9/11 [Archive] - RevLeft

ricardsju

14th February 2006, 10:25

I feel it was a inside job by the US government with a large amount of help from the Saudi king. I would have to say I don't think it was "set up", I think it was fully real (i.e people really died) and that "A Missile, not Flight 77 hit the Pentagon" is bullshit to make it seem like anything but what your government says is dubious and just a swindle by the "hippies" and "communists").

but I woun't go as far as to say this:
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3664/leftgatekeepers7tu.th.gif (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leftgatekeepers7tu.gif)

Just look at the "project for the new american century", The US government were going to us the old "lets attack our selfs and say they did it" trick most some-what fascists countrys use, to attack Cuba in the 60s-70s.

Or maybe I am just falling for bullshit of cointelpro ?

Alexknucklehead

14th February 2006, 11:41

Originally posted by !Injustice!@Feb 14 2006, 04:13 AM
well i always wanted to see others opinon on 9/11....do u believe that the american goverment knew about the attack or even set it up??
No.

Its the DRUGS talking.

Seriously though, its all just crack-pot conspirecy theorising, something that a large part of the American left seems hung up on at the moment. Even if your assertion is true (which it isn't) you can't possibly prove it so it doesn't really matter either way.

enigma2517

14th February 2006, 22:28

Agreed.

Its an interesting topic but not really of use to us.

!Injustice!

14th February 2006, 22:35

what do you mean not a use????
personally i think its a use to everyone because you get the knowledge to defeat a corrupted government such as this one.....and do what is your opinon on the 9/11 attacks??

Seong

16th February 2006, 05:24

I wouldn't discount the possibility of the American government's involvement in 9/11. I am certainly looking foward to the day when the full extent of their corruption is revealed. However, in these times underhanded government dealings are a surprise to few and the rest are just content to turn a blind eye. This is why proving it either way is very little use.

Atlas Swallowed

16th February 2006, 07:18

Originally posted by Alexknucklehead+Feb 14 2006, 12:08 PM--> (Alexknucklehead @ Feb 14 2006, 12:08 PM)
!Injustice!@Feb 14 2006, 04:13 AM
well i always wanted to see others opinon on 9/11....do u believe that the american goverment knew about the attack or even set it up??
No.

Its the DRUGS talking.

Seriously though, its all just crack-pot conspirecy theorising, something that a large part of the American left seems hung up on at the moment. Even if your assertion is true (which it isn't) you can't possibly prove it so it doesn't really matter either way. [/b]
Try to prove the official version which has never been proven and the evidence has been destroyed and covered up. No lets just believe the government and media and take what they say at face value, gee they have never lied us into wars before. They would never bring harm to thier own people and the media would never act in the governments interest :o

FULL METAL JACKET

16th February 2006, 07:35

But why is it that some of the so called "hijackers" are still alive?

Hijack suspect alive (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm)

Three of these guys are alive:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/clockworkorange192/waleedalshehri.jpg

Waleed Al Shehri, now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/clockworkorange192/abdelazizalomari.jpg

Abdulaziz Al Omari, another of the Flight 11 hijack suspects, has also been quoted in Arab news reports. He says he is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and that he lost his passport while studying in Denver.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f192/clockworkorange192/khalidal-midhar.jpg

And there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive.

Fucking crazy!

Jimmie Higgins

16th February 2006, 18:52

Originally posted by !Injustice!@Feb 14 2006, 11:02 PM
what do you mean not a use????
personally i think its a use to everyone because you get the knowledge to defeat a corrupted government such as this one.....and do what is your opinon on the 9/11 attacks??
If the US government didn't secretly plan the attack, would you support the US government? Is the Iraq war, the coups in Venusuela, Chile, and so on not covert enough for you? Is the Shah of Iran or Pinochette or so on not puppet-y enough? Is Abu Grade and Guantanomo and secret ex-soviet prison camps now used to house US detained Iraqis no enough?

I think that any imperial power is going to be a target of random desperate attacks by the people they opress at some point. Did the UK invent the IRA? Did the US plan the bombings in SPain and England? If so why did these not have the same effect on the populace as 9/11?

I think we should be open to have our minds blown by the corruptness that imperialist powers are capable of, but we should avoid useless speculation when it is far more convincing to use cold hard facts.

Jimmie Higgins

16th February 2006, 19:01

Conspiracy theories come from two places:

1. Conspiracy theories of an all-powerful ruling-class/government (for the right wing you can change these things for all-powerful UN/"jewish lobby") are a cynical justifucaltion for political inaction.

If the US is so powerful as to completly orchestrate history and events to make people believe whatever the US wants, then it is pointless to organize and fight, because then the US will just orchestrate something else to control mass consiousness.

Political action is pointelss against such a supernatural force and so we just have to sit around and wait for the US empire to fall like the Roman Empire... personally, I don't think the world should have to tolerate a few hundred more years of the US or CHina or whatever other Empire rises to opress the world's workers and peasants and so on.

2. That workers have bought into the ideas of the ruling class premanently and so it would take proof of something like George Bush eating a Hatian child live on national TV for them to "snap out of it".

Again, this formulation saves us the time of all that pesky organizing and debating with our fellow workers.

I remember during the anti-globalization movements, a lot of people would say, "you're a socialist, how old fasioned. Workers can't take power, they are too bought off. They only thing we can hope for is that some kind of huge disaster happens and shows the ineptitude of the government and then the people will take power back". I really want to know what thoes people think now, after 9/11 and Katrina. Few disaster in the US have been as shocking as these and yet there was no spontanious uprising. Any bigger disaster and there will be no people left to "rise up".

WUOrevolt

18th February 2006, 00:11

Are there things that the American govenrment isnt telling us? YES. But did they help engineer the 9/11 attacks, I have no idea.

Atlas Swallowed

18th February 2006, 19:09

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 07:28 PM

That workers have bought into the ideas of the ruling class premanently and so it would take proof of something like George Bush eating a Hatian child live on national TV for them to "snap out of it".
I think you are confuseing the working class with the middle class. The fellow workers near me are starting to relize that the future is grim for them and alot worse for thier children. Alot of the working class are teetering on poverty and have alot less to lose than the middle class. Uncovering how the government and media manipulate them and what who they truly serve could generate anger and the ball could start rolling.

The government would not kill the people they represent some of the people they represent who would normally be at the world trade center on 9-11 were at the same airforce base that Bush flew to later in the day.

http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/warnings.html

The government cooked up a similar scheme to 9-11 in 1962 to justify war with Cuba, fortunatly then it was rejected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Alot of the members of the current government were hoping for a Pearl Harbor type attack to push through thier agenda of American Imperilism far before 9-11.

article and documents dealing with subject

http://cryptome.org/rad.htm

Speaking of Pearl Harbor an attack the government could have prevented but let through so they could fight WWII.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2001/06-...7no12_facts.htm (http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2001/06-04-2001/vo17no12_facts.htm)

Maybe if people were aware of the what the people that make up the ruling class were really like and what they were capable of and how the media lies to them they would want to make changes. Go ahead and spout Bourghese and Proletariian at them. I prefer to give examples why the government needs to go.

This is not eating any children but is sick enough to any decent person.

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/food_for_...sm_jb_1995.html (http://www.schillerinstitute.org/food_for_peace/kiss_nssm_jb_1995.html)

A small percentage of the population controls most of the worlds wealth and power, for them to maintain this power takes an effort and plenty of actions that are detrimental to alot of people. They are not going to broadcast all of thier actions on the 6 o'clock news for obvious reasons. Fear is a great tool and they use it well. You may call this conspiracy theories as the government and media do. I call it common sense.

Scars

18th February 2006, 21:58

I do not buy any of the conspiracy theories about the events, nor do I support what was done...however I do find it incredibly hard to be sympathetic. It was a terrible thing, but it's way down the list. People care more because it was middle and upper class white folk dying, if a plane was flown into a building in say...Egypt by the Muslim Brotherhood I would not have to endure a zillion tributes and docos about the fucking attacks every September 11th, nor would it be considered a big or major thing. It would just be a large scale attack.

Kill a Palestinian and you're a hero, kill a black and you're defending yourself, kill a Jew and you're an anti-semite, kill an American and you're a fucking monster.

1984

20th February 2006, 01:33

I'd really NOT be surprised if it was all planned by the US government, as an excuse to promote the future military intermissions by the use of Bush's "campaign of fear". See, what does 3.000 people MEAN for an empire responsible for MILLIONS of victims around the world? That film Farenheit 9/11 has some footage that makes you think about it - especially that fool's face when he heard that "the nation was under attack" in that primary school.

enigma2517

20th February 2006, 22:44

Its still pointless...yeah so people realize our government is "corrupt".

Hmm surprise surprise. So lets elect...A DEMOCRAT. I mean really thats about as far as the whole 9/11 thing goes.

I'm not saying its not true. I'm just saying that its always going to be highly contested. People finding out the "truth" about it doesn't really change shit. You have to look beyond at the material basis for all of the world's suffering today. Thats when you can make a significant change.

Liberals who want to win the next election might find this of use,but conspriracy theories are pointless for communists.

Last time I checked, thats what this board was about.

Dreckt

20th February 2006, 23:08

In fact, the US was involved in the 9/11 attacks. It is pretty simple: the US mess in the Middle East, and of course they get to pay for their imperialism. Just like ETA, IRA and the Chechens are involved in attacking Spain, England and Russia.

Everything has a cause, so whatever happened we can be very sure that they didn't attack the US just because they felt for it one day. And specially when they sacrificed their own lives.

Wheter it is a conspiracy or not is another question. The first thing we need to ask is if the US are capable of creating a conspiracy? Well, of course they are - they're the most powerful nation on Earth. Okay, but why create a conspiracy? To lure it's people? Possible. You couldn't just get up and say "let's attack Iraq!", they needed something more (because Iraq wasn't really a "communist country" now, was it?).

Well, really, I don't know. I do know that a conspiracy can be real, and maybe it is only a matter of time before it happens. Terrorism, for example, is a perfect excuse for the government to set up survelliance - which is happening everywhere in the world. And how long will this "war on terror" be waged? Well, Rumsfeldt hinted on that it could be waged for decades to come - thus securing survelliance and public rights abuses for another 10-20 years to come.

And would they be willing to let go of that control after this "war"?

But I get the US picture. They want a war. They need it. They must set up a picture of an enemy - "us or them" - so that the public must choose. If there is an "enemy out there", people are teached to look out for that enemy, instead of what the state in their own country is doing. Hitler blamed much on the Jews, yet, was it the Jews who consolidated the power in Germany in the 1930's? Bush is blaming much on terrorism, yet is it the terrorists who implemented the Patriot Act 1 and 2? Was it the terrorists who set up secret survelliance in the US?

Oh, and I've been thinking about this mind-breaker: if the US has the power to change governments in any country anywhere in the world, how come they can't, with todays technology, trace from where the bin-Laden tapes are coming from?

Atlas Swallowed

21st February 2006, 00:50

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 11:11 PM
Its still pointless...yeah so people realize our government is "corrupt".

Hmm surprise surprise. So lets elect...A DEMOCRAT. I mean really thats about as far as the whole 9/11 thing goes.

I'm not saying its not true. I'm just saying that its always going to be highly contested. People finding out the "truth" about it doesn't really change shit. You have to look beyond at the material basis for all of the world's suffering today. Thats when you can make a significant change.

Liberals who want to win the next election might find this of use,but conspriracy theories are pointless for communists.

Last time I checked, thats what this board was about.
No the Democrats used fake terrorism with the OKC bombing to unsucessfully try to push through the same laws as the patriotic act. This is not about partisan politics, both sides are the same. Revolution will only come when a large percentage of the populance is enraged. This with other examples of government manipulation might piss enough people off. The crap the media and government push on us are theories, they tell us what happen yet have little or no proof to back it up. If you wish to take that as the gospel thats your problem but do not critisize those who choose to find information elsewhere. If an entity lies to you on a repeated basis is not common sense to assume they are lying until proven otherwise? The burden of proof lies on the government and the media and they have proved nothing but the fact that they are well versed in cover up and misinformation.

By the way we are not all Communists on this board some of us are Socialists and Anarchists. Maybe it is of no use to Communism and maybe some of us do not care what is good for Communism because we do not want to trade one set of rulers for another.

Ricardo

21st February 2006, 05:29

I dont see how people on this sight, who oppose our government, automatically believe that the government had no knowledge or involvement in the attacks, and accept the "official" report that was fed to us, there theory of what happened is just as much a conspiracy theory as others, since theres is backed up by less facts than the Loose Chang documentary and other theories

Also, this conspiracy could be extremely helpful to communists, how could it not? Think about it. If the American public found out that for 5 years they were being lied to but Bush and the whole government about something as big as the 9/11 attacks, how would they react? They would be furious and then would be the time for Commies to win the peoples hearts and mind

jaycee

26th February 2006, 13:41

it seems extremely likely to me that 9/11 was allowed to happen by the american state as an excuse to start a world offensive to restate thair doninance as the leading imperialist power. there is simply 2 much evidence to ignore, American leaders said themselves they wanted a 'cataclysmic event, like a new pearl harbour' to whip up support for new imperialist adventures. No planes were scrambled for at least an hour after news of the hi-jaking (that is usually standard procedure and law), The terrorists were allowed to train in american flight schools despite their actions being suspicious and reported to the fbi where the complaint was stopped from going anywhere and the fact that at least one of them was on a list of terror suspects. the list goes on and on but i can't remember all the details now off the top of my head, i suggest you read 'the new pearl harbour' (i can't remember who its by though.

But my main point is simply that calling anyidea that there are forces which work behind closed doors a conspiracy theory puts is handy for the bourgeoisie because it lumps the idea of the ruking class in that of a world jewish conpiracy, giant shape shifting lizards etc.

'police and the army them a legal murderers/
of course their are cover ups/ of course theres conspiracies/ otherwise why the fuck to they really need the secret services/
clues in the name come on people wake up, when they say that this democracy thats just some fuckry/
coz the civil service, secret service, big business, pigs and the army really run the country/
they ain't elected they just stay in power/
and the government works for them not the otherway round sooooooo'

just some lyrics which are quite relevent

Winter

27th February 2006, 14:28

I don't believe all "conspiracy theories" should be overlooked. Some, such as the "Loose Change" documentary show us a very likely possibility. Eyewitness accounts, no plane wreckage, "terrorist" still alive, fake Bin Laden's ( did you see how fat that guy was??? ), explosions going off in the twin towers, a son addressing his mother with his first and last name? What's that all about?! Those who aren't part of the aristrocratic elite are expendible. Fear keeps the American people in check.
~ Winter

Simotix

27th February 2006, 17:02

Originally posted by !Injustice!@Feb 14 2006, 04:14 AM
do u believe that the american goverment knew about the attack
I believe they said they knew about the attack already ...

The situtation I find funny now is that Bush is allowing an Arab company buy six US ports, which is just plain idiocy if he is having a "war on terror" ... or "reign of choas".

enigma2517

28th February 2006, 12:55

You guys are still missing it I see.

:\

You must differentiate between HOW and WHY.

How do modern nation-states whip their citizens into a nationalistic fervor and send them out to fight each other?

Lots of the different ways! Actually, the Nazi party hired a mentally retarded man to burn down the Reichstag, then they blamed it on the Communists and used it as an excuse for aggression against slavs/leftists/etc.

Nothing new there! Is this 9/11 possible? YES! I've seen all the tapes I used to be very intrigued by it myself and I think there are definetely facts out there that are close to irrefutable.

But then I stopped and said...why?

This is what happens when we watch too much TV I guess. We need some huge climactic moment to set us into motion.

Has anybody looked at the ghettos lately? The conditions in the work sector? Have you ever SEEN somebody at work? Whether its a steel mill or a coffee shop, people everywhere are WAGE SLAVES. They are having their labor stolen right from under them. They are...miserable.

Is that not enough for your revolution? Do we need some kind of huge sensational event?

Once again, it shows HOW the government screwed us over in this particular instance, but what does it do for analyzing this in terms of CLASS?

Because that is, and always has been the main issue. Exposing conspiracies has almost never worked. By the time we find out about it, Bush will be long gone and it will fade from people's minds. But how hard is it to expose capitalism? Its definetely a longer battle but at least at the end it will go somewhere.

Atlas Swallowed

28th February 2006, 13:31

Maybe a combination of both would be even more effective :)

emokid08

28th February 2006, 21:44

I think that 9/11 was carried out by the US gov't. That whole day just stands out as mind numbing. I think that 9/11 is one of the most important things to happen to the world, not just the US. I think it's a very interesting topic and that it's always relevent to discuss.
Alot of people say that 9/11 changed everything.......well according to the Capitalist "Common Account" it changed the laws of pysichs too.

www.911research.com (http://www.911research.com)

The truth is at the website above. It's not a bunch of nut jobs, it's not a bunch of theorists, it just lays the facts out and lets YOU connect the dots.

It really is absolutely horrifying what the Bush Crime Family and the Saudi Gov't did to us that day. It's even scarier figureing it out for yourself.
This website hit me like a mack truck,learning the truth after being fed Imperialist bullshit all the time is like smashing into a brick wall.

I hope it opens your eyes too.

Punk Rocker

1st March 2006, 01:14

Calling anything a "conspiracy theory" is bullshit, if watergate and shit like that hadn't been proved, people would call them conspiracy theories.

There is so much about what happened on 9/11 that just makes no sense to anyone who can fucking think for themselves.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the government planned this to make people feel like they have to support anything the government does against evil killers.

Iroquois Xavier

1st March 2006, 10:33

Hmmm? the amount of surveillance in America and they couldn't see three planes going extremely off course and crashing into the biggest buildings (not any more) in New York and the Pentagon in Washington DC. Either they are a stupid as we think or they knew about it and did nothing...which is stupid either way. :rolleyes:

enigma2517

2nd March 2006, 03:10

yeah thats true...airplanes don't just leave flight paths and have nothing happen for almost an hour.

and steel buildings don't collapse at the speed of freefall. if they collapse at all from fire.

So don't get me wrong, I know what you guys are talking about, I just don't see it having anything to do with proletarian revolution.

Dreckt

3rd March 2006, 00:15

On the other hand, I think people also need to think critically. Don't just look at the conspiracy theory and agree with it because it was done by the US government.

For example, some "conspiracy extremists" still don't believe that the moon landing ever happened. You can surely find one or the other video on one of those "sites where things are free". The most common, I think, are that the shadows are wrong (on the moon surface), how they could get this or that picture, why don't we see this, or why are they not affected by the heat/freeze on the moon? What about the sun's deadly rays, etc.

The fact is that the moon conspiracy falls appart when we ask ourselves "how could NASA be so stupid?". I mean, NASA is one of the leading space agencies on earth, thus they must have really smart people there to be exploring on a new and very dangerous front.

So, if they are so smart, how come they never anticipated all these "mistakes" that, if they were true, really expose the landings as fakes? How come people with no experience in space travelling could expose something as that?

My point here is that they would rethink everything, down into the smallest detail. If a test can be done on earth that can expose a fake in the project, then of course they would have made that test. If something is only possible in space, and couldn't be prooven here on our planet, then of course they can play along with it, because they know no-one can make such an experiment. And also the punch-line: if the moon and space projects were fake, why do they keep sending people up in space?

And the same needs to be done with 9/11. We're not talking about some group here, we're talking about the US government, the most powerful organization on earth today. Thus the question: would they be so stupid as to forget these things? Is the US government that stupid?

Then we also have the counter-argument: can they really account for every little thing in the attacks? All the people? The tapes? What was said in the media? What were people thinking right after the attacks? I'd say they were shocked - could they think about a conspiracy when people were dying?

The fact is that Bush had time to set all his plans into motion before videos such as the one posted on this thread could appear, and people seeing and reading them without being shocked anymore.