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SmithSmith
13th February 2006, 20:15
It seems like everywhere I turn the "left" is losing and losing and the "right" is gaining ground over the media, information, history, politics, schools, universities, culture and society.

The left doesn't seem to be doing a great job or has an ounce of the power the right has. It is reality most lefty movements always fail, it seems like the right always manages to turn the table and label lefty movements as terrorists, bad, and idiots. We all know that anti the truth but big media networks portray this and people are buying it. For shit sake it is an insult to be a "lefty", being a lefty means something is wrong with you. Why are lefties not able to fight all these fallacies and deceptions that are adding up everyday? Hundreds and hundreds of people are willing to shoot your ass if they can for just being a lefty.

The bad side in me tells me who cares, most people are assholes anyways and capitalism serves them great.

The good side in me, tells me socialism is the way forward and a socialist world would be much better and simpler for everyone.

It seems like the whole left has been downgraded to internet forums and hide away places.

At least here in America, and America anti doing a bad job to make sure the same is happening aboard.

Anyone else feels like the left is losing the ideological battle?.

boosh logic
13th February 2006, 20:23
It seems like everywhere I turn the "left" is losing and losing and the "right" is gaining ground over the media, information, history, politics, schools, universities, culture and society.


The right owns the media, information, history, politics, etc. They are bourgoisie institutions, they are not gaining, capitalism already has everything - to quote Marx on the proletariat (albeit cliche) "They have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win."

While the idea of leftism is drilled into society as bad, what most people don't realise is that their ideas of wanting equality amongst races and sexes are actually the foundations of communism (if you add in class equality). Communism has a bad name from the anti-left propaganda that is everywhere, as the ruling class is comfortable and wants to keep it that way. I disagree with you on saying the right is gaining with media, as the constant outrages such as illegal wars and race biased aid donations are opening peoples eyes to the inequalities in the world, even if it is a very drawn-out process.

loveme4whoiam
13th February 2006, 20:24
We are winning the ideological battle, since our ideology is better :P But we are losing the propaganda war. We have next to no media influence (I can only speak for UK, but I assume the US is worse), and most people are ignorant of what Communism and Anarchism actually are. They may not support the right (or maybe they do - the ignorance of today's youth doesn't bode well for us), but they see the left as a non-entity. This must change.

I imagine this thread will loop around to a violence/non-violence argument, which is unfortunate. SS is right on the money, and we have to halt this decline soon, else forums like this will end up being the only place that lefty ideology is supported.

Kia
13th February 2006, 20:33
Ill agree, especially living in america you see a steady rise of Right wing groups gaining more and more political ground.
This may be due to a 'wave" trend that happens in politics. During the 60-70-80s, the left gained huge ground in the political battlefield. Maybe right now is the rightwing backlash to those past event. Dont stop believing in what we know is right, and we'll be able to come back with more force then ever.
History has taught us that almost all great revolutionary and cultural changes has come from the left.

Global_Justice
13th February 2006, 20:50
south america is moving to the left. we just have to look at them :lol:

Wanted Man
13th February 2006, 21:07
The left is dying? Degraded to wallowing in its own self-pity on the internet? You'd have to be either extremely moronic to believe that, or maybe you never actually go outside to do party work. :lol: You seem to think that leftist activism is all about "Oh, fuck, the Republicans have gained a bit in the polls, let's just give up and cry about it on RevLeft!"

100 dollars that you've never been a member of a communist party. Another 100 that you do not understand the concept of "class struggle". I'd be willing to throw in yet another 100 dollars to bet that the only leftist "theory" you've read, consists of short essays by petty-bourgeois teenagers with the same amount of knowledge as you do.
The media will keep holding is back, causing us to never win? You must be joking. I only have to look at the latest (failed) attempts by local mass media to either silent or slander my party. This does not mean that my party is dying, but that it is getting recognition and fear from the bourgeoisie, triggering its reactionary ways to stop it. Of course, "the left is dying" in your eyes, because you've probably never even seen eye to eye with a worker.
You've never been organised, you only watch what happens from your computer. The one coming to the internet to wallow in self-pity is you. The real communist movement exists right out there on the streets, it is not confined to RevLeft(thank God! :D). See the little Flash that sometimes appears on this forum? "Get up off your ass and do something!"? Why aren't you?


south america is moving to the left. we just have to look at them
While I'm definitely not as short-sighted as some people are, who cheer on reformist social-democrats like Bachelet, I don't think anyone can ignore the fact that the third world is freeing itself from the clutches of imperialism. And the workers' movement's grip on the capital is tightening further and further.

loveme4whoiam
13th February 2006, 21:27
I disagree with you on saying the right is gaining with media, as the constant outrages such as illegal wars and race biased aid donations are opening peoples eyes to the inequalities in the world, even if it is a very drawn-out process.
Good point, although the lack of understanding I talked about is preventing people from making the leap from "The world is unfair" to "We can make it fair". Make that message clear to everyone, and I'd say that the battle is half-won. Or at least, one-third.


The left is dying? Degraded to wallowing in its own self-pity on the internet? You'd have to be either extremely moronic to believe that, or maybe you never actually go outside to do party work. :lol:
True, I've never done any party work. The reason: I know of no party that I can work for. Before I joined RevLeft I had never heard of the Free People's Movement (who I plan to join by the way), or any of the other international groups that guys on here belong to. This is why the left, if it is not in decline, then at least has stalled in its aim of gaining the support of the masses.


The real communist movement exists right out there on the streets
Does it?? Go into any factory and say "Under Communism things will be better for us all", you'd be likely to get away with just being insulted. Like I said in another post, people don't see leftism as a viable alternative.


See the little Flash that sometimes appears on this forum? "Get up off your ass and do something!"? Why aren't you?
I will do, trust me. I'm glad that you are out there working for the interests of the left, only doing so can increase support. But I hardly think that Communism is out on the streets - so far all I can see is "Duccan iz a big GAY" out there. In decline; perhaps not with guys like you. On the rise; not yet.

Kia
13th February 2006, 21:51
Try talking to general populace and see what they think is going on instead of keeping yourself bottled upinside those elitist leftist attitudes that so many "revolutionary left" have these days. If the general population feels the right is gaining more ground, then you know what..theyre probably right. We gain no ground if the general population doesnt accept or even understand our ideas.
The Mainstream media isnt afraid of leftist parties (south america may be a differant a story), its laughing at us. If the general population doesnt see, hear, or notice anything going on by the left...how the hell are they going to see how corrupt their government is and realize its time for change? Magic revolutionary fairies are suppose to fly down with ak47s and overthrow the government for us? i think not. loveme4whoiam is completely right. Most people have NO IDEA what communism or anarchy is at all, they think we're either stalin loving maniacs, or little kids shouting "fuck the government", trying to vent their teenage angst. I live in San Francisco, a haven for leftism..and 3/4 of the people here dont even know what real communism or anarchy is!
Stop chatting in your little party groups and doing your little unimportant demonstrations. Explain to a friend of your who doesnt know what communism is, what it really means. Tell his friend too. The more people that know what we are all really about, the more likely they are to agree with us.
The right has a tight grip on the general population all throughout the world. North America is rapidly swinging right wing conservative. Western europe is demolishing its civil rights, one law at a time. The Middle east is still caught in a ridiculous religious war. Asia is turning capitalist faster then we can speak(nepal and a few other countries may differ). Africa is still ruled by hunger and ridiculous revolutions that are led by warlords and monarchs. South America may be our only obvious and truly internationaly notible gain in the leftist movement.
Realize that we are trying to change the world for millions of people, not just a few.


i owe you a 100$, i have never belonged to a party. I havnt found any party that i agree with.

SmithSmith
13th February 2006, 22:13
I was going to reply to Matthijs but loveme4whoiam and Kia said it all.

You could join those left parties and groups and stuff but when the masses don't know what the heck you are talking about, or supporting you it is useless. Why would they trust you anyways when most of their lives they have been taught leftism is evil or have never been introduced to lefty thinking? Once people reach old age they are hard to change or teach new ideas.

Everyone can do their thing to straightened the left.


You have to admit the US government is doing a great job at countering lefty movements.

red team
13th February 2006, 23:26
The revolution will not be televised.

RNK
13th February 2006, 23:36
What needs to happen is a mass educational experience. I've met Americans and others who honestly have no idea about ANY of the theories and ideas of Communism, but hate it nonetheless. They do not know why they hate it, just that they do, that they've been taught to. 60 years of Cold War between the USSR and the West didn't help.

What people need is not to be informed about the Left specifically but informed about political awareness universally. it's been said before; the basic values Communism stands for are values almost everyone believes in; social, economic, racial and ethnic equality; universally free health and education; free or cheap products and services, etc.

Instead of simply attacking Capitalism, and making us seem like antagonists and alienated individuals, we should be trying to educate people about all political ideas and systems, and give people the tool to choose themselves. Because I can guarantee the vast majority of the US population inparticular have no clue what Communism actually means. They probably don't even know what Capitalism means.

SmithSmith
14th February 2006, 00:03
Originally posted by red [email protected] 13 2006, 11:53 PM
The revolution will not be televised.
You and who?

Seong
14th February 2006, 03:29
You & Who what SmithSmith?

Ernest I think you've hit the nail on the head. Historically there has been so much anti-left propaganda that has stigmatized 'Communism.' Most people have no idea what it is and simply relate it to controversial and violent figures like Stalin and Mao. Obviously this belief coudn't be more wrong, but it's just become a reflex for a lot of people to go "Communism? Communism=bad. Grunt." :P

ReD_ReBeL
14th February 2006, 03:38
'The Left Is Dying' can only come out of the mouth of a failed man.A man who is pessimistic.A man whos fire is going out, i can only give you the sticks but you have to get the rest of the fire going yourself.

Kia
14th February 2006, 04:34
I dont think he means that the left is actually vanishing, but rather we are loosing ground in our struggle. Being pessimistic doesnt mean your wrong, its the truth.

I agree with both Ernest & Seong. The general population and even modern day politicians still have stigmated views about communists and anarchists. When i first began realizing the beauty of communism/anarchy many people continually told me to read 1984, telling me that this was what a world would look like if we had our way.....
education is a major key for the leftist victory over the right.

So far there is little televised about the revolutions going on across the world. This will change as years go by. Television is no longer a luxury, its sadly an essential in all western world houses. TV will become a vital source of information, propoganda, and debate for both sides.

Wanted Man
14th February 2006, 08:06
Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 09:54 PM
True, I've never done any party work. The reason: I know of no party that I can work for. Before I joined RevLeft I had never heard of the Free People's Movement (who I plan to join by the way), or any of the other international groups that guys on here belong to. This is why the left, if it is not in decline, then at least has stalled in its aim of gaining the support of the masses.
Well, glad to hear that you're planning to join FPM. But that doesn't mean that we have somehow "stalled". I've no idea what kind of actions the FPM participates in, either, but right now I would seriously recommend you take a look at the RCP and see what they're doing: they're getting more people in more cities to demonstrate against Bush with their "World Can't Wait" organisation every day. Not to say that you should join RCP, but they do clearly point out that more people are getting interested in revolutionary anti-capitalist action.


Does it?? Go into any factory and say "Under Communism things will be better for us all", you'd be likely to get away with just being insulted. Like I said in another post, people don't see leftism as a viable alternative.
Did I say that you should go into a random factory and announce the revolution? No, I said on the streets, on places where you'll actually find people sensitive to your ideas. Don't you have any strikes, unions, elections, or whatever, where you live?


I will do, trust me. I'm glad that you are out there working for the interests of the left, only doing so can increase support. But I hardly think that Communism is out on the streets - so far all I can see is "Duccan iz a big GAY" out there. In decline; perhaps not with guys like you. On the rise; not yet.
It's not about me, I'm just wondering where the defeatist attitude of some people on here come from. Once you -regularly- get out there with your comrades to directly show your support for the struggle of the working class, I doubt you'd still be able to say that the movement is somehow stagnating.


Try talking to general populace and see what they think is going on instead of keeping yourself bottled upinside those elitist leftist attitudes that so many "revolutionary left" have these days. If the general population feels the right is gaining more ground, then you know what..theyre probably right. We gain no ground if the general population doesnt accept or even understand our ideas.
To you, too, I have to ask: what are you doing about it? Also, how is it elitist to say, "get out, join the party and start leafleting"? If the "general population" has no understanding of "real communism", why don't you go tell them? No, you don't go out on the street to speak to rant to total randoms who might not even be interested, but that's where organisation comes in. What is stopping the party from having a stand with leaflets, literature and merchandise(we sell Che posters, Che linen bags, and sometimes shirts) at some kind of fair? We sometimes go around the block trying to sell our newspapers, sometimes with pamphlets about things like the European Constitution(back in June) or the elections inside them.


The Mainstream media isnt afraid of leftist parties (south america may be a differant a story), its laughing at us.
Or rather, they publish nothing, except slanders, and make it look like your resistance doesn't mean anything. It seems to work on you. :)


If the general population doesnt see, hear, or notice anything going on by the left...how the hell are they going to see how corrupt their government is and realize its time for change? Magic revolutionary fairies are suppose to fly down with ak47s and overthrow the government for us? i think not.
Again: why aren't you helping out in making people notice something?


loveme4whoiam is completely right. Most people have NO IDEA what communism or anarchy is at all, they think we're either stalin loving maniacs, or little kids shouting "fuck the government", trying to vent their teenage angst. I live in San Francisco, a haven for leftism..and 3/4 of the people here dont even know what real communism or anarchy is!
Comrades only look like "Stalin loving maniacs" if they get drawn out by petty-bourgeois concerns like "Communism eh? But didn't Stalin kill 600 bajillion of its own people?" that are completely unrelated, yet still causes some comrades to bother arguing with such people, making them look like a bunch of apologetics. A quick, confident answer to such questions works wonders. As for the angsty teenagers part; again, that view is only created by those anarchists who are only interested in rioting with the cops. It won't happen to any comrades who know what they're doing.


Stop chatting in your little party groups and doing your little unimportant demonstrations. Explain to a friend of your who doesnt know what communism is, what it really means. Tell his friend too. The more people that know what we are all really about, the more likely they are to agree with us.
The meetings that you refer to as "chatting in [our] little party groups" matter quite a bit more than you think. How else will a party develop a proper line, decide what actions to participate in, how to handle current events, etc., if it does not meet from time to time? And what's wrong with a demonstration? Demonstrations are a great venue to sell your literature and pass on your ideas if there ever was one. A communist party shows that it stands for the working class when it shows it solidarity for them in both actions and words: by marching there, AND by the pamphlets they've written on the matter at hand. Right now, our communist party is the ONLY party that shows any kind of solidarity for the people whose cheap houses are about to be demolished, as opposed to the passive attitude of the "Socialist" Party and the other parties, which are all in favour.


The right has a tight grip on the general population all throughout the world. North America is rapidly swinging right wing conservative. Western europe is demolishing its civil rights, one law at a time. The Middle east is still caught in a ridiculous religious war. Asia is turning capitalist faster then we can speak(nepal and a few other countries may differ). Africa is still ruled by hunger and ridiculous revolutions that are led by warlords and monarchs. South America may be our only obvious and truly internationaly notible gain in the leftist movement.
Realize that we are trying to change the world for millions of people, not just a few.
I don't give a flying fuck about what the bourgeoisie is doing to restrict civil rights. It does not mean we're somehow "dying". If anything, people are getting more and more tired of it.


i owe you a 100$, i have never belonged to a party. I havnt found any party that i agree with.
Yeah, good luck trying to find a party with which you fully concur on both theory and practice. Or maybe you could take the "redstar2000" approach and point at Leninist parties with the finger while being passive yourself. :lol:


You could join those left parties and groups and stuff but when the masses don't know what the heck you are talking about, or supporting you it is useless. Why would they trust you anyways when most of their lives they have been taught leftism is evil or have never been introduced to lefty thinking? Once people reach old age they are hard to change or teach new ideas.
I haven't met many people who don't know what we're talking about. Of course, the point is to do so as the communist party, not as the "Revolutionary Internationalist Socialist Group of Workers Committed To The 195th International". :lol:

Finally, surely you're able to see the difference between realistically pointing out what's going wrong, and the defeatist attitude of "Oh no, we're dying!"?

Husky42
14th February 2006, 08:44
So, I go into barnes and noble today and start looking at some books on Globalization and conservation of the planet. A worker at the store comes up and ask me if I need any help I mention globalization and his eyes light up. This individual was very much into a socialistic mindset and we exchanged email addresses and discussed possibly starting a discussion group.

I myself publish a daily news feed of Pro Communist media in a Communist paper. Granted the paper is only done with printer paper and stapled together. However I put this paper all around town and pass it out to coworkers and freinds who have expressed an interest. I included my email address and have been slammed with emails asking me where I get my news.. I think this all amounts to the fact I publish articles from around the world and usually provide information not on any local or news networks like CNN or MSNBC. People love reading what I have to offer.

My cubicle at work has a picture of joe hill with the Dont mourn for me Organize quote. I have a picture of the Israeli Security wall and a Boy hanging off a tank. I have Antifa related materials and no so famous communistic quotes. I get questions and I explain. Alot of people ask me more and more questions every day and I have made freinds doing this. To me within just my daily life I see the Left growing from only my little personal influence. So if you think its not growing.. then do something about it.

redstar2000
14th February 2006, 13:26
Originally posted by Matthijs
Or maybe you could take the "redstar2000" approach and point at Leninist parties with the finger while being passive yourself.

Always nice to get a plug. :D

Yes, one can always sign up with some Leninist cargo-cult and go through the same futile motions that won us all such magnificent victories in the last century. :lol:

Matthijs is evidently especially impressed with the "Revolutionary" "Communist" Party -- though he neglected to hype that "living Marx" -- Bob Avakian. :lol:

They'll probably give him a warning point for that oversight. :lol:

Meanwhile, what's my "passive" recommendation?

I was actually impressed by Husky42's post...he's getting some ideas out there without being constrained by archaic Leninist foolishness. He's not "building a party"...he's spreading ideas.

He gets no headlines in the bourgeois press and no dummyvision interviews; he just gets people to thinking.

SmithSmith's extreme pessimism to the contrary notwithstanding, I think there are more people than he imagines who are doing exactly that...getting people to start thinking again.

That is, by the way, the real function of a message board like this one...to get people to start thinking again about communist revolution.

As far as the ruling class is concerned, communism is "dead". As far as the general population is concerned, it's something that was a "big deal" in their childhood or even before they were born.

It's really day one again...like it was back when Marx and Engels were writing the first drafts of the Communist Manifesto.

The revolutionary left is not "dying"...it's waiting to be born.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Guerrilla22
14th February 2006, 16:51
In Latin America the left is gaining ground, however the possibility of another country other than Cuba going completely socialist is rather unlikely.

Husky42
14th February 2006, 18:04
Originally posted by redstar2000+Feb 14 2006, 01:53 PM--> (redstar2000 @ Feb 14 2006, 01:53 PM)
Matthijs
Or maybe you could take the "redstar2000" approach and point at Leninist parties with the finger while being passive yourself.

Always nice to get a plug. :D

Yes, one can always sign up with some Leninist cargo-cult and go through the same futile motions that won us all such magnificent victories in the last century. :lol:

Matthijs is evidently especially impressed with the "Revolutionary" "Communist" Party -- though he neglected to hype that "living Marx" -- Bob Avakian. :lol:

They'll probably give him a warning point for that oversight. :lol:

Meanwhile, what's my "passive" recommendation?

I was actually impressed by Husky42's post...he's getting some ideas out there without being constrained by archaic Leninist foolishness. He's not "building a party"...he's spreading ideas.

He gets no headlines in the bourgeois press and no dummyvision interviews; he just gets people to thinking.

SmithSmith's extreme pessimism to the contrary notwithstanding, I think there are more people than he imagines who are doing exactly that...getting people to start thinking again.

That is, by the way, the real function of a message board like this one...to get people to start thinking again about communist revolution.

As far as the ruling class is concerned, communism is "dead". As far as the general population is concerned, it's something that was a "big deal" in their childhood or even before they were born.

It's really day one again...like it was back when Marx and Engels were writing the first drafts of the Communist Manifesto.

The revolutionary left is not "dying"...it's waiting to be born.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif [/b]
Redstar. I agree with you. I think that building a "Communist Society" on Lenninst theory is not the way to go, I do support much of leninist belief although as you stated "archaic" is definately the term. So I concur.

I am actually a huge fan of your papers and have them all in a notebook and printed for reading and reference. I hope you do not mind but I have also used your definition of communism and definition of socialism as propoganda by sharing it with freinds and spreading it in the public world as I thought they were that well written.


Why can one not Educate and Inform others through peacefull communication. I do not go out of my way to educated and "show" an average person on the street the way but instead allow people to come to me by showing them things they are not used to seeing.

People are free to read the papers I place around town. It is clearly a communist publication and I even warn readers at the begining of it about its content.. I truly think this actually makes more people interested because they automatically think.. ohh fanatical extremist lies.. then they read it and see the truth and arent so turned off.

My art and propoganda on my Cubicle is non confrontational and begs people to ask questions. One to two times a week I get questions regarding my Antifa banner. I explain what the group is. What they do and why I am against Facism. Many people naturally agree that they are anti-facist then the conversations wonders to politics and where they stand. I then show these people the facism occuring within their own parties.

I have my first discussion group tonight. We advertised it in a local free non-profit paper. Right now it is a Anti-Globalization discussion group but as we progess I will slowly feed the people bits of truth and needed change that favors Communist society. We shall see how this works.

Anyways... I do not believe in direct confrontation but peacefull communication as starting point for bulding a communist society.

Wanted Man
14th February 2006, 18:17
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 01:53 PM
Always nice to get a plug. :D

Yes, one can always sign up with some Leninist cargo-cult and go through the same futile motions that won us all such magnificent victories in the last century. :lol:
You're welcome. It's funny that you should point at the last century as "evidence" of the failure of Leninism. Especially considering that your vague ultra-leftism has not been heard in those times at all. :lol:


Matthijs is evidently especially impressed with the "Revolutionary" "Communist" Party -- though he neglected to hype that "living Marx" -- Bob Avakian. :lol:
False. I do not give a flying fuck about Avakian, and the fact that the RCP is based around some guy hiding out in France is a rather obvious negative point about them. I mentioned the RCP because they are a good example of, ah, the left not dying. But then again, maybe I should have used you as an example instead. Getting a random on an internet forum to print your works is an impressive feat to be sure! :lol: Good job, redstar, you certainly showed those Leninists their failure - after all, taking control of a third of the world, and becoming one of the most influential political ideas of an entire century, is certainly nothing compared to prompting "Husky42" to read "Crap Without the Marxism" out loud to his friends. :lol: I'm sure that when the workers rise up, they will automatically put "redstar-ism" in practice without any action from that movement at all. :lol:


I was actually impressed by Husky42's post...he's getting some ideas out there without being constrained by archaic Leninist foolishness. He's not "building a party"...he's spreading ideas.

He gets no headlines in the bourgeois press and no dummyvision interviews; he just gets people to thinking.
Wow, I'm impressed, he got a guy in the bookstore to discuss globalisation with him. Sounds like the catalyst of the great redstar-ist workers' revolution. :lol:


It's really day one again...like it was back when Marx and Engels were writing the first drafts of the Communist Manifesto.

The revolutionary left is not "dying"...it's waiting to be born.
Ah, the wishful thinking of someone who has witnessed history for the last 60 years or so, and now rejects it all, as if an ages-old history of class struggle is gone. Well, except for those bits where Marx didn't write about dialectics, they're swell, of course. :lol:

SmithSmith
14th February 2006, 19:48
Like other said:
Dying is causing a lot of trouble here because most are hardcore lefties. It is the wrong word to use, what I mean is the "left" is losing ground or in my view not growing steady it is like a boom and bust movement. I meet workers who seem to think being a lefty is something bad or are ashamed of being one. All in all I think the "right" has done a good job at presenting misinformation about leftism but the "left" is slowly countering that misinformation and deception.

Matthijs: It is really not a defeatist attitude it is what is with wrong with the "left" it has many obstacles to pass and face. The "left" has a long way to go like redstar2000 said it is waiting to be reborn.

The environment used to be a left issue now the right has hijacked that, it seems like the right is good at hijacking ideas.

The biggest obstacle the "left" faces is the information war. It lacks mass media and 24/7 covering.

A Canadian intellectual socialist who is now dead during his time he was blacklisted from entering the US to teach just because he was known as a socialist.

SmithSmith
14th February 2006, 19:55
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 05:18 PM
In Latin America the left is gaining ground, however the possibility of another country other than Cuba going completely socialist is rather unlikely.
True, but the US is waiting to interfere any second. And they are already using the fear card here, South America is turning left equals red lights, danger and evil.

A big advantage the "right" has is the ability to mobilize in a faster way to counter anything that opposes them

SmithSmith
14th February 2006, 20:11
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 12:03 AM
What needs to happen is a mass educational experience. I've met Americans and others who honestly have no idea about ANY of the theories and ideas of Communism, but hate it nonetheless. They do not know why they hate it, just that they do, that they've been taught to. 60 years of Cold War between the USSR and the West didn't help.

What people need is not to be informed about the Left specifically but informed about political awareness universally. it's been said before; the basic values Communism stands for are values almost everyone believes in; social, economic, racial and ethnic equality; universally free health and education; free or cheap products and services, etc.

Instead of simply attacking Capitalism, and making us seem like antagonists and alienated individuals, we should be trying to educate people about all political ideas and systems, and give people the tool to choose themselves. Because I can guarantee the vast majority of the US population inparticular have no clue what Communism actually means. They probably don't even know what Capitalism means.
True, most people think of politics as boring and have no idea how it affects their everyday life.

I wonder why politics or economics aren't compulsory courses in high school. :lol: Why would the same system that is trying to keep the masses content, silent, and illiterate empower them to challenge them.

It is not like it would make a difference anyways most political and economic courses teach how good capitalism is and how it is the only great system. You never hear of the downfalls.

redstar2000
14th February 2006, 21:40
Originally posted by Matthijs
It's funny that you should point at the last century as "evidence" of the failure of Leninism. Especially considering that your vague ultra-leftism has not been heard in those times at all.

No...and there was no Leninism in the 18th century either.

To each perspective there is a time... :D


Good job, redstar, you certainly showed those Leninists their failure - after all, taking control of a third of the world, and becoming one of the most influential political ideas of an entire century, is certainly nothing...

Both Christianity and Islam did better than that. :lol:

However, who am I to question your strategy of Grand Nostalgia?

Don't forget Lenin on Sex and Love. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=45539) :lol:


Ah, the wishful thinking of someone who has witnessed history for the last 60 years or so, and now rejects it all, as if an ages-old history of class struggle is gone.

It's not a matter of "rejecting history", professor, it's a matter of learning from it.

Something that folks like yourself find rather scandalous, to be sure.

A lack of filial piety or something like that, right? :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

YSR
14th February 2006, 22:39
I remember reading in a recent issue of the Atlantic Monthly (bourgeois, oh no!) an article about US President Abraham Lincoln. It mentioned how studies have shown those who are depressed tend to see the world more realisticly. Sorry I don't have the citation at hand, but I think it's an interesting idea nonetheless.

I want to get back to a point that SmithSmith made in his first post, that leftist movements almost always fail and that right-wingers always have the power. I agree. But I think that's the nature of our current paradigm. Right-wingers tend to do well because of their tools and they perpetuate this power with them. And they will continue to do so.

But even as we fail, we leave instructions and inspiration for those to come. I'll use my favorite example, Catalonia in the Spanish Civil War. Sure, the anarchists/socialists/unaligned communists lost the ideological war to the Communists and then the physical war to the Fascists, but they left their mark. For instance, I use them as an inspiration. Many of you do, no doubt. So even as we fail, we create a larger base of knowledge, hopefully help the people pick themselves up, and leave our mark.

No offense, Matthijs, but you seem pretty quick to jump all over other comrades viewpoints and down their throats for not acting in what you define as revolutionary actions. True, I agree, sitting around and complaining on RevLeft is not the most revolutionary act in the world. But I think, with all due respect, that it is your speediness to accuse that is why the left has historically done poorly, not the right-wing. We turn upon ourselves. Then the liberals hijack our message without the content and the conservatives win the day.

This was rambling, but I think it makes sense.