ID Cards

[Comrade Yastrebkov]

As many of you may know, today the UK government pushed through its ID crd legislation in parliament with a majority of 31.

Having already banned protest around Downing Street and Westminster and introducing "shoot to kill", it is also proposing new laws against "glorification of terrorism" as well as longer detention without trial under new anti-terror laws. It seems that George Orwell's vision of a Big Brother state is finally taking shape.

What are everyone's opinions on this?

[loveme4whoiam]

Hmm. Difficult one this. To the UK government bringing in ID cards - opposed. To ID cards in general - definitely in favour.

All the crap spouted by Brown about ID cards stopping terrorism is, obviously, cover for the Patriot Act-esque laws that you mention Comrade, and should be opposed as they make our jobs harder. However, I think that ID cards after the revolution will be a necessity in order for the economy to function.

[piet11111]

the netherlands already has an ID scheme for a few years now it does not work.
its horribly expensive to get such a card and the government is getting themselfes a load of new records to keep.

one guy even got jailed 3 days before they managed to get his identity even though he repeatedly stated his name his adress and even offered to go to his home and pick up his ID while a cop went with him.
but they refused so he offered to call his girlfriend to bring his ID ofcourse they also refused this.

to me this ID thing is just a way to get some money our of the poeple and to be able to haras poeple and under the "reasonable suspicion" rule they can do a body search for whatever if you fail to show an ID and evidently women are more suspicious then men.

i will not ever comply with the law that requires me to carry an ID even if it means getting arrested or a huge fine.

[Goatse]

Pointless.

Huge amount of money, and it won't change anything, except make lives even more awkward for the ordinary worker. Nothing will really stop the terrorists getting an ID card anyway, just like nothing stopped them getting passports.

[bolshevik butcher]

The worst thing is that you will need to buy one to use most basic services.

Yes it is clearly the capitalist state increasing its power, more worrying really is the creation of a database with all ths information on it.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I will refuse anything that requires me to carry such a card. I have given false data throughout my school life, higher education, and even on driving liscence/passport applications. I never update records, medical or otherwise, and never give real information online. I never have any shop cards, and my bank details are purposfully screwed.

We have a duty to make this fail. Keep all information as incorrect as possible.

[AK47]

]

The roll of ID cards needs to be vigilantly maintained to just that.
NO:
Checkpoints where your ID card must be produced.
Random ID card checks.
Restrictions on bank accounts linked to ID cards.
ECT, ECT, ECT,

[Alex Wolff]

Don't ID cards work on the principal of "you must have a passport and birth certificate to have one"? As in the most forged items of identification?

Come, come dystopia.

[Kia]

Welcome to the western world of background checks UK!
I have 3-4 god damn ID cards already, greencard, california id, california drivers license, etc....
(wish i could fake mine..but a greencard is hard as hell to get...and almost impossible to forge or fake...)
The people in the UK must fight this new system and point out all the flaws and loopholes that occur, the british government will realize how idiotic the system is and remove it in a couple years.
Dont bring one with you when your protesting or anything down that line, give them a tough time trying to figure out who the hell you are.

[drain.you]

You know, we fear these things and see our state going more and more to the right but in the end, the kick back to the left will be so big that we'll have a revolution lol. If the right wing trend of US and UK politics continues over the next years perhaps decades then there will have to be a swing back to the left. I'm not so bothered about ID cards as I am of them trying to extend how long they can hold suspected terrorists and other things.

[Janus]

It seems that the cards will be quite expensive, making them difficult to attain for the regular immigrant. It may also not be effective as it is claimed to be. Illegal immigation, terrorism, and organized crime will still occur.

Here's a list of all the information that will be stored in the cards.

BBC News

Personal information

full name

other names by which person is or has been known

date of birth

place of birth

gender

address of principal place of residence in the United Kingdom

the address of every other place in the United Kingdom where person has a place of residence.

Identifying information

a photograph of head and shoulders

signature

fingerprints

other biometric information

Residential status

nationality

entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom where that entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave

Personal reference numbers

National Identity Registration Number

the number of any ID card issued

allocated national insurance number

the number of any relevant immigration document

the number of their United Kingdom passport

the number of any passport issued to the individual by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation

the number of any document that can be used by them (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;

the number of any identity card issued to him/her by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom

any reference number allocated to him/her by the secretary of state in connection with an application made by him for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom

the number of any work permit relating to him/her;

any driver number given to him/her by a driving licence;

the number of any designated document which is held by him/her and is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs

the date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.

Record history

information falling within the preceding paragraphs that has previously been recorded about him/her in the Register

particulars of changes affecting that information and of changes made to his/her entry in the Register

date of death.

Registration and ID card history

the date of every application for registration made by him/her

the date of every application by him/her for a modification of the contents of his entry

the date of every application by him/her confirming the contents of his entry (with or without changes)

the reason for any omission from the information recorded in his/her entry

particulars (in addition to its number) of every ID card issued to him/her

whether each such card is in force and, if not, why not

particulars of every person who has countersigned an application by him/her for an ID card or a designated document, so far as those particulars were included on the application

particulars of every notification given about lost, stolen and damaged ID cards

particulars of every requirement by the secretary of state for the individual to surrender an ID card issued to him.

Validation information

the information provided in connection with every application to be entered in the Register, for a modification of the contents of his entry or for the issue of an ID card

the information provided in connection with every application confirming entry in the Register (with or without changes)

particulars of the steps taken, in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) or otherwise, for identifying the applicant or for verifying the information provided in connection with the application

particulars of any other steps taken or information obtained for ensuring that there is a complete, up-to-date and accurate entry about that individual in the Register

particulars of every notification given by that individual for changing details in the register.

Security information

a personal identification number to be used for facilitating the making of applications for information recorded in his/her entry, and for facilitating the provision of the information;

a password or other code to be used for that purpose or particulars of a method of generating such a password or code

questions and answers to be used for identifying a person seeking to make such an application or to apply for or to make a modification of that entry.
Records of provision of information


particulars of every occasion on which information contained in the individual's entry has been provided to a person

particulars of every person to whom such information has been provided on such an occasion

other particulars, in relation to each such occasion, of the provision of the information.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The US has something similar in the works, REAL ID.

It's some real quasi-fascist, anti-immigrant garbage.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

REAL ID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_id)

Abolish REAL ID forums (http://xsorbit29.com/users5/abolishrealid/index.php)

[Dreckt]

Coop this card-thing with the rising wave of survelliance world-wide, and all conspiracies from old days are starting to come true.

No, really. The scandinavian countries are about to become survelliance-states. One of the most redicolous things I've ever heard is the Swedish juridical minister (Thomas Bodstrom) talking about how Sweden risks a terrorist-attack in an imminent future.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The good part about that is that all the 9-11 hijackers were using proper IDs.

So much for that.

[drain.you]

haha yeah. last night on uk news they were saying how the ID cards wouldnt have been able to stop the july london bombers either.

[Noah]

It's obvious that the UK ID cards won't stop anything, it's simply a violation of one's privacy...and costs bombs...

I'm not sure what the truth is behin ID cards, I suppose they just want control over all the people.

Someone will be able to start making fake ID cards... I really don't like the way parliament have decided and not the people.

[piet11111]

so far my conclusion is that the ID system serves 2 purposes
1 to give the police an excuse to check your identity.
2 to generate money through selling these ID's and the fines.

i wonder what the next step will be in population control.

[The Feral Underclass]

ID cards is the next poll tax. It has been discussed as such ever since the Blair suggested the legislation and even today the Guardian was calling it 'Labours poll tax.'

These ID cards are simply a step too far and they are widely opposed by the general public. The state is attempting to criminalise dissent, unemployment and nationality and will continue to do so if unopposed.

The Anarchist Federation has started an anti ID campaign and is heavily involved in Defy-ID. ID cards are by no means inevitable and there is allot of action that can be taken to stop them.

The AF has published a pamphlet called 'Defending Anonymity'. (http://www.libcom.org/hosted/af/ace/anon.html) I would encourage anyone to contact the AF or to set up a local Defy-ID group and start actions against the introduction of them.

ID cards is going to be the biggest public show of demonstration and dissent since the poll tax. It is possible to stop this legislation.

[Comrade J]

Here in Britain we have a large Muslim population, and lets cut any PC bullshit- they're the ones blowing the shit out of everything. So what's an ID card going to do? Is it gonna stop a Muslim from getting on a bus with 20lbs of explosives tucked in his bag? Is it gonna stop an Algerian terrorist from marrying a UK citizen and being granted citizenship? Is it bollocks.
Their should have been a referendum on it... though I wouldn't be surprised if the results were either faked or were pro-ID cards, what with all the government propaganda for them we've been seeing of late.
I fully agree with the people who said ID cards won't protect us from terrorism.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 14 2006, 03:56 PM
The AF has published a pamphlet called 'Defending Anonymity'. (http://www.libcom.org/hosted/af/ace/anon.html) I would encourage anyone to contact the AF or to set up a local Defy-ID group and start actions against the introduction of them.

I agree with TAT. 'Defending Anonymity' is an excellent pamphlet on ID cards, most Anarchists see it as one of the best critical writings being distributed at the moment.

Here's an extract.


OK so why do we oppose ID?


Because it is wrong plain & simple.
It's a rip off. They really are taking the piss here. Charging us through the nose to get done over.
It will not work for any of the purposes they claim for a number of reasons including their lack of competence. As for the companies greed: it will work a bit, but always need a bit more money to fix it. Bit like smack really.
Goverment IT schemes always collapse into enquiries as to what went so spectacularly wrong. Over budget, the programmes don't work, the hardware doesn't work then they start to tinker round with them &/or the initial plan changes ½ way through (if that far on). Everyone a loser.
As was raised by a House of Commons committee, they will affect everyone but vulnerable social groups more. So if you are from an ethnic minority or homeless for example you will find yourself subjected to checks more often than those responsible for real offences, like bringing in this rubbish.
If it's not compulsory it will not be of any good really (also pointed out by a house Committee), though one thing for pushing it may be to go on the ‘we can use finger prints to solve old crimes'. As we have no statute of limitations in this country & they got rid of double jeopardy it looks like when the police are feeling undervalued/funded they can fill the courts & jails with dubious cases.
Another issue people will have to face is how to live without our inflexible friends as we will apparently need them if we want to work or get benefits.
Loads of New offences including:
refusal to obey an order to register = £2500
failure to submit to fingerprinting and biometric scanning = £2500
failure to provide information demanded by the government = £2500
failure to attend an interview at a specified place and time = £2500
failure to notify authorities about a lost, stolen, damaged or defective card = up to 1yr in prison and/or a fine
failure to renew a card = £1000
failure to attend subsequent fingerprinting and biometric scanning when demanded = £1000
failure to provide subsequent information when demanded = £1000
failure to attend subsequent interview at specified place and time when demanded = £1000
failure to notify authorities of any change in personal circumstances (including change of address) = £1000
providing false information = up to 2 years and/or a fine
To add insult to injury, many of the offences set out in the Bill are civil penalties meaning it's unlikely you'll get legal aid to help your defence.

[Noah]

Holy crap thanks for the quote AF! Those fines are REAALLY over priced.

[Matty_UK]

And now smoking is banned in public places, making the word "public" very different indeed.
Been a bad week for civil liberties, aye?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"Smoking" isn't a civil liberty.

[WUOrevolt]

This is wrong, but to respond to it like the SLA responded to a superintendent in the U.S. trying to make students carry identification cards would not be good either.

[Sense-A]

The government has my fingerprints and retina eye scans of me. However it won't surprise me when people are implanted with microchips. They already do it to dogs and cats in America. Very cheaply done as well. Cell phones and navigation systems allow government to know exactly where you are at. Credit reports reveal where you shop and at what times and the type of things/services you buy. my big brother!

Orwell is a prophet to have seen this coming.

[red_orchestra]

Orwell was just using common sense...while everyone else was dreaming about Utopian society. So much of society lives in sheer ignorence. Orwell was a man who saw the realities of technology in the future- and the potential for Governments to control their people with an iron fist.

....its all very sick.

[drain.you]

Originally I was okay about ID cards but the more I've read, the scarier it seems and now I'm quite opposed. I was just saying today that I know for certain that I'm going to have to leave the country at some point of my life just to escape the government's scary policies.

[Lola]

I think they're pointless. Especially if any ID costs money that poor people cannot afford. And of course, if they're made using taxes (in America at least, with regards to the Real ID), it's the poor people that'll be paying for them anyway, thanks to Bush and his rich tax breaks. Like the government can't frickin spy on us if they want to already, do they seriously need this? How is this going to stop terrorism? Especially when we're the one's (in America) who trained them in the first place.

[piet11111]

the new dutch passport will also contain retina scans and fingerprints.
guess i wont be getting a passport anymore.

[Tekun]

Just like Compa said, the ID cards here in California are meant as a way to alienate immigrants, and to keep track on ppl and where they go and such

I recently heard that there is a move by the California legislature, which would create a system where only ppl with ID's would get medical treatment or some health related service, in an obvious attempt to punish and persecute the immigrant community here in California

As a socialist and a former immigrant, Im appalled by this show of xenophobia

[piet11111]

yeah buts it like that in the entire western world Tekun.
many nations are just not worth living in anymore.

the thing i am confused about is that the capitalist nations need imigration to support economic growth.
i put it on the increasing "senile" behaviour of capitalism as a sign of the progressing decline.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 01:56 PM
yeah buts it like that in the entire western world Tekun.
many nations are just not worth living in anymore.

the thing i am confused about is that the capitalist nations need imigration to support economic growth.
i put it on the increasing "senile" behaviour of capitalism as a sign of the progressing decline.
No doubt man

Shit's getting disgusting :(

[Sense-A]

a capius was put out for my arrest because the local court system claims i'm in violation of court order because they do not have my fingerprints. In fact they have many copies of my fingerprints. I appeared to court, on my own time, to give my fingerprints. I was given a court date instead. I was not able to make my courtdate and I was charged $250 for contempt of court. I am now facing 30 days jail time because it is MY FAULT that the court system lost my fingerprints.

I have hired a lawyer. It is very costly. The court system already has my retina eye scans, several copies of my fingerprints both computer scanned and inked on paper. They have already made $250 off this. Failure to pay fines is a loss of my privledge to drive. There is no alternate transportation here besides riding a bike.

I will keep you updated.

[Delta]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 10:18 AM
However, I think that ID cards after the revolution will be a necessity in order for the economy to function.
Sounds like you're willing to forego the possibility and success of a revolution in order to have the convenience of not having to later print up some stupid ID cards?