Russian Revolution funded by Zionist Jews

[The Unholy]

Where does this conspiracy theory originate from?

From the limited amount of research I’ve gathered, it seems to have originated from the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” which has been repeatedly shown to be a fraud and largely plagiarized from earlier works unrelated to Jews.

It appears the protocols were propaganda to discredit the Russian Revolution and the Bolsheviks as a Jewish conspiracy for world domination.

Further research shows that these same “protocols” were widely used and reprinted by Hitler, Henry Ford and a number of right wing Muslim nations and still used today.

It’s hard for me to imagine that this kind of nonsense can all originate back to this one, obvious fraudulent publication. Were there other sources before the protocols?


NOTE:

I’m not confident that this is in the correct forum. I chose history since this does in fact have to do with the history of anti-Semitism, the Russian revolution, etc.

[Body Count]

I've heard many bullshit theories regarding the Russian Revolution and communism ties to illuminati/world domination.

Not too certain where they originate though.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Rel...d_communism.htm (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Illuminati/illuminati_and_communism.htm)

http://www.higherpraise.com/nwo.htm

http://www.conspiracyworld.com/index0017.htm

http://www.benabraham.com/html/illuminati_-_666.html

http://100777.com/myron

^^^ This one is the funniest.


The Russian Bolsheviks were to be their instruments in this particular plot. From the turn of the century; the chiefs of the Bolsheviks were Nicolai Lenin, Leon Trotsky, and later Joseph Stalin. Of course, those were not their true family names. Prior to the outbreak; Switzerland became their haven. Trotsky's headquarters was on the lower East Side in New York; largely the habitat of Russian-Jewish refugees. Both Lenin and Trotsky were similarly bewhiskered and unkempt. In those days that was the badge of Bolshevism. Both lived well yet neither had a regular occupation. Neither had any visible means of support, yet both always had plenty of money. All those mysteries were solved in 1917. Right from the outset of the war; strange and mysterious goings-on were taking place in New York. Night after night; Trotsky darted furtively in and out of Jacob Schiff's palace-mansion and in the dead of those same nights there were a gathering of hoodlums of New York's lower East Side. All of them Russian refugees at Trotsky's headquarters and all were going through some mysterious sort of training-process that was all shrouded in mystery. Nobody talked; although it did leak out that Schiff was financing all of Trotsky's activities.

"Then suddenly Trotsky vanished and so did approximately 300 of his trained hoodlums. Actually they were on the high seas in a Schiff-chartered ship bound for a rendezvous with Lenin and his gang in Switzerland. And also on that ship was $20,000,000 in gold; the $20,000,000 was provided to finance the Bolsheviks takeover of Russia. In anticipation of Trotsky's arrival; Lenin prepared to throw a party in his Switzerland hideaway. Men of the very highest places in the world were to be guests at that party. Among them were the mysterious Colonel Edward Mandell House, Woodrow Wilson's mentor and palsy-walsy, and more important; Schiff's special and confidential messenger. Another of the expected guests was Warburg of the Warburg Banking Clan in Germany, who was financing the Kaiser and whom the Kaiser had rewarded by making him chief of the Secret Police of Germany. In addition; there were the Rothschilds of London and Paris also Lithenoth, Kakonavich, and Stalin (who was then the head of a train and bank robbing gang of bandits). He was known as the "Jesse James of the Urals."

:lol:

[Severian]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 14 2006, 04:56 PM
It’s hard for me to imagine that this kind of nonsense can all originate back to this one, obvious fraudulent publication. Were there other sources before the protocols?
Before? Not that I know of. Why is that hard to believe? All ideas have to start somewhere, and ultraright conspiracy theories are not known for rationality.

Similar propaganda blaming revolutions on conspiracies goes a lot further back, though. For example, Pope Leo X blamed the 1789 French Revolution and other revolutionary agitation around that time on the Freemasons, especially those Freemasons influenced by the ideas of the Illuminati, a banned revolutionary-democratic organization.

Ironically enough since a lot of later conspiracy theories involve both the Freemasons and the Catholic Church.

It shouldn't be particularly suprising that massive amounts of conspiracism can grow from small beginnings. People who can't understand where revolutions and other world events really come from, find it easy to blame conspiracies.

And conspiracism grows readily out of mainstream thinking.

Conspiracism 101 (http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/conspiracism-07.html)

After reviewing some common conspiracy theories, it points out:
All of these perspectives assume inaccurately that (a) the US political system contains a democratic "essence" blocked by outside forces, and (b) oppression is basically a matter of subjective actions by individuals or groups, not objective structures of power. These assumptions are not marginal, "paranoid" beliefs-they are ordinary, mainstream beliefs that reflect the individualism, historical denial, and patriotic illusions of mainstream liberal thought.

[BuyOurEverything]

It’s hard for me to imagine that this kind of nonsense can all originate back to this one, obvious fraudulent publication. Were there other sources before the protocols?


No, it doesn't 'originate' from the book. It's more the other way around. This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocols_of_elder_zion) article gives a pretty good explanation.


The origin of much of the text of the Protocols is an 1864 pamphlet entitled Dialogue aux enfers entre Machiavel et Montesquieu(Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu) by the French satirist Maurice Joly. Joly's work attacks the political ambitions of Napoleon III using the device of diabolical plotters in Hell as stand-ins for Napoleon's views. Joly himself appears to have plagiarized a good amount of the material from a popular novel by Eugene Sue, The Mysteries of the People, in which the plotters were Jesuits, and Jews do not appear in either work. Since it was illegal to criticize the monarchy, Joly had the pamphlet printed in Belgium, then tried to smuggle it back into France. The police confiscated as many copies as they could, and it was banned. After it was traced to Joly, he was tried on April 25, 1865, and sentenced to fifteen months in prison.

So it was basically plagerized from a book that was already plagerized from another one. Plus Jewish conspiracy theories far predate this book, although perhaps not in such an 'official' form.

[Entrails Konfetti]

A good example of conspiricism going mainstream in the past would be the Peasants War of 1524 in Germany. The Peasants were fed up with social order, and some lower people of the church, such as abots divereted the attention to scapegoat the Jews. This type of scapegoating has been going on for centuries.

It really isn't fair for people of Jewish ethnicity, whenever they up anything revolutionary they are focused on by the right, yet all the WASPs or people of other ethnicities are ignored, or were seen as "pawns".

"Marx, Engles, Trotsky--evil Satanic-Jews! Stalin, Castro, Mao--PAWNS!"

But then again the religious fundementalists strains of WASPs still promote the theory of the Catholic church undermining things. So its:

"Castro--Jesuit student, IRA funded by the Catholic church--Illuminati take over, the Knights Templar are still alive!"

Jack chick comic-tracts are a good example of religious-right paranoia, if you ever look up the tract "Macho" its been taken off the Chick website, because of unprovable speculations--but it was a good example of how they claimed the Catholic Church funded Communist revolutions.

Whenever you read conspiracist bullshit, keep the image of the monkey-mermaids in mind.

Actually I have found an excerpt from "Macho", though not on www.chick.com. Its seems really out of date today, and quite laughable!

[oldunion]

i dont agree with casting this off as a mere conspiracy, like any other. i dont think its as easy as that all the time. granted most of them are false, but i believe in 9/11 and im starting to question the judeo-communistic relation.

ive read that lenin, stalin, and trotsky were all jews. but it was kept private. i lost the article, but this one guy who was moving up fast in the system as a professor of marxism was banished from russia because he said that someone (i think stalin) was jewish. i dont think its too far off. it wasnt even communism, people were kept suppressed and they were run by en elite, who falsely waived the communist banner.

i would like to know more about this, because if it all was somehow tied to judeism and some kind of world zionism, im gonna need to start over. and this is real, especially in the usa. there is a ton of jewish representation in us government.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 11:15 PM
ive read that lenin, stalin, and trotsky were all jews.
Why would it matter if they were? Why do you assume every Jew is part of some "world zionist" conspiracy?

[LSD]

but i believe in 9/11

How can one "believe" in an historical event?

No one denies that 9/11 happened, it was only 4 years ago after all. Historical revisionism has not yet taken hold.

As we all know, however, revisionism is quite alive and well regarding the holocaust. In fact, just recently in Austira, prominant Holocaust denier David Irving was sentenced to jail for his refusal to admit the obvious, and the impotent question here is why?

Why given the overwhelming evidence in support of the existance of the Nazi "Final Solution", do so many people insist on denying it? Well, the answer is that, although a few may genuinely see themselves as "truth-seekers", the vast majority of revisionists genuinely do not care about the evidence.

Remember, these people can not deny the existance of witness testimony and German documents. Rather, they insist that this abundance of evidence is fake, that it's all part of a "Jewish conspiracy".

They don't see themselves as schollars, they see themselves as warriors. They are "battling" the "Jewish conspiracy", or as their less subtle fellow travelers would call it, the "Zionist Occupied Government".

I'm retiscent to delve into name calling and I truly despise ad hominem diversions, but from the comments you made, I must say that I am quite concerned that you too could be qualified as a fellow traveler of these groups.

Anyone who finds it "not easy" to dismiss "Jewish conspiracy" theories largely invented by literal Nazis is either very confused or racist.

While I certainly hope you are the former, at this point I cannot say.


and im starting to question the judeo-communistic relation.

And what precisely is the "judeo-communistic relation"?

I don't suppose it bears any resemblance to the "Judeo-Bolshevism" of Der Stuermer fame? :o


i would like to know more about this, because if it all was somehow tied to judeism and some kind of world zionism

What on earth is "world zionism"?

Zionism is, by definition, the belief in the state of Israel. How can that be "world"?

"World zionism" would seem, to me, to be a codeword for "world judaism", just another manifestation of that nineteenth century romantic myth of a "world Jewish conspiracy".

I can't speak to your beliefs from just the hints dropped in this post, but I'm quite curious as to your opinions on "judaism" and "the Jews".

If I were you, I'd clarify my position on this issue ...soon.


im gonna need to start over.

"Start over"?

"Start" what "over"? :huh:

Are you saying that if prominant communists were in fact Jewish, that would lead you to reconsider communism? That the religion or "race" of a thinker affects how you judge their thoughts?

If so, this is definitely not the right board for you!


especially in the usa. there is a ton of jewish representation in us government.

No there isn't.

What there is is a "ton" of religious representation -- mostly Christian, of course.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one prominant Jew in the US congress, I can think of dozens of prominant Christians. And insofar as the executive is concerned, from what I have heard, the White House conducts regular Christian prayer sessions.

This myth of a Jewish "over-representation" in government or business is textbook far-right conspiracy nonsense.

It was to combat the "ton of Jewish representation" that the Nuremburg laws were passed in Germany. These were the laws that stripped German Jews of their citizenship and removed them from public society so as to "restore" German society to "German control".

I don't know if you are a closet Nazi yourself, or merely highly confused, but your statements in this thread have me quite worried.

I'm going to refrain from any action at this point, but when people start talking about "Judeo-Communism" and Jewish "overrepresentation", my antisemitism antenae are immediately piqued.

Suffice it to say I'll be watching you.

[вор в законе]

ive read that lenin, stalin, and trotsky were all jews.


No there isn't.


You are both incorrect. Lenin and the rest of the Bolsheviks were not jews for they were not religious. Judaism is a religion and not a nation or a race, as some falsely believe.

And there is a powerful Jewish Lobby in the U.S.A. , denying this would be like denying reality itself.

Of course we don't have anything against the Jews who are nothing but victims of the Israeli Imperialism. It is a shame that Israel is using the ''Jewish Holocaust'' for her imperialist ambitions.


Karl Marx - On The Jewish Question (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/index.htm)

[LSD]

And there is a powerful Jewish Lobby in the U.S.A.

There is a moderately powerful Zionist lobby and a few prominent Jewish political sponsors, but that's a far way from "a ton of jewish representation in us government"

The myth of a special "role" of Jews as a"infiltrating" and "controlling" government is pure romantic nationalist invention. The "Jewish lobby" is not esepcially important, certainly not in comparisons with organizations with serious fiscal weight behind them like NADA or the NRA or the CBA.

And if you really want to talk about religious groups with disproportionate influence, you need look no further than the fundamentalist protestantism of virtually the entire Republican senior leadership.

It isn't the "Catholics" or "the Jews" that hold the reigns of power in Washington today, it isn't even the traditional "military industrial complex" of Eisenhower. That neat little fifties couple has gone nineties on us, turning into some sort of bastardized love-child, with militarism becoming more and more ideological and industry becoming less and less overtly visible.

In today's America, there is increasingly less and less distinction between the two supposedly distinct parts of the "complex". There is, however, certainly no doubt about which "God" is running the show -- it's the radical evangelical Christian one of course!

Now, at this point, your "leaders" haven't yet turned against the Jews specifically, but don't delude yourself into thinking that's because of any Jewish "special status". The Jews of Germany were quite integrated as well.

Remember, the fundamentalist Christians want Israel to exist because revelations nescessitates it. They are not supporting zionism on its merits, they are doing so in the hopes that it will bring back Jesus!

They want all those Israeli Jews (and arabs) to die when Jesus unleashes his "holy judgement" upon them! :o

This has nothing to do with politics, it has everything to do with "faith".

The rise of functional atheism has so terrified these people of "faith" that they are forming temporary alliances of utter convinience. Atheism is the biggest threat to their ideological supremecy and so, for now, it's the prime target of their attacks.

But what do you think would happen should they win? What happens the day after they finally establish their "Christian States of America"?

Do you think that the "poweful Jewish lobby" will still be so "powerful"? Do you think that it will really protect non-Christians from the theocratic edicts sure to be passed?

Capitalism cares only about money, but Christian fascism cares about belief. At present, the bourgeoisie is composed of an interesting mix of true capitalists and wealthy Christians. Certainly, in recent years, the obvious split between these factions has become quite apparent.

In the end, it is certain that capitalism will outlast superstition. But in terms of one country for the next few decades ...it's hard to say.

If the current trends continue, it doesn't seem impossible that we could see the emergence of a functionaly Christian fascist theocratic US within the next few decades.

So much for your "powerful Jewish lobby"! :lol:

[chimx]

No doubt, it is a byproduct of a general culture of Russian xenophobia. Following the 1905 revolution, Foreign Minister Lamsdorf said that 1905 had been caused "by the Jews of all countries" and "the revolutionary movement was being actively supported and partly directed by the forces of universal Jewry". Nicholas II agreed with this opinion completely.

This was the same xenophobia that saw the bolsheviks arrested due to german connections following the July Days of 1917. Of course they WERE taking money from Russia's war enemy, and Lenin DID travel back to Russia on an armored german train--so the accusations weren't completely unfounded in this case. However, more importantly, it gave rightists like those supporting Kornoliv all the fodder they needed to write the Bolsheviks off as a product of foreign (and possibly therefore Jewish) interest, making the revolution antithetical to Russia's slavophile culture.

This is all conjecture on my part, and more importantly, the Bolsheviks still sucked.

[Comrade Marcel]

ive read that lenin, stalin, and trotsky were all jews.

Trotsky came from a Jewish family, and I can see someone trying to say or suspect that Lenin was a Jew; but Stalin?!?

The guy was in school in a monestary studying for preisthood in his early teenage years!

As for the Zionist (or Jewish connection as the anti-Semites would make no dsitinction) conspiracy, usually I see these two references:

Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Antony C. Sutton (http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/) (the same guy also wrote Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler (http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/), ironically)....

and a ridiculous piece of fiction and satire which, like 1984 and animal farm, is taken to be some sort of political-science texts by a few morons. It's called "Red Symphony" (http://www.worldnewsstand.net/history/redsymphony.html) and the thesis of it basically goes:

Germany helped Lenin get to Russia for the revolution
Jews controlled Germany at that time
Wall street sent money to Russia after 1917
Jews controlled wall street
this proves Jews engineered the October revolution
International communism is really capitalism
capitalism is really international communism
for example some forms of capitalism exists in moscow
some forms of socialism exist in new york city
and vice versa
this proves my point
they are the thesis to the anti-thesis
they are the same thing
a product of Judaism
the world is fucked and full of death,w ar, and poverty
and (of course) the Jews are responsible for all this
all this is caused by the Jews
the above prooves that
conclusion:
they do this because they want to dominate the world by any means necessary

Anyone with a medicore bit of intellect can see straight through this pile of anti-Semitically bad humour.

[Fascist-Hunter]

I wonder why people still believe things like that. As Comrade Marcel has already pointed out Stalin was a Christian. Even if Trotzky or Lenin were Jews... who cares? They became revolutionaries and therefore they stood against religion. These stories were invented by fascist to make people believe that communism is a bad idea. there is no such thing as "biological judaism" which fascist try to tell the world.

[Thorez]

Zionist Jewish oligarch Jacob Schiff funded the bourgeois provisional government of Russia as well as Japan in its war against Russia, but did not provide any aid to the Bolsheviks. The assertion that Jews were dominant of the Marxist movement is a preposterous myth espoused by Nazi Germany. Several outlets on the internet have regurgitated these absurd myths. They try to mislead the masses into accepting their rubbish by contriving bogus names of the Bolshevik leadership such as "Levine" while omitting gentiles. The Bolshevik leadership always had a Russian majority. The prominent Jewish Bolsheviks Zinoviev and Kamenev fiercely clashed with Lenin over the plot of the Great October Socialist Revolution. They even disclosed the date of the plan to a newspaper two weeks prior! Other prominent Jewish Bolsheviks had been long-time Mensheviks including Trotsky, Adolf Ioffe, and Moises Uritsky. Out of the very first members of the Bolshevik regime (People's Commissars), the lone Jew was Trotsky:

Chairman - Lenin
Foreign Affairs - Trotsky
Agriculture - Vladimir Milyutin
Commerce - Viktor Nogin
Communications - Mark Yelizarov
Education - Anatoli Lunatsharski
Finance - Ivan Skvortzov
Food - Ivan Teodorovitsh
Interior - Aleksei Rykov
Justice - Afanasi Lomov
Labour - Aleksandr Shlyapnikov
Military and Navy - Vladimir Antonov-Ovseynko, Dybenko, and Krylenko
Post and Telegraphs - Nikolai Avilov

Out of the 15 people above, Trotsky was a Jew and Teodorovitsch was a Pole. All the others were Russian.

Source (http://www.elisanet.fi/daglarsson/dokumentit/sov.htm#LENIN)

According to "Roots of Russian Social Democracy" by David Lane, in the 1907 Congress of the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party, out of 105 delegates, 78% were Russian, 11% were Jewish, 5% were Transcaucasian, 3% were Baltic, and 1% were Ukrainian. Jews were indeed disproportionately represented but this is not anything outstanding because Russians, having formed just 50% of the population of the Russian Empire, were similarly disproportionately represented.

"the main and most significant difference between the two factions lay in their national background. The Bolsheviks were far more homogenous. . . they had a small minority of Jewish members but were overwhelmingly Great Russians (p.51).

In 1917-1923, there were 78 people that entered the Central Committee. Of these, 38 were Russian, 13 were Jewish, 8 were Ukrainian, 8 were Baltic, 5 were Transcaucasian, and 6 others. They were:

A.S Bubnov, N.I Bukharin, F.E Dzerzhinski, E.M Iaroslavski, M.I Kalinin, L.B Kamenev, A.S Kiselev, V.I Lenin, V.P Miliutin, G.I Petrovski, K.B Radek, Kh.G Rakovski, A.I Rykov, F.A Sergeev, A.G Shliapnikov, V.V Schmidt, I.T Smilga, I.N Smirnov, G.IA Sokolnikov, I.V Stalin, M.P Tomski, L.D Trotsky, G.E Zinoviev, S.G Shaumian, P.A Dzhaparidze, Ia.M Sverdlov, M.S Uritski, A.G Beloborodov, Ia.A Berzin, K.Kh Danishevski, G.E Evdokimov, V.N Iakovleva, A.A Ioffe, V.S Kapsukas, A.M Kollontai, N.N Krestinski, M.M Lashevich, G.I Lomov, M.K Muranov, V.P Nogin, E.A Preobrazhenski, L.P Serebriakov, N.A Skrypnik, E.D Stasova, P.I Stuchka, M.F Vladimirski, A.A Andreev, A.E Badaev, V.Ia Chubar, M.V Frunze, S.I Gusev, S.M Kirov, N.P Komarov, I.I Korotkov, T.S Krivov, V.V Kuibyshev, I.I Kutuzov, D.Z Lebed, I.I Lepse, S.S Lobov, D.Z Manuilski, V.M Mikhailov, A.I Mikoian, V.M Molotov, G.K Ordzhonikidze, V.V Osinski, G.L Piatakov, I.A Piatnitski, A.R Rakhimbaev, Ia.E Rudzutak, G.I Safarov, T.V Saporonov, D.E Sulimov, I.Ia Tuntul, N.A Uglanov, K.E Voroshilov, P.A Zalutski, I.A Zelenski

The Jews above are Iaroslavski, Kamenev (Rosenfeld), Radek (Sobelson), Sokolnikov (Brilliant), Trotsky (Bronstein), Zinoviev (Apfelbaum), Sverdlov (Yankel), Uritski, Ioffe, Lashevich, Gusev, Piatnitski, Zelenski.

In the 1925 Central Committee, out of 106 members of which the nationality of 97 are known, there were: 58 Russians, 12 Jews, 7 Transcaucasians, 5 Baltics, 5 Ukrainians, and ten others. Again, Jews are disproportionately represented, but so were the Transcaucasians and Baltics. Jews were 2% of the population in 1922 but were about 17% of the Central Committee in 1917-1923. However, Baltics were .7% of USSR's population in 1922 yet were 10% of the Central Committee. The Baltics Felix Dzerzhinski and Jacob Peters led the Cheka; the Pole Vyacheslav Menzhinski succeeded Dzerzhinski upon his death. Transcaucasians were 2.5% of the population but 6% of the Central Committee. There were even 2 Germans Vasili Schmidt and Emanuil Kviring in the 1925 Central Committee.

In 1934, out of 139 members of which the nationality of 133 are known, 72 were Russian and 23 were Jewish. The Jewish presence was startlingly high, but their position was not any threat to the Russian majority.

In 1939, out of 139 members of which the nationality of 112 are known, 11 were Jews. Russians were 70% of the membership and Ukrainians were 21%. It is unlikely that the remaining members whose nationality is unknown were Jewish because the names of Jews in Russia are easily decipherable. They have got German names such as Fridman, Ginsberg, Goldstein, etc as well Jewish names such as Cohen, Kaplan, Levin and names ending in -sky and -vitch.

In 1952, there were 3 Jews out of 236 members (Kaganovitch, Mekhlis, and Vannikov). 75% were Russian. Jews here ceased to be a notable force.

In 1956-1981, of the 948 members of the Central Committee of which the nationality of 851 are known, there were just 6 Jews. To compare, Finlander Otto Kuusinen was in the Politburo in this period even though there are close to no Finlanders in Russia/USSR. In other words, .6% of the Communist leadership after Stalin was composed of Jews. Thus, Jews were underrepresented.

Source: "The Soviet Elite from Lenin to Gorbachev" by Evan Mawdsley and Stephen White.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Useful and interesting thread; and Thorez, thankyou for all that detail!

You can find a recent source of such (whacko) ideas in Jim Marr's book: 'Rule by Secrecy' (2000), and the background in Norman Cohn's books: 'Europe's Inner Demons' and 'Warrant for Genocide' (the latter is about the 'Protocols').

Loads of links at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols..._Elders_of_Zion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion)

Holocaust material at:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/

[Cheung Mo]

I thought Stalin was a member of the Russian Orthodox Church in his youth...Trotsky I know as a Jew, and Lenin I'm clueless about.

[Thorez]

Lenin, born in Tatarstan, was from his father's side part Russian and part Kalmyk (mongoloid people). His mother was a Lutheran of maternal Volga German blood; her father was a Jew who had converted to Christianity.

[Rakshas]

I have read in a couple of websites that John D Rockefeller (the infamous capitalist) supported and financed Lenin and his Bolshevik Revolution. Is it true? Can someone please provide a link where the truth behind such an allegation can be verfied? Please help.

[Gottwald]

You are both incorrect. Lenin and the rest of the Bolsheviks were not jews for they were not religious. Judaism is a religion and not a nation or a race, as some falsely believe.

Actually, you are incorrect. The Jews are of the Semitic race hence the excessive use of the term "anti-Semitism" by Zionists and Zionist sympathisers. Judaism is a cult and an ethnicity similarly to how to ancient Greece and its cult.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 03:38 PM
The Bolshevik leadership always had a Russian majority. The prominent Jewish Bolsheviks Zinoviev and Kamenev fiercely clashed with Lenin over the plot of the Great October Socialist Revolution. They even disclosed the date of the plan to a newspaper two weeks prior! Other prominent Jewish Bolsheviks had been long-time Mensheviks including Trotsky, Adolf Ioffe, and Moises Uritsky. Out of the very first members of the Bolshevik regime (People's Commissars), the lone Jew was Trotsky:
Thorez turns out to be a Holocaust denier. Not surprising for someone at such pains to deny that there was anything non-Russian about the Bolshevik leadership! As if there was some shame about being Jewish, or Polish, or Georgian.

In reality, the Bolshevik Party and the Russian Revolution were thoroughly multinational. The biggest supporters of the revolution included many who had been oppressed by Russian chauvinism under the tsars: from Jewish workers - and a few Jewish intellectuals - to the Latvian Rifles and the Baku Commune.

Trotsky explained that there is nothing strange or surprising about this, or about its reflection among political leaders:

Enemies of the Executive Committee in the reactionary camp made a great point of the "preponderance" in it of non-Russians: Jews, Georgians, Letts, Poles, and so forth. Although by comparison with the whole membership of the Executive Committee the non-Russian elements were not very numerous, it is nevertheless true that they occupied a very prominent place in the præsidium , in the various committees, among the orators, etc. Since the intelligentsia of the oppressed nationalities-concentrated as they were for the most part in cities-had flowed copiously into the revolutionary ranks, it is not surprising that among the old generation of revolutionaries the number of non-Russians was especially large. Their experience, although not always of a high quality, made them irreplaceable when it came to inaugurating new social forms. The attempt, however, to explain the policy of the soviets and the course of the whole revolution by an alleged "predominance" of non-Russians is pure nonsense. Nationalism in this case again reveals its scorn for the real nation-that is, the people-representing them in the period of their great national awakening as a mere block of wood in alien and accidental hands. But why and how did the non-Russians acquire such miracle-working power over the native millions? As a matter of fact, at a moment of deep historic change, the bulk of a nation always presses into its’ service those elements which were yesterday most oppressed, and therefore are most ready to give expression to the new tasks. It is not that aliens lead the revolution, but that the revolution makes use of the aliens. It has been so even in great reforms introduced from above. The policy of Peter did not cease to be national when, swinging out of the old tracks, it impressed into its service non-Russians and foreigners. The master of some German suburb, or some Dutch skipper, would express far better at that period the demands of the national development of Russia, than Russian priests dragged in long ago by the Greeks, or Moscow Boyars, who also complained of foreign predominance, although themselves descended from those alien tribes who created the Russian state. In any case the non-Russian intelligentsia of 1917 were distributed amongst the same parties as the one hundred per cent. Russians, suffered from the same vices, made the same mistakes-and moreover the non-Russians among the Mensheviks and Social Revolutionaries displayed a most particular zeal for the defence and unity of Russia.
source (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1930-hrr/ch12.htm)

What else? Jews were regarded by everyone in the context of 1917 Russia as one of the many nationalities of the Russian empire. They had their distinctive language, Yiddish. Language was the defining feature for many nationalities in the context of Russia. Jews were neither a "race" - Gottwald strikes me as some kind of closet Nazi - nor solely a religious group.

That's sometimes true in other times and places as well, depending on social context.

[Vasili Blucher]

In reality, the Bolshevik Party and the Russian Revolution were thoroughly multinational.

It does not take anyone extraordinary to realize that Russia is a thoroughly multi-national country with over 100 ethnic identities. Your statement is as obvious as, "the sky is blue".


from Jewish workers to the Latvian Rifles

:lol: @ Jewish workers. Again, it does not take anyone extraordinary to realize that Jews were and are for the most part petit bourgeois artisans and merchants -- complete strangers to the industrial working class that Communism solely represents.

In demonstrating that Severian has no idea of what he's talking about, in reality, the Bolshevik faction was ethnic Russian homogenous with a handful of Jews. "The Roots of Russian Communism" by David Lane shows the ethnic composition of the Bolshevik and Menshevik delegates of the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party at the 5th Congress in 1907. As is clearly seen, Great Russians were the overwhelming majority of the Bolshevik faction while the Mensheviks had a Great Russian plurality with Georgians and Jews following very closely behind.

Bolsheviks:
82 Russians
12 Jews
3 Georgians
2 Armenians
1 Pole
1 Lett
1 Ukrainian
1 Estonian
1 Finn
1 Tatar

Mensheviks:
33 Russians
28 Georgians
22 Jews
6 Ukrainians
2 Poles
1 German
1 Estonian
1 Armenian
1 Greek
1 Osset

[Comrade Yastrebkov]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 01:08 PM
I have read in a couple of websites that John D Rockefeller (the infamous capitalist) supported and financed Lenin and his Bolshevik Revolution. Is it true? Can someone please provide a link where the truth behind such an allegation can be verfied? Please help.
I have not heard of this exact theory, however the fact that Trotsky was a jew and was supported by millionaire zionists is undeniable. I have been told that this is all a "crazed conspiracy theory", but all these facts can be found on "conspiratorial" sites like google or wikipedia.

Leiba Davidovich Bronshtein escaped to Paris where he became close to millionaire zionists. H emarried a second time, to the daughter of the millionaire Zhitovskiy, who with his company of bankers including Varburg and Shiff financed the destruction of the revolution in Russia.

To raise his popularity, they organised trips and lectures abroad for Trotsky, to attract socialists, mensheviks, and "social revolutionaries".

All of Trotsky's speeches and writings before his return to Russia were contradictory to to Lenin's in theoretical and practical questions relating to the revolutionary movement.

This is what Trotsky wrote about Lenin in 1913: "All Leninism at the moment is built on lies and falsification and carries in itself the poisonous apple of self destruction". "Lenin is a proffesional exploitator of everything backward in the Russian worker's movement".

In 1916 during the war, Trotsky's speeches, as a defeatist, were criminal which is why he is expelled from France, which ws Russia's ally. Trotsky's "owners" used this opportunity to show their "chosen one" to their American colleagues. Trotsky was liked there too, and he opens his own paper, "The New World". On whose money? On the money of his compatriots - bankers.

In New York, he met another anti-leninist - Bukharin. On the way back to Russia after the February revolution, he was arrested in Canade. But "somebody" took the necessary measures and and he was freed on personal request of Kerensky.

The widely known british agent Bruce Lockhart, captured and exiled from Russia for the organisation of anit-soviet coups, in his book "English Agent" writes: "...The English Special Service intended to use to their advantage the disagreement between Lenin and Trotsky".

Lokhart established a constant link with Trotsky, he met with him often in his own cabinet (he was the national commissar of foreign affairs) and received from him "first-hand information about the situation in government and its decisions on all matters". Lockhart openly writes in his book that "dreamt of organising a grand putsch with Trotsky".

In March 1918 French and British agents planned an allied landing in Murmansk. The plan was to concentrate a large force of White Army troops there and move the 50 000-strong Czechoslovakian corps to the location.

To complete the plan, Lockhart turned to Trotsky, and as Lockhart says "Trotsky agreed to send the corps to Murmansk and Arhangelsk". "Trotsky showed his willingness to work with the allies...he always gave us what we wanted, made the cooperation easier"..

These are just some of the facts from Bronshtein's early "career".

There is also his refusal to obey Lenin's orders and sign a treaty with the Germans which resulted in a massive German offenisve (due to Bronshtein's advocation of the demobilisation of the army) and then the humiliating Brest-Litovsk Treaty

His hand in the attempted coup of August 28 1918 (luckily stopped by Dherzhinsky). After the failure of this coup Lockhart himslef wrote "Trotsky was as incapable of taking on Lenin, as a flea is incapable of taking on an elephant".

His failures in the Civil War, which had to be corrected by Stalin, Frunze, Voroshilov, Budeniy and Egorov, and whose victories were often attributed to Bronshtein by his "friends" in the foreign media.


Contrary to Thorez'z earlier post, Trotsky was not a "lone jew" surrounded by an overwhelming Russian majority. Being in charge of the military and foreign affairs, he wielded great power and authority. This is how Trotsky organised his military commission:

Commissar of Army and Fleet - Bronshtein - Trotsky - Jew
Chairman of the reevolutionary headquarters of the Northern army - Fishman- Jew
Commissar of the military-judicial 12th Army - Romm - Jew
Political Commissar of the 12th Army - Meichik - Jew
Political Commissar of the 4th Army headquarters - Livenson - Jew
Chairman of The Committe of the Western front Armies - Pozern - Jew
Political Commissar of the Moscow military district - Gubelman-Yaroslavskiy - Jew
Political Commissar of the Vitebsk military district - Deib - Jew
Commissar of military property in Slutsk - Kalmanovich - Latvian
Political Commissar of Samara division - Bekman - Jew
Commissar of the property detachment of Moscow military district - Zuzmanovich - Jew

Chairman of the Central Moscow military soviet - Bronshtein - Trotsky - Jew
His assistants:
Girfshfeld - Jew
Sklyanskiy - Jew

Members of the same soviet:
Shorodak - Jew
Petch - Jew

Military Commissar of Moscow province - Shteingart - German
His Assistant - Dulis - Latvian
Commissar of the School of Border Guards - Gleizer - Latvian
Political Commissars of 15th division of soviets - Dzennis, Polonskiy - Latvian, Jew
Commissar of the military soveit of Caucasian armies - Lehtiner - Jew
Emergency Commissars of the Eastern Front - Bruno, Shulman - Jews
Members of the Caucasian military soviet - Rozengolts, Meygof, Nazengolts - Jews
Commander of the Red Army in Yaroslavl - Gekker - Jew
Head of the Petrograd military commisariat - Neiger - Jew
Political Commissars of Petrograd military district - Tseiger, Gittis - Jews
Commander of Western Front against Czechoslovakia - Vatsetis - Latvian
Member of the soviet of military commune - Nazimer- Jew
Head of military commune - Kolman, formerly Austrian officer - Jew
Head of Moscow military district - Bitsis - Latvian
Military Commissar of Moscow military district - Metkaz - Jew
Head of the defence of Crimea - Zak - Jew
Commander of Kursk front - Sluzin - Jew
His Assistant - Zilberman - Jew
Political Commissar of Romanian Front - Sniro - Jew
Authorised for peace talks with Germany - Davidovich - Jew
Candidate for membership of military commisariat - Shisur - Latvian
Soldier of Military Commisariat - Smidovich - Jew

Total:

Russians - 0
Latvians - 8
Germans - 1
Jews - 34

Comments?

[Severian]

Originally posted by Vasili [email protected] 10 2006, 07:59 PM

In reality, the Bolshevik Party and the Russian Revolution were thoroughly multinational.

It does not take anyone extraordinary to realize that Russia is a thoroughly multi-national country with over 100 ethnic identities. Your statement is as obvious as, "the sky is blue".
But of course not every party in Russia was multinational. Or every party in other multinational states then or now.

Or, for example, the Chinese Revolution was a much more Han-dominated affair. Even taking into account the lower numbers of the other nationalities in the Chinese state.


:lol: @ Jewish workers. Again, it does not take anyone extraordinary to realize that Jews were and are for the most part petit bourgeois artisans and merchants -- complete strangers to the industrial working class that Communism solely represents.

It does take a mindless Jew-hater to suggest that the Jewish population had the same class composition in all times and places. (It's also strange to suggest that artisans are "complete strangers" to the industrial working class - they are the ancestors of the working class historically and the 1848 Communist League for example was largely composed of artisans.)

There were in fact a fair number of Jewish workers in pre-revolutionary Russia. And a fair number in the U.S. at one point, or Israel today.

Most Jews in the U.S. today are probably salaried professionals, not artisans or merchants or any other element of the traditional petty-bourgeoisie.

So we see why this dork is now a banned member.

He also directly contradicts himself; at the beginning of his post he admits the Bolshevik Party was "obviously" "thoroughly multinational", but by the end it's "Great Russian homogenous" again.

The delegates to the 1907 congress don't tell you what the composition of the party as a whole was by 1917! The Bolshevik and Menshevik factions were still just taking shape in 1907. Possibly the difference does reflect a greater role of intellectuals in the Menshevik faction, plus the strength of that party in Georgia....

And of course none of Thorez' sock puppets have proved that the Bolshevik Party needs to be defended from the awful charge that it included a lot of non-Russians; it's just assumed by this obvious anti-Semite and probable Russian chauvinist.

****

And Yastrebkov drops the mask and comes out as openly anticommunist; proclaiming it is was criminal to be "defeatist" during WWI. Actually defeatism was Lenin's policy, not some evil Jewish innovation by Trotsky.

His facts are either made up completely or badly distorted; it'd be tedious to go through them all.

[Janus]

Or, for example, the Chinese Revolution was a much more Han-dominated affair. Even taking into account the lower numbers of the other nationalities in the Chinese state.
Are you talking about leaders? Then what about Sun Zhongshan, Zhang Guotao, Zhu De, and Hu Yaobang just to name a few?