Censorship in Cuba

[Kapitalist]

“Building walls to isolate Cubans from the rest of the world is what Castro’s Regime knows best.”

The United States has sort of an unofficial embassy in Havana Cuba, similar to the unofficial embassy Cuba has in New York. From the windows of the US Diplomatic Mission, a red lettered ticker tape was erected to broadcast messages to the Oppressed Cuban People below. U.S. diplomats in Havana flash news headlines and quotes from Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi and Lech Walesa, founder of the Solidarity movement in Poland, also quotes from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. (What could possibly be wrong with these messages?). It also flashes brief news items, which US officials say are meant to subvert strict censorship in Cuba's/Castro's state controlled media. (Realize that in Cuba there is NO freedom of press, Castro’s communist government controls all forms of media (TV, Newspapers, Free Libraries, etc.)). This ticker tape represents a real threat to Castro’s Regime (The same oppressive regime that Che Guevara madly served).

Castro called the work a "surprise," and responded immediately to this real threat against his mind control/power over the Cuban People. Castro within a week had a construction crew hoist 138 huge black flags to block the view of the ticker tape from his people (communist can not tolerate free media or any objective point of view). The flags basically represent another wall that blocks freedom.

Which proves again that oppression of freedom is the only way the communism can survive.

No freedom of media
No freedom to assemble
No freedom to bear arms
No freedom to vote or elect leaders outside the communist self appointed party.

All in All these flags represent more bricks in the wall!

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 06:04 PM
“Building walls to isolate Cubans from the rest of the world is what Castro’s Regime knows best.”
In fact, it's the U.S. embargo and travel ban which seeks to isolate Cuba - even keep other countries from trading with Cuba - and prevent the spread of its revolutionary example. In contrast, the Cuban government has organized Cubans to go as doctors, teachers, etc., to countries all over the world. And is trying to promote tourism, with all the inevitable contact between Cubans and people from many other countries, including the U.S.

It's Washington, not Cuba, which forbids U.S. citizens to travel to Cuba (yes, officially only to spend money there, but tomato tomahto). Thereby limiting discussion and the exchange of ideas between citizens of the two countries. Washington just threatened a large number of U.S. citizens with heavy fines for travelling to Cuba. (http://www.themilitant.com/2006/7006/700653.html)

Washington also frequently denies visas to Cubans wanting to visit the U.S.

Washington has also denied permission for a internet fiber-optic cable linking Cuba and Florida - so Cuban internet access to the world has to all be by satellite. For years, Washington blocked all access from Cuba to U.S. websites.


(What could possibly be wrong with these messages?).

Hypocrisy? Considering that MLK, for example, was wiretapped and harassed by the U.S. political police, and was an opponent of the U.S. war in Vietnam. Or maybe the arrogant, insulting assumption that Cubans are unfamiliar with the views of these historic figures, as if their writings are not published in Cuba, or as if Cuba had not become a land of widespread education and reading thanks to the revolution?

Not to mention it's a symbol of Washington's arrogant assumption of its right to interfere in Cuba's internal politics. By itself insignificant, but in the context of the embargo, repeated armed attacks on Cuba, etc, of symbolic importance that enrages many Cubans.

The latest example of that: Washington has just refused to extradite the notorious terrorist Juan Posadas Carriles to Venezuela, to face trial on charges of blowing up an airliner flying from Venezuela to Cuba. Dozens of people were killed by that terrorist act, but Carriles has evaded trial for decades. Washington also shelters terrorist Orlando Bosch - Carriles' accomplice in that bombing - who lives in Miami.

Even if you insist on thinking of the Cuban government as a demagogic tyranny, you oughta be able to see that affront to Cuba's national pride is why the Cuban government can politically benefit from protesting the insulting billboard.


This ticker tape represents a real threat to Castro’s Regime

How? After everything else Washington else has done for 45 years to try to bring down "Castro's Regime", you think an electronic bulletin board is going to do it?

People in Cuba do have access to outside media - from Miami TV and radio stations which can be received in parts of Cuba; to a Cuban version of Google News, which as you can see includes a mix of official Cuban and other Latin American media; to U.S. movies on Cuban televison.

If all that hasn't inspired Cubans to rise up against "Castro's regime", you think anyone imagines a "ticker-tape" will?


No freedom to assemble

There's never been a Tiananmen Square or anything like it in Cuba. It's just a lot more Cubans are willling to assemble in support of the revolution - for example, protesting this latest example of Washington's arrogance - than against it.


No freedom to bear arms

Heh. On the contrary, over a million Cubans belong to the militia, ready to defend their revolution against U.S. imperialism.


No freedom to vote or elect leaders outside the communist self appointed party.

Nonsense, as you'd know if you even read the news about this electronic billboard.

""Instead of hate, our people have been a noble example in favor of life," said the Rev. Raul Suarez, a minister who also sits on Cuba's National Assembly, or parliament." That's a quote from [url=http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/02/06/cuba.protest.ap/]this CNN article. (http://news.google.com/news?ned=es_cu)

Suarez is not a party member (http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/us_denies_visa_to_peace_activist_from_cuba) and is one of those people I mentioned earlier who's been denied a visa to visit and speak in the U.S. Who's building a wall, again?

According to the most recent figures I can find (http://dodgson.ucsd.edu/las/cuba/1990-2001.htm), about 20% of Cuba's National Assembly are not party members.

Cuba's electoral system is nonpartisan, not single-party. (http://dodgson.ucsd.edu/las/cuba/1990-2001.htm) There are contested elections at the base of the system, with multiple candidates nominated by neighborhood assemblies.

Even more important is the role of popular participation in decision-making through the unions, neighborhood associations, Communist Party local cells, etc.

I won't pretend this system's a perfect example of workers' democracy - it'd be very surprising if it was, in a small Third World country under siege by Washington and, using different tactics, the whole capitalist world. (Bad cop, good cop.)

But it's a long way from your caricatured view of Stalinist tyranny, which is not based on any knowledge of the facts about Cuba but rather on a careless assumption that Cuba must be like other countries labelled "Communist."

[Hiero]

Castro called the work a "surprise," and responded immediately to this real threat against his mind control/power over the Cuban People

Mind control?

[KC]

Mind control?

Didn't you know? Castro's a warlock :lol:

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 08:57 AM

Mind control?

Castro's a warlock
You heard it here first folks...

[Hegemonicretribution]

I think that freedom of assembly, freedom to vote, and freedom to bear arms have been covered.

Remember that in capitalist society freedom of the press exists for those that own a press. The impact of actually owning a press has been decreased now wlso, as the budgets of the main media sources outstrip that of your average local media group.

If you are pissed that Cuba don't have "freedom" to be bombarded with American propoganda night and day, well who cares? I am sure the majority (not the minority swimming for Miami) don't.

If private ownewrship of the press was brought in, it would inevitably mean that there would be a disproportionate representation of the wealthier members. It is supposed to be about the proletariat, and this would miss the point.

[Kapitalist]

In a Capitalist society there are many points of views covered by the FREE MEDIA. In a Capitalist Society if the people do not like the point of view of the media, then that media goes out of business. In the FREE USA we have Right Wings Media (Fox News, Hannity, OReilly, Talk Radio, Rush) and Left Wing Media (CNN, Ted Turner=Friend of Castro, CBS/Dan Rather=Friend of Castro, New York Times). Both points of view are well represented in a FREE CAPITALIST SOCIETY. In COMMUNIST CUBA, North Korea & CHINA there is only ONE (1) Government Controlled Point of View. I'll take a Capitalistic Media over a Communist One Sided Media anyday. I will agree that there are those who control the media (example Ted Turner, Dan Rather, Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly), but the Left Wing or Right Wing Consumer controls them. If people do not purchase or pay attention to that media, then that media goes out of business. In Cuba, the one-sided Granma News Paper is not going out of business, because the government funds it. The government prevents any other source of media from presenting any other point of view.

Furthermore, the US Embargo is not the reason for Cuba's Downfall. Cuba has free trade with Canada, Mexico, Europe, China, the entire fucking world, except the United States, which by the way allows Cuba to purchase Food & Medicine only (Material/Capitalistic Merchandise is restricted). Che Guevara and Castro are the ones who told Cubans to quit buying American Goods at the start of the Revolution. Che Guevara told all cubans do not buy USA. In 1960, Cubans were driving around with bumper stickers "DO NOT BUY AMERICAN" on their american Stubekaers, Chevys, & Fords. Now 45 years later the USA is responsible for the embargo encouraged by Che Guevara? Only the US is capable of delivering all the Tourism & Trade necessary for Cuba to survive. Why hasn't free trade with Canada, Mexico, & the rest of the world worked?

[Kapitalist]

Posoda was never found guilty of blowing up that airplane. This is a claim by Fidel Castro. What evidence do you have that Posada blew up this plane? What about Che Guevara? How many people did this guy kill. It's O.K. to blow up a freight train, but not an airplane? How about the 500 people that Che Guevara sent to the firing squad without a fair trial. How about the 15 year old boy sent to the firing squad by Che Guevara, who served under Che, and was found guilty of stealing food. Is stealing extra food ations worth sending a 15 year old boy to the firing squad? A comrade let me remind you, that served under Che Guevara.

What about the Tibetans that were killed by MAO? Did they deserve to have their nation/religion wiped out by Communist China? The same communist China that Che Guevara so honored? Che even named his kid after the mass slaughtering MAO. Communist Terrorist O.K., Miami Exile fighting for democracy in Cuba, not O.K. Understand clearly the double standard.

Posada may be a terrorist, he is currently detained in the US, and the courts here are trying to figure out what to do with him. The evidence & the verdict has not been reached. What about all the thugs given sanctuary in Cuba?

Please - you make it too easy

[Kapitalist]

I want to get back to the subject:

Why in a communist society, can you not have a free media? Why does Castro have to block the red ticker with the 138 black flags from Cubans. What does Castro have to fear? Does he fear that communist ideaology can't compete capitalistis/free ideaology?

Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on current events in Cuba, North Korea, China, and your hero Che Guevara. The more you learn, the more you will understand how oppressive Communism is. How evil and oppresive Che Guevara was. The USA currently has a billion slaves in China. Communism = Modern Day Slavery. Communsit Governments = Modern Day Slave Masters. Castro is the ultimate Evil Capitalist, He owns 11 million slaves. Evil Capitalism = Slavery = Workers Forced to work for low or no wages = workers that are not allowed to freely assemble or unionize = workers that controlled by one sided media.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 06:42 PM
In the FREE USA we have Right Wings Media (Fox News, Hannity, OReilly, Talk Radio, Rush) and Left Wing Media (CNN, Ted Turner=Friend of Castro, CBS/Dan Rather=Friend of Castro, New York Times).
In fact, those are all capitalist media, owned by big business, and financed by big-business advertisers. They have certain disagreements, within a framework of support for capitalism.

Similarly, in the Cuban media there are differences within the framework of support for communism. The same is true for the Cuban Communist Party. There are bigger disagreements within the Cuban Communist Party leadership than within the Democrats and Republicans put together.


Both points of view are well represented in a FREE CAPITALIST SOCIETY. In COMMUNIST CUBA, North Korea & CHINA there is only ONE (1) Government Controlled Point of View. I'll take a Capitalistic Media over a Communist One Sided Media anyday. I will agree that there are those who control the media (example Ted Turner, Dan Rather, Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly), but the Left Wing or Right Wing Consumer controls them. If people do not purchase or pay attention to that media, then that media goes out of business. In Cuba, the one-sided Granma News Paper is not going out of business, because the government funds it. The government prevents any other source of media from presenting any other point of view.

Furthermore, the US Embargo is not the reason for Cuba's Downfall.

What downfall?

You said Cuba was trying to isolate itself, and I pointed out it was the U.S. trying to isolate Cuba, including by discouraging other countries from trading with Cuba. Look up the Helms-Burton Act and the Torricelli Act f you want to actually know anything.

Now that I've refuted your argument, you're changing the subject, and ignoring what I actually said. I'm sorry that you've chosen such a characteristically trollish style of argument.


Posoda was never found guilty of blowing up that airplane.

Osama bin Laden hasn't been found guilty of organizing the 9/11 attacks, either. How would the U.S. react if some country refused to extradite him for that reason? Extradition comes first, then the trial. Under Venezuela's legal system, he's wanted for trial; and has been for decades. But it's pretty clear Washington is not going to respect that.

I'm going to ignore your other attempts to change the subject.

I refuted all your original arguments, but you've chosen not to acknowledge that.

The more you post, the more I think you're just trying to be inflammatory and provoke a response, not have a serious fact-based discussion.

Whatever - you've given me the chance to lay out some facts even if you have none yourself.

[ReD_ReBeL]

In COMMUNIST CUBA, North Korea & CHINA

You do know that they aint Communist right? Communism=abolition of the state.
Cuba=socialist. China=State Capitalist. North Korea=have there own ideology , i think it's called Juche(or sumthing of the like).


Che Guevara and Castro are the ones who told Cubans to quit buying American Goods at the start of the Revolution.

Actualy Cuba-US relation where due to go back to normal by an agreement by castro and Kennedy, but Kennedy was assasinated b4 this went throw.



What about Che Guevara? How many people did this guy kill. It's O.K. to blow up a freight train, but not an airplane?

The train which was blown up was a government train carrying troops and amunition. Also the others who he executed where done so by The Peoples Courts, who where proven guilty as war criminals(members of batista's army).


Furthermore, the US Embargo is not the reason for Cuba's Downfall. Cuba has free trade with Canada, Mexico, Europe, China, the entire fucking world

Yes but Cuba doesnt have the money to ship all them expensive goods from them countries. Therefore the US is making them poorer for forcing the to trade with countries far away when the US is just 90miles away and would be cheap.

Effecs Of Blockade On Health Of Cuban Children (http://www.cuba-solidarity.org/effectblock.htm)


Is stealing extra food ations worth sending a 15 year old boy to the firing squad?

Nope , that is why Che didn't do that. It was a lie made up from an Anti-communist who later fled to the US.

[Kapitalist]

There is absolutely no disagreement among communist under Fidel Castro. Fidel Castro & his brother Raul rule with an iron fist. Your first statement is a complete utter untruth. There is a total disagreement between US Democrats & Republicans. There is absolutely no disagreeing with Fidel Castro, or Kim Jong Il. The same held true under Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Hussein, etc. Absoulutely NO Disagreement is allowed under a tyrant regime. Anyone who disagrees with Fidel Castro is quickly arrested, killed, disappears, or is sent away to Bolivia. Examples of those who disagreed with Fidel Castro.

Huber Matos, disagreed with Castro & Che over the firing squads (was arrested and served 20 years in Cuban Prison before being exiled to Miami - Rebel Fighter under Castro, was not sentenced to death for fear of being made a martyr)

Che Guevara, disagreed with Castro, sent to Bolivia on a suicide mission. Castro ignored Che's pleads for reinforcements and ammunition. Che has served Castro better dead than when he was alive.

William Morgan, rebel fighter that disagreed with Castro - sent to firing squad.

Camilio Cienfuegos, Airplane Disappears on a clear sunny day in the early 1960s.

General Arnaldo Ochoa, Castro's Hero/General during the Angolan War - sentenced to death in 1987 on trumped drug charges.

There is absolutely NO Disagreement allowed under the communism regime. Those who speak up, are quickly dealt with.

[Kapitalist]

Two years into his revolution Castro managed to turn Cuba's traditional immigration pattern on it's head. Prior to 1959 Cuba experienced net immigration. In fact--as a percentage of population-- Cuba took in more immigrants in the 20th century than the U.S. took in--and this includes the Ellis Island years. In 1958 the Cuban embassy in Rome had a backlog of 12,000 applications for immigrant visas from Italians clamoring to immigrate to Cuba. From 1903-1950 Cuba took in over one million Spanish immigrants. (notice: pre-Castro Cuba's wetbacks came from the first -world.) Also, before Castro, more Americans lived in Cuba than Cubans in the U.S.[7] Back then people were as desperate to enter Cuba as they are now to escape. Come Castro and half-starved Haitians ( a short 60 miles away) turn up their nose at Cuba.

By 1992 two million Cubans had fled Cuba, most against staggering odds and with only the clothes on their back. By most estimates this is a tiny fraction of those who desired to leave. A causeway from Havana to Key West in 1961 with the same free travel as existed in Cuba (indeed, in all civilized countries) in 1958 would have emptied the island in two months. According to Cuban-American scholar Dr Armando Lago, 83,000 Cubans have died at sea while attempting to leave Cuba.

Also revealing of the misery and desperation created by the Castro regime is Cuba's suicide rate, which reached 24 per thousand in 1986- making it double Latin America's average, making it triple Cuba's pre-Castro rate, making Cuban women the most suicidal in the world, and making death by suicide the primary cause of death for Cubans aged 15-48. At that point the Cuban government ceased publishing the statistics on the self-slaughter. The figures became state secrets. The implications seem to horrify even the government.[8]

In 1958 Cuba had a higher standard of living than any Latin American country and half of Europe. I'll quote a UNESCO report from 1957: "One feature of the Cuban social structure is a large middle class. Cuban workers are more unionized (proportional to the population)than U.S. workers... the average wage for an 8 hour day in Cuba 1957 is higher than for workers in Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany. Cuban labor receives 66.6 per cent of gross national income. In the U.S. the figure is 68 per cent. 44 per cent of Cubans were covered by Social legislation, that's a higher percentage then in the U.S. at the time."

In 1958 Cubans had the 3rd highest protein consumption in the hemisphere. But in 1962 Castro's government introduced ration cards that persist to this day. While comparing a Cubans' daily rations as mandated by Castro's government to the daily rations of Cubans slaves as mandated by the Spanish King in 1842, an intrepid Cuban exile uncovered this fascinating info:[9]

Food Ration in 1842 for slaves in Cuba: Castro Gov. Ration since 1962:

meat, chicken, fish--8 oz 2 oz.

Rice-- 4 oz. 3 oz

Starches-- 16 oz. 6.5 oz

Beans 4 oz. 1 oz.


The half-starved slaves on the ship Amistad ate better than Elian Gonzalez does now. Yet Eleanor Cliff told us on in her column and again on the McLaughlin Group that: "To be a poor child in Cuba may be better than being a poor child in the U.S."

The Soviets ended up pumping some $130 billion into Cuba.[10] That's ten Marshall plans, and pumped-- not into a war-ravaged continent of 300 million-- but into an island of 7-9 million. Yet the ration cards persist to this day.


Given the rate of firing squad executions in Cuba in the early 60's, thousands of gallons of perfectly good, perfectly valuable blood gushed from the bodies of young men only to soak uselessly into the mud, wash into gutters or get sopped up by buckets of sawdust. By 1961 Cuba's government was already desperately short on foreign exchange. In two short years Castro had rendered a nation with a living standard higher than half of Europe and with a peso always on par with the U.S. dollar, utterly destitute, utterly bereft of foreign exchange. The massive Soviet subsidies could never compensate for the destruction of Cuba's vibrant pre-Castro economy.

THIS IS A DOWNFALL:

Severian, if you can not admit this is a downfall of CUBA, then you are close minded and blinding yourself to the truth. Facts are facts. Your opinion, make believe world is NOT FACT.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 08:23 PM

Is stealing extra food ations worth sending a 15 year old boy to the firing squad?

Nope , that is why Che didn't do that. It was a lie made up from an Anti-communist who later fled to the US.
What is it with people and this obsession of Che sending a 15 year old kid to the firing squad?!?! That is such a lie.

Just because Che had supervision duties over the firing squad doesn't make him a child killer. No kid was shot. Stop with the bullshit.

[Kapitalist]

Oswald, a communist sympathizer, killed Kennedy. You can blame Kennedy's death on a communist. Kennedy was also responsible for Vietnam, and if given a second term, would have had Castro assassinated. He had already sanctioned hits on Fidel Castro via the CIA. Unfortunately, Castro may have gotten to Kennedy first via Oswald. JFK had absolutely no intention of normalizing relations with Castro. Under JFK, relations with Cuba got worse & worse, almost leading to nuclear war. Castro & Che Guevara had no problem resorting to world war 3, even if it meant the destruction of Cuba. Why would Che care about cuba anyway? He was a terrorist from Argentina.

Carlos Machado was 15 years old in 1963 when the bullets shattered his bound body. His twin brother and father collapsed beside Carlos from the same volley. All had resisted Castro's theft of their humble family farm.

On Christmas eve 1961 Juana Diaz spat in the face of the Castroite executioners who were binding and gagging her. They'd found her guilty of feeding and hiding "counterrevolutionaries" When the blast from that firing squad demolished her face and torso Juana was six months pregnant.

Traditionally, firing squads have only or two of its members with loaded guns. The rest shoot blanks. Not Castro's. In his, all ten members shoot live ammo--all ten bullets rip into the staked hero or heroine. This incorporates more members into Castro's criminal organization, more members to resist desperately any overthrow of the system with the consequent settling of accounts.

[ReD_ReBeL]

"Knowing there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell of that happening, FitzGerald himself met with Cubela on October 29, 1963, claiming to be a U.S. Senator representing Attorney General Robert Kennedy. He later provided Cubela with assassination equipment. (11) Five days earlier, President Kennedy had sent a personal message to Fidel Castro, and brother Robert had approved the Attwood initiative. (12)

So at the same time that Kennedy was quietly conducting negotiations to normalize relations with Cuba which the CIA had been deliberately left out of, the CIA was continuing its own plans for Castro's death. On November 18, Attwood reported to Bundy that Lechuga would soon receive the agenda for a meeting with Attwood in Havana. (13)"

[Kapitalist]

Cuba was a nation of 6.5 million in 1959. Within three months in power, Castro and Che had shamed the Nazi prewar incarceration and murder rate. One defector claims that Che signed 500 death warrants, another says over 600. Cuban journalist Luis Ortega, who knew Che as early as 1954, writes in his book "Yo Soy El Che!" that Guevara sent 1,897 men to the firing squad. In his book "Che Guevara: A Biography," Daniel James writes that Che himself admitted to ordering "several thousand" executions during the first few years of the Castro regime.

So the scope of the mass murder is unclear. So the exact number of widows and orphans is in dispute. So the number of gagged and blindfolded men who Che sent – without trials – to be bound to a stake and blown apart by bullets runs from the hundreds to the thousands.

But the mass executioner gets a standing ovation by the same people in the U.S who oppose capitol punishment! Is there a psychiatrist in the house?!

Face the FACTS about Che Guevara, not just his FACE.

There are 2 types of Revolutions. Revolution of Revenge & Revolutions of Reform.

Castro's Revolution = Che's Revolution = Revolution of Revenge = Revolution that devours it's Children

George Washinton's Revolution = Jose Marti's Revolution = Revolution of Reform = Revolution that leads to Freedom.

[ReD_ReBeL]

you talked about facts, well here is the facts of Before and After the 1959 revolution .

Literacy:
1952- 59%
2005- 97%

Life Expectancy:
1955- 59.4 years
2006- 77 years

Infant Mortality:
1958- 60
2005- 5.8

Here's some more facts.

Woman In Parliamentary Seats:
USA- 14%
Cuba- 36%

Persons per Doctor:
USA:470
Cuba:290

Unemployed:
USA:5.8%
Cuba:1.9%

Persons Per Hostital bed:
USA:280
Cuba:200

Inflation Rate:
USA:3.00
Cuba:0.50

[Kapitalist]

The Health Care System

The health care system is often touted by many analysts as one of the Castro government's greatest achievements. What this analysis ignores is that the revolutionary government inherited an already-advanced health sector when it took power in 1959.

Cuba's infant mortality rate of 32 per 1,000 live births in 1957 was the lowest in Latin America and the 13th lowest in the world, according to UN data. Cuba ranked ahead of France, Belgium, west Germany, Israel, Japan, Austria, Italy, Spain, and Portugal, all of which would eventually pass Cuba in this indicator during the following decades.

Today, Cuba remains the most advanced country in the region in this measure, but its world ranking has fallen from 13th to 24th during the Castro era, according to UN Data. Also missing from the conventional analysis of Cuba's infant mortality rates is its staggering abortion rate -- 0.71 abortions per live birth in 1991, according to the latest UN data -- which, because of selective termination of "high-risk" pregnancies, yields lower numbers for infant mortality. Cuba's abortion rate is at least twice the rate for the other countries in the table below for which data are available.

In terms of physicians and dentists per capita, Cuba in 1957 ranked third in Latin America, behind only Uruguay and Argentina -- both of which were more advanced than the United States in this measure. Cuba's 128 physicians and dentists per 100,000 people in 1957 was the same as the Netherlands, and ahead of the United Kingdom (122 per 100,000 people) and Finland (96).

Unfortunately, the UN statistical yearbook no longer publishes these statistics, so more recent comparisons are not possible, but it is completely erroneous to characterize pre-Revolutionary Cuba as backward in terms of healthcare.


WORLD: INFANT MORTALITY
(DEATHS PER 1,000 LIVE BIRTHS)

COUNTRY
1957 / 1990-95
ICELAND
16 / 5
SWEDEN
18 / 5
FINLAND
28 / 5
SWITZERLAND
23 / 6
BELGIUM
36 / 6
GERMANY (A)
36 / 6
NETHERLANDS
18 / 7
AUSTRALIA
21 / 7
DENMARK
23 / 7
UNITED KINGDOM
24 / 7
CANADA
31 / 7
IRELAND
33 / 7
FRANCE
34 / 7
LUXEMBOURG
39 / 7
AUSTRIA
44 / 7
SPAIN
53 / 7
NORWAY
21 / 8
ITALY
50 / 8
UNITED STATES
26 / 9
ISRAEL
39 / 9
GREECE
44 / 10
PORTUGAL
88 / 10
CUBA
32 / 12
MALAYSIA
76 / 13

SOURCE: UNITED NATIONS.

Of course, not everyone in Cuba receives substandard health care. In fact, senior Cuban Communist Party officials and those who can pay in hard currency can get first-rate medical services any time they want.

Another means of earning foreign exchange at the expense of providing health care to ordinary Cubans is the government's policy to export its doctors to other countries. South Africa alone has nearly 300 Cuban doctors. Cuba, in the early 1990s, reportedly planned to have 10,000 physicians abroad by the turn of the century.

A group of Cuban doctors recently arrived in the United States said they were "mystified" by claims in a recent report of the American Association for World Health (AAWH) that the United States embargo is to be blamed for the public health situation in the country.

According to these doctors, "we . . . can categorically and authoritatively state that our people's poor health care situation results from a dysfunctional and inhumane economic and political system, exacerbated by the regime to divert scarce resources to meet the needs of the regime's elite and foreign patients who bring hard currency."

Referring to the growing disparity between health care provided to ordinary Cubans and that offered to tourists and high ranking Communist party members, the exiled Cuban doctors noted that they "wish that any one of us could provide tours to foreign visitors of the hospitals Cira Garcia, Frank Pais, CIMEQ, and Hermanos Ameijeiras, in order to point out the medicines and equipment, even the bedsheets and blankets, reserved for regime elites or dollar-bearing foreigners, to the detriment of our people, who must bring their own bedsheets, to say nothing of the availability of medicines."

The US embargo does NOT deny medicines and medical supplies to the Cuban people. As stipulated in Section 1705 of the Cuban Democracy Act of 1992, the U.S. Government routinely issues licenses for the sale of medicine and medical supplies to Cuba. The only requirement for obtaining a license is to arrange for end-use monitoring to ensure that there is no reasonable likelihood that these items could be diverted to the Cuban military, used in acts of torture or other human rights abuses, or re-exported or used in the production of biotechnological products. Monitoring of sales can be performed by independent non-governmental organizations, international organizations, or foreign diplomats.

Moreover, the U.S. embargo on Cuba affects only U.S. companies and their subsidiaries. Other nations and companies are free to trade with Cuba. Should Cuba choose not to purchase from the U.S., it can purchase any medicine or medical equipment it needs from other countries. Such third-country transactions only cost an estimated 2%-3% more than purchases from the U.S. as a result of higher shipping costs.

Every single time the island of Cuba and fidel castro's revolution are covered anywhere in the media one of the points always mentioned is Cuba's free healthcare. You can practically time it. If it's in print, you get the lead issue in the first and second paragraph, a mention of fidel castro or one of his cronies in the third paragraph and then the plug for the lauded free healthcare available to Cubans in the fourth. I dont think Ive ever read an article about castro or Cuba where the "healthcare" isnt mentioned.

Every single castro supporter clings to this healthcare thing like it is some kind of holy grail. In a debate, the fact that Cuba has the most political prisoners in the world is ignored. The fact that Cubans on the island lack even the most basic of necessities is ignored. Tourism apartheid is ignored. Everything is ignored save for the free healthcare and 100% literacy.

Of course, none of these Free healthcare! cheerleaders have ever been to a Cuban hospital. They've never been to a Cuban clinic. Hospitals and clinics serving the average Cuban, that is.

[Kapitalist]

Cuba's infant mortality rate of 32 per 1,000 live births in 1957 was the lowest in Latin America and the 13th lowest in the world, according to UN data.

Cuba ranked ahead of France, Belgium, west Germany, Israel, Japan, Austria, Italy, Spain, and Portugal, all of which would eventually pass Cuba in this indicator during the following decades.

Presently Cuba has one of the largest abortion rates in the entire world . (Hey I know how much you liberals love abortion - I guess this is a good thing in your opinion)

The province of Habana has 21% of the population and people from other provinces of Cuba are not allowed to cross into Havana.

In 1959 there were 11 prisons. Today there are more than 300.

Let's get back to subject of free media:

In the 1950's Cuba had 58 daily newspapers. Presently only one exists.

In the 1950's -Cuba ranked eighth in the world in number of private radio stations. Presently privatly owned radio stations are forbidden.

During the 1950's, the Cuban people were among the most informed in the world, living in an uncharacteristically large media market for such a small country.

Today Castro blocks a red ticker tape with a wall of 138 Black Flags.

Free Media = Communist Regime Downfall (This is what happen in the Soviet Union)

Cuba's Free Education = Castro Thought Control = Brainwashing of Young Minds

[KC]

Cuba's infant mortality rate of 32 per 1,000 live births in 1957 was the lowest in Latin America and the 13th lowest in the world, according to UN data.

Cuba ranked ahead of France, Belgium, west Germany, Israel, Japan, Austria, Italy, Spain, and Portugal, all of which would eventually pass Cuba in this indicator during the following decades.

Cuba's infant mortality rate as of 2005 was 6.33 deaths/1,000 live births (Source (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html)). They are 40th in the world out of 226 evaluated countries. They surpass the United States, which is at 6.50 deaths/1,000 live births.



Presently Cuba has one of the largest abortion rates in the entire world . (Hey I know how much you liberals love abortion - I guess this is a good thing in your opinion)

It's certainly good that women are free to do what they want with their body. Of course, the abortion issue is for a different thread.



The province of Habana has 21% of the population and people from other provinces of Cuba are not allowed to cross into Havana.

In 1959 there were 11 prisons. Today there are more than 300.


Sources?



Cuba's Free Education = Castro Thought Control = Brainwashing of Young Minds

:lol: Sure is mind control. You know, because Cubans don't have access to outside news sources. :lol:

[ColinH]

Do yourself a favour and actually look up the definition of communism first before you start rambling on about North Korea, China, and how left-wing CNN is.

(I was really tempted to not be civil about that, because this is some outrageous shit.)

[redstar2000]

I think "Kapitalist" is probably a young gusano from Miami and his "information" comes from his exiled parents or other relatives.

Who probably did have it pretty "sweet" under Batista. :(

The tone of outrage that permeates his posts suggests strongly that he and his family suffer from "status deprivation"...they used to be "somebodies" and now they're really nobodies.

For which they blame Fidel, Che, and "communism". :lol:

The fact that he considers Ted Turner or Dan Rather to be "left-wingers" invites the conclusion that he is simply an ignoramus...and knows American politics no better than he probably knows Cuban politics after 1958.

It's very difficult to constructively discuss anything with someone who actually lives in an imaginary past.

One can only offer the helpful suggestion that since he now really lives in "capitalist freedom", perhaps he should stop hanging out on the internet and get out there and make some money.

McDonald's and Wal-Mart are always hiring. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Tungsten]

Severian

In fact, those are all capitalist media, owned by big business, and financed by big-business advertisers. They have certain disagreements, within a framework of support for capitalism.
With the exception of FOX, pretty much all media outlets have a left-wing bias (in varying degrees). Although when they believe that their personal interests are threatened in some way, they will change lanes. e.g. the BBC was a propaganda machine for the Labour party- until the war on Iraq began.

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 01:34 PM
Severian

In fact, those are all capitalist media, owned by big business, and financed by big-business advertisers. They have certain disagreements, within a framework of support for capitalism.
With the exception of FOX, pretty much all media outlets have a left-wing bias (in varying degrees). Although when they believe that their personal interests are threatened in some way, they will change lanes. e.g. the BBC was a propaganda machine for the Labour party- until the war on Iraq began.
That's right wing bullshit and you know it. I've spent months researching biases in the media, and -- surprise -- it is collectively slightly off center to the right. Have you seen the cheerleading a lot of reporters do for the bush administration? It's ridiculous. I'm talking CNN, MSNBC, NYT, ABC, all of it. Don't say stupid things. I digress.

Kapitalist, you deserve no attention, as you're forming your whole (ludicrous, although that's beside the point) anti-communist argument on a country that is not communist. How would you like it if I argued against a dictatorship, using the United States for an example? Oh wait...

[Saint-Just]

A media controlled by a government is much better than a media controlled by capitalists. A government can be interested in the well-being of the populace. On the other hand, capitalists are interested in profit. As a result the capitalist media broadcasts and disseminates many ideas and cultural values that are harmful to society because their sole interest is profit. The government, on the other hand, is more interested in cultural regulation.

[Andy Bowden]

How is it within the BBC's interests to be particularly anti-war exactly? :unsure:

[Tungsten]

Tormented by Treachery

That's right wing bullshit and you know it.
It's right and you know it.

I've spent months researching biases in the media, and -- surprise -- it is collectively slightly off center to the right.
:lol: Oh right. Where's this evidence of yours then? Is this the same research that told you that communism was a good idea? What a pantload.

Have you seen the cheerleading a lot of reporters do for the bush administration?
No, I didn't. They were too busy cheerleading for Kerry. Only Fox seemed to be cheerleading for Bush.
Saint-Just

A media controlled by a government is much better than a media controlled by capitalists. A government can be interested in the well-being of the populace.
"Can be"?

On the other hand, capitalists are interested in profit.
Whose to say that isn't in the interest of the populace, or that governments aren't interested in profit?

As a result the capitalist media broadcasts and disseminates many ideas and cultural values that are harmful to society because their sole interest is profit.
Like what?

The government, on the other hand, is more interested in cultural regulation.
Whose to say "cultural regulation" isn't harmful? The number of examples where such "regulation" has existed and has proven harmful (i.e. propaganda) are to numerous to list.
Andy Bowden

How is it within the BBC's interests to be particularly anti-war exactly? :unsure:
Because the war isn't considered to be popular.

[Guerrilla22]

So blasting propaganda equals freedom of speech, I guess that means that the likes of Fox news, CNN, MSNBC and all the other corporate controlled media outlets in the US are the beacons of free specch.

[Dyst]

A media controlled by a government is much better than a media controlled by capitalists. A government can be interested in the well-being of the populace.

"Can be"?

Yes, the government can be interested in the well-being of the populace, and a capitalist system is not interested in such issues. They care about profit.

[Tungsten]

Yes, the government can be interested in the well-being of the populace, and a capitalist system is not interested in such issues.
It can be.

[fightthemachine]

no government works. commie, democratic, faschist, etc. only anarchy, baby. although we shouldn't idolize che, he had a good heart. thats y we wear che t shirts n shit. the man didnt let money fuck him up. he stayed true. but not all commies are like that. e.g. castro. he :wub: money. he has health care money in the mils if not billions. he has so much power. i was in cuba in the summer. is it a nice place? yes. nice ppl? yes. they also hang out w/ each other and talk 2 each other instead of playing game boy like we do in capitalist countries. so theyre nicer and more social ppl. but r they happy? no. y? they're not free.

thank you.
goodbye.

[hamperleft]

Cuba is may not be completly comunist, but has a higher standard of liveing than Puerto Rico, who we do not have a trade embargo with, and poor millions of dollars into every year.