The Decline And Fall Of Europe

[amanondeathrow]

"It's often noted that the European Union has a combined gross domestic product that is approximately the same as that of the United States. But the E.U. has 170 million more people. Its per capita GDP is 25 percent lower than that of the United States, and, most important, that gap has been widening for 15 years. If present trends continue, the chief economist at the OECD argues, in 20 years the average U.S. citizen will be twice as rich as the average Frenchman or German. (Britain is an exception on most of these measures, lying somewhere between Continental Europe and the United States.)"
Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/13/AR2006021301569.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns)

[redstar2000]

Further evidence, I think, in support of my contention that the first proletarian revolutions in this century will break out in the "old" capitalist countries of Europe.

More and more, capitalism looks likes it's approaching the "end of the line" there.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 07:44 AM
Further evidence, I think, in support of my contention that the first proletarian revolutions in this century will break out in the "old" capitalist countries of Europe.

More and more, capitalism looks likes it's approaching the "end of the line" there.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
But still to soon to break open the liberated champagne.

[piet11111]

well things certainly are going fast here some observations from a dutchguy.

- loss of trust towards politics resulting in indifference or extremism (if only we had more vocal leftists)
- police gaining more rights to check poeple for weapons/drugs and also to check their ID.
- crackdown on softdrugs.
- poeple getting fired more often also the procedure to fire poeple is much easier.
- procedure for starting a new political party made tougher also donations to political party's have to be reported.
- government support below 30% yet nothing happens.
- social security is harder to get and its much less aswell.

if things keep going at the same rate as now it would be hard to imagine that capitalism will outlast us.

[MiniOswald]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 07:44 AM
Further evidence, I think, in support of my contention that the first proletarian revolutions in this century will break out in the "old" capitalist countries of Europe.

More and more, capitalism looks likes it's approaching the "end of the line" there.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
Do you think that people will become discomforted enough in europe for revolution?

I mean it takes a whole lot of hardship before people turn to armed rebellion.

[Soheran]

What really matters economically is not GDP, which doesn't take into account differences like shorter work weeks, but productivity. French productivity is one of the highest in the world. Other Western European countries have productivity levels about equivalent to the United States.

There is less economic inequality, better social services, less poverty, and better humanitarian indictators in Western European countries than in the United States.

The exception, at least partial exception, to most of these is the United Kingdom, which has a poverty rate higher than the US. Brilliant success story there.

If the people of Western Europe were really so much worse off than those of the United States, corporations would be seeking cheap labor there, instead of leaving so that they can find cheap labor elsewhere. "High labor costs" implies good economic conditions for a large portion of the population.

[YSR]

Well you guys gave us a large amount of revolutionary thinkers. It's time you all tried the whole revolution thing again.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by MiniOswald
Do you think that people will become discomforted enough in Europe for revolution?

Well, it "fits the parameters" for proletarian revolution and communism.

A highly-educated proletariat that recognizes that it's being "pushed down"...with both a revolutionary tradition and little in the way of superstitious crap to cloud their brains. And a ruling class that increasingly displays its "unfitness to rule"...corrupt, repressive, and incompetent.

It's exactly what Marx was really talking about.

So if he was right, then Europe is where everything will begin!

It's the "big test" for the entire historical materialist paradigm.

And I would go even further. If there are no proletarian revolutions in Europe by the end of this century, that probably means that capitalism is "eternal".

And humanity is totally fucked! :o

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 04:05 PM
well things certainly are going fast here some observations from a dutchguy.

- loss of trust towards politics resulting in indifference or extremism (if only we had more vocal leftists)
- police gaining more rights to check poeple for weapons/drugs and also to check their ID.
- crackdown on softdrugs.
- poeple getting fired more often also the procedure to fire poeple is much easier.
- procedure for starting a new political party made tougher also donations to political party's have to be reported.
- government support below 30% yet nothing happens.
- social security is harder to get and its much less aswell.

if things keep going at the same rate as now it would be hard to imagine that capitalism will outlast us.

Well... i think u see things a little to... radical..

police checking people for drugs and id... it's been like that for an century i think... nothing new over here.

Social security is an European invention btw... "it becomes less", atleast we have it... there is no social security outside europa... and in belgium its... well, a good thing, i support it.

But tbh i dont see the revolution comming here... People are voting more right winged... i think the first revolution will be in country's who fucking need it... columbia & filipiniens... nepal...

[*PRC*Kensei]

What the fuck is an "anarcho-monarchist"...

anarchism with king ?

[piet11111]

well the netherlands are very different then belgium.

balkenende is doing a great job of pissing of the working class and killing social security.
all ofcourse trying to revitalise the economy by doing all these things (and at the same time buying military equipment like the joint strike fighter and participating in iraq & afghanistan)

also i never mentioned a time scale for revolution but if things keep going like they are now it could be much sooner then what we would expect.
especially if you consider the weak state of the western economy's i dont think a great depression would be impossible.
and due to america's spending like a drunken sailor an economical backlash can be expected in the near future.
how bad its going to be is anyone's guess but i doubt europe's economy will continue to grow.