one to say if thats accurate.

Well, yes, somewhat. Every activity you do repeatedly changes the pathways in your brain. Drugs included.

I think thed major problem with meth, as someone has already pointed out is its relatively cheap cost.

[which doctor]

Meth Mouth:

http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/images/050818_closeup02.jpg

[BuyOurEverything]

I know plenty of methheads and ex-methheads and none of them have teeth like that. I'm guessing the closest you've ever gotten to someone who does 'hard drugs' is watching them in an anti-drug movie.

[Nathe]

I think psychedelics play a major part in what we do, but having said that, I feel that if somebody's going to experiment with those things they really need to educate themselves about them. People just taking the chemicals and diving in without having any kind of preparation about what they're about to experience tend to have no frame of reference, so they're missing everything flying by and all these new perspectives. It's just a waste. They reach a little bit of spiritual enlightenment, but they end up going, 'Well, now I need that drug to get back there again.' The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug.
an interesting quote by maynard james keenan... an interesting insight on drugs like meth, or pot, or LSD, or any other psychedelic...

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 05:10 AM
I know plenty of methheads and ex-methheads and none of them have teeth like that. I'm guessing the closest you've ever gotten to someone who does 'hard drugs' is watching them in an anti-drug movie.
Although most meth users don't have teeth like that, I think that FOB's intention is to show the negative or harmful side effects which this drug produces

Because u must agree that taking this drug has some physical/biological side effects which deteriorate the human body over time

I mean all of us agree that it should be legalized, but there is no doubt that a drug as harmful and lethal to humans, should be deterred by society

[piet11111]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 16 2006, 02:24 AM
It's legal in Holland right? How's it working out there?
all drugs are considered illegal in the netherlands.

but the sale of cannabis in coffeeshops (in 5 gram portions) wont be prosecuted.
this info is from the police website so it might be very different on the streets.
afterall i know drugs like certain mushrooms are also sold in coffeeshops and it all depends on how dried those mushrooms are.

the average cop on the street doesn't give a damn what you are using aslong as you are not bothering poeple or dealing.

to my knowledge about the drug scene there is no real problem when compared to the other nations.

[vox_populi]

Actually, Holland has less problems with "hard" drug abuse than most other countries.
How do you lower the amount of sexually transmitted diseases in a country?
Do you ban sexual relations?
Do you forbid people to openly discuss it?

Or do you educate the people about how to do it safe?
Sexual education in schools, hand out free condoms and so on.

The way to lower problems with drugs is to de-mystify it, educate the masses about the real effects, teach people how to use it responsibly, and start selling it in controlled enviorments. Like at a pharmacist. Tax it and use the tax money for health care, and clean needles and stuff like that.
Most heroinists die from infection or blood diseases. Because they're alienated and forced to take the drug in dirty enviorments.

But I think that must drug addicts takes drug because of an inability to deal with this sick capitalist society.
After the revolution, people will find it easier to live a good life, they will find more meaning in life...and ultimately people won't need drugs anymore...because they're already living in the perfect world :D

[Delirium]

As much as i think that meth is the vilest substance on earth, banning it is an unacceptable infringment a persons right to make thier own decisions.

As previously argued, this a problem caused and perpetuated by capitalism and hopefully it will disappear with it.

[BuyOurEverything]

Because u must agree that taking this drug has some physical/biological side effects which deteriorate the human body over time

Obviously, but that was just misleading and for shock value only. I could come up with some pretty vile pictures of car crashes and then rant and moralize about how driving turns you into a pile of mush.


I mean all of us agree that it should be legalized

I don't think 'all of us' do.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm embarassed to say I was flipping through the TV stations the other day and I was mesmerized by a few minutes of the show "COPS".

Anyway, the pigs were bustin into this house full of meth users and the cop goes "How come everytime I get a call out here to deal with you rednecks, meth is involved?"

And this old lady (she could have been in her 40s, cos meth really does a number on how old people look) replies: "Maybe because all us 'rednecks' have to get jobs as truck-drivers and drive all night. Maybe because I'm a waitress and have to work all night".

I fell off my chair laughing when she told off that pig.

In modern class society, meth, crack, tobacco, or spirits arn't the root of these problems... class society is the problem. I know many people who sold drugs at one time or another and when I was making $7 and hour I kinda thought I was crazy not to join them. If people had decent jobs and places to live, there would be no reason to push hard drugs at all. If people wern't under constant stress, then they would be a lot less likely to abuse drugs.

I don't think a worker society would have "legal and illegal" drugs. If abuse of drink and drugs was still prevalent, then healthcare could probably treat the majority of cases.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 07:44 PM
I know many people who sold drugs at one time or another and when I was making $7 and hour I kinda thought I was crazy not to join them. If people had decent jobs and places to live, there would be no reason to push hard drugs at all. If people wern't under constant stress, then they would be a lot less likely to abuse drugs.
I hear that. For a while I was working for £5 an hour before tax, often about £200 for 6 days (late nights) work. At that time I thought fuck the money, and invested it all in pot, I used to double my wages and supply myself for as much heavy smoking as I wanted. The job was a front and a thing to do after a while. I cut down hours, because I would make better cash dealing, and I never had any hastle doing it, my social standing in certain circles also increased.

I am long out of that now though, it got risky and friends got raided. I wouldn't advocate it, but I do understand it.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 12:10 AM
I know plenty of methheads and ex-methheads and none of them have teeth like that. I'm guessing the closest you've ever gotten to someone who does 'hard drugs' is watching them in an anti-drug movie.
You would be wrong. Among other people I've encountered in my short time, my aunt has had meth problems. Of course not all meth heads have teeth like that, but I've talked to dentists who have seen people with meth mouth. They said they were horrified when they first saw it, they almost couldn't even work on the persons mouth.

[BattleOfTheCowshed]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 15 2006, 10:32 PM
It is worse then other drugs like Marijuana and LSD.

Considering that neither Marijuana and LSD are not addictive, have very few (in the case of LSD, none) bad medical effects, and many people find them insightful tools to explore the psyche, that isnt saying much.

[Tekun]

Obviously, but that was just misleading and for shock value only. I could come up with some pretty vile pictures of car crashes and then rant and moralize about how driving turns you into a pile of mush.

He probably did do it for show effect, your right
But car crashes most of the time happen by accident, though recklessness often plays a role
Somehow I doubt that u could accidently shoot up meth, or recklessly snort meth
Therefore comparing drugs and accidents, doesn't quite add up



I don't think 'all of us' do.

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion
But from everyone's input, 'we' all agree it should be legalized, despite its obvious lethality

[vox_populi]

Originally posted by BattleOfTheCowshed+Feb 17 2006, 06:21 AM--> (BattleOfTheCowshed @ Feb 17 2006, 06:21 AM)
Fist of [email protected] 15 2006, 10:32 PM
It is worse then other drugs like Marijuana and LSD.

Considering that neither Marijuana and LSD are not addictive, have very few (in the case of LSD, none) bad medical effects, and many people find them insightful tools to explore the psyche, that isnt saying much. [/b]
Is LSD completely safe?

[dopediana]

unless you go apeshit. i know a kid who ate 6 hits and went to a show. the folks at the bar didn't want to give him water even though he was crying out for it. by the time the ambulance came, he was crying out for world peace. he was still tripping face 3 days later when he came out of his state of sedation.

[BattleOfTheCowshed]

Originally posted by vox_populi+Feb 17 2006, 11:13 AM--> (vox_populi @ Feb 17 2006, 11:13 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 06:21 AM

Fist of [email protected] 15 2006, 10:32 PM
It is worse then other drugs like Marijuana and LSD.

Considering that neither Marijuana and LSD are not addictive, have very few (in the case of LSD, none) bad medical effects, and many people find them insightful tools to explore the psyche, that isnt saying much.
Is LSD completely safe? [/b]
Physically yes. You would have to take like 100 hits or somewhere thereabouts to overdose on it, and your body would probably start vomiting or something far before that to prevent you from getting that far. Of couse, as the previous poster noted, you can have some disturbing (mental) experiences which could affect you negatively, especially if you do it a lot or are already mentally unstable. With that said, I also doubt someone tripped for 3 days, 6 hits is A LOT, but not completely insane, I've occasionally read of people taking more, and tripping for more than like 16 hours is highly abnormal. Chances are he had some kinda psychological or nervous breakdown and kept freaking out for 3 days, not that he was literally tripping.

[vox_populi]

I heard that someone from Pink Floyd got his whole life destroyed by an LSD psychosis...he hasn't really spoken for like 30 years...

[Winter]

I'm for letting the individual decide what is right for him/herself. But, meth is not only a self destructive force, but a society destructive force. Yes, capitalism has alot to do with it, but when people are addicted, they're addicted, capitalism or no capitalism. Meth poses a threat to work. I know I wouldn't be wanting to work the fields with some cracked out animated junkie by my side helping me work a dangerous piece of machinery. Meth is in a category all it's own, it cannot be compared to weed or shrooms/lsd. I would like to think a user of meth would intelligently know when to use it, but c'mon, the stuff is like 90% addicting, a meth user would wanna be on it all the time, even while at work, putting my safety at risk. It must be abolished. No good can come out of a chemical the Nazi's created.
~ Winter

[Hegemonicretribution]

Yes, but do you have the right to dictate to an individual what they can and can't do? Some would argue that toking on a joint means you will end up hooked on meth. This may be the case from time to time, and that minority should be treated medically, however it is not always the case.

Ask one of the users here that have tried it, ask me if you want. Personally I never really enjoyed it, and it isn't my scene, but each to their own.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 11:49 AM
I heard that someone from Pink Floyd got his whole life destroyed by an LSD psychosis...he hasn't really spoken for like 30 years...
That would be Syd Barrett, but I think he was kinda fucked up before he started taking drugs.

[Winter]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 07:45 PM
Ask one of the users here that have tried it, ask me if you want. Personally I never really enjoyed it, and it isn't my scene, but each to their own.
It really is an iffy issue, but from personal experience, everybody I know who gets hooked on it ruins there life. They're not even the same person. Really crazy stuff.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by WintersDemise+Feb 26 2006, 10:03 PM--> (WintersDemise @ Feb 26 2006, 10:03 PM)
[email protected] 26 2006, 07:45 PM
Ask one of the users here that have tried it, ask me if you want. Personally I never really enjoyed it, and it isn't my scene, but each to their own.
It really is an iffy issue, but from personal experience, everybody I know who gets hooked on it ruins there life. They're not even the same person. Really crazy stuff. [/b]
I know, but why people abuse to the level where they are life-wreckingly hooked is largely to do with the society they live in.

There are members here that use heroin, but in some areas it can destroy a whole town. I know people that have had major problems with alcohol and even canabis but it still isn't enough to restrict anyone.

It may seem not like it, but it is possible to take meth and not get hooked. Then again, I have also seen friends go on a downwards spiral.

[Sense-A]

Why should you care unless it is family or a friend? People are willingly hurting themselves with drugs and many other things. Same thing as cutting their own flesh or ripping our their own hair. It is the same thing as watching a fat man eat 5 eggs and a stack of pancakes with extra syrup. Do the police arrest him for having too much cholesterol or clogged arteries?

[sgdp]

Originally posted by Sense-[email protected] 28 2006, 03:42 PM
It is the same thing as watching a fat man eat 5 eggs and a stack of pancakes with extra syrup. Do the police arrest him for having too much cholesterol or clogged arteries?
I have to say that gorging on food is completely different from a drug-induced mental state. I've had a lot of experience with drugs and their effects, though I have never taken any myself. The only reason such things as murder are illegal are because of Capitalism. Murder inclines one less person to go to work the next morning, one less profitable worker. Taking in to consideration drugs and their effects, you can't deny the effects of say, alcohol, on other's lives. Drunk driving, for instance, causes many deaths, and the only reason the government cares is because its losing workers. With such a direct cause of death, it's obvious the Capitalists need to control it, whereas with a fat man with pancakes is simply affecting himself over time, usually not dying much sooner than a healthy man, and able to work just as equally profitably.
Also, I'm new to this site format, so if something went wrong with my quoting, I apologize.

[Sense-A]

I can understand your concern for someone of altered concious operating a machine at high velocity on a public road. you are right people should be safe and fully aware while driving. but where do you draw the line? if someone is high but driving perfectly fine then are they to be punished anyways?

My argument is that a person lives in their own body. A person's body belongs to that person. What they do to their own body whether they put something in it or tattoo it or pierce it is up to them. What they choose to eat smoke drink inject is up to them! A person who is drunk and assaults someone should be charged for assaulting someone but not for being drunk. Why do some high people break the law and others just mind their own business? You cannot prove that it is the drug that MAKES them do bad things. Accuse them of the bad things they do, but do not punish them for the chemicals inside their body. People will abuse their own bodies it is sad. but the government should not imprison people by saying they are only allowed to consume certain things and other things they cannot consume.

[RedAnarchist]

I agree - do what you will with your own body, so long as you understand those actions upon your body.

[STN]

well one thing we could do is legalize all the drugs. that would lower crime rate. but if someone took it to far then they might have to go into rehabilitation.

[Sense-A]

if drugs were legalized then half the american prisoners would have to be released. face it, most prisoners were sent to jail because they were drug addicts caught with marijuana, cocaine, heroine too many times. all of a sudden the judge thinks they are bad guys. these guys go thru drastic measures to not be incriminated for their addictions.

[RevSouth]

My cousin was pulled over by the cops on a traffic violation, and swallowed a couple baggies(?) of meth(How does one carry meth?). He died later that night. But there may have been some other guy involved, who may have had something to do with it.