Globalisation

[grove street]

As globalisation increases and more giant corprate compaines start setting up factories in the east (China and India) we must come to the conclusion that for this moment there is little chance of stopping globalisation, but there are ways that we can help underdeveloped nations from being abused by explotation of corporations.

In a way the people of underdeveloped countries need the work provided by compaines setting up factories in their countries, but they do not need the poor working conditions and abuse that comes with it. If we forced American compaines to pay it's factory workers in underdeveloped countries the same minimum wage of most developed countries. The compaines would close down their factories in China, India ect and invest more money into factories in western developed countries. This may sound good for the workers in developed countries that continue to lose their jobs because of the competition from countries like China and India, but the people of countires like China and India will also lose their jobs too and in a way they need them a lot more then we do.

I beleive that the UN should pass a law that requires all compaines to follow a strict set of rules for workers rights, treatment and working conditions regardless of where in the world their factories are. Any company that does not follow the rules and continues to exploit the abuse of human/workers rights should have a ban on their products until they can change their act and play by the rules.

I can understand the want for cheap labour and increased profits, but there is a difference to paying your wokers enough to live a basic good and safe life and providing them with good treatment and working conditions compared to treating them like shit,working them like slaves and paying them only enough to live.

[Atlas Swallowed]

The ultra wealthy, CEOs, bankers, government officials and others responsible for this need to be dragged into the streets and clubbed like seals. Thier actions bring misery to billions the only way to stop it is to hold them accountable.

[grove street]

Originally posted by Atlas [email protected] 10 2006, 11:07 AM
The ultra wealthy, CEOs, bankers, government officials and others responsible for this need to be dragged into the streets and clubbed like seals. Thier actions bring misery to billions the only way to stop it is to hold them accountable.
Humanity before profits.

[Noah]

there are ways that we can help underdeveloped nations from being abused by explotation of corporations.

The affects of people working within the capitalist system (instead of revolution) can never drastically change the exploitation of corporations, the affects are miniscule.


In a way the people of underdeveloped countries need the work provided by compaines setting up factories in their countries, but they do not need the poor working conditions and abuse that comes with it.

For the capitalist it's profit before humanity! As long as capitalism exists then the main objective will be making money.


If we forced American compaines to pay it's factory workers in underdeveloped countries the same minimum wage of most developed countries

The minimum wage of someone in America is much more than someone in China. If you paid someone in China the minimum American wage, it wouldn't be THAT minimum if converted to Chinese money, I think?


I beleive that the UN should pass a law that requires all compaines to follow a strict set of rules for workers rights, treatment and working conditions regardless of where in the world their factories are. Any company that does not follow the rules and continues to exploit the abuse of human/workers rights should have a ban on their products until they can change their act and play by the rules.

America is the UN.


I can understand the want for cheap labour and increased profits, but there is a difference to paying your wokers enough to live a basic good and safe life and providing them with good treatment and working conditions compared to treating them like shit,working them like slaves and paying them only enough to live.

Yep, the stench of capitalism!

[Hopes_Guevara]

Originally posted by grove [email protected] 10 2006, 10:33 AM
I beleive that the UN should pass a law that requires all compaines to follow a strict set of rules for workers rights, treatment and working conditions regardless of where in the world their factories are. Any company that does not follow the rules and continues to exploit the abuse of human/workers rights should have a ban on their products until they can change their act and play by the rules.

I can understand the want for cheap labour and increased profits, but there is a difference to paying your wokers enough to live a basic good and safe life and providing them with good treatment and working conditions compared to treating them like shit,working them like slaves and paying them only enough to live.
UN can never pass such a law. UN is where US and Western sway all laws and actions. Moreover UN is not allowed to pass the laws of trade because of the reason that have the rhetoric: FREEDOM OF TRADE. To the bourgeoise, "TRADE" is the "restricted area" what anyone doesn't have right to "violate".
I think the only way you all can do for the workers in the East is to refuse commodity of the companies that be accused that they don't satisfy necessary standards of labour conditions and used children labours. You know, all of the companies are afraid of this. In fact, many companies want to be labelled "Fair trade" for attracting customers.
But I think all of the methods to prevent the workers from the exploitation of their owners are utopian in the process of globalization. As you said, if the multinationals can't look for more profits from hiring cheap labours in Asia, Africa and Latin America they will never invest there and the workers will lose their jobs.
Today, with globalization, the bourgeoise always propagandize so-called "new libertarianism". And as you knew all bad things hidded behind the rhetoric "libertarianism and democracy" spreaded by US and the Western.

[grove street]

If all the third world countries could unite under a socialist/communist banner this would greatley prevent them from being exploited by the capatlists of the west.

[anomaly]

First of all, the third world countries will never unite under a red banner. Refute me here if you are an idealist, but, as a materialist, the third world is simply not so developed as to have the capability of doing such a thing.

There is no way to stop globalization. We can talk of petty reformism all we wish, but, as some comrades have already stated, it will have no effect. Besides, if you wish to instill a minimum wage upon all the world while still keeping capitalism in tact, you wish to destroy the entire world economy. No, we cannot change the system, we can only destroy it. But, as stated, globalization is not something we can 'prevent'; rather, it is simply a natural outgrowth of capitalist society. Quite simply, globalization just means that more nations are being brought up from the level of feudal society to capitalist society. As such, opposing globalization is entirely meaningless.

[Seong]

Sadly, I don't believe that there is any way to stop Capitalism and globalisation all together. There are, however, various ways in which to undermine it. :ph34r:

The third world countries largely exploited by western capitalists not only depend upon countries like america for their income but also for aid and financial assistance. The last thing they want to do is tell the USA where to go and get a trade embargo slapped on their ass for whatever reason the American think-tank suggests is most plausible - e.g. WMD's.

I think capitalism will just have to run its course and eventually self destruct. On this day we will dance naked on capitalism's grave. :P

[Fidelbrand]

good post, Seong.
And for the Un, it just supports capitlaist globalization. Never dreamt it can help alleviate the problems it permits.

[Social Greenman]

The factories set up in Third World Countries are the factories closed here in the U.S.


Mentor-based Steris Corp. said it plans to cut costs by moving 450 manufacturing jobs to Mexico from its Erie, Pa., production plant.

The company said it made a detailed analysis of alternatives, but it eventually concluded that moving the jobs to Mexico was the best way to reduce costs in the increasingly competitive business of making sterilization and decontamination equipment for hospitals and other health care customers... About 320 union workers and 130 salaried employees whose work is directly associated with manufacturing will lose their jobs, Steris spokesman Aidan Gormley said.

Les Vinney, president and chief executive, said in a statement that Steris will work with the unions and employees to ease the impact of the plant closing. Details of severance provisions will be the subject of "effects bargaining" with United Auto Workers Local 832 and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Local 1968, Gormley said.

About 230 white-collar Steris employees will remain in Erie in business support jobs such as research and design, engineering and communications.

Calls to the two unions' offices were not returned after the company's announcement Monday afternoon.

Steris said that its main customers - primarily hospitals - are under "significant pressure to reduce costs" and that the company was being squeezed by new global competition from low-cost suppliers.

Vinney said Steris had made considerable investment in equipment and processes to make the Erie plant more competitive. Despite efforts by the company, the unions and workers, he said the plant remained the 5,000-employee company's highest-cost facility.

://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/1138700336122070.xml&coll=2

Another source writes from the perspective of the workers:


The pain runs deep for Willie Morgan, Feb. 1, 2006 (Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News delivered by Newstex) --
even after having a night to sleep on the news.

After nearly four decades of making a living as a machine operator at Erie's Steris Corp. (NYSE:STE) plant, Morgan had built strong bonds with his co-workers and developed an intense pride in his handiwork.

But those good feelings were taken away Monday with one life-changing announcement.

"I never thought it would be possible for this place to be gone," Morgan said Tuesday, one day after hearing the news that Steris was transferring its Erie manufacturing operations to Mexico. "The place, along with the guys, has become a part of me."

Such feelings have been commonplace among Erie factory workers since 2001, when a manufacturing downturn and a changing marketplace set the stage for a series of high-profile plant closings.

Since that time, northwestern Pennsylvania has lost International Paper Co. (NYSE:IP) Gunite/EMI, DeZurik/Copes-Vulcan, Carlisle Engineered Products, Van de Kamp's Frozen Foods, American Meter Co. and Andover Industries. "We believe we remain well-positioned as a company," Steris Chief Executive Les C. Vinney said in a conference call with analysts Tuesday morning. "With a lower cost structure (due to relocating the Erie manufacturing operation), we will be better positioned to meet market needs in the future."

Taken together, those numbers mean good things for Steris' shareholders, who have already been treated to a nice return on their investment in recent months.

The Mentor, Ohio, company's stock price jumped 55 cents, or 2.08 percent, to $27 in trading Tuesday.

Tuesday's closing price is also up $5.18, or 23.7 percent, since Oct. 27.

Those numbers, however, offer little consolation to its workers in Erie -- a community that has long been home to a manufacturing operation that began in the late 1880s as American Sterilizer.

Steris bought the company, which had been renamed AMSCO, in 1996 in a stock swap worth about $660 million.

The company had invested heavily in the Erie operation, and workers said Tuesday that Steris had offered no indication that it was planning to move their jobs south of the border.

Though it plans to keep 230 non-manufacturing jobs in Erie, Steris' decision is seen by some of its workers as a cold move.

http://news.pajamasmedia.com/politics/2006...workers_b.shtml (http://news.pajamasmedia.com/politics/2006/02/01/7178459_Steris_workers_b.shtml)

Here is a bit of propaganda:


Today, heading into a new century, Erie is at another crossroads: continue on with business as usual or commit to the new global, technology- and service-dominated economy.

Succeeding in the new environment will mean fostering and attracting high-tech businesses with jobs to keep young people in Erie. It will mean helping existing companies stay ahead of overseas competitors by creating job-training programs, high-tech infrastructure and a better airport. It will mean community leaders taking a cooperative, proactive approach toward economic development. And it will mean workers no longer assuming they'll have a job at "the GE" or the paper mill for life, and instead developing marketable skills and the ability to adapt to changing workplaces.

To what extent the region makes these changes will determine whether the good things here today -- healthy companies; rising income; more places to play, eat and shop; good colleges and hospitals -- are here for years to come.

More importantly, it will determine if the community's young people grow up in stable households and, later, stick around to take good-paying jobs or start their own businesses.

"Things are looking good. But we can't take it for granted," said Jim Kurre, associate director of the Economic Research Institute of Erie at Penn State Behrend, a longtime observer of the local economy.

John Rice, president of GE Transportation Systems, pointed out that in today's economy, "You'll never get to the point ... where you can sit back and rest. You're either getting better or you're falling behind." But over the past 20 years, the regional economy has made progress adapting to this fundamental economic change.

Many traditional manufacturers such as GE Transportation Systems, American Sterilizer (now Steris Corp.) and International Paper have shifted their focus to higher-skill, higher-paying work, allowing the companies to maintain a reduced but strong presence here. Meanwhile, many small manufacturers have become major employers, especially in the plastics industry.

More noticeably, countless new jobs appeared in the service sector -- which now accounts for about three-quarters of the community's jobs. The growth was especially apparent in the fields of insurance, education and health care, government and retail.

In general, the results have meant good things for local residents.

http://www.goerie.com/erie2000/a_healthier_economy.html

[piet11111]

child labour is a sad thing but its necessary too help feed the entire family.
to deny capitalists to go there for cheap labour would be to deny the poeple there food and social progress.

also we need the capitalists to take their money and run off before our own working class turns revolutionary its one of the most prominent signs of the decline of capitalism and proof of marx's theory's.
we just need to point it out to our co-workers not even the most pro-capitalist poeple can deny that the western nations are rapidly becoming unprofitable.

also clubbing the capitalists to death would be fun but also messy and i think a lot of poeple would not be able to stomach it.
we ought to keep things clean and efficient afterall one of our own would probably end up cleaning the mess and im not scraping brains of the sidewalk into buckets :lol:

[Social Greenman]

piet11111 wrote:


child labour is a sad thing but its necessary too help feed the entire family.
to deny capitalists to go there for cheap labour would be to deny the poeple there food and social progress.

Perhaps child labor may or may not feed the entire family but the conditions are horrible. Children work long hours and are subject to beatings by foremen to work faster. Often the children have to sleep under their machines for a few hours before they have to commence working again. If and when they go home the conditions are not all that better because they live in a hut and sleep on the ground. When it rains they have to cover themselves in plastic or some other water resistant fabric. Corporations going to these countries know that there are no child labor laws nor unions to demad better working conditions or benefits such as health care or sick days. This is the nature of the beast that most people in the U.S. are not aware of or just plain don't care. Social progress?


also we need the capitalists to take their money and run off before our own working class turns revolutionary its one of the most prominent signs of the decline of capitalism and proof of marx's theory's.
we just need to point it out to our co-workers not even the most pro-capitalist poeple can deny that the western nations are rapidly becoming unprofitable.

They don't run just relocate some of their production facilities to maximise their profit margins in Third World countries. Look at this quote again: "And it will mean workers no longer assuming they'll have a job at "the General Electric" or the Paper Mill for life, and instead, developing marketable skills and the ability to adapt to changing workplaces." This means that the capitalist are instilling in the minds of people that they will have to continue seeking different educations and job skills to compete in the job market. They try to paint a picture that everything that happen economically is normal. Forget about losing your job with benefits. You have to be ready to jump to another one. Workers need to see an alternative economic system that won't exploit them or Third World countries.


also clubbing the capitalists to death would be fun but also messy and i think a lot of poeple would not be able to stomach it.
we ought to keep things clean and efficient afterall one of our own would probably end up cleaning the mess and im not scraping brains of the sidewalk into buckets

That is barbaric indeed. The capitalist class will suffer when they are stripped of their power and wealth. The agony of no more room service or having a butler or maid. Gad...the thought having to actually work. :o

[anomaly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 07:29 AM
Sadly, I don't believe that there is any way to stop Capitalism and globalisation all together. There are, however, various ways in which to undermine it. :ph34r:

The third world countries largely exploited by western capitalists not only depend upon countries like america for their income but also for aid and financial assistance. The last thing they want to do is tell the USA where to go and get a trade embargo slapped on their ass for whatever reason the American think-tank suggests is most plausible - e.g. WMD's.

I think capitalism will just have to run its course and eventually self destruct. On this day we will dance naked on capitalism's grave. :P
While Marxism does suggest economic determinism, do not think that this means we should do 'nothing'. Certainly, I think we are in desperate need of a new communist organization, that is, an organization that actually wants communism, not some reformist bullshit.

It is becoming apparent that economic conditions will soon begin to decline for the proletariat in the most advanced nations (indeed, they have already started to decline). As this is the case, a revolutionary alternative will become more and more appealing. However, I assure you that the proletariat will never revolt if they are not even aware of any alternative to capitalism. This is where we come in, and this is why we need that communist organization. At present, there is a feeling among a great many of the proletatriat that capitalism has no alternative, so we'll just have to 'accept' it. And this feeling is perfectly reasonable, since the revolutionary viewpoint is essentially unrepresented. I think it is high time we organize.

[piet11111]

@ social greenman i understand that children in third world country's are going to be victims of capitalism and its very sad and regrettable.
but we can not forget that we have the responsibility to do our best to help them out of this position and get atleast the children into school.
without forcing the entire family into starvation by doing so.
they have the advantage of our experience and how we got through the same shit because of this i am inclined to think that we can dramatically shorten this period in their
"epoch" of history because we can reach out a helping hand that they can grab to pull themselfes up.
we did not have that option and have to do it ourselves.
perhaps i am hopelessly optimistic perhaps not time will tell.

@ anomaly i live in the netherlands and the avarage view of "demockracy" is that its hopelessly corrupt because the government never listens to us.
i think in the case of the netherlands that the time has come where the proletariat is ready for "new" ideas like communism.
its only very difficult to reach a large amount of poeple but i hope for a snowball effect.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 08:38 PM
also clubbing the capitalists to death would be fun but also messy and i think a lot of poeple would not be able to stomach it.
we ought to keep things clean and efficient afterall one of our own would probably end up cleaning the mess and im not scraping brains of the sidewalk into buckets :lol:
Your right scratch that idea. Leave the systematic killing with faschists.

Social Greenman making them work is probably a better idea but we should at least beat the shit out of them first.

[Social Greenman]

piet1111 Wrote:


@ social greenman i understand that children in third world country's are going to be victims of capitalism and its very sad and regrettable.
but we can not forget that we have the responsibility to do our best to help them out of this position and get atleast the children into school.
without forcing the entire family into starvation by doing so.
they have the advantage of our experience and how we got through the same shit because of this i am inclined to think that we can dramatically shorten this period in their
"epoch" of history because we can reach out a helping hand that they can grab to pull themselfes up.
we did not have that option and have to do it ourselves.
perhaps i am hopelessly optimistic perhaps not time will tell.

Well then, send your donations to Unicef, or some other orginazations that are already present in those exploited countries. Unfortunately, most donations go to Xian missionary project. However, they do feed the people, build shelters and schoolhouses and educate the children while we argue over politics, revisionism, Trotsky, Stalin, variopus schools of socialist thought, and how to eliminate religion. :rolleyes:

[piet11111]

Originally posted by Social [email protected] 12 2006, 05:52 PM
Well then, send your donations to Unicef, or some other orginazations that are already present in those exploited countries. Unfortunately, most donations go to Xian missionary project. However, they do feed the people, build shelters and schoolhouses and educate the children while we argue over politics, revisionism, Trotsky, Stalin, variopus schools of socialist thought, and how to eliminate religion. :rolleyes:
unicef :lol:

no i wont bother with charity untill after the revolution dont get me wrong i want to help them but the chance of them ever getting my money is too close to nill.
i would rather use that money to buy books/weapons/munitions so i can educate myself and prepare for the revolution.
with proper care weapons can remain good for generations especially the ak47 family.
this way even if i dont live to see the revolution others would still be able to use my stockpile when the time comes (long live the hells angels for weapons dealing).
weapons are becoming harder to get every passing year and i think when the revolution comes that weapons are nigh impossible to get.

after the revolution i would suggest sending out teachers along with food transports to the poorest country's this way the teachers can "employ" the children and "pay" them food and other goods.
i think this would be the best course of action.

[Seong]

Thanks Fidelbrand :blush:


Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 04:22 PM
At present, there is a feeling among a great many of the proletatriat that capitalism has no alternative, so we'll just have to 'accept' it. And this feeling is perfectly reasonable, since the revolutionary viewpoint is essentially unrepresented. I think it is high time we organize.

Couldn't agree more Anomaly. Raising awareness is just as important as, if not more than, organization for the revolution. The general feeling of helplessness among the proletariat is a crucial point that you highlight. To me it seems obvious that this is connected to the deterioration of 'mental health' on a global scale. It's hard because most proles are brainwashed or totally apathetic and the rest are right wing fuckers who don't want to listen, but everyone should be spreading the word to as many people as possible.

[Dreckt]

An option of crushing globalization is what redstar2000 said:


What is really needed in the present situation is a message that states precisely that things are hopeless as long as the bourgeoisie rules!

In my opinion, globalization bears its own destruction. When the world is finally globalized, the people of the world will be so pissed off by the changes that it won't hold for a day.

On the other hand, globalization crushes nations - that is, it crushes nationalism and nazism, which is a good thing.